Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: Superully on December 05, 2010, 09:57:15 PM



Title: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 05, 2010, 09:57:15 PM
(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/news/rally.jpg)

let me start like this: I HAVE A DREAM! i want to own an original PONG arcade machine one day :-*

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5235471452_71fff8e908_d.jpg)

they sell from time to time on ebay.com for a fair amount of money, but bringing the cabinets over to Europe is what kills the deal most of the time - some have been lucky though ;) and i'm sure i'll get my PONG eventually!

when "time pilot" toralf put up a for sale thread (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2175.0) for a very rare pong clone called RALLY, i couldn't get that game out of my mind. So eventually a deal was struck with the seller! thx a lot, torald, for making the necessary arrangements!

PLUS i had just recently sold an OUT RUN MINI to a guy from a german arcade forum, who didn't have the means to pick up the game in person. since the buyer was based in southern germany as well, i offered to deliver the game to him. this would make for a nice roadtrip round - one going OUT, one going IN!!! 8)

here's what's coming up :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5235470878_367aab15b5_b_d.jpg)

the roadtrip actually started one day earlier when i went to The Storage™ to load the game into my car

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5244/5235457444_6109be8ea9_b_d.jpg)

in it goes

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5235457262_55ba2c841e_b_d.jpg)

that cab is really MINI - no problem at all to fit in the car and still a lot of space!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5235456932_0ff676b578_b_d.jpg)

the next day, nothing new weatherwise when looking out of the window

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5235457802_69e57595c2_b_d.jpg)

europe (and therefore germany as well) is still under the grasp of the artic cold

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5081/5234866337_8a33a3fd15_b_d.jpg)

no need to start early, but damn cold!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5234865881_98fb661be3_b_d.jpg)

the first stop isn't too far away

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5234865497_6bb21cc34d_b_d.jpg)

fortunately, both the autobahns ...

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5234867391_a7db828738_b_d.jpg)

... and the main roads have been cleared of the snow - so no problems driving at all!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5234867117_5f4dffc321_b_d.jpg)

i've never been to the university town of tübingen before - so here i come (shaking because of the cold?)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5234866665_f5bc2be0fa_b_d.jpg)

because the buyer lives on the second floor, he has ordered professional help

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5088/5234867873_3b3547dd8c_b_d.jpg)

it's a relief to watch other people carry those heavy games for a change

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5129/5234869139_d1de2e2dd1_b_d.jpg)

that's where it has to go

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5002/5235461518_521230a334_b_d.jpg)

and here's the dirty out run mini next to a nice clean neo geo cabinet (which is running m.a.m.e. inside)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5235461158_60f31260b4_b_d.jpg)

after a nice chat with the buyer and a cup of hot tea (thx), it's time to head off to my next destination! you may wonder: 1h45m for 100 kilometers - where the heck is he going? well, i was told that the town i'm going to next is THE TOWN in germany which is located furthest away from any autobahns exits!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/5235463008_30719830ab_b_d.jpg)

on my way out, i spot this sign by the side of the road: are those teenagers planning a riot because i'm going to get an atari clone? ;)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5235462662_8db888885e_b_d.jpg)

just as i'm leaving tübingen, the sun breaks through the clouds 8)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5235463740_1da4f4fc3b_b_d.jpg)

wonderful winter scenery with castle hohenzollern on the hill in the background - gotta love it :-*

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5235463326_ec10f4b14d_b_d.jpg)

after almost two more hours on the road, i have reached my destination

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5166/5234871481_1012acd647_b_d.jpg)

the seller is already expecting me and opens up the shed where the game is located

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5083/5235466276_7a882a8ffd_b_d.jpg)

a first glance from the back

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5235466012_f04188eafa_b_d.jpg)

and here it is: a stylish combination of wood and fiberglass from 1973!!! :spaceace:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5234872569_330b9a903d_b_d.jpg)

i know that the game is not working, but i want to do some inspections nevertheless

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5235464804_5b61f3530a_b_d.jpg)

i manage to knock off a couple euros from the asking price and everyone seem to be happy - so let's bring this game out for loading it into my car!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5127/5235465136_8311c6e649_b_d.jpg)

the out run was mini, but this game is TINY  :P

still lots and lots of space in the car

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5234874789_784d99f3c7_b_d.jpg)

time to head home - still under blue skies!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/5234873761_2edcc78b1d_b_d.jpg)

as the golden sun sets in the rear view mirror ...

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5282/5234877485_ab648d3b54_b_d.jpg)

... something even more golden rises in front of me! ;D

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5234875859_196b19aab7_b_d.jpg)

i haven't eaten anything since breakfast, so bring on something BIG :spaceace:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5235468120_d5d5edc318_b_d.jpg)

every time i look at that picture, i'm getting hungry again! that burger rockzzz

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5247/5234875541_1585ebedc2_b_d.jpg)

nothing spectacular during the rest of my journey back except for a nice melancholic sunset on the autobahn

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5234876079_85f86f31a2_b_d.jpg)

the (by now) well-known avenue leading up to my home town

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5208/5235469534_00f9cc7836_b_d.jpg)

statistics

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5235470208_b488c20da8_z_d.jpg) (http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5234876875_27c2a571bd_z_d.jpg)

everything's peaceful and quiet in good old lauda! the RALLY has to spend the night in the car for the unloading / detailed inspection process tomorrow - sleep tight!!!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5235471262_f94141c1c0_b_d.jpg)

one country, one county, 508 kilometers, 8 hours 2 minutes on the road - this roadtrip is OFFICIALLY OVER!



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 05, 2010, 11:35:45 PM
i had a feeling that you would get thisone  :)

So you decided to let go of the outrun ? thats a classic too IMHO

or will there be a deluxe sitdown one day  ;D

Congrats ully , and thanx for the pics

Love the pics with the castle!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: TimePilot on December 06, 2010, 07:01:48 AM
Nice roadtrip Ully! and nice to see, that you have saved the rally for a cheaper price.  :)
a REAL classic from 1973! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 07:14:31 AM
So you decided to let go of the outrun ? thats a classic too IMHO
or will there be a deluxe sitdown one day  ;D

i totally agree with you, etienne, out run definitely is a classic and needs to be in an arcade collection, but i never liked the mini version that much, because it's missing the fabulous full-color sideart. never liked the sitdown version either, so there's only one option for me: the full upright! :)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Belike on December 06, 2010, 08:58:57 AM
Germany looks beautiful in winter with that lot of snow and you were lucky with those cleared roads. ;D
I guess this is the oldest piece in your collection, congrats for the great catch, I hope you can repair it easily! ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 06, 2010, 09:00:31 AM
In the terms of space i need to agree with you , but for me if i had the space / opportunity i would like to have the deluxe sitdown

keep on dreaming etienne  :P

But thats just because i have fond memories to the deluxe, i never really played the upright, in my town the only version that was there was the deluxe moving cabinet  :-*


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Ronald Reagan on December 06, 2010, 09:24:43 AM
beautiful pictures, a snowy roadtrip report :ghost: :ghost:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Muerto on December 06, 2010, 03:48:50 PM
Nice road trip report as always!

