Helping out in the hobby.....or business ?

[level42]

This is an open message to all forum members.

In the recent months I have found myself working on lots of mostly monitor stuff. Most of that was done for free or close to free, in some cases a decent deal was made about costs.

In practical sense, there is NO way to charge the hours invested 1:1 because it would really get very expensive.

I've _ALSO_ had clear arrangements where, f.i., I did work for someone in return for a cabinet.

As far as I know, at this moment, I have returned all the promised work for those arrangements and I'm going to be honest:

I will work on (mostly) vector monitor stuff still, but I want some money in return. IMHO this is simply fair.
Yes this is my hobby, but I can't keep going on investing hours in other's people stuff, while my own stuff keeps laying around unworked.

Sometimes I was even given a bag with boards in them with the question "hey can you have a look"...and I'm not business man enough to immediately reply NO, unless you pay x or y.

No I'm NOT about chasing large sums of money, but there is a limit somewhere.

Again, to ALL things I've done in the past, I was happy to help, and I've gotten stuff or help in return and in some cases some money.

But from now on, whenever I am going to help anyway, we make a price first.

I hope everyone will understand.

Thanks.

[Luigi]

I agree!

This hobby is all about give and take. And if one has nothing (other work, a cab, spare parts etc.) to give in return, the least he should give is a decent amount of money.

[kos71]

I start since  few month to think the same way .
I spend generally more time repairing machine from others than mine . The problem sometime with free manwork is that people always  abuse of it . And sometime it even seems that it is normal that you ll help  but in returns you never get anything .By asking for money you will limit it .

[Etienne MacGyver]

I totally understand your point.

I have had the same in the past computer repair related.

Once people know you're handy in something and like to do it, people assume its just fine to drop a bunch of work and that all is fine.

i stopped with that, because it needs to stay fun.

once i was at the point that there where 5 or 6 laptops in que, and was mostly busy with that instead of things i needed to do for myself.

i finished that, and like you do now, i just charge by hour when i do a re-install (because thats the most you get with "home users")

so i think its totally understandable and if people want to have something fixed by you, they have to pay your price (and i know from experience that many time you cannot calculate all the hours, because thats not worth it in pc land)

i still do some repairs now and then, but on my terms, just like you are going to do now, so yeah i understand you completely.

[Tyrem]

I am absolutely fine with that but I would never expect free repairs anyway if I would ask you to help me out.

[Q*ris]

Regarding this hobby, I never assume the repairs are free when I ask for help.
I always offer to pay or trade.

As a graphic designer I'm constantly asked to layout logos and business cards and baby announcement cards or whatever by "friends of friends", often, people would show up with a bottle of wine and assume it's fine.
Because it's "what I like to do"...
In reality, I got totally burned out because of those small jobs eating all of my free time and it's only now that I'm 40 that I learned to say no or to ask the right price.

[Overkilll]

I am absolutely fine with that but I would never expect free repairs anyway if I would ask you to help me out.

[vernimark]

That's a pity.
I thought to kidnap you, lock you in the room with all stuff to repair and waiting something like that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFfoPMUNatU

from 32:00 to 35:16 and from 40:35

[Wurstkopp]

I am absolutely fine with that but I would never expect free repairs anyway if I would ask you to help me out.

#3

[ckong]

It makes perfectly sense IMO.  But be aware that if you make a bit of a business of it,  that people also are going to expect guarantee etc.  Not that this would be a problem for you,  your repair work is always top notch,  but be prepared. 

And try to give price estimates upfront,  to prevent nasty surprises afterwards.

With a bit of luck I will have some vector repair work for you on short term.   

[Tyrem]

It makes perfectly sense IMO.  But be aware that if you make a bit of a business of it,  that people also are going to expect guarantee etc.  Not that this would be a problem for you,  your repair work is always top notch,  but be prepared. 

And try to give price estimates upfront,  to prevent nasty surprises afterwards.

With a bit of luck I will have some vector repair work for you on short term.   

honestly... we all know what we are dealing with. i know that i can not expect guarantee when it comes down to old ctrs and boards.

[Belike]

Absolutely fair point, never was and never will be a problem paying for somebody's exhausting work, especially if he has a family and a lot of other jobs to do. 

[speleo_de]

It makes perfectly sense IMO.  But be aware that if you make a bit of a business of it,  that people also are going to expect guarantee etc.  ...

And try to give price estimates upfront,  to prevent nasty surprises afterwards.

I am also doing repairs for almost all original Arcade PCB's until 1985 as well as Vector Monitors. Here's my view...

When repairing 30-40 year old equipment, I can (and do) give a guarantee exactly on the parts exchanged and my workmanship, e.g. quality of de-soldering / soldering - nothing else. I can not guarantee parts that are that old, I can't see inside and can't judge on the old soldering etc...

Estimate prices is a difficult thing, as the troubleshooting is eating most of the time, and you almost never know, how much time that will take. Also for PCBs with an unknown history there may be multiples problem, that you do not always recognize when the PCB is completely dead. I usually agree with the customer upfront an upper limit in Euro that is relatively high. Reaching that limit makes me call the customer and discuss if an extension makes sense. If not, I will stop and the customer just pays shipping back. It doesn't happen too often, but it does.

[atarimania]

speleo_de -> I think that it's a good idea (range of price), it's almost impossible to guarantee these old PCB .

Andre -> I think that you're right

[level42]

Big thanks to all for your understanding and again, I've done the work I've done so far with love and almost always in a good agreement.

Thing is exactly what Andreas' point is.

The "tech" in me wants to know WHY I cant find some issues but in the meantime you fall into the trap of investing loads of hours, hours that you can never reasonably get back in a monetary or other form.

I have been working on my Ms.Pac Man CP yesterday, spray painting and installing the CPO....simple things, but this is something I had been putting off for about a year now ! I jut checked the pictures of when I installed the side-art and kick-art and was in shock to see that it was over a year ago ! I really enjoyed doing this work and I really want to focus on my own machines for a while now. If anyone can help me in any form so we can exchange favors that is of course great too, but the pracice of everyday life is that it is usually impossible because we all live so far apart.

I will follow Andreas' ideas about "warranty" and also agreeing a price range before any work is accepted.

Thanks friends