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Author Topic: Need heating for my gameroom so I'm going to buy.....an airco !  (Read 5850 times)
Level42
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« on: October 23, 2010, 08:20:16 PM »


Yes.

The original plan was to connect my home's central heating system to a radiator in the gameroom. We already put a large pipe in the ground for that.

However, after having thought about it some more AND talking with my brother I decided for another option....

The drawbacks of installing a radiator in the gameroom:
1) (and probably most important) It will only heat when the CH in my home is "on". That means it will follow the clock-thermostat in my living room. Which is not really what I want. I want a reasonable constant temperature in the gameroom. Even when we're not at home (so when the thermostat is not heating). Let's say I want a steady temp of about 15-16 degr. celsius to keep the cabs comfy.
2) digging up the pipe under my home.....not something I am _really_ longing for
3) no way of cooling the gameroom in summer time
4) lot of installation work by a pro (my neighbor is a pro, but still....he won't do it for free)

Now, there are of course electrical alternatives, but direct electric or oil-filled radiators are huge energy consumers.

Discussing these issues my bro suggested getting an airco that can also heat.
I immediately said that that would be consuming way too much energy but he said that most people make this thinking error.
He explained that the airco is really a "heatpump". It takes out the heat of one area and transports it to the other area (outside normally).
Reversible arco's heat in the opposite direction. They take out "heat" out of the surrounding air and pumps it into the room. This is consideralby more energy efficient than any other type of electrical heating and in fact it can compete with gas-operated heating. In fact he told me he was looking into heating large DIY stores with just this idea.

Also: electricity is cheaper than gas today.

So I've been looking around and airco's are pretty cheap these days. Since the gameroom is relatively small, I also will need just a small unit. The one I will be using will eat up about 800W. The cooling/heating capacity is about 2600 Watts though !
Since there is temp. regulation, the unit will not be on for long periods to keep the room at temperature, the VERY good insulation I used for the gameroom will help a lot too......

Also there are some more advantages for the airco:
-of course COOLING IN SUMMER !!! That's a brilliant and much welcomed plus Smiley
-giving the room a good dry air....no humidity !!!
-pretty easy to install, that is, no digging under my house... All the rest looks do-able. I'm thinking about putting the (small) either on top of the roof of the gameroom or on the lower left front so I can hide it behind some plants or something....

I found a new system for just €250.- ! with (more than) enough capacity for the gameroom.

Oh and the "noise"....the inside unit produces only 29 dB, outside just 39dB. I often do sound-level measurements for the fire alarm systems and I also have to measure with the sirens off and a REALLY well insulated and quite (completely quite) room measures at about 35 dB so....the units are VERY quite....

Here's the airco I'm planning on getting: http://link.marktplaats.nl/389170935
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 08:26:42 PM by Level42 » Logged

ckong
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 08:37:08 PM »

This could be a very interesting topic becaue I am also still considering which heating system I will install in my gameroom. At first I was (and perhaps still are) going for a floor heating system, but I'm looking into  alternatives too.

And I hadn't thought about a reversable airco yet. You mention that such an airco can take the heat from outside and bring it in the gameroom. But what if it is (freezing) cold outside? How do you then get a tempearature of 15 or 16 degrees in your gameroom?

An alternative I'm thinking about is installing one or two infrared heating panels at the ceiling of the gameroom. Until so far I heard only pro's for this kind of heating (quick, comfortable, good looking and easy to install) and no cons. But I can't get good answers from people regarding electricity usage.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 08:43:10 PM by ckong » Logged
Level42
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2010, 09:41:24 PM »


And I hadn't thought about a reversable airco yet. You mention that such an airco can take the heat from outside and bring it in the gameroom. But what if it is (freezing) cold outside? How do you then get a tempearature of 15 or 16 degrees in your gameroom?

Well.....


Quote:
This type of technology really shines in winter conditions, too, when running costs for a reverse cycle airconditioner can be as low as one third of those for portable heaters or panel convectors. As one industry expert explained to gadgetguy: When you use a heat pump or reverse cycle unit in heating mode, you are using electricity to move heat that already exists from outside your home to inside. It might be cold outside but heat or energy is still present, and can be cost effectively moved inside. Heat pumps require about one third of the electricity to move heat as an electric element heater requires to generate it.
Unquote

from here:
http://coolexcooling.com/2008/04/20/reverse-cycle-airconditioning-buyers-guide/

more theory here:

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airconditioning#Toepassingen

This says that even with moderate freezing temperatures (below 0 degr. Celsius) it is still possible to heat. (Remember, as long as the temperature is not near the Absolute Zero point (-276 degr. Celsius) there is _still_ "heat" in the air. We humans think different because we like 20 degr. but this is all relative of course.

But yes, the efficieny of course becomes less when there are more extreme temps. This is also when the system is cooling....but still, a 27 degr. inside temp is better than 35 outside (and don't forget the lack of humidity which may even be more important in our damp summers).