It´s a hell of a game room you are going to build if all your machines will fit in there!  :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 04:11:02 PM
It´s a hell of a game room you are going to build if all your machines will fit in there!  :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

agreed, but i'm thinking somewhat in your direction: a barn ;D of course, i'd prefer to have all my games in the basement, but i'm afraid i'd have to rent barracks then ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: gyruss on December 06, 2010, 04:15:01 PM
Congratulations with your catch but too bad you let the outrun go, i think it's kinda cute..


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 05:53:55 PM

:spaceace: INSPECTION TIME :spaceace:

one day later, i've brought up the game into my apartment for immediate restoration. this game is by far the lightest i've ever brought up - two people can easily carry it with the help of the handle bars on the left and right hand side of the cabinet!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5237865373_074338bd6b_b_d.jpg)

but this game is also by far the dirtiest!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5237864991_0bd3a379f4_b_d.jpg)

let's start the inspection on the very back of the cabinet. two license plates here: an american one ...

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5209/5237867407_cb6e829a1c_b_d.jpg)

... and a german one! i wonder what the story of that cabinet is. the seller told me he got it from an old pub where it was standing around in a corner without getting any love :'( now it will :-*

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5238463234_dbc0a9ba0f_b_d.jpg)

on the front, the coin insert piece has been damaged - someone scraped off the 25c message >:(

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5237864625_17ba04479c_b_d.jpg)

the control panel itself shows some wear, i'll try to get a replica made of it with engraved lettering (if i ever manage to get those stupid knobs off (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1433648#post1433648))

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5088/5238461930_aeca7a23dc_b_d.jpg)

the left knob has been replaced - does anyone know where to find nice silver knob replicas?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5237866057_65ae6d8fde_b_d.jpg)

in the middle, an ugly white plastic player select switch - don't know if i'm going to keep it or try to find a fitting metal replacement

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5237866485_ae404c19ac_b_d.jpg)

the rails on the side of the cabinet - they are missing the protective plastic feet covers! should be easy to find replacements though

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5090/5237867751_cedd3360c7_b_d.jpg)

and of course they're full of rust - i'll have those rails chrom-plated to make them shiny again 8)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5237867579_776b874e36_b_d.jpg)

rails removed :shock:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5238467262_95e28c1df6_b_d.jpg)

a first peek inside

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/5238464884_7a6f805981_b_d.jpg)

the power supply box

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5238464402_c4ed064bfc_b_d.jpg)

extremely clean inside

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5237871343_bdc28d185a_b_d.jpg)

the cabinet with the fiberglass bezel removed - don't you just love it how that black & white tv hangs in there? :D

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5237869161_de2d07aae9_b_d.jpg)

wanna watch a round of television?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5237870665_f3c2baf873_b_d.jpg)

view from the top

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5238465680_6eef87e006_b_d.jpg)

the coin counter - not many rallies played

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5238462868_cb78335c58_b_d.jpg)

the pcb removed from the cabinet

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5238466436_c37ccf549f_b_d.jpg)

what a coincidence: 37 years ago to the day - happy birthday rally pcb

(http://www.motorradfreunde-lippe.de/wcf/images/smilies/smilie_geb_084.gif)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5241/5238466146_db9971bb9e_b_d.jpg)

shipped! shipped? shipped to where? ???

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5237869689_60b632abed_b_d.jpg)

there's a switch on the pcb!

question: does anyone know what the function of that switch is and the position it has to be in?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5168/5237870417_cbd93f078d_b_d.jpg)

i'm thrilled that the game also came with the original manual - those are as rare as the cabinet itself!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5238464624_1ebaba816b_b_d.jpg)

aren't those old manuals simply amazing?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5238465120_bd7168035a_b_d.jpg)

btw, i plugged the game in yesterday evening to see what's happening - no reaction at all! i'll have to do some further investigation, but for now i'm already in love with my RALLY - so glad i decided to get it!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5238464182_486b4c420d_b_d.jpg)



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Vnera on December 06, 2010, 07:02:39 PM
Lovely game. I think its a real buttie! i will keep my eye's open for a the same BW tv for ya. I just love the BW stuff so i check for it daily!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 07:29:18 PM
i will keep my eye's open for a the same BW tv for ya. I just love the BW stuff so i check for it daily!

thx a lot, i love those b/w games as well. while they probably aren't the greatest around gameplaywise, they sure make up for it designwise. well, in the case of RALLY people think it's either totally cool looking or damn ugly - i guess there's nothing in between. for some weird reason, i've fallen in love with that cabinet - must be the golden fiberglass which is blinding me 8) ("wake up, ully, this is not real gold!" ;))


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: DarthNuno on December 06, 2010, 08:11:26 PM
Fantastic catch Ully  :-* :-* :-*

I really love that cabinet... so 'Computer Space' like... as you say, you love it or you hate it... I LOVE IT  :-*
1973 is my year! Hope you'll resurrect this 70's baby  ;)

Great pictures (what is your camera model by the way?), great story, thanks for sharing it with us.

All the honors of course  :)  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/news/rally.jpg)

 :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

 


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: scr33n on December 06, 2010, 08:37:01 PM
Yes ... awesome catch Ully!!! Congratulations !!!  :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

1973 is my year, too ... now we want to see a great restoration  8)

PS: nice banner Bruno  :-*


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 06, 2010, 09:03:12 PM
AFAIK Ully has a Canon DSLR that "shows some mileage" but obviously still works great :)

I LOVE THAT CAB !!! Glad you got it !!!

