Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: DarthNuno on August 23, 2009, 04:39:41 PM
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I believe my soldering station is not enough powerful to do a clean job when I'm doing this :-\ :arrow:
(http://www.transistek.com/photos_produits/1/tresse_dessouder_2_54mm_x_30m-chem-wik_lb.jpg)
...and so I would like to buy a new one.
Any good advice for a good (very good) Solder and more important Desolder Station to buy and where?
Thanks :-*
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haven't had the "pleasure" to use one, but a lot of people adviced me to simply use desoldering wick / braid instead of a whole station!
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I am very satisfied with my "Weller WS50" for soldering
(http://www.mutron.nl/images/weller/ws50.jpg)
and i have a "Pace" desolder station wich is also satisfying
(http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/images/p/425-674.01_s300_p1.jpg)
I dont know where to buy it since i received it from my old company when they where closing the business...
but there must be a store wich sells these machines
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I did some google searches for you and came upon this add:
http://www.kapaza.be/Elektrische_apparaten/Elektronica_meetapparatuur/19981306/Pace_soldderstation.html (http://www.kapaza.be/Elektrische_apparaten/Elektronica_meetapparatuur/19981306/Pace_soldderstation.html)
(http://images.kapaza.com/photoslarge/19900000/19981306.jpg)
the only thing missing here is the vacuum filter as far as i can see, bit it not really nessesary since in the gun also one exist
(http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages/farnell/thumbnail/SD1309002006-40.jpg)
Its in begium i think , because the site is .be
Maybe this is a nice one for you , because these machines can be very expensive as i have heard.
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I believe my soldering station is not enough powerful to do a clean job when I'm doing this :-\ :arrow:
(http://www.transistek.com/photos_produits/1/tresse_dessouder_2_54mm_x_30m-chem-wik_lb.jpg)
...and so I would like to buy a new one.
Any good advice for a good (very good) Solder and more important Desolder Station to buy and where?
Thanks :-*
Tu peux demander à Fabrice sur gamoover ?
il vient d'en acheter une il y a peu de temps, et c'est avec elle qu'il a remis en route une de ses GTI club.
Sorry :
You can maybe ask Fabrice on gamoover, he just bought one, and it's with it that he fixed one of his GTI club.
http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=19702 (http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=19702)
Even if you don't understand, many pictures help to undestand how he fixed his board.
And I'm talking about CMS component replacement.
Even with soldering station, it's a bit tricky and requires 'state of the art' soldering skills... :'(
And without, it's just impossible.
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thanks for these informations :-*
Well, the picture is not a good example, I'm just looking for desoldering big old chips on old boards, not small chips like the ones on model 2 boards for example ;)
I think the problem I've now is because my soldering tool is not powerful enough, and I've to stay too long on the board... and so I *almost* damage it :-[ ... like this :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/sip2/sound5.jpg)
I really need something more accurate.
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from experience i can tell you that it will help also to add some fresh solder, when its mixed with the old solder, then the old solder melts easier.
or just apply flux, thats the same component that is inside the fresh solder.
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While i was reading the battlezone pages of arcadefever , i saw he had a desoldering tool :
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3636/dscf0003yg7.jpg)
It looks as this is a cheaper alternative that a solder station.
i cannot say if it works good or not because i dont have experience with these kind of desoldering devices.
another version (http://www.dj-electronics-ennogveelmeer.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=375) i found on the web looks like it uses the same process
(http://www.dj-electronics-ennogveelmeer.nl/images/Gereedschap/203849.jpg)
and its only 7,95€ so that is not too much money to give it a try ::)
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(http://www.dj-electronics-ennogveelmeer.nl/images/Gereedschap/203849.jpg)
and its only 7,95€ so that is not too much money to give it a try ::)
and the same is here (http://www.baco-army-goods.nl/product_429.html) only 4,95€ ;D
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I've got one like that. It's OK, but I often have to use it in combination with my regular soldering station.
It just doesn't heat up very quick and probably not hot enough.
I still prefer to use a regular soldering station (I've got an ERSA RDS80) with a hand-pump.
