Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: Superully on September 11, 2009, 03:45:23 PM
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as if i didn't have enough restoration projects i'm working on, i've decided to bring up centipede "in da house". i won't be working on it wholeheartedly for now, but in between i might have a look at it :). i had a first look yesterday and realized something which i had never realized consciously before: the odd placement of the fire button. i've read that the designer's changed this shortly before rolling the game out into the arcades because it would be more comfortable to rest your whole hand on the panel. if you look at the panel, there is a perfect spot in the left mushroom just below its current position. hell :twisted:, there are even "white rays of light" where it should go!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2513/3909697500_ed5f668090_o.jpg)
i've been thinking about the following (and all those people who are left-handed like i am might understand me): move the fire button down into the left mushroom, move the trackball left into the middle mushroom and create another hole for a second fire button (for the left-handed people) in the right mushroom. of course, this would mean
(a) filling a lot of holes in the metal control panel - never done that before
(b) drilling three new holes into the metal control panel - never done that before either
(c) editing a vector file of the overlay so that there are also "rays of white light" in the right mushroom. does anyone have the vector file?
it would then look like this:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2503/3908953049_5709cd1b7e_o.jpg)
what do you think? looks original, doesn't it? ;)
question to the centipede owners: if i took that route, would the game still be playable as well as it is now or would be distance between trackball and fire buttons be too short?
one more thing: this "changing the control panel setup" only came to my mind recently, but i've already ordered the light blue european-style overlay (thx for that info, andré) from mamemarquees.com (imho the only shop carrying that overlay). in fact, i've ordered two, one for myself and one for an arcade friend of mine. both my friend and andré have installed their new cpos and you can see on both of them that there is a placement mistake on the overlay. the lower screw of the trackball should be in the middle of the right mushroom, but in fact it is not. have a look at the pics of the two refurbished panels. i think it looks completely out of place and distracts a lot - am i "too pussy" about it :P we all pay good money for those repoductions and i think they should at least be accurate.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3909674870_c657f0f20d_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3908892607_75580ca762_b.jpg)
i've written an email to the seller, let's see what he has to say!
enough for now - your turn! ;D
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hey ully!
Interisting!, but i think if the fire button is in the left mushroom, it will be in the way if you have to move from right to left quickly...
even worse if the trackball is in the middle mushroom, with a fire button on both sides of it... just my oppinion... :)
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that's what i would like to find out. perhaps i should build a simple wooden panel with exactly that kind of trackball / button setup and play a few rounds ...
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thats always the way to find out
trial & error ;D
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that's what i would like to find out. perhaps i should build a simple wooden panel with exactly that kind of trackball / button setup and play a few rounds ...
You may find that you like your own custom control panel, (for lefties) and keep it that way and put the stock one away, just in case... ;D
Great Idea :D
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check http://vectorlib.free.fr there is some centipede CPO vecto files floating over there :D
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Hate to shatter your dreams Ully but that design you propose will definitely not work.
The trackball is WAY too close to the buttons that way. Believe me, you need LOTS of room around that trackball when playing Centi.
The reason why they moved the button up is very true and you will experience it when playing. Even worse: they should have moved the trackball up too, but that was physically impossible. When playing I get tired on the right hand because of the lack of support in front of the trackball.
IMHO they should have made the CP much deeper, that way they could have solved the issues.
About you being left-handed, think about this: there's loads of games where I would want the controls reversed. F.I. DK., Galaxian. I've often thought about what were the reasons for the designers to create the controls as they are.
Whichever way you look at it, the majority of people is right-handed. You'd assume that f.i. a joystick control like on DK is more important than the jump button (pressing it is a much simpler action then steering the (clumsy) joystick. So, you'd assume they would have put the joystick right and the jump button left. Maybe they hoped that the player had a bigger challenge (=shorter play time = more coins) that way ?
For a game like Galaxian, you could say that the actual (precisely timed) firing is more important than the simple left-right movement of the ship and so the set-up of joystick left is pretty "logical".
Anyway, it's something you simply have to learn to live with, some controls will be reversed to what you'd prefer. I think there were players even crossing there hands on some games.
By the way, I noticed small color differences in the Mamemarquees.com cpo (which is probably from "the" collection) and mailed them about it. I wonder if he changed it. I never actually noticed the bolt placing. Weird. And thanks, now I'll never forget ;););)
Still, I prefer the matching of the blue's of the bezel and CPO above the other things.
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Hate to shatter your dreams Ully but that design you propose will definitely not work.
