Author Topic: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids  (Read 64500 times)

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2015, 11:33:31 PM »
I must say that at the moment I can actually several games in a row before a reset happens.
This is weird and it reminds me of an Italian racing car brand....very beautiful and desirable but quite unreliable ;)

I do have to note that 3 of the 4 vector RAMs are not socketed on the PCB....maybe there's a problem there. The PROM might also be a possible cause for this behavior.

Anyway, some random stuff now:

Just for fun, I compared a sample of the "ghetto" chrome T-molding to the stuff currently on the machine....I totally agree....this is NOT what I want on there !!!




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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2015, 11:42:14 PM »
I tried an original US/Irish Asteroids speaker from the shell.....I like it much better.

Somehow this one feels "correct" right away. I'll need a bit of creativity to mount it though...
(Not the speaker so much, but the cheap-ass grill).

On the pic you see the US speaker left, the Italian on the right. I guess size does matter in this case...

Look at the grill.....see all that plastic ? all of that plastic is keeping sound out.
Geez....there's so little light coming through it, are there any holes there at all ?? Especially the center area is even more dense. High tones (like the shots) are even more influenced by this....it really makes it sound WRONG.

Yes I'm anal, I never listen to my home stereo with covers on my speakers either....and that's just some very fine speaker-cloth....but I hear the difference...

It hurst even more because of the straight angle the speaker grill  is with regards to the player. If the bezel would be angled like f.i. Ms.Pac Man has it would be less terrible I bet...but the sound doesn't reflect off the bezel on Asteroids.

Wish you guys could hear the difference when it's ON the cab and when it's OFF.

However.....I want to maintain the original look as much as possible....thinking of cutting out the full "mesh" area and put some speaker cloth on it....but we'll see about that later....
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:45:58 PM by Level42 »

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2015, 11:48:07 PM »
Ah, a picture I took from the "leftovers" of the original IC sockets.

I managed to "pull of" the entire strings of pins by going over the holes one by one with a soldering iron.

Pretty funny to do...

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2015, 11:50:02 PM »
Figured I'd throw in the repro bezel I have here now.

It was still in plastic and covered with the protective films...

Looks pretty damn good.......but I can't live with the missing Atari Italia/Bertolino logo....


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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2015, 11:52:36 PM »
The Asteroids will be at Eurocade, wether my board is running 100% or not since Chris will be bringing a reliable board.

I'll keep the bezel for Eurocade but it can leave after that, so that's going up on the for sale thread.

I hope to get scans from Vernimark and hope Etienne can help me with the artwork ? :D

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #95 on: August 18, 2015, 04:21:52 PM »
OK hooked up the Fluke 9100A and went through the works:

Bus test => OK
RAM tests => OK
ROM tests =? OK (well, I don't know the signatures but the results are constant even during prolonged looped testing...

Since the Atari documentation is always top notch, it even provides the addresses for buttons (inputs) and f.i. sounds (outputs).
I played around with sending data to the sound addresses which produced some rather weird noises :)
 
Also ran the UUT of course, works fine, well....just as normal so with occasional random vectors and sometimes resets.

SO.....I think the Fluke can't really "see" the issue. I think the problem is somewhere in the vector generating hardware and not ROM/RAM related. But there ends my knowledge...any help appreciated !!




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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2015, 05:34:07 PM »
i had the similiar issue with asteroids...resetting from time to time...

check if the cpu is a 6502A (asteroids runs on 1,5 mhz)

but the problem that i had was a bad cpu-socket.

there is too much butter on those trays

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2015, 05:45:20 PM »
Quote


this is NOT what I want on there !!!

Told you so...  ;D

i have considered that option too for my zacc, but when i saw the pics of that, i passed  ;D

Ofcourse i will help you with the artwork, just let me know  ;)


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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #98 on: August 19, 2015, 03:36:14 PM »
i had the similiar issue with asteroids...resetting from time to time...

check if the cpu is a 6502A (asteroids runs on 1,5 mhz)

but the problem that i had was a bad cpu-socket.


Thanks....yeah replaced that already with a nice one with machined pins...
The processor is from 1982 though....mmmm....let's have a look.....but on the other hand, the same thing happened while running the board with the Fluke 9100A....which then uses the processor in the 6502 Pod....mmmm...

OK looking now.....



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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #99 on: August 19, 2015, 03:39:50 PM »
HAH ! It's a regular 6502 ! I actually _did_ notice the date code of 8217 but didn't even think twice about that it needs a 6502A !

