Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
December 08, 2021, 10:13:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: ALS'/DLF' : your daily dose of Arcade Life Style...inside the Dragon's Lair!
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Gallery Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 31 32 [33] 34 35 ... 46
  Print  
Author Topic: ## Road Trip ## GALAXIAN THEATER from NAMCO !!!  (Read 617660 times)
Jason42
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 19


View Profile
« Reply #480 on: March 21, 2013, 02:20:49 PM »

Hehe.. damn you, Level! Don't be so religious. Ok, let's take Star Wars '83 as en example. The Amplifone xy-monitor is a display device for vector games, meaning that several other vector games could be displayed on this monitor. However, since the Star War's hardware is dependant on that particular monitor (there aren't many monitors this game can use), I would call it original for the game.

In the case of Galaxian 3, you could, if you wanted, crunch the whole thing into a 2x CRT monitor cabinet, like the cabinet for Darius by Taito, the sound can be mixed into two channels, and the game could be played with analog joysticks in a much smaller environment. What makes G3 such a large enterprise is its cinema theme with projectors and multi-channel audio. However, nothing of that is original for the game. You can use any projector, any audio-system, that you please for the G3.

As for any lag in projectors, well, consider the game's property then. It is 60Hz, in 60 fps. The lag you mention will never be relevant within these frequencies.

I'm curious about the artifacting you mention. Please, explain more?

Picture size: Ok, this could be a problem. So before selecting a projector (have you ever been shopping for a projector?) you need to consider the picture size VS throw distance. This is always thoroughly described in the specifications in every handbook.

Have you ever compared an older CRT projector with a DLP, or LCD from 2010+?
To restore a CRT projector to better shape, it is required that you replace certain capacitors that have been close to hot spots, as well as all three R, G, B electron guns. This is not exactly cheap.

"I would trust the Namco PSU's in there now with the caps of that era a lot more than crappy china built PSU from today."

-  good point. 1999-2007 was the "bad-caps" era. But remember that every capacitor, chinese or japanese, has got its estimated life time. After that it's a gamble to leave it in the equipment. It could damage your game.

Btw, Level, have you made a cap-swap in your Star Wars yet?

Your point of "making the image better" is nonsense to me as... the whole retro arcade thing is to get the original crappy image.

if you want to play some pacman with a bright clear image you can juste use a mame with some 27" LED projector at 4k resolution, OR play the real thing on a real arcade with the original feeling,
it's the same here, the game was made for these things, not for the 2000 lumens with high contract the DLP projector have. it's not just display devices, it's part of the original game.

As for the "it will be costly to change things in there" i really doubt that some caps cost as much as an DLP or LCD projector lamp (or even a mod).
Logged
uncletom
Member
**
Posts: 243



View Profile
« Reply #481 on: March 21, 2013, 02:40:43 PM »

You missunderstand. I am not a MAME -man at all, I never mentioned any "MAME", so please leave MAME out of the subject.

It is always *the original hardware* that makes the game worth having, but as with cabinets, controls, speakers, displays.. etc, most of these things are consumables. It means that they are more or less generic components that you can get basically anywhere. Well, controllers like the laser-gun is ofcourse not a generic in this case.

".. i really doubt that some caps cost as much as an DLP or LCD projector lamp"

- I also wrote "RGB electron guns". Stuff like that is in shortage today. Years ago these were consumables and available as spare parts, but today they are rare and very expensive.

Anyway, you will not notice any scan-lines on the screen when sitting that far from the whiteboard. I am only focused on the projectors here. Not ugly mods or emulations, so don't even go there. If the originally supplied SONY projectors have a good enough picture, ofcourse they will not need changing, or servicing. Don't start a witch hunt now, I was merely suggesting a possible improvement to Brunos G3.
Logged
uncletom
Member
**
Posts: 243



View Profile
« Reply #482 on: March 21, 2013, 03:05:21 PM »

I am a great fan of anything CRT-based, contra LCD/DLP and any modern technology. *But* sometimes you need to compromise. It all depends on preference and needs. From what Bruno showed earlier here I've got a slight clue about the shape his CRT projectors may be in.

