Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: level42 on August 10, 2015, 01:17:16 AM
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I have a weird relationship with this game.....they never seem to stay.......there always seems to be a
bigger better fish.....
1) Meteor by Hoei -> Now living happily in a Museum in Denmark
2) Asterock by Sidam -> Now in good hands on the east side of the country....hope it has returned to working condition already...
3) Asteroids project shell with loads of parts.....still waiting for a big restorations/assembly....
4) .......................mmmmmm, what do we get when we mix some of the above ingredients...........
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No one curious about this ? No ? Mmm....... OK :D
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I guess some Italian Asteroids?
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Asteroids deluxe ?
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Blasteroids?
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CKONG, you are cheating !
:D
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Picking this beautiful Italian lady up tomorrow !!!! FINALLY a (short) Road-Trip story again :D
Notice that Italian "Ferrari" flair:
- shiny side art
- real silver T-molding (Well OK ....chrome look :D)
- real silver coin door with special Atari Italy logo (OK, it's aluminium :D)
- green buttons........(OK those look like shit, but it's original !)
- Atari Italy - Bertolino Marquee. Sadly the original Bertolino plexi bezel is missing...
The machine also lacks the backdoor and the monitor only shows a vertical line but hey....that should be a piece of cake...
PCB seems to run the game.
I think from the pics I see also one (silvery) Atari cone button is also missing.
This is the best of both worlds for me: a Euro version cab AND original Atari ;)
It also takes one project from my list: Asteroids.
Looks like fixing the monitor, putting a button on and making a coin door are on the list to do, but that's a lot less work than I had waiting for me ;)
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Where will you put this ;D
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CKONG, you are cheating !
:D
Cheating? No, I just read your sales topic and draw the conclusion. Congratulations BTW. :)
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Where will you put this ;D
In the place where the Asteroids shell I currently have is of course :D
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Last time I checked you were already lacking one space :)
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Last time I checked you were already lacking one space :)
Are you my wife or something ?
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Things have actually improved a bit. But yes that Asteroids shell needs to go quickly :D
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;D ;D ;D
Last time I checked you were already lacking one space :)
Are you my wife or something ?
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Yayyy! A new old project :)
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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;D
Kidnapping another cab from your country Chris ;D
Does anybody know if the Italian plexi bezel art is available for download ?
I thought I saw it once but can't find it now....thought vectorlib had it but it's not there.
Alternatively, Vernimark, can you scan yours ?
(here's Vernimark's Italian Asteroids....
http://www.vernimark.com/?cat=11
looks like the green buttons and chrome T-molding were replaced.....also note the coin counter,it's at 30 !!!!!!!! Played this machine not too long ago :D)
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is this the actual cabinet you are getting ?
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6521.0;attach=11188;image)
Liiks like they have put a decal over the coindoor decal.
if its damaged and you need a replacement... ;)
(http://www.easywebshop.com/shops/arcadedecals/5226066-1.jpg) (http://www.easywebshop.com/arcadedecals/detail/5226066-atari-italy-flli-bertolino-coindoor-decal)
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Yeah I saw that too....hope it comes off without damage but of not....it's great to know this is already available :):):)
The bezel at Vectorlib does have the yellow text on the left side, so all that is missing it is tephe Atari logo with Italy and Berolini info....but still need to compare for details...
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Nice find! Here in Jordan no cabinet at all :D anyway i ll try to scan the plexy asap
are you sure the silver t molding is original? I ve never seen silver t molding on bertolino s cabs
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Thats awesome, thanks !!
I'm not sure....BUT....remember the Bertolino Centipede that Laszo now ownes ? That one has chrome as well.....maybe the operators could order it as an option ? ;););)
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Only picture from the Italian Centi I could find, left of the SI you can "just" see the T-molding....
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3541.0;attach=2734;image)
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If this helps, I have an extra asteroids bezel with yellow text (but of course not the Bertollini logo).
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If this helps, I have an extra asteroids bezel with yellow text (but of course not the Bertollini logo).
Stop posting here and enjoy your holiday among the greeks! ;D ;D ;D
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Thats awesome, thanks !!
I'm not sure....BUT....remember the Bertolino Centipede that Laszo now ownes ? That one has chrome as well.....maybe the operators could order it as an option ? ;););)
It is gold, like the zacc cabs allthough some think it is the plastic that yellowed, I'm still confinced that it was really a gold finish. This t molding is also on my research list 😑
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Good I hope you find it because I agree, this stuff has a golden sheen over it !!!
Here's a preview of the "roadtrip". IF the shiny T-molding has been done by the operator, they did a very thorough job, making it go all the way around the cab....but I don't believe that.....this is factory.
By the way, see that short chain under the bottom ? I thought it was maybe an anti-theft feature but it turns out it is a ground point !!!
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Pretty sure its transparant T molding with aluminium inside.
Zaccs have this also, and i think its an Italian thing.
The bronze/gold color is the colorfading of the transparant due to whatever reason.
maybe its the same issue as the old plastics and its the fire retardant that causes the discoloring.
Here a pic of the bottom of my zacc, it has the T molding damaged because i dont have the leg levelers in, you can see the exposed aluminium.
also if you look to the right side next to the damage, it looks bronze/gold, but left looks siverisch:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5943.0;attach=8667;image)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5943.0;attach=8669;image)
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Mmmmmmm....interesting...