I do think I will add some white gravel on my roof....that'll probably reflect some more sunlight in the summertime than the black roofing does now...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 09:44:35 PM by Level42 » Logged

Blanka
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 10:24:07 AM »

Please note that decibel numbers on air-conditioning units are always "rose scent and moon shine". Just at 10-15 db to the numbers in brochures to start with. That is the increase in volume due to real world use compared to testing facilities.  Grin
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DarthNuno
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 12:10:46 PM »

This gonna be an interesting topic for me, because I didn't think about how to heat my new game room yet... I'll follow this topic with great interest  Cool
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Level42
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 12:13:01 PM »

Please note that decibel numbers on air-conditioning units are always "rose scent and moon shine". Just at 10-15 db to the numbers in brochures to start with. That is the increase in volume due to real world use compared to testing facilities.  Grin
Yes of course, but at least I can show the brochure to the neighbors Wink

I'll do a measurement once installed OK ?

Smiley

Don't worry....I am the worst "victim" of the noise myself because we sleep on the side of the house facing the gameroom....so _I_ don't want any noise either...
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Blanka
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 12:43:02 PM »

I think an airco is really nice if it dehumidifies during cold periods too.
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 01:21:58 PM »

Leve42: how many m3 (not m2) the build are?
I'll ask because I have a conditionar sistem (only cold), and on a room of 64 m3, I need to use a 12000but unit.
The previous conditionar is a 9000but unit and it take a lot of time to put down a couple of greades ( leaving the sistem alwais on day/night).
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Level42
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 09:13:49 PM »

Yes 64m3 is too large for 9000but.

According to the table (of the units I'm looking at) 9000BTU/h = 60m3 and 12000 BTU/h=88m3.

My entire shed is 7x3x2.5 meters so 52.5 m3. However, a section is used as storage area which doesn't need to be heated so my space will be even less than that so the 9000BTU/h unit should be sufficient for both cooling and heating.

Also, how well is your room insulated ? I used 7cm, thick rockwool plates all over and the roof is very well insulated as well. Even the concrete floor and foundation are insulated by the styrofoam forms that the concrete was poured in.

So, all in all the airco should have an "easy" job...of course in winter time the heating of any running cabs will help a little, but in summer it will not help at all, but anyway, it will stay much better then outside, especially since we always have very humid heat periods here, never "dry" like in southern Europe..
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 09:22:36 PM »

Mmm, I just checked again, and that Evercool unit is supposed to be able to handle 85m3 at 9000BUT/h. I don't really trust that number though, since an airco that is completely the same built (Chigo) is specified with the numbers I mentioned above.
So....who is telling the truth Wink

Whichever way, it will be sufficient...

The only thing that worries me is that according to some people these units are 100% DIY (so you do not have to vacuum the leads before starting up the unit) and others say it is best to DO vacuum them first.

Normally these leads are "empty" so filled with air and thus moisture. This would harm the airco over time. So normally they pump out the air before starting up but on these DIY units the leads are pre-filled with cooling fluid and (in theory) are connected without any air inside....

I've sent a mail to the seller because he indicates this must be done to get the guarantee...
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 10:44:02 PM »

Sorry to stirr up this old toppic, but after reading i'm too curious how this ended.

@Level42 - did you go for the airco/heat combo or decide something else?
@Ckong and Darthnuno - what did you decide?

I 'm trying to change my small garage into a gameroom and have the same question. how to heat the room. (single layer wall garage alongside my house)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 01:11:29 AM by Reboot » Logged
Level42
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 11:13:02 PM »

Not yet....
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 01:45:41 AM »

To bad, would have been nice to know if on paper a good idea turned out to be good in real life with 2 year experience.  Smiley

The temp in my garage was in december between 5-10 C. To cold for cabs? not nice for people to be, for sure, especially because of the draft comming from the big garage door.
Red here that humidity is bad also.

Making a wall to divide the garage into a small storage room with the big garage door with draft and the rest will be the gameroom. Hopefully the wall with smaller normal door will keep the draft outside de gameroom part.

Is it really necessary for the single layer brick walls to be isolated or place a 2nd layer? Have red something here on the forum about it i think in one of the building room topic. Wooden single walls no problem but brick walls must not be single when building a garage/room. Can someone enlighten me about this?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 02:00:38 AM by Reboot » Logged
Muerto
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 08:44:29 AM »

Itīs not an option in you case, unless you want to hammer up the floor, but i have floor heating, and it has itīs own thermostat. Nice 15-18 degrees out there atm, and the heat are spread evenly....
Cant remember if you allraedy put in your concrete floor Erik??
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Level42
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 09:47:35 AM »

I'm still using my oil-filled electrical heater that I bought temporarily. Yes it increased my electrical bill a bit, but not insanely (maybe 50 Euro or so, it's hard to really know because use always fluctuates of course).

I don't think the temperature itself is a problem, moist is much more an issue. And if the temperature gets too low, moist always automatically sets in....

I try to keep the temp in my gameroom at around 15 degrees.

My plan is still to make a pipe from my central heating system of my home to the gameroom, and then any additional heating (if necessary) could be handled by an alternate heat source, airco is still my idea for that. However, I'm still worried about the noise issue...
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