Space Ace - Cinematronics version in U.K.

[leeram]

Hi Everyone,

I'm selling my working Space Ace arcade game, it's the USA Cinematronics version but is in my house in the U.K.

The system is fully working but needs some attention. In short

- New side art needs to be applied
- The bottom corners need filling and shaping because they've been damaged, I guess through years of being scraped on the floor.
- T-Moulding needs replacing
- Laser Disc Drawer needs making more stable
- Needs a new coin mech door
- possibly the black "melomime" covering needs replacing in parts, depending on how minty fresh you want it to look

I already have the side art (officially licensed reproducton) plus a new old stock control panel and marquee worth £150, both signed by Don Bluth and Gary Goldman  - the game's creators, which I am including in the sale.

The monitor is non original and uses an AV converter to convert from the laserdisc to it.
The laserdisc is a replacement Sony and uses a conversion card. Many people use these players because they are more reliable than the original. I have the original laserdisc (LV1000) but it is dead (probably a capacitor issue)

The laserdisc is very good but does produce the odd teeny tiny number of artifacts on the screen. Just a few "pixels" worth on occasion.

I was going to ask for £850 plus delivery (if you can't collect) once I'd done the work myself. So I will let it go for £750 plus delivery to cover a bit for the work that needs to be done.

Let me know if you are interested and I will send pictures over.

Cheers

Lee

[Maverick]

Basically a cab to be restored 80% from the bottom to the top..



the corners below on the Us machine are really tricky and difficult to restore (a hit and they fly away)


the only way to restore the sides with that damages like that is to change completely the sides with MDF sides (like scr33n does with his cabs) but this costs other 500 euros


+ strip down the whole cab and replace them!


Original items remains only the marquee, cpo, disc, board and power supply

(no original monitor, no original ld player, no original Ntsc RGB converter, No original coin door, no original side arts)

Lot of work to do and lot of time to spend over it (around 70 hrs including replacing the sides that it is very time consuming and must be done from someone extremely expert otherwise the cab falls apart soon as you move it around)


The ld player 1000 - that is a real industrial massive item - one of the heaviest and great player ever seen is quite impossible to destroy


if it is over (since I have 2 working) it is not a capacitator but the laser tube gone and this means only a trash item sadly


no cinematronics rised logo coin door..

no original monitor..

"pixel" problem = disc rotted = the imagines will be worse day by day soon as time passes - some infos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

from wikipedia:

"Laser rot was a disc rot phenomenon observed by some users of the Laserdisc format in which audio and/or video quality begins to degrade over time"


 
 

Mav

[level42]

I don't know where you buy MDF, but for 500 Euro's I can get enough MDF for 10 cabs.
MDF is popular because it's so cheap.

[Maverick]

I don't know where you buy MDF is popular because it's so cheap.

Sure, but as newbie to this particular cab you have not calculated that the main problem are the curves especially on the bottom


how cut them exactly, you?



have you ever seen them?



have you ever had a cinematronic DL cab in your hands?



Do you know what are we talking about?


Think not,


it is even different from the Atari (very easy to work)


MdF in cheap

but in this case must be cutted with a Cnc machines that is very expensive for the software

to replicate the precise degress curves on the bottom, on the cpo level and on the marquee level (where it is very visible any minimal error)

90 (almost) on the bottom
 
125 degree (almost) at the cpo level

and around 110 on the double side at the level of the marquee


to make sides precise with 2 identical curves in the same position,


As done here for example,

See:


http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2684916510104363451VAgdPF

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2777466940104363451POjOKG


Do it manually or with a normal saw is pratically Impossible,

No pro wood cutter shop here in Italy said was available to do it (even with cash in my hand)



All said to go for the cnc, because the only way to have 2 identical sides is the Cnc



See here:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2334846020104363451XxYpmg


http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2383268680104363451huoaKW


http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2906609200104363451WcUOTl


So that's why it is so expensive




otherwise you will see one side longer than the other or one curve shorter than the other


one error and it will be more than visible to public eyes (especially on the marquee and cpo level)


See here compared even with a US DL Cab:

Side 1
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2418369000104363451xaMYXU

Side 2
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2815861770104363451HzxUPg


The reason why cinematronic made so strange cabs was not for style as many though, but to avoid any copy of their licensed games,
 

I studied long their cabs for years and they are done with great precision not only outside but especially inside (no spikes, no empty spaces, no 1 piece same to an another, everything match at 1cm)

Pro for real

behind there was a great job of technicians


When I had to restore the broken parts (after that the cab was totally stripped down) the first time I had to hire a wood worker to be sure everything was replaced in the right way,

In that case he told me that it was realized like a maze! (his words)  



very difficult to replicate by hand or with minimal wood & work (good to restore many cabs)