I was just 6 when that cab was built....geez.... :D

I LOVE that full TV in there :) Look at the cool: Solid State note on it (not tubes man, fully transistorized, wow ! (compare to CS, full-tube TV in that one))

I was kind of right about the marquee looking much like a Dymo letter-print ;D. That will clean up nicely ! (Is there any lighting behind it ? Guess not)

I do see one problem with the PCB though. The processor is missing ! ;) ;) ;)



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 09:27:35 PM
AFAIK Ully has a Canon DSLR that "shows some mileage" but obviously still works great :)

i do have a canon DSLR indeed - one point for andré :) one of the first digital cameras canon made but still worth its money (paid 1800 euros for it back then), but when i compare it to the latest model my friend has ... what a difference!

however, this time i didn't bring my enormous heavy DSLR, but a lighter canon pocket camera i "borrowed" from school. you don't have many options there, but the picture quality ain't bad either. however, it's not about the camera, it's about the guy who takes the photos ...  ;) ;) ;) 8) 8) 8)

I LOVE THAT CAB !!! Glad you got it !!!

me too, i'm still celebrating!

I LOVE that full TV in there :) Look at the cool: Solid State note on it (not tubes man, fully transistorized, wow ! (compare to CS, full-tube TV in that one))

sounds cool, although i have no idea what you're talking about!  :P

I was kind of right about the marquee looking much like a Dymo letter-print ;D. That will clean up nicely ! (Is there any lighting behind it ? Guess not)

it will clean up nicely for sure. unfortunately, there is no light behind it, the marquee is integrated into the fiberglass and cannot be removed. i'm sure it would look kickass if there were some kind of light behind it.

I do see one problem with the PCB though. The processor is missing ! ;) ;) ;)

yeah man, who stole it? give it back to me! must be a gang operating on a higher, well-organized level (42?), because they also stole the processor from the pong pcbs! have a look at the original pong board in comparison to the rally bootleg - what a blatant rip-off!

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5048/5238538857_045836352b_z_d.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5238466436_c37ccf549f_z_d.jpg)

@bruno: thx for the fabulous banner - wonderfully executed as always!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 06, 2010, 09:29:22 PM

while i'm working on different parts of the machine, i still would like to know the function of that switch on the pcb

PLUS could you guys help me with measuring voltages if i provided you with scans from the manual? i can measure voltages on a switcher, but those huge power blocks with their tons of cables are too much for me atm. whatever your answer is, i'll make some scans ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 06, 2010, 11:03:23 PM
testmode maybe  ??? or freeplay  ???


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 06, 2010, 11:06:26 PM
Well, what does the Pong manual say ?

I'd be VERY glad that it is so much alike the original because that makes chances of fixing it/getting it fixed a lot higher....


The good thing about Pong games: you can't MAME them :P


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: italiandoh on December 06, 2010, 11:36:31 PM

while i'm working on different parts of the machine, i still would like to know the function of that switch on the pcb

PLUS could you guys help me with measuring voltages if i provided you with scans from the manual? i can measure voltages on a switcher, but those huge power blocks with their tons of cables are too much for me atm. whatever your answer is, i'll make some scans ;)

You can ask Marco, he's got a Rally too.
Take a look at this site (http://www.vernimark.com/arcade/default.asp?PageMode=3&PageMode2=4&GameID=587&tog=6#Game587).

Matteo


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 07, 2010, 10:42:28 AM
while i'm working on different parts of the machine, i still would like to know the function of that switch on the pcb

Many early (Atari) games have this kind of switches, Breakout FI uses them for 1 or 2 credits per coin and number of balls (3 or 5), so my guess it's purpose is something in that direction. Like a DIP switch substitute.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 07, 2010, 01:50:41 PM
Many early (Atari) games have this kind of switches, Breakout FI uses them for 1 or 2 credits per coin and number of balls (3 or 5), so my guess it's purpose is something in that direction. Like a DIP switch substitute.

yeah, but don't you see the writing on the side of the switch? looks as if it has something to do with voltages ...

@sascha: have you scanned the rally manual? if not, i'll do that later!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 07, 2010, 02:06:28 PM
is there no mention in the manual for this switch ?

The link from italiandoh gives a picture called "optionswitch"
the question is what option  ???


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 07, 2010, 03:23:02 PM
yeah, but don't you see the writing on the side of the switch? looks as if it has something to do with voltages ...

This is just the technical specification for the switch itself. I'm sure it's some kind of option switch, you don't select any voltages or anything.


@sascha: have you scanned the rally manual? if not, i'll do that later!

I don't have one ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 07, 2010, 04:52:13 PM
ok, i've just scanned and uploaded the complete rally manual (don't know how to clean it though) - you can grab it here (http://rapidshare.com/files/435481248/manual_rally.pdf)!

perhaps someone can tell me after checking the manual what that switch on the pcb is for ...

now to my next problem: checking the voltages! what follows are two pages from the manual - who can tell me how / where to check for correct voltages? i'd like to have that baby up and running before christmas :)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5240869729_f4e16e52dd_b_d.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5241465058_86ae50aa1b_b_d.jpg)

in case you need the corresponding "live picture" of the power block again: here you go :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5086/5237871343_bdc28d185a_b_d.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: ckong on December 07, 2010, 05:51:05 PM
Wow, nice catch Ully, that is an incredible looking machine, and damn old!  :)

I like the way it looks from the inside, so empty. I suppose that you are going to exchange the TV because of the burn in. You should be able to find another B/W TV easily, here in Holland they are very common on Marktplaats.

I wish you good luck and lots of pleasure restoring this cab to a nice working condition, shouldn't be a problem with all the tech guys here on board.  ;D

By the way, I also scored a Pong machine machine very recently:  ;)

(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/MostoneHide-AwayTVGame5229.jpg)




Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 07, 2010, 06:10:47 PM
Wow, nice catch Ully, that is an incredible looking machine, and damn old!  :)

thx erik, but if that machine is damn old, what am i? ;)

I suppose that you are going to exchange the TV because of the burn in. You should be able to find another B/W TV easily, here in Holland they are very common on Marktplaats.

as strange as it may sound because of my "analness" regarding restorations, i could care less about burn-in. to me, this is what shows the history of a cab. PLUS there is a black plexiglass bezel on top of the television (you can see it on the picture where the tv is still in the cabinet) which takes away most of the burn-in. if i were to find the exact same tv model, i might consider replacing it though!