The one pictured is nice if you need to do big solderings like monitor stuff or f.i. Atari's power supply (AR2) boards, but I am scared to suck up soldering islands with it on game PCBs.
Bruno, what you did there we call "baking" :D
Indeed, either too low temperature applied too long OR not having fluxed the old solderings. ALWAYS add a little new solder first when you want to work on old solderings. Because of the age, the flux has gone from the solder, so it is very hard to get it melted. Add a bit new solder and it will run fine.
I could teach you a bit how to solder when we meet next time.
I've also been thinking about making a video, but there are a number of them already.
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@Darthnuno: I think You need something like this: http://cgi.ebay.it/STAZIONE-SALDANTE-E-DISSALDANTE-DGT-A-LCD-SSD-87-PACK_W0QQitemZ190321565665QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAttrezzature_e_strumentazione?hash=item2c500c9fe1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
The auction is in Italian, but You can find some similar on Ebay.de ;)
Personally I use an Accord SI250 (from 150°C to 420°C) and a Philips Soldering Station SBS206 for desoldering components.
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Yeah, those are very nice if you need to desolder a lot. Or have plenty money to spend. But if you only desolder every now and then it's a bit overkill.
But indeed much better than the hand-pump stuff.
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I could teach you a bit how to solder when we meet next time.
I've also been thinking about making a video, but there are a number of them already.
i haven't had the "pleasure" to use my soldering station, although i have a good one. i for sure could use some teaching ...
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Nice basic lesson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLfXXRfRIzY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLfXXRfRIzY)
Cirquitboard soldering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDa2Wvk8I&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDa2Wvk8I&feature=fvw) Bad instruction (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=922.msg8116#msg8116) 8)
Basic desoldering with solder wick or pump http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-_pnc-Qqm8&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-_pnc-Qqm8&feature=channel)
and a nother one for you ully ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4&feature=related)
and one that shows how my pace desolder device works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8nX2yD96AM&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8nX2yD96AM&feature=channel)
and if you don't own the correct tools you can also go this way (http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm) ;D
But anybody has some broken electrical part where you can practice on i think
the most important thing is clean parts, no oxidation! its the same as soldering cupper waterpipes in your house (for those who ever have done this)
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thx for those links, etienne!
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Thanks to all of you for the help on this :-* :-* :-*
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Cirquitboard soldering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDa2Wvk8I&feature=fvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNDa2Wvk8I&feature=fvw)
BAAAAD BAD BAD VIDEO ! Ignore this one please. The first one is better. He is heating it for WAY too long on this video. That "bubbling" is really not neccesary. Just see if the solder flows "like water". Once it's settled remove the heat. Not much of an issue on a big resistor and big soldering pad like that, but on IC's this is way too long.
Also, he's adding too much solder. A good soldering looks like mount Fuji (or like the Atari logo ;)). No bulbs.
It _is_ true that a soldering should look shiny once done. If it's looking dull you probably moved the leg/component while the solder settled.
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hey andré, can i book you for a weekend of "how to repair classic arcade games"? 8)
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Yup. Cost is one night of sleep, beer, bbq and lot's of
chicks games to play with ;D ;D ;D
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Any good advice for a good (very good) Solder and more important Desolder Station to buy and where?
Thanks :-*
For soldering, if you can afford it, I very highly recommend a Metcal station, it's day and night compared to anything else I've ever used.
I have a Metcal SP200 and I'm set for life :) ( http://www.okinternational.com/product_soldering/sp200 (http://www.okinternational.com/product_soldering/sp200) )
For desoldering, a desolder station with built in pump works best, they're not cheap though.
I have a Xytronics one that isn't bad, but I can pass these things off as professional costs which helps.
Then again, I've never had trouble desoldering with braid and the metcal (the temperature depends on the tip you use, it's automatic) either.
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BAAAAD BAD BAD VIDEO ! Ignore this one please.
It's modified (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=922.msg8084#msg8084) 8)
totally true, it looks like this guy is frying his parts :D
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Actually, it's still very educational if it would say: How NOT to solder ;)
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Nuno : when you will find the material you like, you can contact me because i am interested too buy this material for the Daytona USA video board.