The trackball is WAY too close to the buttons that way. Believe me, you need LOTS of room around that trackball when playing Centi.
thx, mr shatterman, sweet dreams to you, too :twisted: ;)
but wait, there's something i could do, i could move the three mushrooms apart ;)
i liked your small write-up about left- and right-handed games and i've never really thought about the "global picture". obviously i got tangled up in complaining about games which are suited better for right-handed people without thinking about the fact that there ARE game where we left-handed guys kick ass :) and then there are games like crystal castles where you can play without having to think about that at all - may the best man win (left- or right-handed - who cares? 8))
By the way, I noticed small color differences in the Mamemarquees.com cpo (which is probably from "the" collection) and mailed them about it. I wonder if he changed it. I never actually noticed the bolt placing. Weird. And thanks, now I'll never forget ;););)
no problem, my friend. every time you'll play centipede from now on you'll see that misaligned screw :ghost: and think "WHY DID HE HAVE TO TELL ME THIS?" ;)
regarding the corrections: can you judge from my second control panel pictures if he changed the file? this is from a recent printout!
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Still looks exactly like mine.
Guess the market for these is just too small to invest the time...
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Any news about the rework being done on the mamemarquees CPO file. Would be nice to see what was wrong and hot it will be corrected. I hope Mamemarquees will stock them again soon (the light blue ones).
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Any news about the rework being done on the mamemarquees CPO file. Would be nice to see what was wrong and hot it will be corrected. I hope Mamemarquees will stock them again soon (the light blue ones).
I would like to know that also, Ronald Reagan and I just bought a Centipede from Level42 (pictures will follow soon).
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should be finished REAL soon! i'll let you guys know once it's done!!!
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Thanks! :twisted: :twisted:
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this is taking longer than expected, but it shouldn't take MUCH longer now (hopefully). he's a quick update:
- the errors in the original file have been corrected
- the file has been sent off to scott from mamemarquees
- scott is printing out a test overlay along with a color pallet sheet on the original vinyl he's using. those items are on their way to germany NOW. here they will be color-checked against an original european overlay (because scott doesn't have one) and IF there are still color errors, they will be corrected. IF NOT ->
- GO!!!
i'll keep you posted. can't wait to apply the new overlay on my centipede myself!
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Great, good work.
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Thanks for the update!
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Any news on this ?
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Any news on this ?
well, some minor news. as you know, i'm not working on the overlay myself, jörg is (andré, you've talked to him at the daddelparty about centipede). jörg has had some family issues (house clearing etc.) this year, but has managed to finish all the corrections. however, we want to have the colors as exact as possible, so we asked scott from mamemarquees to send over a color palette printed on the material he is using for the overlay to color-match it to the original overlay and bezel. scott has done so and jörg has picked the colors he thinks are closest to the original. however, he called me two weeks ago and told me that he isn't quite sure about his choice of colors. so he asked me if he could get a second opinion on that. of course i said yes and he promised me to send all the stuff over, but after two weeks my mail box is still empty.
so in short: i'm waiting for the color palette, then i'm going to check the colors myself, jörg will adjust them, send the file to scott and then we should be done. believe me, i want to get this over as soon as possible, because my centipede has been waiting in the corner for the overlay to be applied for a looooong time now!
sorry for the delay guys, but it's not in my hands!
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As long as the colors match it is OK with me :D :D
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It's not that I'm in a hurry at all, I just was curious what the status was, thanks for the update ! ;D
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No problem, but it better be right ;) ;) ;) ;)
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No problem, but it better be right ;) ;) ;) ;)
that's what i'm hoping, too ;)
i wrote jörg another email yesterday asking him when he's going to send the stuff over. his answer was, "two weeks already? has it been that long?" ;). he promised to put everything in the mail today, so i should have the items for color matching soon and then it (hopefully) won't be long. can't wait myself!!!
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Is this done as a screen print? Do you know which colors they are using? Pantone?
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Mamemarquees=inkjet.
The Euro colors (Irish) differ from the silk-screened CP that is readily available in the US. That's the whole reason why we want this version to be perfect :D
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Inkjet... :shock:
So most likely the original solid colors are printed in a 4c substitue (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black)?
Good luck, if you want it to be perfect look for someone who does screenprinting ;)
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Good luck, if you want it to be perfect look for someone who does screenprinting ;)
this won't happen, because it would only be a small run. however, the quality of that overlay is nice as it is, so i'd rather take an inkjet print than an old rusted silkscreened version (with the wrong shade of blue)!
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Hm, I wonder how much it would cost to have a local screenprinting shop do something like that, why always wait until someone in the US does it? Anyone ever asked?
Anyway, I rather stick to a not so good original than have a repro that is done in a competely different way. Matching solid colors in 4c is not easy, and in some cases even impossible.
But I may be a bit picky on that subject... ;)
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Inkjet... :shock:
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Good luck, if you want it to be perfect look for someone who does screenprinting ;)
Good luck on that search.
Inkjet isn't as bad as lots of people claim. I've got Mamemarquees first edition of the Irish Centi CPO, and the colors are DEAD on !
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0246/web.jpg)
Yes, there were mistakes in the size of things (I actually didn't even notice this until Ully mentioned it here) but the colors and quality are brilliant.