By the way, I also scored a Pong machine machine very recently:  ;)

i've got an pong atari home console here. if i failed to repair the game, i could always put this one in making this some kind of "mame-ification" ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: ckong on December 07, 2010, 06:14:09 PM

The good thing about Pong games: you can't MAME them :P

Mame can't emulate it, but it has been simulated in Mame. I still have it in one of my mame setups. You can also still play it in misfitmame.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 07, 2010, 08:49:34 PM
Well start measuring these:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5241465058_86ae50aa1b_b_d.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 07, 2010, 09:59:31 PM
Well start measuring these:

how exactly? WHT / BLK / ORN / BLU need to be measured in AC (if my vrey basic electronic knowledge is correct), but where to put which multimeter lead? on the other side of the power supply voltages should be in DC. RED (5) and YEL (6) are not used (needed for american voltages?), which leaves RED (7), BRN (8) and BRN again (9). should measure in at 16 V, right? what does C.T. stand for? where to put the leads of the multimeters here?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 07, 2010, 10:49:02 PM
First check:

Measure in AC between pin 4 and 6 on the card-edge connector. Guess it should be (about) 16VAC there.

Be sure to have the interlock pulled out completely (if it has that function).

Measure on the TV input if there's (about) 115VAC.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 07:01:25 AM
Measure in AC between pin 4 and 6 on the card-edge connector. Guess it should be (about) 16VAC there.

card edge connector = pcb connector? with the connector removed from / plugged in the pcb? why AC? Shouldn't it be DC "on the other side"? why pins 4 & 6 - please enlighten me  8)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 09:58:56 AM
perhaps someone can tell me after checking the manual what that switch on the pcb is for ..

It may be an option switch...  ::)

Tons of boards from that period (esp. Atari boards, and this is a clone of one) have those switches as option switches, like I said for 1 or 2 credits per coin or 3 or 5 balls per play etc. You'll find out when the board is working, niow forget about that bloody switch.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 10:01:36 AM
why AC? Shouldn't it be DC "on the other side"?

The DC voltage is generated on the game board itself, common practice in those days. Note the voltage regulator with the heatsink around it, that is part of the onboard power supply, as is the large capacitator (plus other parts, diodes and stuff).


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 10:25:02 AM
ok, got it! but out of curiosity: why pins 4 and 6? i'll take those measures later and report back.

should i measure the voltages with the tv set and the pcb attached to their corresponding connectors?

oh, and regarding that switch: which switch? ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 10:40:51 AM
I guess it's better to measure them when connected, otherwise you might get false readings.



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 08, 2010, 12:18:38 PM
are there any fuses in the TV ? maybe they are blown, and the game is playing "blind" ? (i assume the sound also comes from the tv)

Anyway,
About the switch, in the manual i can see all the parts that are in the partlist on the layout exept "SW2"

it could be that this is the only part that is not labeled on the layout, and SW stands for switch if you ask me

"it says SW 2 - Score Count" so it seems to be an option switch doing something with the couting of the score..

but what  ???

In the manual also all the parts are specificated, so if everything fails , order everything and replace all parts  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 12:28:59 PM
In the manual also all the parts are specificated, so if everything fails , order everything and replace all parts  ;D

sure thing, i'll simply log into "etienne's online rally shop" and click on ORDER EVERYTHING TO GET AN OLD PONG CLONE UP AND RUNNING! ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 12:48:04 PM
"it says SW 2 - Score Count" so it seems to be an option switch doing something with the couting of the score..

There you go...

So then you use it to set the maximum score, 11 or 15.
It's even written beside the switch in the schematic:

(http://img2.imagebanana.com/img/4muw4x6q/Seitenausmanual_rally.jpg)

Now I don't want to hear anything more about that switch, EVER!  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Belike on December 08, 2010, 12:52:35 PM
Lol, it's very funny to follow this topic, this switch became very popular among arcade collectors in the last days! ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 12:52:41 PM
thx guys - i will finally get a good round of sleep tonight because now i know what THE SWITCH   is for ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 12:55:48 PM
thx guys - i will finally get a good round of sleep tonight because now i know what THE SWITCH is for ;)

The WHAT?  ??? ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 12:59:00 PM
This ?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097252/


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 01:44:49 PM
ok, did some quick measuring during the lunch break:

the DC voltages on the IN side of the power block measure in at around 113 volts - shouldn't they be around 230?

the DC voltages on the connector (pin 4 & 6) measure in at around 17 volts!

both measures were taken with both the TV and the PCB removed - i wanted to make sure everything's alright before continuing. are those measures ok?

now on to the TV part. here are the three wires going to the tv set :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5126/5243878882_b4f1cbc2f5_b_d.jpg)

and here's the back of the monitor tv where the wires connect to :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5243280957_4d92a1d7df_b_d.jpg)

the brown and white/green wires with the attached connectors clip onto the UHF connectors on the back, the brown/black wire is screwed to the left of the two VHF screws. unfortunately, the UHF connectors came off when i removed the tv from the cabinet, so i don't know where which color goes. IS THAT IMPORTANT to know?

anyway, i put the red and black multimeter leads on the two wires with the connectors (brown & white/green) and the DC measure i got was somewhat strange: around 0.80 volts. remember, this is with the tv NOT attached, but shouldn't it also be around 115 volts? any input on this? would you connect the PCB and the TV now and see what happens?

BTW, the previous owner had exchanged the plug because the old one was corroded. i told you that NOTHING was happening when i tried the game for the first time - not even a sound from the power supply. well, i realized that the owner had made an error during the installation of the plug, so i corrected this error earlier. when i plug in the game now and pull the interlock switch, i can hear a nice constant humming from the power supply :)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 02:07:38 PM
ok, did some quick measuring during the lunch break:

the DC voltages on the IN side of the power block measure in at around 113 volts - shouldn't they be around 230?

I'm not sure if I understand you right, but that's AC going into the power block, not DC, so maybe you did just measure the wrong way  ;)


anyway, i put the red and black multimeter leads on the two wires with the connectors (brown & white/green) and the DC measure i got was somewhat strange: around 0.80 volts. remember, this is with the tv NOT attached, but shouldn't it also be around 115 volts? any input on this? would you connect the PCB and the TV now and see what happens?