AND.......the 6502 pod I have is actually a 6800 that I converted to 6502. And to be honest I have no idea WHAT 6502 I put in there....so it might be a slower one (could even be one of the former east-block compatibles that I bought a while ago....which might not be the best of ideas....)

Luckily the first Asteroids board I had _does_ have a 6502A (dated 79, so must be original).

OK swapped it in and running tests as we speak (great to have to work at home sometimes ;))

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #100 on: August 19, 2015, 03:40:49 PM »
@Etienne: hah, you're absolutely right....total no go :)

Thanks for you help ! Hope Marco can scan the bezel for me :D:D:D

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2015, 03:50:59 PM »
Oh lordy.....if it really IS the 6502A then Jochen is going to get some drinks at the bar from me ! (Eurocade will make me poor this year ;))

And I had just made an offer on this this morning:

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/PCB-BOARD-ARCADE-NOT-JAMMA-ASTEROIDS-1979-ATARI-/191661739580?

....and it got accepted.....Oh well....I like having a back-up :)

I wonder what that little add-on PCB is...probably a speed hack or something ?

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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2015, 08:20:38 PM »
Sorry Jochen, looks like you're not getting those drinks at the bar ;);)

Too bad really and for almost two hours my hopes were high because it went through that time without resets. It was in attract mode mostly (but it happens then too) and I played some games without problems. Then I  started another session and sure enough there were some random vectors again......and after a while another reset.

However, I'm still quite thankful for that tip as it could well have been the problem ! Also....now I know I need to get an A version.

I'm pretty sure though that even in those times the chips all came from the same production line and just were tested differently. In fact, the A behind the 6502 is TOTALLY  stamped on "later" in the production process, it's about ten times as "bright" as the rest of the text......which would proofs how this went (and still goes today).

So....still,happy I bought that other board :) also ordered other parts to try and fix my first Asteroids PCB.



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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #103 on: August 21, 2015, 10:27:57 AM »
Ok since there is not service manual or schematics known for this baby, and I wanted to check pin out etc. anyway, I started documenting the entire harness and parts.

What I noticed in the process is that the transformer get pretty damn hot. Now....seeing it's a transformer brand/kind also used in Zaccaria cabs and remembering some very heft fans on Zaccaria cabs I wonder......
Is it normal for these transformers to get so hot ? Must say I never really tried to feel the temperature of a regular Atari Power Brick but it seems like this one is working on the edge of it's capacity.

Following this, I found out the primary lugs configuration and comparing it with the drawing of the Zaccaria I was confident enough to move the mains input to the higher rated input (245VAC ?).
Although the mains voltage in my house was about 227VAC at that moment, the output voltages were all pretty much on the high side of what they were specced.

So, to ease the heat a bit I moved the mains and it works fine. Output voltages are now at or a bit under spec but everything seems to work happily (don't think it will fix the random vector/reset issue though).

Next I decided to get the monitor out to clean the monitor area of the cab and of course the monitor too.
I was a bit in doubt, but I decided to wash the chassis PCBs like I do normally, with some detergent and in an nice bath of luke warm water :) of course dried it right after the bath with the wife's hairdryer !!!

The CRT I cleaned with glassex (bootleg version) and some paper towel/magic sponge.

The dust just _kept_ coming off....but it started to look better and better. The aquadag on this tube turns out to be very sturdy, not a sign of it getting loose. I measured it after the cleaning and got the expected results (within the kOhms is normal, depending on the distance between your test leads).

Pics follow later.

I checked all caps and all of them are indicating OK. However they are brands I never heard of and they do look original. They all are 85 degr. Types and since I was having some linearity issues I deciede to go for a full cap kit, except for the big filter caps. The  linearity could well be only an issue of setting up,the pots too, but anyway...

I reassembled everything to see if the wash hands harm anything and sure enough the picture came up happily as before :)

More about the Hantarex MTRV when I post pics...
In the process of checking stuff I noticed that the big filter cab on the HV PCB had a VERY loose soldering on one pin !!!  This shows that you need to check stuff, even if it seems to work OK. Not sure if I was just lucky that the cap made physical comtact or that it simply worked without filtering but I fixed it of course.

Still need to order some caps, could only find three correct values in my parts.


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Re: Games in space, with rocks and saucers......Atari Italy Asteroids
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2015, 05:39:02 PM »
OK pics:

Monitor removed from cab. Dirty as expected but not excessive.

The CRT has the usual burn, but it isn't that bad....flash pics reveal the burn much much more than when it's simply in the cab an running...