I did a lot of "research" about the Centi CPO, see the differences between US and Irish here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63654.msg757723#msg757723
And further in the thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63654.msg771488#msg771488) there are more comparison pics between the original Irish CPO and the first version of Mamemarquees.
I'm with Ully, better a great matching colored inkjet then a silkscreened version with the wrong colors....
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Hm, I wonder how much it would cost to have a local screenprinting shop do something like that, why always wait until someone in the US does it? Anyone ever asked?
If the US guys can't get it done cost-effective, than it will be much worse here. Ask Rich from ThisOldGame.com
Anyway, I rather stick to a not so good original than have a repro that is done in a competely different way.
Really ? Maybe if there are minor issues with the original, but not when it's like this:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=63654.0;attach=68417;image)
IMHO this looks a lot nicer, inkjet or not:
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100042/DSCF0829/web.jpg)
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Good luck on that search.
That's why I asked if anyone ever tried to have it done locally...
Inkjet isn't as bad as lots of people claim. I've got Mamemarquees first edition of the Irish Centi CPO, and the colors are DEAD on !
Looks good, indeed. At least on the pic ;D :D ;)
I'm with Ully, better a great matching colored inkjet then a silkscreened version with the wrong colors....
Anything with wrong colors is bad, regardless if it is screen printed or inkjet...
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If the US guys can't get it done cost-effective, than it will be much worse here.
Why? Ever tried to have it done over here?
I mean I too don't think that stuff like that can be made cost-effective, but that should not be the main goal.
Really ? Maybe if there are minor issues with the original, but not when it's like this:
I said "not so good", this is bad. There are people out there who replace stuff just because it has minor scratches and doesn't look like it looked when it came out of the factory 20+ years ago...
Anyway, as I said I might be a bit too picky on that subject, due to my profession as a printer...
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Ah, so if it's your profession, why don't you have a look into running some silkscreens ?
The thing is with silkscreening you will have to make a run of, let's say, at least 50 to +barely+ reach the costs. I think in general the costs of everything in the US is lower that's why I assume that it will be even harder to do in Europe.
Indeed, I would leave an original CPO if there was only minor damage, but the fact of life is there is very often cigarette burns or worse.
The damage around the trackball is very typical for Centipede and thus there was little choice to replace it. The hobby is all about compromise: First choice would be to leave origina, if not possible try to find NOS stuff, if not possible find silkscreen repro's, if not possible get inkjets (as good as possible).
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Ah, so if it's your profession, why don't you have a look into running some silkscreens ?
I might do so if I'm in need of something, asking costs nothing.
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Great !
Or maybe this is an alternative ?
http://www.instructables.com/id/down_and_dirty_screenprinting_for_under_10/
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Or maybe this is an alternative ?
http://www.instructables.com/id/down_and_dirty_screenprinting_for_under_10/
I doubt that, this is merely for "fun" projects of lower quality. You would have to cut out a stencil by hand, one for each color :shock:
In professional screen printing the screen is made in a photomechanical way, so details can accuratly be reproduced.
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Yeah, I forgot to put the ;) in there ;)
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Yeah, I forgot to put the ;) in there ;)
Ah, okay ;D
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ok, here's an update. i've finally received the color sample printout from jörg - here's how this baby looks like (i put it underneath the original bezel to flat out) :arrow:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4454286382_90b4106e40_b.jpg)
one of those segments in detail :arrow:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4453508401_ddb60fab40_b.jpg)
as you can see, the individual square are VERY TINY with the exception of the center square. and here's where we stand: i have an old worn original overlay, a print by scott from mamemarquees (the one that andré has on his centi) and an original bezel. problem: those three items all have different color shades, e.g. none of the blues is identical. imho it would be the best idea to match the reproduction overlay colors to the colors of the bezel, because the original overlay is definitely discolored (you can see that at spots which had been covered by buttons for example).
the problem with matching the colors to the bezel are that there is the thick sheet of plexi on top of the print itself, which means tht i cannot put the color samples from scott directly next to the bezel colors PLUS the individual squares of the color samples are so small, it's close to impossible to see if the color really fits well.
to be honest guys, i have no idea how to tackle this from here. i've spend a good time today staring at those colors and trying to compare them and while i'm often very close to the original, it just doesn't work out the way i had hoped it would.
i need some input here, please!
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I'd say you need to match the colour always to the part you want to reproduce. One and the same colour can look totally different on various kinds of materials. Plexi is smooth and shiny, the vinyl of the CP is not. Match the colour to the bezel and it might look totally different on vinyl.
I might be wrong, but I doubt that these samples are the way to go, these are not proper samples for professional printing (even if it is done in inkjet CMYK). My guess is that those original CPs were printed with Pantone colors, so the "easiest" way would be to find out the original colours, then you would easily get the appropriate CMYK data to print them in inkjet or whatever.
I might give it a shot to find out, Ully, contact me if you like...
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with the colors of Mamemarquees' Centi CPO, at least, not with the blue and green.