Ully, these are the wires which provide the TV with sound and picture, not power, so thankfully no 115 V there  ;D. Video, Audio & GND. I guess they should come from pins 22 (Com->GND), 16 (audio), 20 (video). Just follow them back to the edge connector of the PCB, the actual wire colors don't seem to match the ones described in the schematic.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 05:47:51 PM
I'm not sure if I understand you right, but that's AC going into the power block, not DC, so maybe you did just measure the wrong way  ;)

sure, stupid me. measures are right - i was just not intelligent enough to type AC ;) so that's around 113 volts AC. could that be right?

Ully, these are the wires which provide the TV with sound and picture, not power, so thankfully no 115 V there  ;D. Video, Audio & GND. I guess they should come from pins 22 (Com->GND), 16 (audio), 20 (video). Just follow them back to the edge connector of the PCB, the actual wire colors don't seem to match the ones described in the schematic.

i found the tv power connectors - they measure in at around 115 volts!

one question remains: is the position of those two connector wires important? or is it trial and error?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 08, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
Its AC so that should not matter


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 06:35:30 PM
Its AC so that should not matter

it DID matter, because as laschek said, this is NOT AC. made some progress, i'm uploading videos as we speak - stay tuned!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 06:54:18 PM
it DID matter, because as laschek said, this is NOT AC. made some progress, i'm uploading videos as we speak - stay tuned!

You are confused  ;D It IS AC.
We do speak from the voltage going into the power plug, do we? Coming from the wall plug, going through the fuse, etc. This is AC and you should measure 230 Volts of course.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 07:04:18 PM
ok, with the measures all looking normal to me, i connected both the pcb and the tv to their corresponding connectors. here's my setup :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5243919277_bf9c69cfcd_b_d.jpg)

i then plugged in the game and pulled out the interlock switch. the power supply started humming, but nothing on the tv screen :(

ok, i exchanged the connectors on the back of the tv set and powered up the game :arrow: here's the result (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPROA9w1dGw) :)

as you can see, the picture is shifted to the left, it is "jumping" and there is a line running through the picture, but it's a start!

i found the "hidden service menu knobs" on the back ;) and managed to center the picture. i pushed down the credit coin-up microswitch :arrow: here's the result (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXPQQ0ULKZE) :)

note that the dash on the left is much larger than the one on the right. PLUS you can hear this ball sound as if it were bouncing around. however, the controls were disconnected. so i took the entire control panel and attached it. when i restarted the game and credited it up, the bigger dash on the left was gone, but the bouncing sound was still there!

i tested the controls :arrow: here's the result (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh1SxYhpgT8) :)

as you can see, the controls are not responding perfectly and they are "jumping" a little bit, but they work! the problem is that the ball is still missing (am i supposed to serve it somehow?) and that the picture is of mediocre quality!

question: where's the ball?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 07:08:30 PM
We do speak from the voltage going into the power plug, do we? Coming from the wall plug, going through the fuse, etc. This is AC and you should measure 230 Volts of course.

yes, but the voltages before and after the power supply both measure in at around 115 volts. and the two connectors going to the UHF TV input are for video, audio and ground - and i have no idea whether those are AC, DC or WHATEVER-C, because the game seems to be working. not perfectly, but at least there's something on the screen which looks like PONG :spaceace:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 07:11:51 PM
but at least there's something on the screen which looks like PONG :spaceace:

Looks more like RALLY to me  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 08:04:34 PM
Soo, maybe it's a good idea to do some more measuring. You should check if the board gets a good +5V. I recommend measuring at the voltage regulator (that thing surrounded by the heatsink). This part should be the last part in the +5V circuit and give out, well, around +5V DC...
Alternatively you can pick a random IC from the board, find its pinout on the net and check on its respective +5V and GND pins.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 08:21:35 PM
Ully, do they have some summer courses in electronics around your school ?

You really need to get the grips on the basics.....you still have 50 cabs to go.......

Quote
as you can see, the controls are not responding perfectly and they are "jumping" a little bit, but they work!
I have one advice REPLACE THE POTMETERS. They are 37 year olds. They are GONE. Buy NEW one's.
Don't go fiddling with contact spray, it won't work (in the long run), it's more likely to make things worse.

Quote
the problem is that the ball is still missing (am i supposed to serve it somehow?)
Read the instructions on the Control Panel :) (No "Insert coin" texts on screen in those days :)) So, credit it and the ball will serve...(if it will work OK)

Quote
and that the picture is of mediocre quality
............it is a TV of 37 years old and you're complaining ? Man, you are very lucky that it is already as far as it is !!!

There maybe a focus control that may be able to improve it. New caps can also do wonders on B/W monitors...
If all that fails, rejuvenating the tube may be necessary....


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 08:32:27 PM

Quote
the problem is that the ball is still missing (am i supposed to serve it somehow?)
Read the instructions on the Control Panel :) (No "Insert coin" texts on screen in those days :))

He did push the credit switch  ;) but I don't think you necessarily have to serve the ball. Many early games start right when a coin is inserted, Tank comes to my mind FI.

EDIT: André, did I skip a part of your text or did you edit that part in about the ball will serve when credited?

In any case, never mind my post...  :P ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 08:35:11 PM
The instructions on the CP say that the ball will serve automatically after inserting a coin (else it would need a serve button).

Didn't read that he pushed the credit switch...there you go, my mistake !!!  :oops: :oops: :oops:

There's bound to be some problem(s) on the PCB....but I agree with Laschek, measure the +5V somewhere on the board.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 08:36:08 PM
He did push the credit switch  ;) but I don't think you necessarily have to serve the ball. Many early games start right when a coin is inserted, Tank comes to my mind FI.

yes, i did credit the game. when you do that, the horizontal line from the first video disappears and the score resets to ZERO! but no ball ...


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 08:38:51 PM
There's bound to be some problem(s) on the PCB....but I agree with Laschek, measure the +5V somewhere on the board.

With some luck it may be a very simple solution. I had a Stunt Cycle PCB with a bad picture and you couldn't start the game. Turned out it was a bad cap (the big one) on the 5V circuitry, nothing more.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 08:42:09 PM
Ully, do they have some summer courses in electronics around your school ?
You really need to get the grips on the basics.....you still have 50 cabs to go.......

i know, andré, i know, but i'm trying hard. i've bought the randy fromm dvds, but brian forgot to include them in my last shipment :(. hopefully they will advance my elelctronic skills a little bit - THEY NEED TO!!!

btw, it's not 50 cabs to go, it's like only half of it! ;)

I have one advice REPLACE THE POTMETERS. They are 37 year olds. They are GONE. Buy NEW one's.
Don't go fiddling with contact spray, it won't work (in the long run), it's more likely to make things worse.

alright, point taken. where's the best place to get them?

