Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Belike on November 10, 2011, 05:25:21 PM

Title: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 10, 2011, 05:25:21 PM
As most of you know, we are a big fan of the different versions of Crazy Kong pcbs with Etienne. ;D
I bought an original Falcon blue pcb a few weeks ago, made a jamma adapter for it (Thanks for the assistance Etienne ;)) and made some tests yesterday.
For first test, the graphics was 100% ok, but the marching, jumping and some other sounds were missing.
I made some eprom reseating, etc. and now it also has graphic faults. ;D
I guess I can fix that with some more cleaning and reseating, but I would need some help with the missing sounds.
Where should I start?
Here is a little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FK52PedKEo
Thanks in advance. ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: ataritoobin on November 10, 2011, 06:28:23 PM
I'm not too familiar with Crazy Kong PCBs, but it sounds like the sampled "Crazy Climber" sounds are missing.  Might check the DAC circuitry (again keeping in mind I'm not familiar with these particular PCBs  :D)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: PaulSwan on November 10, 2011, 07:24:29 PM
The schematics are available at crazykong.com. The digital audio (as opposed to the 8910 audio) pops out of an LM3900. I'd check for audio out there and also if there is digitial sample data feeding it out of the LS157.
Paul.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 10, 2011, 08:16:06 PM
I checked that area and I found some scratches on solder side, right under the LM3900.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UlnoWOrUtR4/TrwiD9fERUI/AAAAAAAAE-0/3jYka9MWGL4/s912/Ck%252520pcb%252520025.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yzfl2IIMn-I/TrwiDqCOR6I/AAAAAAAAE-4/7OzyXhzzuhM/s912/Ck%252520pcb%252520026.jpg)

Btw. how can I check the audio outs from those chips you mentioned? :oops:
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: PaulSwan on November 10, 2011, 09:07:52 PM
Oscilloscope or crystal earpiece. You might be able to get away with a headphone. For the digital side, a logic proble or oscilloscope.

Paul.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on November 10, 2011, 09:48:45 PM
I adviced you to "beep" those traces remember  ::)

if they are broken, scratch a little more of the blue away and solder it, or apply a jumper wire.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 10, 2011, 10:19:32 PM
I adviced you to "beep" those traces remember  ::)

if they are broken, scratch a little more of the blue away and solder it, or apply a jumper wire.

Thanks Etienne, I just received my first multimeter from my old friend, I will try that also. ;)
The ic-s that Paul mentioned are  available here for some cents, I will also try the piggyback method. :D
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: level42 on November 11, 2011, 12:02:18 AM
You can use the ESR meter to measure this too...
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 11, 2011, 12:41:59 AM
You can use the ESR meter to measure this too...
Can you explain the method in a few words? ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: level42 on November 11, 2011, 12:47:35 AM
Instead of putting the leads over a cap you put them over two solder points with a track between them that you think may be broken. Then look at the screen. Not sure about the Peak-Delta, but the Russian meter will say R ONLY to indicate it didnt find a capacitor but only a " resistance" and then show the resistance in Ohms.

Remember, its an ESR meter, the R stands for resistance, so it is a ....resistance meter. A track of copper and some solderings should of course indicate a very low resistance if they are OK.....

Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 11, 2011, 01:04:54 AM
Instead of putting the leads over a cap you put them over two solder points with a track between them that you think may be broken. Then look at the screen. Not sure about the Peak-Delta, but the Russian meter will say R ONLY to indicate it didnt find a capacitor but only a " resistance" and then show the resistance in Ohms.

Remember, its an ESR meter, the R stands for resistance, so it is a ....resistance meter. A track of copper and some solderings should of course indicate a very low resistance if they are OK.....


I'm starting to understand electricity, thanks André! :D
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: liquidx on November 11, 2011, 11:08:01 AM
Instead of putting the leads over a cap you put them over two solder points with a track between them that you think may be broken. Then look at the screen. Not sure about the Peak-Delta, but the Russian meter will say R ONLY to indicate it didnt find a capacitor but only a " resistance" and then show the resistance in Ohms.


The Atlas/Peak will display "In Circuit/Leaky" and the Resistance below.

Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 11, 2011, 12:15:04 PM

The Atlas/Peak will display "In Circuit/Leaky" and the Resistance below.