So to sum things up a bit, I 've check online for some facts so that we all understand the matter.

wiki CRT projector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRT_projector

And one other page worth reading. http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer_2.shtm

Just note that the last link, this guy updated his page back in 2006, so quite alot has happened to DLP and LCD display technology since then.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 03:07:18 PM by uncletom » Logged
Geosword X
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 54


View Profile WWW
« Reply #483 on: March 22, 2013, 01:01:34 AM »

BRUNO YOU HAVE DONE IT!!! Congratulations on all your hard work and effort!!! You now have a masterful piece of NAMCO history completely in working order! Now is time for a celebration! Time for GALACTIC DANCING!! Space Ace Space Ace Space Ace Space Ace pacman

(If only the Air Raid in my local area was re converted back to Galaxian 3.... Embarrassed)

Also Bruno, if you ever do multiplayer with your mates, could you record the game play in HD? And, I know this seems to be a stupid question but it was in my head for the last few months Tongue, please answer the best as possible (others are welcome to answer too):

For the CGI backgrounds for both Galaxian 3 & Attack of Zolgear, do you think the backgrounds were developed from the NAMCO SYSTEM 21 hardware itself or did they use more powerful computers to produce the backgrounds?

And also (another stupid question), of all the villains and bad guys I've encountered in video games, why does Zolgear appear to have a hole in his (its) head? You go inside the hole to enter his body to reach the brain core but why is it there in the first place? All I can come up with is that it could be a breathing apparatus or used for other body functions? Huh?

Anyways, congratulations once again and I'll be checking in for future installments!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 01:18:30 AM by Geosword X » Logged

leonk
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 89


View Profile
« Reply #484 on: March 22, 2013, 03:57:11 AM »

Wow! There's so much misinformation here that its scary. Here's my $0.02 on what was said and what I believe to be true:

- "we should all switch to LCD 4k resolution but don't because we want original picture" - truth is LCD is brighter than CRT tube for much longer. CRT tubes dim over time no matter how many cap kits you do on it. LCD has more than enough resolution to reproduce the CRT scan lines (which is actually what you love about arcade CRT). The reason why people stick to CRT is aspect ratio. Good luck finding a 4x3 25" LCD. They're all 16x9 and is the main reason many haven't switched. Classic games were made for 4x3

- "switch to LCD / DLP" - depends on which technology you use. Please don't use single chip DLP. Many people are still sensitive to the color wheel technology, they see color rainbows on white line edges. Also good projectors are EXPENSIVE. You want a projector that outputs same lumens at all colors (cheap ones are only tested at white and even cheat by adding a clear filter for white on the color wheel!)

Bottom line, eventually you will need to go to new projector as cost of bringing these beasts back to life wouldn't make sense and even if you do, you won't have the results you want. On the other hand if you do go LCOS, 3LCD or 3xDLP prepare to spend thousands for something worthwhile for this beast. But you will not regret it.
Logged
dummyload
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #485 on: March 22, 2013, 06:07:51 PM »

 Congratulations Bruno , great achievement .
I have seen this game in 2004 when i was visiting blankenberge and the blue tube of one of the projectors was already not working.
I would refurbish the sony projectors then with same luck they can last another decade (or two).

qoute from leonk
Bottom line, eventually you will need to go to new projector as cost of bringing these beasts back to life wouldn't make sense and even if you do, you won't have the results you want. On the other hand if you do go LCOS, 3LCD or 3xDLP prepare to spend thousands for something worthwhile for this beast. But you will not regret it.

When the projectors are refurbished and have tubes with no burn in why would he not have the results he wants.
You say refurbish the sony's will be to expensive but have to prepared for spending  thousands to go digital ,goinging with the sony's wil be a lot cheaper and are optimal for the game. (think curved sreen and blend)
Logged
leonk
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 89


View Profile
« Reply #486 on: March 22, 2013, 06:38:35 PM »

When the projectors are refurbished and have tubes with no burn in why would he not have the results he wants.
You say refurbish the sony's will be to expensive but have to prepared for spending  thousands to go digital ,goinging with the sony's wil be a lot cheaper and are optimal for the game. (think curved sreen and blend)

There are parts of a CRT projector that can't be refurbished without purchasing another CRT projector and doing a transplant.  That's what I was trying to explain about not getting the results you want.  This is no different than doing a chassis transplant on a CRT monitor.
Logged
dummyload
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #487 on: March 22, 2013, 06:57:38 PM »

But you can buy them for about 100$ from crt palm (the link you provided)
With good tubes and even a warranty the schipping will be the biggest cost.
And even locally they can be found sometimes ,this sony serie 10xx is video grade
and thats why they are cheap now and will be obsolete in the near future ,so for spares now
is the time. And yes am a bit biased  ,crt projection is one of my other hobbies.
 Cheesy
Logged
Etienne MacGyver
ArcadeLifeStyler'
***
Posts: 7587


The Netherlands


View Profile
« Reply #488 on: March 22, 2013, 07:22:18 PM »

I believe bruno has a spare projector, so he has extra parts AFAIK
Logged
Level42
ArcadeLifeStyler'
***
Posts: 13554


Ridderkerk, arcade capital of Europe !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #489 on: March 22, 2013, 11:42:25 PM »

CRT projectors can be rejuvenated but of course that won't solve any burn...
Logged

leonk
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 89


View Profile
« Reply #490 on: March 23, 2013, 04:07:03 AM »

CRT projectors can be rejuvenated but of course that won't solve any burn...

