Author Topic: Former Temporary, now PERMANENT guest at my home: Gravitar !  (Read 22394 times)

level42

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Former Temporary, now PERMANENT guest at my home: Gravitar !
« on: March 06, 2010, 12:06:31 AM »
Well, while we were shifting cabs around a couple of cabs some weeks ago, I thought up a devious plan:

How about I'd offer Ckong to work on his Gravitar ? That would give me at least a couple of weeks to drool over, play with work on the machine ! ;D

There was a gentleman's deal between Ckong and me. An exchange of goods for working hours, a deal we're both happy with.

Anyway, of course Erik's Gravitar was working when we bought it. It was also working when we put it up in my kitchen. In first looks the monitor is nice, but there are some (small) issues that _can_ be improved.

First there was a bit of a shock: Of course I had to remove the monitor from the cab, and (esp. because it's not MY cab) I read the manual to check how to do it. Had to unlock something on the back, but that was already loose. Then I had to remove the monitor just like on a Centipede: open CP, remove glass and bezel, remove bolts and get out the monitor. Only this time I didn't have to remove the bolts because they weren't there ! Turned out we were _very_ lucky to transport the machine on the back !
Another good lesson learned, CHECK that everything is fixed before transporting a cab. No offense to Oli, I'm sure he was in the assumption that it was fixed.

The tinted bezel glass is always good as it always "hides" minor flaws. After some cleaning of the front the monitor looks like this:




It has some slight burn in of Gravitar so it's probably the original monitor still. Also there are some tiny burn-marks at weird spots (not the center), but all this is hardly noticeable at all when playing the game.



The issue's I noticed after some thorough testing (yes this included playing the game, but purely for analysis of course) are:

1) the convergence is not perfect. It looks like the center is OK, but we can get better edges with some metal strips.....problem is I'm out of them....will need to find a source for them ASAP.
2) the brightness seemed to not be entirely stable. I tried gently tapping on the neckboard and indeed I could see (at least the red) go dimmer and brighter at times. The conclusion is pretty easy: bad driver and bias pots. Plus maybe some poor solderings, as I've experienced those on another WG6100 before.
3) The image is a bit "jittery". This is very likely also caused by bad pots. But this time they're not on the monitor but on the PCB. In the vector area there are about 8 pots to regulate the image. If pots go bad in that area, it will influence the picture in horizontal and/or vertical way.

To solve problem 2) I bought some pots today (had to resort to my trusty electronics store in the area because RS didn't even have this size pots !?!?!)

The one's I got are Euro sized but they fit great with a tiny bit of bending the outer legs.

About bad pots. We all know the effect of a bad pot on a radio: crackling. You will here a crackling sound. Sometimes when you turn the volume up or down you will notice it even more. Exactly the same happens when pots get older on monitors, but the effect is different of course.

With the pots on the neck-board, they will have an effect on the brightness of the colors. So if you move the pots slightly (or _gently_ tap them) you will see the brightness of one or more color change. It's like the crackling sound, but this time it's visible not audible. This shouldn't happen of course.

Of course you could try to use some contact spray on the pots but I'm strongly against it. IF it works, it's only temporary. The issue is that the pot has probably been on one setting for it's entire life. This causes the bad spot to be _exactly_ at the "correct" setting of that pot. You won't fix that with any spray. Replacing the pots is the only good solution.

Now, I needed 500 Ohms and 15K pots. But 15K is not in the E-series we use over here. Lukely those were the bias pots and one side of the pot goes to ground, so it wasn't that important. I bought 25k (or is it 20k?) instead. Note that it's not ALWAYS possible to do this, but it was in this case...

When replacing the pots, I carefully measured each one of them, to be able to "copy" the settings to the new pots. This saved me from having to completely re-adjust the colors, and it worked out great !

Here's the new (left) and old pots:



Even though I double-checked everything I'm always still anxious when powering it up again, but to my relief the normal picture came up. I adjusted the red a bit, because it was a bit too weak compared to the blue and green. I tried _gently_ tapping the neckboard again (I use the "rubbery"  back of my screwdrivers for this) and this time the color stayed fixed. So, issue 2) is solved !