Exactly. ;)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 11, 2011, 02:56:44 PM
I bought the ic-s that Paul mentioned and piggybacked them. :D
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OGycQ4tkI1Y/Tr0nTNYGzaI/AAAAAAAAE_I/hgGT7OzWyU8/s800/Ck%252520sound%252520issue%2525201%252520003.jpg)
After the first test, the missing sounds was there, but they were quite weird.
I had an instant idea and removed the LS 157 and with just the piggybacked LM3900 the result was the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BadFclnoqH4
Thanks Paul, you are a genius! ;D
I owe you one, but please everything but not the Space Pirate! ;D ;D ;D
Of course thanks to all of you for your advises also. ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on November 11, 2011, 05:24:56 PM
Cool!

Now cut that old one out, desolder the remains, put in a socket in there and your ready for the next challenge; the graphic issue..  ;D
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: PaulSwan on November 11, 2011, 05:52:06 PM
Result! :)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on November 11, 2011, 06:00:23 PM
Cool!

Now cut that old one out, desolder the remains, put in a socket in there and your ready for the next challenge; the graphic issue..  ;D
Yeah, and I'm scared to death from this job. :D
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: CrazyKongFan on November 13, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
Thanks for the info! I have a Falcon CK board (not Part 2) that has the same problem. The music, etc works, but the samples from the Crazy Climber ROM's don't play. I'm not home now to mess with it, but I'll try and pick up one of those LM3900's and piggyback it like Belike did and see if that fixes it :)
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: CrazyKongFan on December 09, 2011, 06:49:06 PM
Well, finally got around to looking at mine. Unfortunately, mine isn't as easy of a fix :( I was missing all the Crazy Climber sounds just like Belike. I picked up an LM3900N chip yesterday and piggybacked it on the old one, and got some of the CC sounds...except it's not the right ones. For example, when Kong is beating his chest, you get the high pitched 'yes' sound like when you grab the helicopter on CC. The coin-up (and spring bounce) sound is the mumbled "go for it" sound (from when you sit in one place too long on CC). Would the LS157 determine where it gets the sounds out of the EPROM, or would it be some other chip. I have no problem replacing chips, although it's a bit of a pain. I did get the old LM3900 out and soldered in the new one today.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: CrazyKongFan on December 22, 2011, 09:53:59 PM
Woo-hoo, success! I was looking at the board again today and happened to notice the 2532/2732 solder jumper (to select a 2532 or 2732 EPROM) under #14 socket (mine has no #14 EPROM since it's not Crazy Kong part 2), and it looked different than the other 2 or 3 of those located on other sections of the board, so I assume it was set for a 2532, since the board uses 2732's and the rest of the EPROM's work. So I removed the solder bridge, and also remember seeing some regular CK board like that having the 2 sound EPROM's shifed one socket over (so #12 is empty, and #12 and #13 go in socket 13 and 14), so I moved #13 over to 14, with no sound, then moved #12 to 13 and lo and behold, I now have perfect sound!
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on December 22, 2011, 10:22:06 PM
Nice work, well done. ;)
Seems like this sound issue is a typical problem with CK boards.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: baritonomarchetto on December 23, 2011, 12:07:23 PM
Did you solved the graphic issue Bela? If not, check if you accidentally have broken / bended some pin on the ROMs/RAMs you reseated
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: Belike on December 23, 2011, 03:46:05 PM
Did you solved the graphic issue Bela? If not, check if you accidentally have broken / bended some pin on the ROMs/RAMs you reseated
Thanks Marco, it was some voltage problem, I tried it out in another jamma cab and it works fine.
Seems like there is some psu problem with my Nova Big Screen cab, the voltage could be set, but this pcb still shows garbage in the highest option.
Title: Re: Crazy Kong sound issue
Post by: CrazyKongFan on December 29, 2011, 10:22:26 PM
Crazy Kong seems to be really picky with voltages. That one I fixed with the bad sound, if I use a PC switcher, it has all sorts of graphical glitches. If I put it in my Gaplus cab (using a JAMMA cab adapter and Falcon pinout JAMMA adapter), it looks perfect. When I put it in my new cocktail, it sometimes glitches if the board gets flexed at all. I also have a Donkey King (CK bootleg) that also glitches depending on which power supply I use.