The molding is also pretty flat right ? And I haven't measured but Im sure the panels and thuss the molding is metric sized.
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I have been looking for years for replacement T molding, goodluck finding that...
and yes, its pretty flat
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Not flat but....
http://www.arcadeworlduk.com/products/Chrome-15mm-T-Molding.html
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Thats high gloss like a mirror, in other words (IMHO)Ghetto.
Only buy that if you want your cabinet to look like this...:
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g275/sbahman/DSC07023.jpg)
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allthough some think it is the plastic that yellowed
I think so.
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Well Etienne, the sides actually DO look that glossy..........and the more I look at it, the more I like it !!!
It totally makes the black deeper and the colors jump out. It's just cheapness and laziness that the U.S. And Irish games didn't have this.....
The Namco Galaxian is nice and shiny too :D
It's totally wrong what they did with that Nintendo of course, whoever did that should face life sentence...
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Oh about that chrome T-molding nahhh, I'd never put that on it.....it's TOO silvery, like a mirror indeed, the stuff on their now has kind of a matt finish which makes it look much more classy.
I had another look, and if its aging that makes the gold sheen, it has aged amazingly even all around the machine......usually parts that see no sunlight are not or less effected......that is, if it is the same thing as with plastic casings discoloring...
Anyway....it stays....including damages here and their...already cleaned some of those parts up pretty well.
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Too bad there are no flyers from those machines from Bertolino.....all I can find are these three:
http://www.flyerfever.com/search/Bertolino
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SO......I got an e-mail last sunday night from a very good friend in the hobby well......he's a pinball guy really (not on this forum) but we know each other for quite some years now.
He says he bought a "lot" of pinballs and took some "video's" (as they call them :D) along the way. Three of them were generic cabs with various PCBs but one of them was an Asteroids. He sent two pictures and asked if I'd might know someone who would be interested, and if there still was some value for a machine like this.
He said right away the rectifier on the power "brick" was dead and that there was only a vertical, somewhat moving line on the screen.
From the pics, I immediately saw that it was an Italian Asteroids, a machine which I had very recently played near Milano Italy :)
SO yeah, I knew someone interested: ME ! :D
What a chance to do a very quick by-pass on this mega-project that I still had waiting as project nr.X....
So we agreed on a price that we were both happy with and that I'd pick it up on tuesday afternoon.
Was working in Moerdijk, which was already a bit in the direction of Belgium from my home, so I decided to drive up directly from work (removed a bunch of work stuff from the car first...didn't need it that day anyway....)
Was working at a huge tyre trading company where they have more tires than anyone can imagine, and this is just one of their many large buildings around there...it makes you wonder where they all go....but then again millions of cars only in our little country...
The inside of the hall you see....that single building has 8 halls like that...it's crazy...
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So I'm done at about 16h. and drive off....this is a huge industrial area famous for big fires ;)
Here's another big company....do you know what they produce ? Substrates to grow mushrooms on (Champigons)....yeah...
Well that's all very interesting but I have more important things to do. The travel time is only about an hour, I need to be just a bit south of Antwerp.
It's holiday time so the roads are nice and calm these days, I'm expecting a trouble free drive...
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However as soon as I get near Antwerp it seems that my good friends the Belges (love them, they make the best beer in the world, and usually they are nice and calm people ;)) seem to not understand that in holiday time you are expected to not create any traffic jams..... ;D
For like it seems no reason at all the Kennedy tunnel has a speed limit of 70 and following that there is this traffic jam :(
There is also another tunnel around the city but that is TOLL and we Dutch hate paying TOLL, we're just not used to it. (We already pay LOADS of other taxes....)
Also....there are no traffic information panels on the routes to Antwerp so I had no clue about the traffic situation....O well....
It's not that horrible, just 15 minutes more travel time...
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Once through the tunnel there were no more problems and quickly I arrived at the seller's place.
We had a nice chat (also with his dad, a collector of those amazing ancient Bingo machines) and the Asteroids was already there waiting for me....
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No back door so I can quickly inspect the inside. Standard AR-I board and PCB but.........there IS a surprise:
A Hantarex Vector monitor !!!! NICEEEEEEE :) :) :)
I was surprised since Vernimark's machine has a G05-801 inside.... ( http://www.vernimark.com/?cat=11 ), I had checked that website before of course :)
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After more relaxed chatting it was time to load the machine. I've had the Asteroids shell in my trusty Octavia before so I knew it was an easy fit.
This is the last haul I did with this car, as I will be starting a new job per october first....
Hey this machine has a little "tail" under it ! This turns out to be a grounding point.....WEIRD !!!
You can also see the "car stereo" speaker grill, another typical feature of the Italian version :)
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Just before I leave I took a look at the brand new Kiss pinball machine and even though I'm not a big Kiss fan........this is one LOVELY pinball machine and it made me want to rob the local bank so I could order one......drool !!!
The drive back was smooth and boring...the cab didn't crack or make other funny noises like the usually do....this seems to be one sturdy baby !
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Yes yes....almost at your new home, the Arcade Capital of Europe, soon many arcade-nuts from all over Europe will arrive here, can't wait !!!! :)
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SO.....once arrived Mrs.Level 42 agreed that I could put the machine in my favorite "first inspection spot".....yep....for a day or two....yep....