I also had to resolder a wire on the neckboard: I had taken the neckboard from the tube 3 or 4 times, and one wire simply broke off. This shows that age is doing bad things on these old machines ;) Any way, stripped the wire and resoldered. I of course checked all the other wires but they were still OK.

The broken wire (already newly stripped):


I ordered the pots for the PCB from RS plus also caps for the monitor. This time I decided to go with high quality Panasonic caps, 105 degree versions. Erik said the game deserved the best, so it gets the best.

Have to wait for those parts to arrive now. So let's see if I can get my high-score up a bit.....(I'm at 2nd spot now, but I doubt I will ever reach the first spot !).

Here's the monitor, it's been running happily for about an hour now...it's good to be able to test it like that on the back side :D






Erik will also order an LV2000 to replace the Low Voltage section of the WG. There already have been some modifications made, but I'd like to go save with one of the LV2000's.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 08:25:04 PM by Level42 »

Superully

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 08:07:58 AM »
wonderful job, andré! and an interesting write-up. even i caught up on some of the things you wrote  ;). and as always: nice to see how your helping fellow "arcadians" out.  :-*
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 09:01:17 AM by Superully »
all i need is ... PONG - and a select few others: TOUCH ME, DRAGON'S LAIR, JOUST, ROBOTRON, MR DO, SAN FRANCISCO RUSH THE ROCK!!!

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 08:38:57 AM »

Superully

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2010, 09:01:55 AM »
why are you "huh-ing"?  ;) ;) ;)
all i need is ... PONG - and a select few others: TOUCH ME, DRAGON'S LAIR, JOUST, ROBOTRON, MR DO, SAN FRANCISCO RUSH THE ROCK!!!

ckong

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2010, 10:35:55 PM »
André, my friend, this is really interesting to read. I know that we made an agreement, and you should know that I'm very glad that you are doing this for me. Fortunately I know that you enjoy doing technical work on games  :)

We (I mean, I) were very lucky with the loose monitor. I'm sure that Oliver will also be as surprised as us if he reads this. He didn't know this, I'm sure of that.

And please, do as much test-gaming as you want  :D

About the metal strips, couldn't you use a few of the spare ones which I got with the Star wars cockpit? They are in a cartboard box in the cockpit.

Edit: I completely forgot about the LV2000, will order it tomorrow  :oops:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 10:55:21 PM by ckong »

ckong

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 01:00:29 PM »
LV2000 ordered  :)

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 11:50:39 PM »
Replaced 6 of the 8 pots on the game PCB. I'm actually not sure if it helped for the jittering. It seems less, but it's still there. I'm getting the feeling this might be some kind of interference.

I'll do the last two pots tomorrow. It's not a waste of time because the pots were pretty "jumpy" when trying to adjust them and they're nice and smooth now.

I also received the Panasonic 105 degr. caps for the WG6100.

Etienne MacGyver

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 06:44:41 AM »
maybe shield some wires as a expiriment against interference ?

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 07:23:03 AM »
Mmmm, the problem is how and which. And it's probably not the wires.
The wires that carry video signals are all twisted to prevent interference.

It could still be a cap problem. Or maybe the LV2000 will ease it out.
You know, most people probably wouldn't even notice it, it's really very minor only, and (as Erik knows) there's a chance that I can't fix it. This (like almost all repairs) is a best effort try only.

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 09:47:28 PM »
Progress !!!!

Today, wife away for the day, son to a friend, aaaahhhhhh I've got all the time and space and no-one around to bother me !

SO, let's get some work done !

I first installed the caps. It's still amazing to see how small the modern caps are today:
Left old, right new. Yes same Farads, some voltage !


The new big two caps on the deflection board. The old one's were about twice as high...
To the bottom left you still see an old cap. There are two of those in the low voltage section. I left them there because when installing the LV2000 they will need to be removed completely anyway....


There are surprising few elco's (electrolytic caps) on the deflection board. There were two more that I hadn't seen on the other WG6100 I worked on, but there are different revisions...turned out those caps are bipolar. Guess I'll leave them as these are pretty hard to find.