Bad Video RAMs CMS on 2 boards :(
Sorry for my bad english :oops:
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Well, maybe this one :lol:
(http://www.conrad.fr/1805145/grande/prix-a-partir-de-309.00/outillage-soudage/station-de-soudage-et-dessoudage-numerique.jpg)
Here's the specs (in French) :
Affichage numérique pour le fer à souder comme pour le fer à dessouder. Stabilité de température : la température de la panne est réglée avec une précision de ±3°C (6°F). Protection contre les crêtes de tension et les pointes de courant : pas d'interférence d'autres appareils grâce à la mise à la terre et la connexion 'zéro cross'. Réglage électronique de la température : température réglable sans remplacement de la panne. Commutateur à vide : la fonction aspiratoire est réglée par un thyristor à commande manuelle, qui se trouve sur la poignée pour des raisons pratiques. Pompe à vide indépendante, assure l'opération en continu sans maintenance. Alimentation isolée : station alimentée par un transformateur 24 VCA haute qualité. Les fers à souder (poignée miniature ergonomique) et à dessouder sont faciles à utiliser, démonter et remplacer. Alimentation : 230 VAC. Élément de chauffe : 60 W/24 VAC. Alimentation pompe à vide : 230 VAC. Température : soudage : 200 - 480°C (400 - 900°F) ; dessoudage : 300 - 450°C (570 - 850°F). Dim : 320 x 250 x 145 mm. Poids : 6,5 kg.
A little bit expensive, but it looks like a great 'all in one' : 309€ (here the link (http://www.conrad.fr/station_de_soudage_et_dessoudage_numerique_p_19500_19537_455931_455932_FAS))
There is a build in 'vacuum cleaner', that would be a great help for desoldering :P
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that "vacuum cleaner" really does the job ;) thats why i love my PACE
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Ouch ! very expansive :o
It's a Rolls Royce ?! :P
well i continue my search for a good soldering station ;D
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I believe my soldering station is not enough powerful to do a clean job when I'm doing this :-\ :arrow:
(http://www.transistek.com/photos_produits/1/tresse_dessouder_2_54mm_x_30m-chem-wik_lb.jpg)
LOL ... I understand now why It's so hard :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/qbert/qbert_boot9.jpg)
...only 15W :oops: I really need something more powerful!
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i have to dig up this thread with a solder question:
i need to solder some new capacitors onto a pcb. i can set my soldering station to different temperatures. which temperature (range) do i have to choose so that i'm not cooking the pcb, but have enough temperature to do a nice clean solder job?
come out, you solder experts! ;D
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370 degrees.
That's my "all-round" setting.
HOWEVER, not cooking a part has more to do with TIME then temperature.
If you apply the iron too long, you will start to bake/cook/burn. The parts are designed to be able to handle a certain amount of heat, but too long is not good. You'll probably start to burn the tracks sooner than the parts with those oldies though.....
Important:
Tin your iron before any soldering. Re-tin it every once a while during soldering and remove excess solder from the tip (sponge or "flick" it)
Add a little new soldering tin when trying to get the old solderings to flow. The flux in the new soldering will get the old solder running again (the flux in the old solder has dried out/disappeared over the years). If you don't do this, you can keep the hot tip to the old soldering for "ages" but it _won't_ flow, or will flow very late and poorly.
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thx andré!
i'll have to get a board from an old vcr (or something similar) first to do some solder testing - don't want to ruin my pcb because of "noob-ness" :-\
what's the best method to get old capacitors off a board? turn the board on its back, heat the solder joints and suck off the old solder?
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Basically yes. In theory and ideally you suck all the solder away on both pins and will be able to remove the cap. May work with caps, but it's sometimes hard. You can also pull a bit on the cap while having the solder "fluid".
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yeah, wiggle it out while heating the points "left-right-left-right-left-right" if you know what i mean :D
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question regarding a desoldering station: do they all work with compressed air which sucks the old solder into some kind of glass vial?
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the one that i have does
i think all do
by the way , its not compressed air, but a vacuum pump