............it is a TV of 37 years old and you're complaining ? Man, you are very lucky that it is already as far as it is !!!
There maybe a focus control that may be able to improve it. New caps can also do wonders on B/W monitors...
If all that fails, rejuvenating the tube may be necessary....

don't get me wrong, i'm absolutely thrilled that the game is working as it is at the moment, i hadn't expected it to work like it does. i'll open up the tv at the weekend, have a look at the caps and order replacements.

i'm going to measure the voltages on the board first though!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 08:43:42 PM
Yeah, that wouldn't be unlikely at all...

Ully, put your meter in AC voltage and put the test leads on both legs of the capacitors (the big one, but also try the smaller one's).
Then power on the machine.

Let's hear what you measure....

(the thing is that the capacitor is supposed to filter out any "left over" AC voltage. When the capacitor is bad (like Lascheck mentions) you will see a certain AC voltage there.

After you've done the AC voltage measuring switch the meter to Voltage DC measuring for the big capacitor..and let's see the result.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 08:44:58 PM
Make a pic of the pots and check the value (ohms).


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 09:00:02 PM
Ully, put your meter in AC voltage and put the test leads on both legs of the capacitors (the big one, but also try the smaller one's).
Then power on the machine.
Let's hear what you measure....

AC measured the big silver capacitor right next to the edge connector. result: 0.47 volts
AC measured the smaller silver capacitor right next to the big silver capacitor. result: 0.014 volts

 
After you've done the AC voltage measuring switch the meter to Voltage DC measuring for the big capacitor..and let's see the result.

switched to DC took some measures:

DC measured the big silver capacitor right next to the edge connector. result: 8.7 volts
DC measured the smaller silver capacitor right next to the big silver capacitor. result: 5.1 volts



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: ckong on December 08, 2010, 09:00:58 PM
Guys, you should be on skype or something like that. This topic shows almost live communication at the moment. and it's great to follow.

Ully, don't feel ashamed, I'm sure I know much less of electronics then you do. But them again, I'm great in business finance and control.  :)

Edit: this is exactly what I mean, there was another new post while writing my brief message.  :lol:

Edit2: This road trip report completely derails!  ;) :D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 09:01:14 PM
BTW:

THX FOR YOUR HELP GUYS :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 09:02:18 PM
But them again, I'm great in business finance and control.  :)

and i'm a pretty good teacher i think ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 09:05:34 PM
Maybe flicking that switch does the trick?  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Brry71 on December 08, 2010, 09:08:13 PM


question: where's the ball?

<silly mode>Well, you did transport it laying flat... Didn't they roll out of the cab? :lol: </silly mode>


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 09:13:05 PM
You should check if the board gets a good +5V. I recommend measuring at the voltage regulator (that thing surrounded by the heatsink). This part should be the last part in the +5V circuit and give out, well, around +5V DC...

just did the measuring at the voltage regulator (thx for the link, sascha): steady at +5.10 volts. so we're good here!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 08, 2010, 09:15:59 PM
So everything's fine, congratulations!  ;D ;D ;D ;)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 08, 2010, 09:25:21 PM
something else wrong with the board then?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 08, 2010, 10:04:08 PM
Replace "SW 2"  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 08, 2010, 11:15:32 PM
Well, there's a shit-load of 74xx logic chips there that can have a fault.

It's probably only one or two, but the difficulty is: which.

Here is where my limits start to come up.

Oh, and I never meant to be "insulting" guys (you know). Just want to prevent explosions ;)





Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 09, 2010, 06:52:59 AM
i've found a guy in the usa who's specialized in PONG board repairs. he agreed to have a look at my RALLY board and do the necessary repairs. would you guys send it off?

or is there someone around here who wants to have a go at it?

@sascha: who repaired your boards?
@andré: do you think speleo would be able to fix it?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Laschek on December 09, 2010, 08:50:44 AM
@sascha: who repaired your boards?

If I can't fix it myself then nobody can  ;D
Just kidding, we had our Super Bug repaired by Speleo and where very pleased with his service, I would ask him before sending it off to the US.

Then we had sent our Crystal Castles PCB to Golytronic in Pforzheim..., I am sure he would be able to repair your PCB... Thing is we never got our board back...  :evil:

That's one reason why I try to learn as much as possible and do it myself...



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 09, 2010, 09:31:30 AM
Just to be very anal, the switch is indeed for the ending score of 11 or 15..

this is the only "dipswitch" in mame and since there is only one switch on the board and it even has the marks of 11 and 15 this must be it

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/pong.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Q*ris on December 09, 2010, 11:05:44 AM
Excellent roadtrip with great pics! (yes, what is the brand of that smallest borrowed camera you brought along)?
As I said earlier, I totaly love the look and feel of this cab! ...and the cherry on top is that it landed in your hands... without any doubts you will restore it wonderfULLY ;-)
OK now I shut up and watch and learn.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 09, 2010, 06:58:37 PM
Make a pic of the pots and check the value (ohms).

i've finally managed to get those stupid knobs off :twisted:

the paddle potis are listed in the manual as 50k pc mount pot - here are the pictures :arrow:

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5247033186_fcdf363b06_b_d.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5246430187_ebbf93cd5b_b_d.jpg)

as you can see, 5k pots were used (without the zero behind it), so i guess that's the value i have to look for.

now the question: where can i get replacement potentiometers with the correct ohm value?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 09, 2010, 07:20:11 PM
Wel watta ya knaw, this looks exactly like the SW yoke pots !

I still have my old pots (that were working fine)....


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 09, 2010, 09:01:05 PM
5K.. , still have one here i think, let me check...

here in our local electric shop they carry them for sure, but maybe you can order them at RS online

they are 5 - 10 €

lookst like a standard pot to me

EDIT:
Nope, the only one i got here is 2M5
The label i got (and have good exerience with) is Piher

The shaft you can cut at the desired length wich can be handy sometimes

(http://www.tme.eu/katalog_pics/3/8/6/386ca0c30396704a23e021154eda26df/6mmi%205k.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Robinholland on December 09, 2010, 09:07:08 PM
Why new ones ?
Can't you clean them ?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 09, 2010, 09:16:54 PM
Why new ones ? Can't you clean them ?

as you can see on the video i posted, the paddles are "jumping", so perhaps replacing them like andré suggested wouldn't be a bad idea - after all, they're 37 years old!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: speleo_de on December 09, 2010, 09:25:19 PM
The J Type pot is a heavy duty one that takes many ten-thousands of movements .
Don't use the standard ones for audio stuff.