The machine looks pretty damn nice, but it sure has it's "battle scars". The usual dents and scrapes on the sides, the usual %#*+$?!!%^ cigarette burns on the CP and some weird spots of gunk on the T-molding. Even a bit of writing on the CP...
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That writing was no match for my magic spong, but the cigarette burns will require some more attention...if possible at all...
Even the CP seems to have some kind of glossy transparant paint over it, it almost feels like plastic, but it's still a metal panel for sure...the great thing about that clear paint layer is that the artwork itself hasn't faded a bit !!! Compared to the U.S./Irish panels this is pretty rare...I'll make a pic of the one I have on offer now, it has worn so badly that the paint went off completely and the bare metal rusted....anyway, another + for Bertolino !
The T-molding really improved from a bit of magic sponge too:
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To be continued....
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Very nice catch !
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Very nice, love the road trip.... Did you play the kiss? It is the first one i have seen so far in benelux.
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Cool! Congrats, and thanks for the nice writeup. Perhaps we get to see this in action at Eurocade?
On a sidenote, it made me think of Belgian beer. *droooool*.
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No there wasnt really time to play anything but.........we agreed to go and play one "op café" in the fall :):)
Thanks guys and yes......there might be a pretty good chance the Asteroids will make it to Eurocade :):)
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So I got out the magic sponge and carefully went all over the outside, it is always amazing how many small spots you find on cabs and they disappear "magically" most of the time :)
Now the operator at one point in time decided 5F wasn't enough for a game of Asteroids (or was this always so Belgian friends ?) So he changed the set-up of the board and carefully installed a sticker RIGHT OVER THE UNIQUE ATARI ITALY/BERTLINO LOGO !!!!! Was he crazy or something ? ;) ;) ;)
As if they cared about such things, LOL.
Anyway I feared it had been there for a LONG time and although sometimes operator stickers are actually nice, and other times you have no choice to leave them on I decided in this case I really wanted it gone so......let's give it a try.....
https://youtu.be/x5VDFgGbXzc
AMAZING !!!! Love that sticker manufacturer for using great glue !!!
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Looks like the machine _has_ seen use before it switched to 2x5F....
A look at the Hantarex....to the far right you see the HV cage, left next to it is the power supply board. Left to that is the deflection board......I like it !
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This one's for Etienne....also....bit weird such a text....mmmm....
Looks like they didn't make too many......hand-written serial label....Dated: January 1980.
By the way, incidentally visited Firenze (Florence) a couple of weeks ago....beautiful place....nice to know where the Hanti's came from :)
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Mmmmm.....nice, Euro-sized fuses on the monitor (in the distance, right in front of the green connector) but.....mmmm, those look not too healthy.....mmmmmm.....
Regular AR-I board...so they got these from Atari U.S.
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Regular game PCB also from the U.S.
A bit further down it gets more interesting again....this is different from Vernimark's Asteroids as his has a metal Power Brick but here they simply mounted everyting on a plank....and why not indeed ;) Maybe this was an early machine ? No idea....
Look at that wonderful mains plug....earth wire cut...no insulation in the plug etc.....f-ing amateurs....and the wire is like 10 cm. long !?!?!?
O well, will give it a nice new mains wire with molded plug :)
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Now, the seller already told me the voltage rectifier was bust, so he removed the outgoing wire from the Big Blue cap as a precaution.
Robin had seen the Asteroids posted on my Facebook page and I felt he was interested to see it and also....it was time for a cup-of -coffee and a chat anyway so I asked him over to come have a look.
So we first had a look at those rectifiers. On LL and Asteroids Power bricks there are small PCBs with two big diodes which do a half-wave rectification.
Here the set-up was similar but....I was puzzled by what I was looking at. It turned out to be some totally weird diodes which I've never seen before. They were soldered on one side to the fuse holders (both fuses were blown, no wonder because both diodes were totally shorted and thus needed to be replaced).
The other side was kinda held together by a clamp, electrically connecting them and the wire that runs to the plus of the Big Blue.
There was a bit of confusion but I checked and showed the manual to Robin and it's easy enough to understand. We removed the diodes, tested them again (both full short) and so we had to think of replacing them somehow because we were both very curious to see if there would be some life in the machine :)
I thought I still had some pretty fat diodes around but couldn't find them, but then we got the ida that we could use "half" a diode bridge. I have a couple of those in my stack of shit..I mean parts boxes, so got one out, checked it and hooked it up temporarily....
We could simple solder the AC coming from both fuses to the AC in of the bridge rectifier, and the + to the outgoing wire to the Big Blue.
The minus output has nothing to do in this situation since we only need a half rectification (in fact, trying to hook up the minus to anything would result in disaster ;)
Now anyone ever seen this type of diodes ? I have seen lots of kinds but this was new to me...
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Here's the master soldering in the temporary diode bridge.
Looks like this...
So.....we dared to power it up now...everything connected....let's go....
Well what we see basically is a vertical stripe but it's clear enough that there are objects moving and you can even see the brighter bullets of the attract mode....this is a great sign as it shows there is life in the PCB :)
So next step: what could be the horizontal deflection not working ?
Well usually on other vector monitors it often means that one (or more) of the big power transistors has failed. So I check them all but there are no devastating shorts on any....