See also space ace dedicated and tell me


http://images.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2166/2361392572_322090c697.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/24990899%40N05/2361392572&usg=__PCzRAm9TpoECa4bv6Nn6QjN0QI4=&h=500&w=327&sz=103&hl=it&start=36&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=GuEOFPyKr_pGlM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspace%2Bace%2Bdedicated%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Dit%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1





As said cinematronics' curves once broken are the most tricky and delicate part of the cab to restore


With wood filler no hope at all, one little hit and they fly away because not protected by the coin door wood border (behind 5 cm)


If you have not seen, see here:


http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2725156010104363451nrZeJU

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2282657800104363451KaEqac



and replaced - Final Stage:

up

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2381279350104363451QZiVHU


and down


http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2158904970104363451tincbT

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2593541480104363451stnLnd



That's the reason why most of the people who bought a Usa DL broken or to restore, prefer to sell it

It is a too tricky and extremely expensive restoration (not to talk about the price of the side art, marquee and cpo - between the highest prices around - just cliffy or tron surpass them)


Ataris are totally different on this side, better and easier and more solid after all

I've got them , and compared:

Atari is more tough.



and that's why most of the people look for them even to restore..



More info here:

https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=676.0



Maverick



Ps= the only brave who could fight with a cab like that (with mdf ready and made (with correct measures) is scr33n in my opinion

see here:

https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=885.0

Go massimo, Go!


Mav

[leeram]

Basically a cab to be restored 80% from the bottom to the top..

leeram - Not really. maybe 20%



the corners below on the Us machine are really tricky and difficult to restore (a hit and they fly away)


the only way to restore the sides with that damages like that is to change completely the sides with MDF sides (like scr33n does with his cabs) but this costs other 500 euros

Leeram - It's not that bad, I don't believe it needs all the sides replacing.


+ strip down the whole cab and replace them!


Original items remains only the marquee, cpo, disc, board and power supply.

Leeram - And the cabinet

no original monitor, no original ld player, no original Ntsc RGB converter, No original coin door, no original side arts)

Leeram - Correct, yes I still have it -it just needs fixing, it has the original coin door, it has the original sede arts but they are ripped so not much use.


Lot of work to do and lot of time to spend over it (around 70 hrs including replacing the sides that it is very time consuming and must be done from someone extremely expert otherwise the cab falls apart soon as you move it around)

Leeram - Well, I'm going to do it, and I'm no expert, so I disagree with you there. And it won't take 70 hours, not by a long shot.

The ld player 1000 - that is a real industrial massive item - one of the heaviest and great player ever seen is quite impossible to destroy

Leeram - yes it is -correct

if it is over (since I have 2 working) it is not a capacitator but the laser tube gone and this means only a trash item sadly

Leeram - I doubt that very much, being as I blew the unit myself by putting 240 voltz into it by accident. I'm pretty sure it's capacitors or other items on the PSU inside. Hopefully if the planets align, I'll know more on Sunday after a visit to Finny's


no cinematronics rised logo coin door..

no original monitor..

"pixel" problem = disc rotted = the imagines will be worse day by day soon as time passes - some infos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

from wikipedia:

"Laser rot was a disc rot phenomenon observed by some users of the Laserdisc format in which audio and/or video quality begins to degrade over time"


But I've had it 4 years and it has never changed, so your day-by-day assessment is wrong.

 
 

Mav

See my responses within the quote above, all prepended with Leeram.

Like I said, it needs some attention but all things I can sort myself so not that much to be honest. If people are interested in doing the work themselves then it's a good opportunity. You're obviously not interested, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

We'll know shortly - If I manage to get it all sorted then you can eat humble pie, if not then I will :-)

Also I am open to offers...

Cheers

Lee

[level42]

Thanks for the elaborate explanation Mav. I was thinking you just meant that MDF was expensive. We can never take into account the work hours it takes to restore a cab. It's the same with getting the electronics fixed. If I would calculate the hours spend on fixing and improving the Amplifone monitor on my SW cockpit or f.i. repairing the Centipede PCB than you quickly reach amounts like you mention. But indeed, most people (like me) don't have access to a CNC machine.

I know nothing about DL/SA cabs (nor do I want to) and I'm an amateur at woodworking, but isn't it possible to simply make a (part of) a side panel using a router ? A router follows all the curves and creates a perfect copy. Of course you need a good original for that. But if f.i. a corner on one side is good, you can "copy" it for the other side this way. At least, I have seen people do that.

People have been cutting off sides near the bottom and replacing only that part with MDF. I sure can't do that but some clever wood-workers seem to be able to do it. Of course it will require new laminate or painting of the entire side.

Not trying to argue with you, just some thoughts.

