Author Topic: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....  (Read 42988 times)

McVenco

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • www.amigascene.nl
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 11:35:06 AM »
Paula is the best soundchip. Period.  ;)
No arcade cab(s) yet, but happy owner of 2 Colecovisions, 2 Amigas and a pc running Mame.

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 12:50:16 PM »
No Amy......Ah damn....that never got from drawing board :)

Etienne, you even like the Crazy Kong sounds.......I mean.......

Etienne MacGyver

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 7611
  • The Netherlands
    • View Profile
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 03:15:42 PM »
No Amy......Ah damn....that never got from drawing board :)

Etienne, you even like the Crazy Kong sounds.......I mean.......

I do ! LOL  ;D ;D ;D

Little_Rabbit

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2014, 03:23:47 PM »
Hi,

Sorry for digging up this old debate, but as a HUGE fan of the ATARI 8 bits computer, I'm gonna add one more quality to the POKEY sound chip ;).

As said Level42, it has 4 channels, but more important, the 4 channels can do noise ! Where SID has 3 "music" channels and 1 "noise" channel, Pokey has 4 and it makes a great difference ! The same remark applies to the ATARI ST or Amstrad CPC who share the same sound chip (respectively Yamaha YM2149 or General Instrument AY-3-8910, which are the same ;) ) => only one noise channel for them too. So sad.

For music, I agree that SID can do fantastic sounds that Pokey could never do. OK. But for noise, such as engines, explosions, jet engines, etc., Pokey is fantastic because it can combine several noise channels together to make great sound effects.

Just listen the sound effects in Rescue on Fractalus (also known as "Behind Jaggy Lines") : the engine sounds are fantastic ! :)

There can be 4 channels for noise, and the configuration of each of them is pretty rich : such as several settings of the polynomial sequence that is used for the white noise !

Yes, POKEY is great :).
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 09:44:26 PM by Little_Rabbit »

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2014, 08:33:44 PM »
Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.

In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.

Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice. But after all, we now know that the ST was really a Commodore and the Amiga really an Atari ;)
And they did one absolutely brilliant and incredibly cheap (hey, it was the Tramiels calling the shots) move on the ST: investing a couple of pennies to give it a MIDI connection. They sold thens of thousands of STs just for that incredibly simple MIDI port :)

The one thing I keep hating about SID is that it sounds, sorry I don't know if that is the correct word, but it sounds "nasally" where the POKEY sounds much more "open" and clear.

Compare:
SID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utT2f2J-IP0

POKEY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZFvMecJmc

The SID sounds "fake" and like it has a cold ! I never figured out wether that was something of the chip itself or that Commodore (once again) cheaped out on the amplification electronics....

The POKEY sounds nice and open and clear compared. Yes the waveforms are simpler but I find it more pleasant to hear :)

(Nice side-story: I vividly remembering seeing the Ghostbusters intro at my cousin's the first time on a C64 and I definitely thought at that moment that the A8 could never do that......imagine how I felt when I showed my cousin the A8 version a couple of weeks later  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:53:54 PM by Level42 »

Tyrem

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 1762
    • View Profile
    • SK GameNatiX
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2014, 08:37:15 PM »
Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.

In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.

Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice.


and still jochen was doing amazing things with it. i was listening to unreleased stuff one or two years ago and it blew my mind.
Looking for Dragons Lair 1 or 2, Space Ace, Double Dragon, Robotron and yeah... a Shinobi would be cool, too!

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2014, 08:59:54 PM »
Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.

In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.

Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice.


and still jochen was doing amazing things with it. i was listening to unreleased stuff one or two years ago and it blew my mind.


Well....that seems to be true for all the hardware BITD (and maybe even now).
After lots and lots of years the programmers had learned to trick out the graphics and sound hardware to make it do thinks the hardware designers never even thought would be possible. This is true for both graphics and sound and on all hardware platforms. Look what the late 90s polish games look and sound like on the A8....when I sold my 600XL to get an ST in the mid 80's I had never dreamed the A8 could do that stuff....

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2014, 10:07:26 PM »
Two amazing new games from the (German) Abbuc yearly contest.

These guys are making magic IMHO !!!

First: RGB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbDx-JX3QM

More info here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/229321-rgb-a-game-for-the-abbuc-software-contest-2014/


Second: Dimo's Quest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4m6MRQbkfk&feature=youtu.be

This game is influenced by/a tribute to one of the best games ever on the Lynx: Chip's Challenge.

More info here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222265-abbuc-swc-2014-dimos-quest/

It never seizes to totally baffle me what these guys manage to trick out of this old hardware !!!!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2014, 10:17:26 PM by Level42 »

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2014, 12:56:49 AM »
And while we're talking about those great little machines......here's my Markplaats pick up of today.....Yep another one.....oops I did it again, but for some good reasons.