SO...let's check the fuses. There are always fuses to protect the X (horizontal) and Y (vertical) deflection coils in the yoke...
So no surprise, we measure an open on the horizontal one....mmmm could it _REALLY_ be "just a fuse".
So we pop in a new Euro sized fuse and....same picture....mmmm...
OK we need to get out the monitor. We already had carefully removed the cardboard bezel (still original staples, it was never removed !!!) but Robin has a look and sees we can do a short-cut by removing only the chassis from the backside. So we do this, no lightning bolts when removing the HV cup so that was nice.
We measured some more transistors then Robin decides to measure the fuses again from the solder side and........we have an open on the horizontal deflection !!! But there was a brand new (tested!) fuse !!!
Well indeed turns out the fuse holder was really so bad that it wouldn't contact at all !!!!!!
Replaced BOTH fuse holders (nice to have some stock) and the fuses and put back the chassis.....and..............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUPjweet9M
(http://img.youtube.com/vi/dMUPjweet9M/0.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUPjweet9M)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/player.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUPjweet9M)
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Never saw those diodes, but they sure look beefy !
Cool, Its just a fuse.. nice Fix !
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So we were really happy to see that and decided that was enough work for the evening and enjoyed some chat and drinks...
I powererd up the machine after Robin had left and although I had the moving screen again I really wanted to see if I could start a game. Had put it on free-play but the P2 button doesn't respond an the P1 button is missing altogether.
I figured out which wire color was connected to the P1 pin using this:
https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/spies.cgi?action=url&type=pinout&page=Asteroids.txt
so I could start a game...however, I noticed that there were some weird vectors going on on the screen and also that sometimes when that happened the game resets. (It probably crashes and the watch-dog restarts it).
This is typical behavior of bad ROM contacts and indeed there was a lot of black corrosion gunk on the ROMS.
I guess this happens because the dual-wipe sockets look to be gold (or brass ?) sockets where the pins of the chips are "silvery" stuff....anyway, two different metals react is what I've learned at school.
So today I polished all the pins of the ROMs but....I still have resets. I did manage to play one game completely though, so in essence the board is working.
I bet it's just a matter of replacing the sockets.
And yes of course I regulated the +5V measuring at the end of the board ;) In fact I checked all voltages incl. ripple on the Big Blue....this might be a bit on the high side, have to have a 2nd look at it....
Anyway.....I think we got pretty damn far very quickly :)
"it's only a fuse" holder....in this case....well almost only ;)
Ordering sockets (I decided to stop using those breakable sockets...they seem to be of not that great quality...)
That leaves me some time to fully clean the cab's inside....and the monitor :)
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Forgot to post a pic of the (temporary) diode bridge setup. Might look into making this permanent by setting it up properly...I have no desire to find those ancient original diodes.... :D
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Right.....let's switch to a proper camera....tired of lousy Samsung pics....
While waiting for sockets....let's clean the inside.....as usually, let's work from top to bottom....(always a smart thing to do...)
So what's at the top.....yep....the marquee area.....the good: it's there, it looks pretty damn good but the light...mehhh...that can be a lot better....looks "mushy" and a bit dim now...
Let's open it...the tube works but.....that's about all that's good. It flickers pretty badly at the ends and it feels HOT !
On the far right you can see a weird "metallic" looking spot...this tube is very near it's end....let's give it it's deserved rest...
Oh...and another thing: it's a daylight tube.....to get the "freshest" colors your need to get a cool white (color code 840) tube.
Next....the speaker.....from what I've heard so far.....I'm not really impressed.....the deep -Tud-Tud- sound is just not that impressive...it lacks the bass....
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The cause: this is a pretty tiny speaker...
I might upgrade it....it also has a small hole in the supporting ring...maybe this is also a cause for the less fantastic sound...but the magnet is really light.
Although heavy speakers do not guarantee a good sound, a light weight speaker NEVER sounds great...
It _IS_ a Pioneer speaker (double conus) though...
Not pictured....but the speaker grill looks really pretty cheap. The holes in it are TINY and thus "stops" a lot of sound...oh well....we'll have to live with that and you can barely see the thing...
Another look at the tube....there's tape on the edges. Seen that before on Japanese cabs...I guess some precaution that it won't fall out during transport ? If so, they were never removed.....so that would mean it's the original tube...
I removed them and the tube holders are still in great shape and hold the tube firmly, no need for this tape !
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Nice, a 50 Hz 220V ballast for a change. I'll just clean it.
Tube, starter and ballast are all Osram. Starter still fine...also cleaned.
Of course I clean the entire inside of the marquee area...plenty of "spiderweb" and of course 35 years of dust...
Went to the DIY store to get a nice new tube....nice bright and no flicker :)
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And of course it's a Philips with a little hidden Dutch "signature" for this machine :)
The inside of the marquee looks as they usually do....like a smokers' lunge...
Carefully clean it with some mild detergent and a bit of water and a soft spong (no magic sponge here !)
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In between....here's proof they used multi-plex instead of cheap particle board like Atari used in the US and Ireland. Big plus for the Italians here !
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The marquee retainers......It's always funny, at first look these usually look pretty nice, but once you remove them and take a good look........
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Going to "do" those but not tonight as we had some thunder and lightning and rain here...