Some also believe this shortens the life of the CRT.

Don't get me wrong. My new astro city has a 29" MS9.  It'll be a cold day in hell before I put an LCD in there. But one day in the future I might have to.
Logged
uncletom
Member
**
Posts: 243



View Profile
« Reply #491 on: March 23, 2013, 11:43:29 AM »

Ofcourse first of all the option to use the supplied (original) projectors should be explored. But if any of them show too much screen burn or if picture is too dark, then a DLP projector would do the job very nicely. There are still 4:3 projectors available, not all are 16:9.

I've bought my BenQ MP522 'DLP 4.3' projector maybe 5 years ago, and I'm very pleased with it, even now after about 8000 lamp hours it still has a great picture. And the lamp hours are specified to max 5000 in eco mode, so I'm surprised that the picture has been this good after almost twice its lamp life.

I'm just saying that even *if* the CRT projectors aren't working satisfactory, then there is still hope for a great picture anyway.

But, something to check very thoroughly, if replacing the projectors, is the new throw distance and picture size. It *must* match the SONY's.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 11:45:22 AM by uncletom » Logged
DarthNuno
Administrator
ArcadeLifeStyler'
*****
Posts: 11639


Singe's castle


View Profile WWW
« Reply #492 on: March 23, 2013, 05:38:25 PM »

SEASON 07 - FIXING THE THEATER

EPISODE 03: Flight Of Icarus
Starring : Darth Nuno, Alain (my neighbor)


In the previous episode, remember, I played my first game in a 'degraded mode'...



...'degraded mode' meaning a game with the right picture 'blue color component missing'  Undecided

It's 'funny' because when you have a look at the right projector (pictured on the left in the following picture), you can see the blue tube 'on', and if you put your eye against it, you can see the blue part of the picture inside...but something inside (and its not a simple 'lamp' to change like others kind of projectors) is not powerful enough to project the blue part of the picture on the screen... Lips Sealed Note the other projector shines like a sun!  Cool



During my first game, I haven't noticed one of the four sounds channels was missing, which I discovered during this 'sound' test  arrow



'Front Right' sound is missing!

Many possibilities :

- The laser disc player output
- The amps output
- The speaker himself
- Wires between all that stuff

OK let's start by the end... the front speakers...



Let's inverse them (the wires)...



OK, the sound supposed to be 'front left' is now playing on the right speaker, and this time no sound coming from the front left speaker. It means that the problem is before the speakers, so let's see the amp that manages the sounds for the front (screen) of the theater.
Hey too easy, after slowly moving one the cinch at the back of the amp, the missing sound channel is back, hell yeah!  Kiss



While I'm here, let's also check the theater lighting, and figure out what have to be replaced in a next stage...



...that could be worse after so many years of sleep, 'cold' locations and moves...cool!  Cool

Ok, back of the right projector problem (blue missing). I fortunately have a spare one!  Grin I got it from Bigjeje during this event. It's a special projector... because it was used on an other Galaxian Theater! The one located in Paris, in 'La tÍte dans les nuages" game room, the biggest one in Paris at the time. Bigjeje is working there, and he sold me the last GT6 parts left...including that projector!
But I never tested it, so it'll be the surprise!
After replacing the 'right project' by that *spare* one, with the help of Alain, my neighbor, let's power on that monster again!  arrow



Bluuuuuuue!!! yeahhhh!!!!





After setting the projectors alignments...



Let's try to have the best color settings on both projector...





Not perfect for sure, but I'm moooooooooooooore than happy with that!  Kiss Kiss Kiss
 


Now it's time for a game in 'better condition', isn't it?  Roll Eyes Tongue



Welcome the the Nuno's Lair V3 arrow



 Cool
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 05:48:32 PM by DarthNuno » Logged

shrunkenmaster
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 56



View Profile
« Reply #493 on: March 23, 2013, 06:02:11 PM »

Be careful Bruno when you 'put your eye against it'  Grin

Seriously though, I am in awe of your dedication. This is a huge undertaking and you have performed a miracle in getting this beast up and running!
Logged
Etienne MacGyver
ArcadeLifeStyler'
***
Posts: 7587


The Netherlands


View Profile
« Reply #494 on: March 23, 2013, 06:30:40 PM »

Logged
Pages: 1 ... 31 32 [33] 34 35 ... 46
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!