This unit looks a lot better than the one I already had. That one has a pretty bad name plate and cartridge doors. Also the protection cover of the PBI was missing on the back. Further I had one key failing (the H), maybe I can fix that, but I saw this one on Marktplaats and scored it for 20 Euro. If you ever bought a seperate POKEY (which this includes) you know this is a great price for the entire machine which is 100% working.

Now I regret that I didn't buy 4 4464 RAM ICs instead of the 2 I recently got on ebay. These two chips and a couple of wires turn the internal RAM to 64k so it is the same as an 800 XL.

I've been modded the first 600 XL further with a Stereo upgrade (with an extra POKEY) and modded the video output so that it has S-video out now, just like the 130XE, only this looks even better.

Final mod will be an internal mod to include a "RS-232" or SIO2PC port with just a single chip. Done this on the XE and has been working great for years. With the right software any PC or Mac can serve as 8 Floppy drives and a bunch of other stuff.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 12:59:37 AM by Level42 »

Little_Rabbit

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2014, 10:32:47 AM »
Hi !

Thanks for the links to the video ! They look great !! From link to link, I ended up on the Arsantica demo I didn't know :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY_YsoR11d8

the part at 3:00 is pretty nice and impressive !  :shock:

Nice catch for your 600 XL !! :-* It reminds me the sad discovery I did a few months ago. While I was preparing a few old machines for the Freeplay exhibition show I was participating to, I took my dear loved 800XL, the one I used in the eightees. It is in perfect shape, in its original box, etc. But what a shock when I plugged it in, and discovered it was not working anymore  :'(. I get a blank screen : it looks like Antic generates a blank video signal, but nothing else happens. I really have to look at it and repair it ! ^-

I also have 2 ATARI 800, and an ATARI 400 to repair among other ATARI stuff ;) !...

I never moded my ATARI 8 bits, I should try one day :) (I think I couldn't do it on my original 800XL, but on another one, why not).

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2014, 11:33:47 AM »
Should be easy to find the problem, chips are all socketed on the XL's......bless Atari Inc.
Atari Corp. (Tramiel era) quickly changed that of course :(

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2014, 12:13:18 PM »
Yeah, I'm keeping some of my systems original, like the XEGS and 800 PAL. No you really shouldn't mod your first 800XL. I sold my 600XL (and all other 8 bit stuff I had then) to get a 1040STfm. I regret it now though and I've never had the love for the ST like I did for the 8 bit machines.

I hacked in the SIO2PC interface into my 130XE maybe 10 years ago or so...it was the shit then and the first good use of a PC I had found so far ;) ;)
That was before SIO2SD and MyIDE carts etc.

Seriously looking into getting this by the way:

http://www.mega-hz.de/Angebote/THE!CART/THE!CART_EN.htm

I'm not really happy with the MyIDE I've got now. It's a great product (Developped by our friend Sijmen) no doubt about it, but it's a little bit too technical for me.
I am lazy when it comes to these kind of things. I just want a simple, fast and easy way to have as many games as possible on one device.
It also looks a lot better because the MyIDE has an IDE connector on top, on which there is an IDE to Compact Flash adapter and on top of that a Compact Flash card is inserted.
I also have many games not running from it, I have no idea why though.

What I really like about the The!Cart is that you can simply start typing (any part of) the name of the game you want to play instead of having to scroll through lists.

And........the Studio software runs on Windows, Linux and OSX and that I like a lot ! :)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 12:44:30 PM by Level42 »

johnsarcade

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 185
  • Mushroom Kingdom, USA
    • View Profile
    • John's Arcade
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2014, 03:45:51 PM »
....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.

The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....

No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:

http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU

Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !

What did I just watch?!?!?  ??? ??? ???

Etienne MacGyver

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 7611
  • The Netherlands
    • View Profile
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2014, 05:52:51 PM »
Boogie nights by lamers.

level42

  • ArcadeLifeStyler'
  • ***
  • Posts: 13555
  • Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !
    • View Profile
    • Arcade 42
Re: Atari 8 bit demo, unbelievable....
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2014, 06:24:34 PM »
....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.

The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....

No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:

http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU

Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !

What did I just watch?!?!?  ??? ??? ???

A demo. Never heard of demo's ? Demo's were programs that you simply watched and listened while they did all kind of amazing graphical (and audio) stuff that you first thought would be impossible on your Atari, C64, Amiga, ST or whatever your machine was at the moment. Basically you tried to have the latest and greatest demo's to show off to your friends who had competing systems so to "prove" your machine was better ;) :D

This demo runs on standard Atari 8-bit machines but it needs a memory upgrade (it requires 192k) but that is just for getting the data "ready" fast enough, basically it runs in the standard 64kRAM. Also, on the youtube video you can clearly hear the music is stereo which is of course not standard on the A8's.
But it's freaking easy and cheap to add it to your machine John:
http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=45

Oh and this demo detects if there is stereo available. If not it will still run but then with "just" mono sound I guess.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 06:27:53 PM by Level42 »