So, put everything back for now and let's see how it looks....
NICE !!!
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No kidding....
The pulsating bullets on a real Asteroids vector monitor is one of the coolest graphical effect in the history of videogames.
I am STILL mesmerized by it.... ;D
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It's amazing how similar that is to a Zac! The coin door connectors are the same, gloss artwork, plywood construction, silver T-molding, same speaker (Pioneer) and speaker mount design, same tip chain on the bottom, same fluorescent design (same Osram ballast & dutch tube!) etc...
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I think it's so cool to see how you take pics of every little detail
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Thanks Patrick .....yeah sometimes I feel a bit crazy to keep documenting all this but then again.....i just like doing it :D :D
It's also funny that I first thought....let's fix it and then it's "ready" and next you realize you want to get rid of the dust and grime ASAP, then discover I need to replace/restore some things anyway...and you feel you hit The "restore mode" again ;)
Bit this one wont take long for sure.
Paul what you mention is Exactly what RobinHolland said a few times when he was here.....I don't own a Zacc so I'm not hat familiar with them but he felt that this was produced in the same factory.
The way they made the panels is the same too (glossy finish) so I said that maybe they sourced the cabinets from an external company ?
Who knows....maybe Betolino was too busy and outsourced production to Zaccaria ?
What I am also always very curious about......production number of Asteroids is registered as about 100.000 from what I've read......but how many will have been built in Italy ? How many in Ireland and France.
I did read that they estimated that the number of bootleg Asteroids was about the same as the official one's and I wouldnt be surprised by that....there are SO many bootleg versions of this game...
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So.....my mind kept giving me the feeling of "having seen this all before"......and I didn't mean Vernimark's machine but another one....
So I did some googling and guess what came up.....:
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5854.0
Machine is almost identical to mine except, the green buttons are on the left side of the panel instead of right. Makes more sense that way as they are both rotating buttons (i.e. they have about the same function) while if they are on the right they are different functions (thrust, shoot)......
Also...there's a diode-bridge on that power supply board...just like we hacked it in....only they used a heat-sink...mmmm, maybe a good idea :)
Also, the coin door is all alu-looking, the coin return button bezels are black on mine.
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Transformer style, fuse block style, label style, AC filter, all on a wooden plinth looks the same design as Zac...
http://www.zzzaccaria.com/images/Projects/AstroWarsRestoration/DSCN0516.JPG (http://www.zzzaccaria.com/images/Projects/AstroWarsRestoration/DSCN0516.JPG)
Paul.
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Wow.....yeah that looks scarinlly the same. Did Zaccaria also not use any plugs around the power supply board ?
It's not very handy as you can't switch out the unit as a whole (as operator) or get it out to clean it (as a collector ;)).
Wouldn't be surprised if this was outsourced to Zacc or something like that...
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No kidding....
The pulsating bullets on a real Asteroids vector monitor is one of the coolest graphical effect in the history of videogames.
I am STILL mesmerized by it.... ;D
EXACTLY!
Great topic to read!
One of my all-time favourite game :))))
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Mmmm....OK I replaced the processor and ROM sockets but I still have that sometimes random vectors "flash" very quickly on the screen. Sometimes the game keeps running, but sometimes it makes the game crash and the watchdog kicks in, making the board to reset.
I checked this by shorting the watchdog, when it crashes then the screen goes black and nothing happens anymore, so somehow the program/processor crashes.
Could it be RAM/PROM ? All are socketed but I didn't replace those sockets.
I checked voltages all seem OK. Also didn't replace the edge connector yet....it doesn't feel too bad but I will still replace it...it's my must do thing....
Does anyone have a reliable Asteroids PCB they can bring to Eurocade so at least I can bring the machine and have it run reliably ?
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Also the way to mount the leaf switches (straight to the wood instead of the holders) and the CP clamps are exactely the way zacc does it.
it screams zacc style build :D
(http://i.imgur.com/4syo5y0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tsY6e2N.jpg)
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Gentlemen......I have decided that it is an Atari..... ;D ;D ;D
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hahaha, Andre has his 1st Zacc :spaceace:
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No. It's an Atari.
Says so on the marquee. And on the coin door. And on the PCB. And on the AR-I. And on the screen. It's an Atari.
LOL ;D ;D
Seriously...I have no problems with Zaccs at all. In fact....IF this is a "Zacc" it is the most beautiful Zacc ever ! HAH ! ;D
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Does anyone have a reliable Asteroids PCB they can bring to Eurocade so at least I can bring the machine and have it run reliably ?
Yup, will do.
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Awesome Chris !
Just replaced the sockets of all RAMs. No dice.
Replaced all RAMs. No Dice.
I mean it runs....but still produces random vectors sometimes and sometimes incl. reset.
Decided to go back to basics....since shit in = shit out....was going over the power supply board, cleaning everything and man, on THREE fuses the glass simply separated from the metal end cap just by lifting them out of the holders !!!
(By the way, kinda strange they DID use US-sized fuses here....)
Anyway, replaced them all...I wonder if.....maybe.....
Something else: all you Zaccaria fanboys.....if it is so similar, please tell me how to switch the transformer from 220VAC to 230VAC (or 240VAC).