The red is too light at some points, but I've seen other CPO's that had the same defect. It could be an "original" defect.
Considering the age of my original CPO, I'd say the colors were EXACTLY right. Again this pic:
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0246/web.jpg)
Here is where the Mamemarquees one is wrong. The red IN the mushrooms looks fins to me. Of course the edge is totally wrong (blue instead of pink) but the real issue is the "star" which is WAY too light colored on the Mamemarquees version.
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0247/web.jpg?ver=12550447610003)
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Click here for more pics:
http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts#100081
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hmmm, the blue from scotts print doesn't match MY original overlay and it doesn't match the bezels blue, too much purple in there imho.
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What is the status of this?
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still have the stuff lying around here. i'm going to take everything over to sascha when i pick up the nightdriver in two to three weeks and we'll see what we can do. he offered to have a look at the problem!
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update on this: i took all the stuff along for the night driver ride to sascha's place. he's going to try to color match the bezel colors to a pantone color chart. i'm pretty sure sascha is the right man for the job! :spaceace:
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Great, can't wait to see the result :)
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What is the status?
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@sascha: what is the status? ;)
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@sascha: what is the status? ;)
Satus: holiday ;D
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have you made any progress?
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A little..., it's actually a pain in the youknowwhere.
My boss suggested to have a printout made at a place which can actually print on vinyl stuff (we're a "classic" paper printshop ;D) to see how it comes out.
I'm not very confident, though.
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do you think this is ever going to happen?
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I guess the 'Mamemarquees Euro Centipede CPO' design is correct, and that there are 'only' some color issues, as André mentioned in post #39 of this topic. I am no pro in art files, but is it really that difficult to get pretty good matching colors in the art file?
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The problem is the position of stuff, definitely not the colors, MameMarquees colors are 100% accurate, except for the red that I mentioned, so I don't see the whole problem.
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the position of the objects has been corrected, but the colors definitely are NOT the same as on the original panel. PLUS they totally differ from the colors of the bezel!
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The problem is the position of stuff, definitely not the colors, MameMarquees colors are 100% accurate, except for the red that I mentioned, so I don't see the whole problem.
+1. Perhaps 'we' should be too critic, adjust the red and send the file off to mamemarquees. Also because Laschek has doubts.
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the position of the objects has been corrected, but the colors definitely are NOT the same as on the original panel. PLUS they totally differ from the colors of the bezel!
I'm totally puzzled now.
IIRC (this is quite old) you guys asked the file that Mamemarquees used to use for the Irish Centi CPO just like the one I have. From that file someone improved/corrected the position of things but that shouldn't change the colors now should it ?
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Popping into this thread late, but I'm one of the owners of one of those centipedes from Andre, and will be needing a CPO too.
I have a pantone swatch kit, do any colours still need matching? I'm not sure I follow what's going on, so forgive me if I just put my foot in it :)
Colin
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sascha has my stuff, so i can't post a comparison pick now!
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Almost another month went by. ;) Any news?
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Why not just get the repro that Mamemarquees used to have (the one I have now). OK, it's not 100% perfect, but it's a whole lot better than nothing.....
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i agree, andré, i've almost come to the same conclusion.
@laschek: any update?
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I'm just wondering if someone is still working on this project and if the end is in sight. Or should I indeed just order the one Mamemarquees now has?
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i don't know! sascha doesn't respond to this ...
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Sacha, what is the status of this project, is the end in sight, or will it take a bit longer than you thought? A post of your progress could be a nice read.
My gameroom will be finished and 'operational' early 2011, would be great to have the correct European CPO on my European Centipede around that time. ;) :D
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Status is: no more status, I am officially out of this project. I explained my reasons to Ully.
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Status is: no more status, I am officially out of this project. I explained my reasons to Ully.
Ully, what's up? Any chance on success, or will we have to do with the files as they are?
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I don't want to keep nagging, but I'm sure some people would like to know where this project is going. Is there anyone working on it, or planning to do so?
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Yes, I'm also looking into buying a new CPO for my Centipede - so I'm holding my breath until there is an update on the new and improved one.
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I don't want to keep nagging, but I'm sure some people would like to know where this project is going. Is there anyone working on it, or planning to do so?
no problem, erik, i simply missed your post the last time. as sascha has already told you guys, he's out of the project, because it's extremely difficult to match those colors because of those tiny squares and the thick bezel plexiglas with the colors BEHIND it. andré pointed out that the blue is pretty close to the original. while i have to agree on this one, the blue is totally off from the one used on the bezel - and that's what i'd like to match those colors to, so that control panel overlay and bezel will form a nice bond / unit. i've found a very close match for that blue, but the other colors are more difficult. i'll give it another go once the weather gets better and the sun comes out, because a job like that can best be done in sunlight - not neonlight!
if chrischris had a centipede bezel, i might ask him to give it a try, but as far as i know, he doesn't - and sending that huge bezel over to holland would probably cost 50 bucks. anyone from the "dutch team" wanna lend him his bezel?
hang in there guys, i hope we can pull this off!