[Maverick]

No problem 42,

I've understood this time in the way you've written it was not intentional,


That's why I explained the whole thing technically,


the sad thing about your question is no


I wasted about 300 euros last year in this way and trying to convince wood workers to do in that way, (less expensive and not long waitings)

but all refused for the problems mentioned



Last but not least if you get in touch with a good or perfect Us cab here

nobody will evere strip it down to make you replicate 100% (probably only me for perfectionism)

that's the main problem to restore one cinematronics




Mav


For leearm:

nothing personal,  it was just to poin the situation of the work to do (according what you wrote to us about the conditions)

at the people who may be interested but not conscious of what will wait them

[Maverick]

But indeed, most people (like me) don't have access to a CNC machine.

That's why we have to solve the problem

To have this cabs perfect at home

I've got to work it out (hope during xmas to have some time to plan something)


Mav

[leeram]

I'm sure if anyone is interested they will pm me and I would make sure they know exactly what's involved, with pics and video too. I disagree with your assessment of the work and I'll be doing it myself anyway so there's absolutely no way anyone can go into this not understanding the requirement on them.

My biggest problem is getting the unit out of it's current position in my room!

Cheers

Lee

[Maverick]

I'm sure if anyone is interested they will pm me and I would make sure they know exactly what's involved,

This is important to avoid any problem or misundestanding with the community

Mav

Ps=asked photos of the cab to be even more precise as requested

[MacDLSA]

Well ... it's not for personal "glory" ... but I am PROUD to own a self-builded Cinematronics-like Dragon's Lair cab .
If I knew I would not be able to make it then I sure didn't do it !
But that's it !
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5291266544034559106

I know it lacks of an original CoinDoor ( hehe ... but recently a good friend named Jeff Kinder sent me a couple of Cinematronics silver stickers , and one of them is already attached just in the middle of the coindoor ) , "regular" marquee rails and a plastic monitor bezel , but when I began to build all I decided to realize "by-myself" these particulars, too.
SO IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME !
My cab is beautiful and this is also the judgement of the BEST LaserGames expert / engineer / technician we could have here in Italy ...

I am NOT a collector ( except for my wonderful Atari VCS collection !!! ) , so I threw a PC running Daphne inside the cab ...
Simply and certainly more

Woodpanels ? Well ... "light"MediumDensity ( it costs almost twice the "normal" MDF ) could be simply cut in ANY way one want .
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815267836783874
Price : 100€ for the 2 LMDF shoulders + 40€ for other panels ( black plated wood )

Control Panel ? I took a piece of zinc metal and bring it to a factory ( near the one where I work since , ARGH !!! , 18 years ! ) where there are lots of specific machinery which could do almost everything with metals ...
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815250656914658
pèrice : 30€ for the metal piece and the bend work .

Of course I was not able to reproduce the scoreboard plexi and the original audio speaker , so i bought them from a U.S. spare parts collector ( and also speaker's grills ) ... and that's almost the same for the scoreboard , wich is now connected via parallel port to the PC which is inside the cab.
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815263541816562.
Price : 150€ for all

Controls ? Wico red-ball ( repro ) stick , buttons and T-molding came NEW from the U.S.
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815216297176226
Price : 60€

USB interface for controls : a very nice J-Pac Value Edition that came from U.K.
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815203412274322
Price : 40€

CoinDoor : I took it from an old BLEW UP (!!!) Jamma cab
Price : 10€

The PC is my old one that I store up just for this purpose 
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815229182078130
Price : ?

ALL THE REST is self-made or reproducted !!!

Artworks ?
I took some good Hi-Res scans from the web , developed and printed by a friend with his huge color plotter .
The paper used for the CP is rough to the touch , the marquee one is smooth and matte while sidearts are smooth and shiny ... just like the "original" repros already available from the U.S.
Price = 60€ for all
http://picasaweb.google.com/macdlsa/MacDLSAGameRoom#5139815194822339714

Maybe I missed something ...
AH , I forget the MAIN part af this project :
a detailed PDF wit ALL the measurements , from the smallest detail to the biggest .
It was developed by a good italian friend who dismantled his DL to restore it all !
YES .. without this project I couln't be able to reach my goal !

Thats' all ... and I wanted to say : if I could do it , then several other people could !

[Maverick]

Mac (or Marco - we' ve got the same name..)

I agree when you said:


"Maybe I missed something ...a detailed PDF wit ALL the measurements , from the smallest detail to the biggest "

"YES .. without this project I couln't be able to reach my goal !"