I noticed there are a number of lugs for the primary but.....better nog guess....I guess :D
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Maybe this helps ? (if its the same transformer) it looks the same as the old style zacc's
This is Astro Wars.
By the way, funny they call fluorecent Neon....
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Thanks, there's a number on the transformer, I'll check. 245VAC is a bit big step though...weird voltage...
Replacing the fuses did nothing...still the same issue.
Popped in my "old" (once working....before I screwed it up trying to get it to run in my Asterock....sigh) Asteroids board but that produces some tiny vectors on the center of the screen so I quickly removed that again.
Also....to my own pretty big surprise....I found an Asteroids Deluxe board.....I have a blank hole in my memory how and why I got this....interestingly there is an AD to Lunar Lander adapter on it.....I wonder if I could put it in the Asteroids without blowing stuff up (again).....
Maybe someone wants to trade 1 defective plus 1 flaky Asteroids PCB for 1 good working one ? :D
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I used to have a DLX in my Asty LL that I sold, maybe it was that one?
Paul.
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Yep.....must be.....it crossed my mind when I looked at it again and saw the Lunar Lander adapter.
Tried it but it doesn't run.
The transformer is a 2C 1009, that schematic shows a 1005 but I'm pretty sure it's only the secondary voltages that differ, mainly because of the vector requirements.....
The only thin I haven't tried yet is swapping the processor.
Next would be getting out the Fluke 9100A but I don't trust my 6502 pod (converted from 6800) at the moment, it never completes self test but that may be due to a bad ZIF socket on the pod....I'll give it a shot.
If the pod is not OK I can borrow one from a former Fluke employee (and he also offered to lend me a 9010a so I could try to repair my pod).
and there's still the edge connector to do :) But it looks remarkably well, rarely saw such an unburnt Atari vector edge connector....not a trace of heat on it....maybe the Italians used a better quality edge connector ?
The game sure saw some use, the counter is well into the 60000.
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CPU Amanda ROMs exchanged, no difference.
Interesting fact: the ROMs on the "Italian" board are Revision 1 (shows "Asteroids by Atari".
From what I've read this version has a bug that makes you in invulnerable when you are in the area where the scores are.....I tried this but I died every time a rock hit me....but maybe I'm not at the right spot.
It's time for the Fluke.
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Sir, I sent you a pm regarding the Asteroids parts like the CP for example....
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Sir, I sent you a pm regarding the Asteroids parts like the CP for example....
Yup I know and I replied in the dedicated for sale thread....
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=6523.msg95269#msg95269
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OK I needed to be sure the cause of the resets wasn't the famous Big Blue capacitor.
In my 10 years of collecting and repairing Atari machines I have found the following number of bad Big Blues:
(http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/presskit/icons/zero.large.png)
This does NOT mean that they _never_ go bad....but I havent seen one yet...
This also doesn't mean you shouldn't test it. So I checked it:
ESR meter results: more than perfect ! (Capacity is rated at 27000....it's a big higher (which is always better in this situation)
BUT....let's double check....turn on power, set DVM to AC and measure across the terminals...
Mmmm, 0,145V....that's well within expectations AFAIK.
EVEN so, I also tried another Big Blue just to be 1000% sure....no difference still occasional resets so, the Big Blue is certified.
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I must say that at the moment I can actually several games in a row before a reset happens.
This is weird and it reminds me of an Italian racing car brand....very beautiful and desirable but quite unreliable ;)
I do have to note that 3 of the 4 vector RAMs are not socketed on the PCB....maybe there's a problem there. The PROM might also be a possible cause for this behavior.
Anyway, some random stuff now:
Just for fun, I compared a sample of the "ghetto" chrome T-molding to the stuff currently on the machine....I totally agree....this is NOT what I want on there !!!
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I tried an original US/Irish Asteroids speaker from the shell.....I like it much better.
Somehow this one feels "correct" right away. I'll need a bit of creativity to mount it though...
(Not the speaker so much, but the cheap-ass grill).
On the pic you see the US speaker left, the Italian on the right. I guess size does matter in this case...
Look at the grill.....see all that plastic ? all of that plastic is keeping sound out.
Geez....there's so little light coming through it, are there any holes there at all ?? Especially the center area is even more dense. High tones (like the shots) are even more influenced by this....it really makes it sound WRONG.
Yes I'm anal, I never listen to my home stereo with covers on my speakers either....and that's just some very fine speaker-cloth....but I hear the difference...
It hurst even more because of the straight angle the speaker grill is with regards to the player. If the bezel would be angled like f.i. Ms.Pac Man has it would be less terrible I bet...but the sound doesn't reflect off the bezel on Asteroids.
Wish you guys could hear the difference when it's ON the cab and when it's OFF.
However.....I want to maintain the original look as much as possible....thinking of cutting out the full "mesh" area and put some speaker cloth on it....but we'll see about that later....
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Ah, a picture I took from the "leftovers" of the original IC sockets.
I managed to "pull of" the entire strings of pins by going over the holes one by one with a soldering iron.
Pretty funny to do...
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Figured I'd throw in the repro bezel I have here now.
It was still in plastic and covered with the protective films...
Looks pretty damn good.......but I can't live with the missing Atari Italia/Bertolino logo....
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The Asteroids will be at Eurocade, wether my board is running 100% or not since Chris will be bringing a reliable board.