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Ully can't you get your hands on a pantone guide set? (don't buy it, it's expensive)
If yes that would be the best method: place the pantone guide under the plexiglass in daylight and select the right color.
Pantone is a standard in europe that's the way to go if you want a reliable method IMHO.
I have one that I could send you by the post if you promise to send it back and to treat him with respect (no swearing in Dutch in front of him) ;D
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Ully can't you get your hands on a pantone guide set? (don't buy it, it's expensive)
If yes that would be the best method: place the pantone guide under the plexiglass in daylight and select the right color.
that's exactly what sascha tried. however, even if we find a color match, the problem is then going to be to "translate" that color into something which scott from mamemarquees (whateveritiscallednow) can print. and even if we can "translate" those colors, we don't know whether they are going to look exactly like the original pantone color once scott prints them on his vinyl. i really think trying to work with those color sheets and asking scott for some larger samples in between is the best way to go!
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What's causing you troubles here is the "translation" part.
A printer don't have to translate a pantone that's the whole idea:"Pantone is a standardized color matching system, utilizing the Pantone numbering system for identifying colors. By standardizing the colors, different manufacturers in different locations can all reference a Pantone numbered color, making sure colors match without direct contact with one another."
As your printer is obviously not working with pantones than, I think that you're absolutely right: trial and error with a printed sheet of samples is the best (thought non professional) way to go. You have no other options if you want to work with him.
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If you just want a pantone match to the blue in the bezel, I can do that. I have a swatch and a bezel.
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As mentioned a couple times before: the colors of the "old" mamemarquees Centipede BRIGHT blue CPO _ARE_ correct, except for the one I mentioned WAAAAAAY up above.
SOoooooo, I still _really_ do not understand what the fuzz is still about. The ONLY thing needed is the corrections of the placing of the mushrooms, which has been done, right ?
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"Pantone is a standardized color matching system, utilizing the Pantone numbering system for identifying colors. By standardizing the colors, different manufacturers in different locations can all reference a Pantone numbered color, making sure colors match without direct contact with one another."
Marketing blahblah, it's not as easy as it sounds. Sure it helps in communication, but it's not near a guarantee that the colors really match the way they should. There are so many factors involved, especially technical ones, not forgetting the "human factor".
Print one and the same color on two different papers (glossy/writing paper) and it looks totally different (often a problem especially with graphic designers who generally don't seem to have the slightest clue about professional printing. Design schools don't seem to teach anything about it (at least here in Germany)).
Try to match a color with a 6mm plexi between the color and your color guide, very misleading. Even if you succeed: that same color printed onto a structured vinyl (in contrast to the very even surface of the plexi) will most likely look different.
Plus (maybe the most important part in this case): the bezel (like most artwork back in the days) was screenprinted with solid colors. The reproduction CPO will be printed by inkjet in 4-color (CMYK) simulation, which is just that: a simulation. Depending on the color you might reach good results, but then again you might not. FI metallic colors like gold and silver are impossible to simulate and look just poor in 4c.
Best way would be to provide the guy who prints the CPO with a bezel so he could directly match the printing to the bezel. Everything else is somewhat like staggering around in the dark. And not worth all the effort IMHO as long as it's not done in screenprint/solid colors, but that's another story.
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As mentioned a couple times before: the colors of the "old" mamemarquees Centipede BRIGHT blue CPO _ARE_ correct, except for the one I mentioned WAAAAAAY up above
I don't know if I had the "old" one or what, but the sample Ully gave me was way off.
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Didn't you see the pictures of my mamemarquees CPO I linked to in this thread ?
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I don't care about any pics or anything anyone has, the sample Ully gave to me was way off, that's all I can say. You can't judge colors by photos anyway.
Plus Ully wants the colors to match the bezel, not the original CPO.
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Plus Ully wants the colors to match the bezel, not the original CPO.
agreed! isn't that what we should be going for?
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So...........let's sum this up.
Mamemarquees used to have a Centipede CPO on sale called the BRIGHT blue version.
I ordered this and installed it. I compared the colors with the ORIGINAL CPO and to my eyes, and as you can see on the pictures they are pretty damn acurate. Maybe, just maybe they are 1% off.
Next, some German guys discover that there is some errors in the positioning of the mushrooms. I didn't even notice it before !!!
They ask the file from Mamemarquees so they can correct the errors. The only thing that needed to be corrected IMHO was the positioning of the artwork, NOT the colors. (except for the yellow/orange like color).
Awaiting this, Mamemarquees REMOVES the bright blue version from his site so we cannot order this any more awaiting the corrected file.
Please help me....where did this go wrong ?
I mean, I know I would prefer a picture perfect screen printed bright blue Centipede CPO for all the Irish built cabs BUT having a reasonable alternative is better than nothing IMHO.
