Author Topic: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?  (Read 9352 times)

Q*ris

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Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« on: July 14, 2012, 01:11:43 AM »
You now I'm not a tecchie at all so I'm probably going to ask stupid questions here, please be indulgent...

Here's my attempt to fix a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB with the tremendous help of my friend "4l4in" AKA the technigician.
He has the tools, the knowledge, the patience to explain me even the basics and he agreed to help me on this mission.
Thank you, thank you for that, buddy!

First of all, you have to know there are 2 similar boards involved.
Let's call them "Oxford" and "Lancaster" which are roughly the names of the places where I picked them up. ::)

Also note that we doubled check the voltages and they are correct (+5,+12,-5V measured from the board).

Here's the log of where we are (stuck) at the moment.
Any help or suggestions are welcome.

Lancaster PCB:
When plugged is showing only 2 flashing dashes on the screen.
Checked with an oscilloscope, the processor and memories seem OK.
No sound.

When checking the original ROMs, they seem defectives.
So we swapped them with the eproms from the Oxford board.
Game starts, displays scores and targets, then offers to select either 1 or 2 players.
When I start the game, the game screens start to appear and then the game resets.
Credits are stuck on 40.

We decided to program a set of EPROMS to try it.
We programmed the set with the ROMs from MAME "invaders.zip".
Didn't work at all.

We then compared the original ROMs with what was available on the internet and found out that what we needed was the "Space Invaders (TV Version)" ROMset called sitv.zip
After a close check it appeared that our original ROMS had the exact same content as that set so the problem doesn't come from the ROMs.
"Fausse route" as we say :(

So, so far we still have our problem: game keeps on resetting after attract screen.

When launching the selftest mode, it stops at the RAMs.
Found on the net that the test mode displays which RAM is defective using a code from "1 to 8" and from "A to H".
Amongst the garbled screen we could see a letter G displayed in the middle of the screen.
We then replaced the 7th RAM.
Selftest is now OK.
Text now displays fine on the screen.
Unfortunately as soon as an invaders appears on the screen, game resets itself…
As long as it's only displaying text everything seems OK.
to be continued...


Oxford PCB:
Doesn't start at all.
Found an IC defective that was preventing the synchonisation of the RAMS.
Replaced the IC.
Now we can launch the selftest procedure.
It says that RAMs are OK and you can hear various sounds.
The game is stuck at the first screen.
Graphics in test mode are OK but are garbled in game mode.
to be continued...

« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 08:55:07 AM by chrischris »

Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 01:12:48 AM »
What do you think of the idea of trying to burn a set of EPROMS with another game compatible with this board, just to check?
One of these games maybe: Jatre Specter, Lunar Rescue, Space Laser, Balloon Bomber, Galaxy Wars, Super Earth Invasion.
Would that be possible?

Also could it be possible that we still have a bad RAM somewhere and that the selftest didn't show it?

PaulSwan

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 01:18:53 AM »
There's a test ROM for Space Invaders that may help:

http://outerworldarcade.com/arcade/space_invaders/space_invaders_test_rom.html

Regards,

Paul.
ZZZ

Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 01:21:47 AM »
Many thanks Paul, I will go back to "the lab" next week so I'll definitely try that and let you know!

Etienne MacGyver

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 01:13:07 PM »
I am sorry buddy, this is beyond my knowledge..

Would love to help though, just dont know how  ;D

Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 11:13:35 PM »
Thanks Etienne and to tell you the truth, this is far beyond my knowledge too  ;)

Here are the (rather OK) weather report of the day for both Oxford and Lancaster:

Found a faulty 7442 circuit on the Oxford board.
Replaced it and now both Lancaster and Oxford cards are showing the same symptoms: continous resets.

...mmmh, 2 cards with the exact same problem can't really be a coincidence, can it ?...
Voltage or software problem maybe?

-For the voltage route: we tried to use thicker wires for the 5V to reduce the tension loss due to the 2A consumption (we had to feed 5,4V to actually have 5V on the board) but it didn't change anything  :-\
-For the software route: we searched the internet to find the ROMs for another game that would be compatible with an "L" Shaped board but couldn't find anything.  :-\ (suggestions?)
-The ROM3 seemed to be dead, but the other ones seemed OK and we wanted to test them again.
As you know we already downloaded the ROMset called sitv.zip and burned it on a set of EPROMS.
Originally the board had ROMs type 9316 and they have a different pinning than the EPROMS 2516 (you can make the board use either type of memory by changing a jumper).
As it's not originally possible to use the 2 types of memories on the same board at the same time, super 4l4in had to make a special interface to make it work (ROMS and EPROMs together).
We tried various combinations and by putting the original ROM n°4 with EPROMS N°1,2 and 3...
THE GAME STARTED!  :spaceace:
So there was a problem with the EPROM n°4 that we found on the internet (the ROMset called sitv.zip).
Any idea what went wrong?
Anyway I'll save the content of the original ROM n°4 on my computer because it's the key to make it all work apparently.

Also the story is not 100% over because we still have some sound issues (otherwise that would have been too easy), but like I always say that should be a quick fix (I hope). ::)
EDIT: found good info on the SI sounds here: http://www.brentradio.com/images/SpaceInvaders/si_sound.htm
 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 11:36:55 PM by chrischris »

level42

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 12:17:54 AM »
I have zero experience with SI hardware but did you measure if the power supply is OK ? I know you measured the DC voltages but if you have any base caps in the power supply you can have AC voltage riding on top of the DC voltage.

So, measure the supply voltages with a GOOD DVM in AC setting.

Of course you have the nice Russian cap tester so maybe you have tested the caps with that already ?

Remeber to discharge the large ones first before measuring....

About the ROMs that were originally on the PCB, did you try to ID them with ROMIDENT ?
http://romident.coinopflorida.com/


Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 12:27:38 AM »
Thanks for the input, Dre!
For the latest tests we used a test bench with a lab power supply that you can tune to +5,+12,-5V and a monitor so didn't try it in the cab today.
About Romident I just heard of it yesterday (this is all quite new to me) so I'll give it a try too, excellent suggestion. ;)

Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 05:19:01 PM »
About the sound problems, it turns out I need a bunch of LM3900 chips and at least one SN7417.
Any idea where I could buy that?
Any help much appreciated, SI must be fully working for Eurocade 2012 :!:


Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 07:13:09 AM »
Thanks a lot Andreas, unfortunately it's not possible for me this year  :'( :'(

Copied ROM n°4 on a new EPROM, fixed some sounds (some are still missing) and put everything back in the cab aaaaaaand...


(click the pic for some alien blasting video)

Also ordered all the parts to completely fix both boards, everything should be here in 15 days, stay tuned!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 07:14:47 AM by chrischris »

Etienne MacGyver

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2012, 07:39:23 AM »
Great !
At least it is working and play-able !
Good job ! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

Q*ris

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2012, 09:53:41 AM »
Thanks, the dinosaur is back to life (almost).
Don't you just love the sweet squeeky sound of the buttons?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:55:36 PM by chrischris »

kroustibat

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Re: Wanna help fixing a TAITO Space Invaders "L" Shaped PCB?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2012, 01:25:32 PM »
great job !!