I'll keep the bezel for Eurocade but it can leave after that, so that's going up on the for sale thread.
I hope to get scans from Vernimark and hope Etienne can help me with the artwork ? :D
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OK hooked up the Fluke 9100A and went through the works:
Bus test => OK
RAM tests => OK
ROM tests =? OK (well, I don't know the signatures but the results are constant even during prolonged looped testing...
Since the Atari documentation is always top notch, it even provides the addresses for buttons (inputs) and f.i. sounds (outputs).
I played around with sending data to the sound addresses which produced some rather weird noises :)
Also ran the UUT of course, works fine, well....just as normal so with occasional random vectors and sometimes resets.
SO.....I think the Fluke can't really "see" the issue. I think the problem is somewhere in the vector generating hardware and not ROM/RAM related. But there ends my knowledge...any help appreciated !!
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i had the similiar issue with asteroids...resetting from time to time...
check if the cpu is a 6502A (asteroids runs on 1,5 mhz)
but the problem that i had was a bad cpu-socket.
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(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6521.0;attach=11401;image)
this is NOT what I want on there !!!
Told you so... ;D
i have considered that option too for my zacc, but when i saw the pics of that, i passed ;D
Ofcourse i will help you with the artwork, just let me know ;)
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i had the similiar issue with asteroids...resetting from time to time...
check if the cpu is a 6502A (asteroids runs on 1,5 mhz)
but the problem that i had was a bad cpu-socket.
Thanks....yeah replaced that already with a nice one with machined pins...
The processor is from 1982 though....mmmm....let's have a look.....but on the other hand, the same thing happened while running the board with the Fluke 9100A....which then uses the processor in the 6502 Pod....mmmm...
OK looking now.....
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HAH ! It's a regular 6502 ! I actually _did_ notice the date code of 8217 but didn't even think twice about that it needs a 6502A !
AND.......the 6502 pod I have is actually a 6800 that I converted to 6502. And to be honest I have no idea WHAT 6502 I put in there....so it might be a slower one (could even be one of the former east-block compatibles that I bought a while ago....which might not be the best of ideas....)
Luckily the first Asteroids board I had _does_ have a 6502A (dated 79, so must be original).
OK swapped it in and running tests as we speak (great to have to work at home sometimes ;))
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@Etienne: hah, you're absolutely right....total no go :)
Thanks for you help ! Hope Marco can scan the bezel for me :D:D:D
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Oh lordy.....if it really IS the 6502A then Jochen is going to get some drinks at the bar from me ! (Eurocade will make me poor this year ;))
And I had just made an offer on this this morning:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/PCB-BOARD-ARCADE-NOT-JAMMA-ASTEROIDS-1979-ATARI-/191661739580?
....and it got accepted.....Oh well....I like having a back-up :)
I wonder what that little add-on PCB is...probably a speed hack or something ?
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Sorry Jochen, looks like you're not getting those drinks at the bar ;);)
Too bad really and for almost two hours my hopes were high because it went through that time without resets. It was in attract mode mostly (but it happens then too) and I played some games without problems. Then I started another session and sure enough there were some random vectors again......and after a while another reset.
However, I'm still quite thankful for that tip as it could well have been the problem ! Also....now I know I need to get an A version.
I'm pretty sure though that even in those times the chips all came from the same production line and just were tested differently. In fact, the A behind the 6502 is TOTALLY stamped on "later" in the production process, it's about ten times as "bright" as the rest of the text......which would proofs how this went (and still goes today).
So....still,happy I bought that other board :) also ordered other parts to try and fix my first Asteroids PCB.
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Ok since there is not service manual or schematics known for this baby, and I wanted to check pin out etc. anyway, I started documenting the entire harness and parts.
What I noticed in the process is that the transformer get pretty damn hot. Now....seeing it's a transformer brand/kind also used in Zaccaria cabs and remembering some very heft fans on Zaccaria cabs I wonder......
Is it normal for these transformers to get so hot ? Must say I never really tried to feel the temperature of a regular Atari Power Brick but it seems like this one is working on the edge of it's capacity.
Following this, I found out the primary lugs configuration and comparing it with the drawing of the Zaccaria I was confident enough to move the mains input to the higher rated input (245VAC ?).
Although the mains voltage in my house was about 227VAC at that moment, the output voltages were all pretty much on the high side of what they were specced.
So, to ease the heat a bit I moved the mains and it works fine. Output voltages are now at or a bit under spec but everything seems to work happily (don't think it will fix the random vector/reset issue though).
Next I decided to get the monitor out to clean the monitor area of the cab and of course the monitor too.
I was a bit in doubt, but I decided to wash the chassis PCBs like I do normally, with some detergent and in an nice bath of luke warm water :) of course dried it right after the bath with the wife's hairdryer !!!
The CRT I cleaned with glassex (bootleg version) and some paper towel/magic sponge.
The dust just _kept_ coming off....but it started to look better and better. The aquadag on this tube turns out to be very sturdy, not a sign of it getting loose. I measured it after the cleaning and got the expected results (within the kOhms is normal, depending on the distance between your test leads).
Pics follow later.
I checked all caps and all of them are indicating OK. However they are brands I never heard of and they do look original. They all are 85 degr. Types and since I was having some linearity issues I deciede to go for a full cap kit, except for the big filter caps. The linearity could well be only an issue of setting up,the pots too, but anyway...