Matching the blue to the bezel is never going to be accurate. The inks are different to print on perspex and the aging has influenced the colors too (sunlight maybe).
Anyway, as it stands we now have NOTHING to put on those Irish Ceni CPO's...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
(Since it's a pretty old thread, I'll put up two of the pics again here:
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0246/web.jpg)
(http://gallery.mac.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0247/web.jpg?ver=12550447610003)
To be clear: what you see is the ORIGINAL Bright blue Mamemarquees repro (inkjet !) and the original scraps I removed from my CPO.....color errors on pic or not, my eyes are VERY picky when it comes to colors.
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And to show how well it fits the bezel:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0109/web.jpg?ver=12550449500002)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100081/DSCF0112/web.jpg?ver=12550449590002)
I don't see anything wrong with this....
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So what's your problem if you're happy with it? Plus you could always take the file and have it printed yourself, Inkjet or anything.
As I said, you can't judge colors this way by looking at photos, that's just not possible. I compared Ullys sample with an original sample and it was way off. Maybe the sample was from a different run, maybe your and my bezel are totally different, who knows, everything is possible. See what I meant when I wrote that many factors are involved in things like this?
And to me the colors (the blue) on your pics (esp. the second one of the old/new comparison pics)) do look pretty different, even considering aging. And my eyes are not only very picky on these things too, but I do stuff like that on a daily basis for 20 years now.
But then, as I said, judging by photos is not possible.
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I don't see anything wrong with this....
i'll check tomorrow on mine again and try to take some pics!
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Plus Ully wants the colors to match the bezel, not the original CPO.
agreed! isn't that what we should be going for?
No, not as far as I'm concerned, I would like to have a good match with the original CPO
So...........let's sum this up.
EDIT: Although ...... If I'm not mistaken they seem to have it for sale again,
Matching the blue to the bezel is never going to be accurate. The inks are different to print on perspex and the aging has influenced the colors too (sunlight maybe).
I don't have much knowledge of printing techniques, but this sounds logical to me.
Anyway, as it stands we now have NOTHING to put on those Irish Ceni CPO's...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Indeed.
I never knew that the goal was to match the CPO with the bezel. I don't know why it should match if there was a 'factory' difference. And although you guys did quite some effort to try to match the CPO to the bezel (or the other way round, I don't know), I understand from your remarks that it is technically not doable.
So, could somebody PM me a link to the Mamemarquees European CPO file, so that I can order my CPO. :) Thanks.
EDIT: Although .... If I'm correct they have the European Centipede CPO for sale agian: http://www.gameongrafix.com/products/centipede-upright-cpo-light-blue
Still with the wrong colors on the mushrooms and star though. Good enough for me I guess.
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If we could get the re-worked file from the German guys I'm pretty sure we could arrange something with another well known US printer.....especially of all the new Centi owners around here would join in.
I would still like to have the corrected graphics on the CP, and if possible a bright colored star so that's why I'm interested in this...
Please PM me if you have the file.
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If we could get the re-worked file from the German guys I'm pretty sure we could arrange something with another well known US printer.....especially of all the new Centi owners around here would join in.
I would still like to have the corrected graphics on the CP, and if possible a bright colored star so that's why I'm interested in this...
Please PM me if you have the file.
Will do, I just hope that someone is willing to give me, or you, the file.
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To be honest I also never understood why the bezel should match the CPO when originally it didn't either. But anyway, Ully wanted it that way so that was finally alright with me. I didn't know that it was going to be some kind of "official" thing (or maybe I just didn't realize it?), I thought it was just about Ullys CPO and I still have the impression that this is the case. It was my initial intention to help him out, I didn't care about anything or anyone else and still do so. Well, I''m out anyway..., so go ahead everyone and do whatever you like, it's not my funeral.
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Erik or André, someone PM me an email address and I can send you the files from work tomorrow.
Feel free to remind me of it in case I forget, I'll have a busy day tomorrow.
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Erik or André, someone PM me an email address and I can send you the files from work tomorrow.
Feel free to remind me of it in case I forget, I'll have a busy day tomorrow.
PM send, thanks.
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ok, as promised i took some pictures, but as sascha has already stated, pictures don't show those colors correctly and don't "reveal" how off the colors of the print are. in fact, scott's blue has a slight touch of purple which doesn't show at all in the pics. sascha has seen the stuff in person and i'm sure he can confirm. first off a picture of scott's overlay print in the background with a piece of the original overlay on top of it. this original overlay shows two different shades of blue, because the upper one (darker) was the part exposed to the surroundings, the lower one (brighter) was hidden underneath the panel. as you can see, none of those colors match, HOWEVER none of those colors match to the bezel's blue either!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4972943739_9f6bebe07c_b_d.jpg)
up next a picture of the artwork in comparison. once again scott's print in the background, an original piece in the foreground. apart from the fact that there are color errors in the priont (which have already been corrected), one can clearly see that neither the green nor the yellow (both colors also featured on the bezel) are a match - and once again neither of those colors match with the bezel's colors. the red is ok, not perfect, but ok!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4972943651_aaeb9c6c5a_b_d.jpg)
in fact we would only have to match 4 colors to the bezel: blue, green, yellow and red. that's where we still stand!
