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Author Topic: ## Road Trip ## GALAXIAN THEATER from NAMCO !!!  (Read 616850 times)
Etienne MacGyver
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« Reply #465 on: March 19, 2013, 03:45:51 PM »

If I were to die, ... not that I plan to any time soon, I would like to die being electrified by a Galaxian3.

you are nuts
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uncletom
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« Reply #466 on: March 19, 2013, 07:38:33 PM »

.. and crackers.
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ataritoobin
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« Reply #467 on: March 19, 2013, 07:55:02 PM »

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Jason42
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« Reply #468 on: March 20, 2013, 12:51:01 AM »

Episode 2 : "A Real Live One", now available in video arrow



 Cool

You just unlocked a live acheivement, great job! Smiley
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Alpha1
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« Reply #469 on: March 21, 2013, 12:07:17 AM »

May I just say.


HOLY FUCKING CRAP DUDE!!

That is all, thank you.
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uncletom
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« Reply #470 on: March 21, 2013, 08:04:41 AM »

First of all, it's not holy because it hasn't been blessed by the pope or any primitive deity. Nor is it fucking, or crap either. If anything it is one of namco's more awesome pieces, and probably one of the few real wonders from a time back when environment and polution weren't such a big deal.

While we're on the subject. I'd like to recommend Bruno to swap all those 120x120 mm fans for some less power consuming type with fewer rpm. This would reduce the ambient noise, mostly generated by the fans. And with the risk of nagging, also swap the projectors for a pair of silent DLP types, perhaps from BenQ. Something to think about, surely?
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Etienne MacGyver
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« Reply #471 on: March 21, 2013, 09:52:39 AM »

Ofcourse not, we want original old crappy hardware  Grin
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Jason42
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« Reply #472 on: March 21, 2013, 10:26:00 AM »

Ofcourse not, we want original old crappy hardware  Grin
i'll confirm, the DLP projectors doesn't have the same image than CRT one, it's like playing on a old arcade with a TFT monitor :p
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uncletom
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« Reply #473 on: March 21, 2013, 11:21:23 AM »

If you are refering to the resized/scaled picture then yes, CRT is generally the obvious choice for low-res games. But in this case the throw distance of the projector makes it more favourable to use a DLP, or today even LCD projectors. The image will be brighter and clearer than with any old time SONY, or other projector brands. Today's LCDs are really quite responsive, keeping the overall image very clear during quick movements.

The SONY projectors used in G3 should not be considered as "original part" even though they are originally included with the game. They ought to be considered as a "display device", such as any monitor in whatever cabinet. And even though SONY manufactured some of the best available projectors at the time, these projectors aren't even close to modern projectors of today. To say it is original is vane and wrong. You will sooner or later need to replace them, as well as the PSUs, unless you plan to make a cap-swap in each and every unit.

Further, projector technology is, and always will be, inferior versus a CRT or any other direct display in many ways except size. Even if the projector is of CRT type (three CRT guns), you will still need to project the picture onto some surface, in the case of G3 the whiteboard. And as with any white surface its reflection never reflects the black/nothingness. You will always have a grey 'black' even though you have total ambient darkness. So, why not use a modern projector to increase the total lumen and thus the contrast instead? The game will be much more enjoyable that way.
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Level42
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« Reply #474 on: March 21, 2013, 11:35:48 AM »

First of all, it's not holy because it hasn't been blessed by the pope or any primitive deity. Nor is it fucking, or crap either. If anything it is one of namco's more awesome pieces, and probably one of the few real wonders from a time back when environment and polution weren't such a big deal.

In your line of thinking it cannot be called a wonder because a wonder is created by a higher entitity and this game was developped by mere human beings. It's a nice game yes, it's a special game too yes but not a wonder.
What this has to do with the environment or polution is beyond me by the way....and in fact in the 90s both were already hot issues over here in Europe, not sure about other continents, some willl never give a shit about it....

Quote
While we're on the subject. I'd like to recommend Bruno to swap all those 120x120 mm fans for some less power consuming type with fewer rpm. This would reduce the ambient noise, mostly generated by the fans.
Yes but this will also reduce the amount of airflow and thus will create extra heat which is pretty much not what you want if you want the game to keep running. If you can hear the fans, the problem is simply that the game sound is not turned up loud enough ! Cheesy

Of course, fans can have reached their end of life and thus become extra noisy, maybe there are even more efficient fans now, but the amount of airflow should at least stay the same.


« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 11:54:52 AM by Level42 » Logged

Nic-fryer
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« Reply #475 on: March 21, 2013, 11:40:54 AM »

First of all, it's not holy because it hasn't been blessed by the pope or any primitive deity.

I'm sure Bruno could arrange for the local bishop to come and bless the theatre and the V3, could be interesting...
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Dazza
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« Reply #476 on: March 21, 2013, 11:46:06 AM »

In your line of thinking it cannot be called a wonder because a wonder is created by a higher entitity and this game was developped by mere human beings. It's a nice game yes, it's a special game too yes but not a wonder.

This is all completely OT but where did you get the idea a wonder can only be created by a higher entity? Who do you think created the seven wonders of the ancient world?