SEGA / Starwars all use the 5k pots Type J or better. They sometimes appear on EBAY and not sure if I should point you to ramcontrols these days.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 09, 2010, 09:25:27 PM
the paddle potis are listed in the manual as 50k pc mount pot - here are the pictures :arrow:

as you can see, 5k pots were used (without the zero behind it), so i guess that's the value i have to look for.

I dont want to be an ass, but i think you are mixing things, look at this picture, its from your manual

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/rally.jpg)

the manual specifies 5K for the pots on page 7 & 9, but you saw only page 13 i think, wich are the pots on the board..
they are "ajustment pots" according to the manual..

Maybe you can replace these too to be totally sure, the "onboard" pots are much cheaper than the metal ones with shaft..



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 09, 2010, 09:31:32 PM
thx etienne, once again i mixed something up :-[


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 09, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
The J Type pot is a heavy duty one that takes many ten-thousands of movements .
Don't use the standard ones for audio stuff.
SEGA / Starwars all use the 5k pots Type J or better. They sometimes appear on EBAY and not sure if I should point you to ramcontrols these days.

thx! so you're saying i should either try my luck on ebay or try my luck at ramcontrols? are those exactly the same ones used on star wars being sold in pairs of two for 20 bucks at ramcontrols? man, if only dave could run his business a little bit better ...


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 09, 2010, 09:44:54 PM
thx etienne, once again i mixed something up :-[

eventually you will learn  :D

and thats what we are here for right? to learn from eachother !  :spaceace:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 09, 2010, 10:46:23 PM
Why new ones ?
Can't you clean them ?

No. They're probably not dirty but gone.

37 years....

I totally agree with Speleo. Don't get the standard stuff (IF they already fit, I think the one you mention Etienne might be metric sized ?)
Those potmeters are expensive for a reason. David at RAM controls sells an even better quality than what Atari put in the SW yoke....

I haven't been into the loop about David lately but I assume he is in one of his hibernation-periods again ?

You could maybe try my old SW pots Ully BUT the thing is that SW's software is averaging out the potmeters during play (yes really) so that (temporary) errors (like jittering is) won't be (very) noticeable in the game.
So, my old pots may still be OK but may also not...





Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: gyruss on December 18, 2010, 12:27:18 PM
Just came across this article about Rally in the book Supercade - a visual history of videogame age 1971-1984.
Don't know if you have the book yourself so i scanned the page.

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6817/licentieshow0002.jpg) (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/licentieshow0002.jpg/)



Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 18, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
thx for the scan, gyruss. i DO have the book myself, but haven't looked into it for a while, so i didn't remember that rally is in there. so thx again, i'll check it out "live" later!

p.s.: i'm working on my rally "behind the scenes" - stay tuned for an update!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 21, 2010, 09:46:54 PM
today i pulled out the chassis from the hitachi b/w television to see how many capacitors need to be replaced: 33 (in words: THIRTY-THREE) :o

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5281295796_50b5e94af3_b_d.jpg)

do i really have to replace every single one of them? this is going to take forever ... :ghost: :ghost: :ghost:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 21, 2010, 10:26:50 PM
Only 33 ?

You should try a Hantarex....:)

Remember that it's a TV and not a monitor. That's why there are much more caps.

Now, I don't actually think they produced a HF (High Frequency, like the TV signal that used to be transmitted through the air) on the game PCB SOOOOOOOOO, somehow they must have "hacked" the LF (low frequency) signal into the TV....


Following this (if you still follow), in theory, you would only need to replace the caps that are in the LF section and power supply section.....

I'd have to study the manual for that....

Can you indicate which wires run from the game PCB to the monitor PCB ?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 21, 2010, 10:52:30 PM
Now, I don't actually think they produced a HF (High Frequency, like the TV signal that used to be transmitted through the air) on the game PCB SOOOOOOOOO, somehow they must have "hacked" the LF (low frequency) signal into the TV....
Following this (if you still follow), in theory, you would only need to replace the caps that are in the LF section and power supply section.....

you lost me somewhere along the road ...  :-[

Can you indicate which wires run from the game PCB to the monitor PCB ?

puh, this is going to be difficult - i'll try to check tomorrow if it helps. but wouldn't it be better if i simply replaced all the caps because they are so old?

one more question: do i have to replace that big black capacitor in the middle of the following picture as well?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5286/5281444444_5811e72c9f_b_d.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 21, 2010, 11:01:46 PM
it does not hurt to replace them all..

its the "shotgun" methode, and its possible ofcourse

if its neccesary?, difficult to say, i guess not , but they are all 25+ years so if youre going to cap it, might as well go all the way  ;)

the question remains, does this resolve your problem ? (dont remember exactly what your problem was)
it could also be something else than a cap...


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 21, 2010, 11:25:17 PM
the question remains, does this resolve your problem ? (dont remember exactly what your problem was)
it could also be something else than a cap...

the picture is shaky and distorted - at least it looks like a cap kit could do the trick. i'll try that first!

here's a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPROA9w1dGw&feature=related)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 22, 2010, 09:14:28 AM
they are all 25+ years so if youre going to cap it, might as well go all the way  ;)

in this case, they are 37+ years - close to my age! :ghost:


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 22, 2010, 11:10:44 PM
Yeah cap them all, it's the shot-gun method...and all seems easy to access....