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Well, I don't say this often, but I think we're ant-fucking here.
Just MHO of course.
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Well, I don't say this often, but I think we're ant-fucking here.
somehow i have to agree, andré, but the blue on the print i got from scott is really really off, the picture doesn't even show a bit of how off it is!!!
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You have to keep in mind that this is an inkjet repro.
I mean, the clear errors like the mushroom edge color and the much too light red of the star are irritating but else.....
You're not going to hold an original CPO scrap part next to the CP for the rest of your life are you ?
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ok, i finally took this on again: i've matched the colors as good as possible (eye-inspection in bright daylight) to the BEZEL (because that's what's directly above the control panel) and i think i've found pretty good matches for the red, green and yellow. not sure about the blue though, this is a strange kind if blue. i'll send my suggestions off to scott and ask him for the color codes of the selected colors, then i'll pass those on to the caveman for him to change the colors according to the codes provided by scott. once this is done, i'll send the corrected file off to scott for a test print. i'll ask him to do two different versions (because sometimes i couldn't decide on a single color) and from that i'm going to choose the final version. as you can see, this might take a little while longer ;), but hopefully it will be worth it in the end.
i have been anal enough about this, so let's finish it!!! my centipede has been standing around in the corner collecting dust for far too long now ...
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I'm sure that last month you were pretty busy with your restoration works for several cabs, weren't you? :) ;)
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i was! but i sent out two emails to scott, but never heard back from him :(
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no reply from scott on multiple emails, so i guess he's not interested anymore. andré suggested asking rich from thisoldgame.com to take on the project and i think it's a great idea. before i ask him though i have a question for you guys: is the american centipede bezel the same (colorwise) as the european one? i still want the colors from the bezel matched to the control panel colors and if usa bezel = euro bezel rich has something to work with!
so if anyone knows, please let me know!
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just wanted to let you guys know that i've started talking with rich about the control panel overlay. the problem is that the euro and the us style bezels differ a lot in color and i'm pretty sure rich doesn't have a euro bezel. so if he can't come up with another idea, i might send him my bezel over for a perfect color matching job.
THIS NEEDS TO BE FINISHED. my almost finished centipede is using up too much space in my workroom, it wants to be moved into my temporary gameroom.
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Thanks for the update.
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here's another update on this: rich is going to print a couple of larger samples for each color we need judging from pictures he got from me. he'll be sending those samples over to my place (along with some other stuff i ordered) and from those samples we're choosing the final colors for the overlay.
so hang in there guys a little bit more, i'm confident that this will be finished within the first quarter of this year!
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here's another update on this: rich is going to print a couple of larger samples for each color we need judging from pictures he got from me. he'll be sending those samples over to my place (along with some other stuff i ordered) and from those samples we're choosing the final colors for the overlay.
so hang in there guys a little bit more, i'm confident that this will be finished within the first quarter of this year!
I hope so.....Im still waiting for the Puckman CPO to be shipped despite a couple of promises that it would be mailed soon.......guess Rich is very busy ?
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here's another update on this: rich is going to print a couple of larger samples for each color we need judging from pictures he got from me. he'll be sending those samples over to my place (along with some other stuff i ordered) and from those samples we're choosing the final colors for the overlay.
In this case this really is the best way to work. I dare saying: almost there!
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Put the US overlay on - honestly it looks decent.
You can then wait until a nice/perfect original euro CP comes up for sale.
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Put the US overlay on - honestly it looks decent.
Sorry, but I have to disagree on this one.... :) Colors really don't match the Irish machine...
You can then wait until a nice/perfect original euro CP comes up for sale.
Ully's going to be a grand-daddy when that happens !
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A very good topic thread : go ahead Ully :spaceace:.
Well, I wonder : I have a Centipede Cabaret (european version) : does the reproduction cpo apply to that version (with a scale factor) ?
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No, it is different all together:
(http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/flyers_video/atari/11025801.jpg)
(using this flyer because the colors are better than the "main" one).
I still think it's very interesting that the US flyers feature the Irish colors....
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Thanks André.
Mine looks like :
(http://img2.uplood.fr/free/8ndy_centipedecpo.jpg)
About the flyers and the US versions : strange in fact :P.
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See, there's only one "mushroom" compared to three on the upright.
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Yes, I saw :D.
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OMG would love to have that cocktail version!!!
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That cocktail version is the very rare 19inch version (looks like the Tempest cocktail) :P.
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That cocktail version is the very rare 19inch version (looks like the Tempest cocktail) :P.
Yup.....never seen one, not even on picture (apart from that flyer).