According to http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wonder:

The 1st definition is: "One that arouses awe, astonishment, surprise, or admiration; a marvel"

The Galaxian 3 theater scores on all counts!
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uncletom
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« Reply #477 on: March 21, 2013, 11:48:45 AM »

A good point with the fans there, Level. But remember that in almost all cases arcade enclosures have been aired more than necessary, (with the exception of perhaps SEGA's Astro City cabinets which I coinsidently call "monitor killers"). The result is louder ambient noise and dust accumulation, which I think Bruno could do without if he only lowers the rpm of the fans.

I mean, he could perhaps put a reostat/dimmer (?) somewhere on the fan's power line. Then he could check the temp after 20 minutes, 60 mins, .. and adjust the airflow to optimal. I will bet that the airflow is way too high as it is from factory.

About the "wonder", well, at least *I* wonder how they did it. Don't you?

(I think you mean "miracle", which is beyond human understanding and perhaps even nature's)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 11:52:28 AM by uncletom » Logged
Level42
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« Reply #478 on: March 21, 2013, 11:51:42 AM »

The SONY projectors used in G3 should not be considered as "original part" even though they are originally included with the game. They ought to be considered as a "display device", such as any monitor in whatever cabinet.
Interesting point of view. So what you are saying that the 25" Amplifone color vector monitor in my Star Wars cockpit is not an original part of the game ? After all, it's "just" a display device....

Sorry but this is total nonsense....the CRT projectors are a part of the original game. Wether or not it is a good idea to replace them with DLP/LCD I'm not sure. I've played a full-size Daytona USA 2 which had retro-fitted DLP/LCD projectors and it sure looked great to me.

However, if it means that there will be artifacting or even size changes IMHO it would be best to stick with the original projectors. There is one more thing to consider: analogue projectors have no lag at all. Go digital and you'll introduce a slight delay whichever way you do it, and this can hurt gameplay with a game like this.

And even though SONY manufactured some of the best available projectors at the time, these projectors aren't even close to modern projectors of today. To say it is original is vane and wrong.
Now you are really starting to loose it buddy.....

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You will sooner or later need to replace them, as well as the PSUs, unless you plan to make a cap-swap in each and every unit.
I would trust the Namco PSU's in there now with the caps of that era a lot more than crappy china built PSU from today....

Further, projector technology is, and always will be, inferior versus a CRT or any other direct display in many ways except size. Even if the projector is of CRT type (three CRT guns), you will still need to project the picture onto some surface, in the case of G3 the whiteboard. And as with any white surface its reflection never reflects the black/nothingness. You will always have a grey 'black' even though you have total ambient darkness. So, why not use a modern projector to increase the total lumen and thus the contrast instead? The game will be much more enjoyable that way.
Why not ? Well if there are arguments it must be speed of picture, sizes, artifacting and yes, originality.
Yet yes, you have a point that some parts would improve, but what do you want ? Do you want the best picture or do you want the experience the game as it was BITD ? Do you want the burn-in on the screen or not ?

For me replacing a projector is not as senstive as replacing a CRT monitor with an LCD. However I can still see reasons to try to get the best out of the old set-up and also reasons to try new projectors.

We can discuss what we want about it but t's up to Bruno though  Grin Grin
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uncletom
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« Reply #479 on: March 21, 2013, 12:15:08 PM »

Hehe.. damn you, Level! Don't be so religious. Ok, let's take Star Wars '83 as en example. The Amplifone xy-monitor is a display device for vector games, meaning that several other vector games could be displayed on this monitor. However, since the Star War's hardware is dependant on that particular monitor (there aren't many monitors this game can use), I would call it original for the game.

In the case of Galaxian 3, you could, if you wanted, crunch the whole thing into a 2x CRT monitor cabinet, like the cabinet for Darius by Taito, the sound can be mixed into two channels, and the game could be played with analog joysticks in a much smaller environment. What makes G3 such a large enterprise is its cinema theme with projectors and multi-channel audio. However, nothing of that is original for the game. You can use any projector, any audio-system, that you please for the G3.

As for any lag in projectors, well, consider the game's property then. It is 60Hz, in 60 fps. The lag you mention will never be relevant within these frequencies.

I'm curious about the artifacting you mention. Please, explain more?

Picture size: Ok, this could be a problem. So before selecting a projector (have you ever been shopping for a projector?) you need to consider the picture size VS throw distance. This is always thoroughly described in the specifications in every handbook.

Have you ever compared an older CRT projector with a DLP, or LCD from 2010+?
To restore a CRT projector to better shape, it is required that you replace certain capacitors that have been close to hot spots, as well as all three R, G, B electron guns. This is not exactly cheap.

"I would trust the Namco PSU's in there now with the caps of that era a lot more than crappy china built PSU from today."

-  good point. 1999-2007 was the "bad-caps" era. But remember that every capacitor, chinese or japanese, has got its estimated life time. After that it's a gamble to leave it in the equipment. It could damage your game.

Btw, Level, have you made a cap-swap in your Star Wars yet?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 12:20:52 PM by uncletom » Logged
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