True, and you have to think about the one who's willing to restore the original cab doesn't have this PDF that you have and you should share with all
 

and shown a good skill like Scr33n  that few collectors and fans have (my congrats but please buy original maruqee and side art, it helps Don Bluth to finance new projects on the way)



Sure, on this site some of us (me including) are down with these things (restoring, build from scartch, arcade collections) from years and are able to work around all this things with experience and knowledge


But we don't have to make the mistake to think about that ALL the people are at our level


It is not the truth

This Because many people are genuine pure appasionate fans of games

but coming from other sectors like Retrogaming front

where they thinking to achive a original DL cab like they can buy a mint Jap Super famicom from Ebay

It is not the same thing

And we know that


We can not hide this thing even if the passion comes from the same path


And being aware of that we have the duty to advise them


Otherwise they would have the same problems we had in the beginning with organization or after some month they would give it up


I sadly discovered this thing when I made the Cnc review some month ago

Here the link:



Many DL fans (italians especially coming from other Forums) asked me to have a exact replica of the original cab

Thinking genuinly to be able to build it or assemble it with my support


But even if I did my best to support them I had to admit that many fans are not even at a basic level here nor having with the basic working tools or the organization to collect the cab at a 30 Km distance!


That's the point


I know what I say can seems incredible between us (that frequently hire vans, organize shippings, load with our hands the cabs and spend lot of money of this passion)

But newbies or simply retrogame fans (that are the ones who now want this games for their console collections) are not up the situation


Not to talk about restoring that is a REAL different and TRICKY thing as shown before on a cinematronic..


It is right to incourage people to follow our path,

I'm down with that 


but sincerly we're more experienced and faced even "particular" situation (the first collection, the first lift with a 100 kg cab on the ladders )


And this can not be hided


We've got to face the true if we want to keep this passional real


Build a cab requires time and skill and can not compared as put a plug of a Jap Megadrive in the socket!

It is a total different thing.
 


For people like you it would be easier to make a restoration (even if you made a cab on your own that is different - even because as you said you dont' care to match original specs)


and as you said:"I am NOT a collector "

and

"I know it lacks of an original CoinDoor, regular" marquee rails and a plastic monitor bezel, So it doesn't matter to me"


Correct and this is the point,


maybe you don't know but many people who buy the original - without your driven experience or attitude - want and pretend a mint original 100%


Well, believe it or not most of these people who has this will are not even able to come and pick them up! ()

Not to mention to bring a game at a 2nd floor (in Italy most of the people in the cities lives in building than single homes as in Uk for ex.)


The main problem as said is the skill, the driven experience and the right measures (not percet as you said, but it was Ok for you)

Most don't want something like the 100%, they just want something perfect like buying a Retrogame console in Mint condition

That's the main problem of newbies to Arcade collection

They think the can pretend a mint contion game like buying a Super famicom

And as you know it is not the same



and this must be pointed to avoid discussion o problems for everybody (for leearm especially who would find himself to battle with newbies)

Hope this helps


Mav

[MacDLSA]

Yeah , you're right , Marco !

In fact that is the reason why I already sold 1 self-builded-from-zero Mame cab and did some other "adjusting" woodwork ...  ( and I'm still restoring another cab to sell  )
I noticed people want it ALL with nothing more to do ( I use to say : "PC config is ALL your ... I test all the cab'electronics and controls, then I'll remove my "test-HDD" and install a NEW one ... You've to do it by yourself !" ) .
Collecting cabs or simply having only one while in a flat at the 2nd or 3rd ( 4th , 5th ... etc... ) floor is not properly a good thing ...
It must be a rich man that could have hundreds of square meters available or simply a single man with at least a  2-bedroom-apartment  .
Since years I only had business with single-house-people , and the heaviest work for me is take / pick up  a cab in their underground tavern  .

[Maverick]

Yeah , you're right , Marco !

Since years I only had business with single-house-people , and the heaviest work for me is take / pick up  a cab in their underground tavern   .

Exact,

that's what I was talking about,

Anyway congrats for the work done, the support given and the work you 've done

(.. even if not like mine! that I'm instead in the restoration original at all cost 100%  )

Anyway hope to see you soon at some arcade fairs at my booth

..or one day in Japan as I didi with Andrea Turcy (any for all the members) in september


Mav

I noticed people want it ALL with nothing more to do

Yeah, this is the main problem with retrogame newbies..

We've got to find a way to point this thing firmly so nobody will be able to say anymore "I though you would have done all"

[leeram]

Hi everyone,

I've decided to keep this after all. I went for a final visit to The Lair at Finny's (I guess it will be broken up now he's selling) and while there decided to buy a conversion kit off him so I can convert the Atari SA I bought to Atari DL (with signed marquee). I also got enough kit to restore my Cinemetronics SA. Thus saving me a couple of grand (because I didn't have to buy an Atari DL) that I can spend on other stuff.

Thanks for the interest. I'll post some links to my restoration and road trip etc.

Cheers

Lee