Here's the Tempest:
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn36/7146aaron/cocktail/tempest2.jpg)
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MM never saw a tempest in Europa. Would like to know if the made them in Ireland. same goes for the warlords 4 player cocktail
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Warlords yes. I don't know about Tempest.
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MM never saw a tempest in Europa. Would like to know if the made them in Ireland.
They were made in Ireland, there was a thread on KLOV where people compared the US artwork vs. the Irish artwork (which is a little different, as usual...). Mind you, the people who had an irish built Tempest were all from the US...
I have seen two Tempest cabs in a warehouse in Germany some years ago, they were in bad shape and converted to Arkanoid.
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Warlords yes. I don't know about Tempest.
Cool warlords cocktail is in my top 5 of games i would want to own! never knew i had a chance of finding 1 here in Europa.
MM never saw a tempest in Europa. Would like to know if the made them in Ireland.
They were made in Ireland, there was a thread on KLOV where people compared the US artwork vs. the Irish artwork (which is a little different, as usual...). Mind you, the people who had an irish built Tempest were all from the US...
I have seen two Tempest cabs in a warehouse in Germany some years ago, they were in bad shape and converted to Arkanoid.
You have seen 2 19inch tempest cocktails? If so please tell me where because i would love to own 1!
(Yes i like cocktail cabinets because of the space i have ^^ )
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A cocktail eats up much more floor-space than an upright.....esp. because you need to be able to sit on both sides usually...
I think Lascheck meant upright Tempests ?
I'm sure they were built in Ireland too. Speleo has a Tempest and I played it. It ROCKS ! :)
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A cocktail eats up much more floor-space than an upright.....esp. because you need to be able to sit on both sides usually...
I think Lascheck meant upright Tempests ?
I'm sure they were built in Ireland too. Speleo has a Tempest and I played it. It ROCKS ! :)
True but not if you dont have strait walls like in the loft (Zolder)
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You have seen 2 19inch tempest cocktails? If so please tell me where because i would love to own 1!
Ahh, sorry, I indeed thought you were talking about Tempests in general. The two I saw were uprights. They were mercifully released from their poor existence as Arkanoids when the warehouse burned to the ground.
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here's another update on this: rich is going to print a couple of larger samples for each color we need judging from pictures he got from me. he'll be sending those samples over to my place (along with some other stuff i ordered) and from those samples we're choosing the final colors for the overlay.
so hang in there guys a little bit more, i'm confident that this will be finished within the first quarter of this year!
The first quarter of the year has passed, as has the second, and the third quarter almost also. ;) ;D
Any update?
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Magic sponge + mylar (used for pinball playfield protection) for me :spaceace: :
(http://img2.uplood.fr/free/1x2f_centipedecabaretcporenov.jpg)
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Nice if the original is still in tact but ALL of the upright Centi's I've seen so far have (or had) damage on the CPO near the trackball area....
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actually i've just placed my order with rich about a week ago and i asked him again about the color samples he wanted to print for us. rest assured, this project is not forgotten!
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Any news? :)
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Magic sponge + mylar (used for pinball playfield protection) for me :spaceace: :
(http://img2.uplood.fr/free/1x2f_centipedecabaretcporenov.jpg)
Should you change your mind, I know a source for NOS cabaret CPO's, but I dont know if US and Irish versions differ as well....
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Any news? :)
Yes, i would like to know too.
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André : thanks for the information, but the Irish cpo and the US are not the same.
Anyways, if you have found an Irish one, I'm interested for sure.
A last picture of the Centipede cabaret, with the populated panel :
(http://img2.uplood.fr/free/qw1c_gameroom3.jpg)
All the best :).
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I guess that the Centipede CPO project is dead.
Oh well, than I just have to do with a US style CPO. What is the best address for it?
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Éric, as I remember, your cpo wasn't bad at all : you can perhaps clean it with a magic sponge and apply a mylar on it ?
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Éric, as I remember, your cpo wasn't bad at all : you can perhaps clean it with a magic sponge and apply a mylar on it ?
it was pretty bad, and it's gone .... thrtough the drain ...... years ago. :? so I really need a new one.
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me 2!
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not dead! rich from thisoldgame.com told me he was going to print different color samples so that i could match them to the cpo, but he forgot to include them in his last package to me ... :(
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Any update?
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Any Update? Is someone still working on it?
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I expect this to be done when all my projects are finished..... ;D
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Yeah, and when my vector que is empty ;D ;D ;D
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And when I'm old and grumpy!
Oh, I'm already old .................... and sometimes a bit grumpy. :lol:
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i have asked rich to include color samples with my last order, but he forgot about it :(. right now, this seems to be at a standstill!
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i have asked rich to include color samples with my last order, but he forgot about it :(. right now, this seems to be at a standstill!
So, if I understand it correctly, then Rich from TOG has the art files? I guess that I then just will ask him to print and sell me a CPO, regardless the correctness of the colors. I can always get a better one in the future, if it will become available.