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 23, 2010, 08:31:18 AM
i'll cap them all except for the non-polarized one because i haven't been able to find an exact replacement for it and the big black one on the picture above because it is not directly on the chassis.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 23, 2010, 08:57:37 AM
.......... because it is not directly on the chassis.
that is not a garanty that its still fine..  ;)

if you find the bigone, you can solder the wires to the replacement cap
it will probably be a little smaller one

they have them also at RS: (http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&Nty=1&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&Ntk=I18NAll&Ns=stockPolicy_de%7c1%7c%7cnew_de%7c1&Ne=4294920230&Nr=AND%28avl%3ade%2csearchDiscon_de%3aN%29&N=4294417669+4294914855+4294918859+4294918862+4294918864&binCount=6306&Ntt=kondensator&multiselectParam=4294417669&selectSubRange=Klemmbefestigung - ALS30, B43564 85 °C#breadCrumb)
(http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R3397874-25.jpg)

although i hope you dont need this (http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0497659) value.....
Look at the price of that S.O.B.  :o


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: McVenco on December 23, 2010, 09:19:00 AM
How about this one:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12013_Power-Acoustik-PCX-5F.html

A 5 Farad cap :shock: . They use these things in car audio installations.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 23, 2010, 09:52:39 AM
Yep, that prevents that your headlights are dimming in the rithm of the bass  ;D


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 23, 2010, 10:04:12 AM
if you find the bigone, you can solder the wires to the replacement cap
it will probably be a little smaller one

the value of that thing is 2200uF 25V. i'll go WITHOUT replacing it first and if the tv still doesn't work properly, i might exchange that b**** as well!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Level42 on December 23, 2010, 10:01:53 PM
Power up the TV, put your DVM in AC voltage mode and measure across the terminals of that capacitor.

If it's good you will have a value of almost 0 on your meter. Let me know what you measure.

(Of course only do this if you haven't started the cap-kitting..! (Or if you finished it).


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on December 23, 2010, 11:38:41 PM
Power up the TV, put your DVM in AC voltage mode and measure across the terminals of that capacitor.
If it's good you will have a value of almost 0 on your meter. Let me know what you measure.
(Of course only do this if you haven't started the cap-kitting..! (Or if you finished it).

thx andré! i haven't started cap kitting yet, but i had to remove some wires to get the chassis out, so i guess i'll do the cap kit first and check that special capacitor afterwards!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on August 07, 2011, 01:39:42 PM
Whats up with rally ATM ully ?


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on August 08, 2011, 12:57:24 AM
Whats up with rally ATM ully ?

i haven't been able to find the right piece of aluminum for the reproductions of the control panels yet. seriously, i haven't done any digging for a while now, my main priority is to finish the moon patrol & the jungle king at the moment. but the rally definitely is not forgotten!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on September 17, 2011, 10:46:16 PM
i haven't been able to find the right piece of aluminum for the reproductions of the control panels yet.

finally started work on this one again. since i haven't been able to find the correct aluminium and even if i had been successful it would still have to be cut to the correct size and put all the correct holes inside, i've decided to use the original pieces. i'm going to sand them down completely and create the brushed aluminium look myself later. first test runs have been pretty convincing, so hopefully this is going to work out!

this cabinet is a piece of art on its own and it deserves to be (dis)played!


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on September 24, 2011, 11:56:14 AM

as i've stated above, i've been working on the control panel lately and here are the results so far. originally, it looked like this with worn-off paint and some nasty scratches :arrow:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6177571020_5da64908b1_b_d.jpg)

player 1 doesn't look much better either

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6177570798_f59856b503_b_d.jpg)

and the coin insert plate with the scratched-off "25c" text. this is going to be replaced by the word "TOKEN" later

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6177043529_7649daed8d_b_d.jpg)

before doing anything else, i need to scan the original art

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6177571404_6ccbdccbeb_b_d.jpg)

stitched together!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6177043987_74568e5aae_b_d.jpg)

my idea is to have the text silkscreened back onto the panel, but in order to do so the old text (and the scratches) have to go, so out comes acetone!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6177570574_b809aac9a6_b_d.jpg)

coming off nicely

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6177570444_3c20a363dd_b_d.jpg)

a couple of cheap magic sponges later ...

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6177042803_0f45561144_b_d.jpg)

... the text is gone, but the scratches remain - who would have guessed? :P

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6177569992_6de3014dcc_b_d.jpg)

in order to get rid off them, i'm taping the metal pieces to a plank of wood ...

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6177041647_d066b6739e_b_d.jpg)

... and out comes the orbital sander! :twisted:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6177042571_86125d4f90_b_d.jpg)

after that, a nice round of metal polish

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6177042251_7caf1dc97e_b_d.jpg)

look how clean and shiny this is now. honestly, i've been thinking about using it like this without the brushed aluminium look, because the other metal pieces on the cabinet are also shiny (no brushed effect there), but i've decided to go for the original look eventually. what would you have done - shiny or brushed?

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6177042705_2c57726089_b_d.jpg)

in order to create that brushed aluminium look, i'm taping the plate to a block of wood ...

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/6177569526_1b36778873_b_d.jpg)

... and then i'm slowly pulling it over sanding paper of various grain sizes!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6177041789_2f485c5004_b_d.jpg)

still looking a little bit rough on the following picture, but after going over a 1200 grit sanding paper afterwards, it looks really really nice!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6177569662_c7c2a8b316_b_d.jpg)

i did the same to the bigger piece of metal (the one with the player controls) and my idea is to take it to the anodizer on monday to add a protective layer on top. the anodizing process will also take away the shiny surface to produce a soft matte finish. however, i'm still not convinced 100% whether to do it like that or return to the shiny look!

i need some input, guys!!! it's not too late to turn back ...


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 24, 2011, 02:08:44 PM
I like the brushed look, that also covers minor (future) scratches, and it was original like that.

although the shiny looks great too !

Glad your back at Rally, i like it !


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: vernimark on September 26, 2011, 12:31:08 AM
wow great


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Wil2000 on September 26, 2011, 02:55:48 PM
Like Etienne, I prefer the brushed effect, the shiny is nice on small areas, but all the control panel in shiny render would be a little too much bling bling.


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Superully on September 27, 2011, 09:35:00 PM
i'm really torn guys! i did some testing with the panel and the bolts which are "bling bling" and i don't like the combination of shiny bolts and brushed metal panel. additionally, the coin insert is "bling bling" as well. damn, if only i had two panels and could do both versions ...


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 27, 2011, 10:14:10 PM
put the bolts in your drill and apply sandpaper..  then you got brushed bolts  ;D

(http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small48536362.JPG)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: jinxz on February 03, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
regarding the text on the panel you can also look for someone with a vinyl cutter (like my Roland GX-24) and have them cut the text out of sticker vinyl. You peel the letters out, stick the negative sticker on the panel, use black spraypaint and peel the sticker off. Cheap and works great. I've done these letter on an oak surface : (http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8303/8004548033_de9f35c678.jpg)


Title: Re: [Roadtrip] It's not a race (anymore), it's a RALLY
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on February 03, 2013, 08:32:19 PM
Thats r(e)ally cool stuff Jinxz !

by the way, this topic continued here right ?

http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2265.0