The HV board has the most caps. It's a pain to reach the HV-PCB, you need to remove the cage from the frame and then remove the top metal-screen. The problem is that they of course used non-metric bolts AND they used the kind you can't operate with a screw driver. There's a non-metric tool set on it's way from the US but seems to be stuck at customs (?!?!) so I had to use some pliers to get everything loose:


New caps installed, just need to clip the legs:


Yes the caps are a lot smaller ;D Had to replace one axial cap with a radial, no big deal.


Even though I check my work 3 times it's still a tense moment to power it back up again. I did it in a couple of steps so that IF anything went wrong, I'd not have to search long to find WHERE it went wrong.
But nothing went wrong ! Gotta love the moving logo:


After that it was running through the test-screens. First I thought the jitter was still there completely, but I was test-running it with the metal screen removed and it is well known that this is bad for the deflection and causes jitter. After re-installing I must say the jitter has improved. Must be the caps, but there is still a some jitter to see...

I one re-adjuste everything, brightness, colors, focus.

Then there was still the convergence to be done.
I went to the storage to pick up some strips that Erik got with the SW cockpit. I tried getting it better using these strips, but it seems they are not very "powerful". May be the used metal. They look self-made, maybe that's the cause ?

Anyway, I decided to try to get it better by using the convergence controls on the neck and YES this was the way to go !!!
I had to break the glue on the magnetic rings to set it so it was definitely not set too well at the factory :D

Within moments I had almost a perfect convergence. And there was only 1 metal strip to make it just that one step better in one corner. It's not 100% perfect, but it's as perfect as you can desire to get it on a 30 year old CRT IMHO.

I reinstalled the monitor and it was a joy to see how much it improved already. I really hope the LV2000 will improve the jitter even more because that's the only thing left that annoys me a bit.

But I'm really pleased and I'm sure Erik will be too. Of course I had to do some test-playing and well, test-playing seems the time to break hi-scores:




he-he-he-he, Erik that gives you something to chew on when you get it home. That is if I don't improve it a bit more ;)

I must say I can do the first maze-planet pretty easily now, then do one "normal" planet on the 2nd level. When I completed that I did the maze-planet again and survived through it ! Then I actually got pretty far on the "star" planet on the 3rd level but JUST didn't complete it. But not too shabby IMHO :D

SO, now it's waiting for the LV2000, install that and it's ready !

I posted a question about the jitter on the Vector e-mail list, maybe I'll get some good tips...

ckong

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 10:30:25 PM »
 :spaceace: :spaceace:

Great work André, I'm very, very happy with the result  ;D ;D

Look how much better above picture is than this one:



I am impressed.

The LV2000 was shipped last wednesday, I hope that it will be here very soon.

About your high score:  :o :o I hope that you do know that most players find it almost impossible to survive the first maze planet, and you say that it's easy!  Chapeau.  I will need a very long time to top your score. Maybe I will also have to call it test-playing  :lol:

Edit: what is the difference between pilot list and co pilot list?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 10:36:46 PM by ckong »

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 11:27:20 PM »
Uhm. well that's a pretty cool feature of Gravitar.

When there's no serious (only the default) hi-scores it says:

FLUNKEY LIST

When there's some reasonable scores it changes to COPILOT LIST.

Once you get REAL scores it goes to PILOT LIST.

As you can see there was a really hi-score when the machine arrived (in the 80000). Not sure if Oliver scored that but, and I swear on everything that is holy for me, but I accidentally deleted the hi-scores when I tried to go into test-mode at one time.....
Pretty stupid really....  :oops: :oops:

The picture comparison isn't really fair because one was made at day time, the other at night time, but indeed you can already see the improvement. It's even better in real life.

Game has been running fine for the entire night. I got some tips on the jitter that I will check out (f.i. replacing the caps around the voltage regulators on the vector section on the game PCB.)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 11:30:53 PM by Level42 »

ckong

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 11:50:04 PM »
but I accidentally deleted the hi-scores when I tried to go into test-mode at one time.....
Pretty stupid really....  :oops: :oops:

Aha, I can delete your high score when it is at my place? That's a relief  :lol:

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 11:51:56 PM »
Sure you can.

But you can't delete the pics here  ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Temporary guest at my home: Gravitar !
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2010, 01:26:14 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHVtay_nTgA

Looks a bit bleach....but just to give an idea....