I reassembled everything to see if the wash hands harm anything and sure enough the picture came up happily as before :)
More about the Hantarex MTRV when I post pics...
In the process of checking stuff I noticed that the big filter cab on the HV PCB had a VERY loose soldering on one pin !!! This shows that you need to check stuff, even if it seems to work OK. Not sure if I was just lucky that the cap made physical comtact or that it simply worked without filtering but I fixed it of course.
Still need to order some caps, could only find three correct values in my parts.
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OK pics:
Monitor removed from cab. Dirty as expected but not excessive.
The CRT has the usual burn, but it isn't that bad....flash pics reveal the burn much much more than when it's simply in the cab an running...
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The chassis. It's a pretty neat design with clear sections. On the far left there are two huge heatsinks which so an amazing job. Even after prolonged running they only get "hand warm". Of course there is no backdoor on the cab now which may influence this a little bit, but it can't be much worse.
Right next to them is the deflection PCB. I had a look at the schematics a bit and it follows more or less the regular B/W vector design. Lots of transistors are European types though, which I like :)
Right next to the deflection is the Power Supply, I like that this got it's own PCB.
And on the far right is the HV cage.
One thing I noticed on the deflection PCBs is that the 4 heatsinks of some of the transistors are mounted "standing up" where the picture on the manual, and the one PaTrYcK's machine have them "laying down". Maybe this was a mod done later in production to increase cooling ?
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1) The side with the deflection transistors. 2N types on one axis, BDs on the other....kinda strange, maybe a repair or just what the factory had around...
2) On the other side a hole for one of the bottle cap transistors on the HV cage....good for cooling...
3) HV cage
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1) Lots of dust on the CRT of course...
2) The CRT, a Fivre M50-210M-W. Also Made in Italy.
I had never heard of that brand...so I did some googling and found some pretty interesting stuff with quite a number of pictures from that factory ! => http://obsoletetellyemuseum.blogspot.nl/2012/03/siemens-elettra-tv2451-crt-tube-fivre.html
(Scroll down !!!)
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Interesting document about Fivre's history....wish I could read Italian (yeah I know I can use Google translate but....far from perfect.):
http://www.aireradio.org/articoli/img/Fivre.pdf
What I understand is that they excisted from 1932 till 1992 in Pavia, a town north of Milano. The factory building was demolished in 2007 and, interestingly they also had a factory in....Firenze.....where Hantrex produced this monitor :)
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1) OK, something I REALLY like about this monitor is these two little knobs....by turning both loose, you can very easily remove the chassis from the frame. Compare this to it's US cousins....it is even so that you can actually remove the chassis WITHOUT removing the entire monitor from the front on an Asteroids cab, this is impossible with the US and UK machines :)
In fact this exactly what Robin and I did when we did the first fix.
If you keep al the wiring connected you can STILL remove the chassis and put it in front of the frame.
2) and 3) chassis loose....I did remove wires here for cleaning
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Yep, Hanta did that, my CK MTC 900 also has those.
very nice to take out the chassis in comparation to a Sanyo 20 EZ...
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1)+2) The HV cage opened.
3) look at this fuse on the power supply board. The one on the deflection board actually looked a bit worse and hence lost contact.
IIRC the seller of the cab told me that the place where he got it from was pretty moist....which makes is even more special that the machine is in it's current condition.
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1) Interesting....4 wires connect the Power Supply PCB and the deflection PCB. I am sure they actually designed this to use connectors and some (ribbon) cable but it looks like they decided differently in the end. Even so, it would have been quite possible to replace either PCB pretty easily.
2) The solder side of the chassis. The overall look is that the solderings are still nice and shiny. There has been definitely some PCB "hacking"....some tracks are covered in solder for large sections....maybe they had some overheating tracks problems.....
Also a couple of resistors on the solder side....
3) OK........let's clean that CRT !!!!!! I hate dirty tubes ! :)
Magic sponge and some bootleg Glassex are set to work.....am I worried about the aquadag......nope :D
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So.....did you see that little number on the CRT....... 20" ! Yes sir, this is not a tiny 19" tube but a whopping 20" !!! :D
For once, a European thing is actually bigger ;)
The downside of all this excitement is...........the cardboard bezel is the same.....so the visual screen is just the same.... :D
Aside from this....US and Euro tube sizes sometimes were measured differently.....I'll measure this and another B/W vector to compare the REAL size difference....
1) after several cleaning "go rounds" (it kept coming off....)
2) and 3) I really like the transparent (silvery) look at the part that are not covered with aquadag...
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1) The neck after cleaning it carefully. Sometimes I wonder why I clean all this stuff that no-one will ever see.
But then....I will know it's there ! Plus....I believe part of the smell of a cab is from the dirt and dust inside...
2) Tube nice and clean again. I didn't separate it from the chassis, there was no need.
3)While looking at the HV pcb I soon find out that the big filter cab is pretty damn loose !
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1) A look at the solder side reveals why: the right most soldering is completely loose.
I wonder if the HV simply worked without the filter cap or that I was lucky and it _JUST_ made contact somehow....
2) Solder side of HV PCB.
3) While the monitor is out, let's clean that area of the cab...
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1) Washed all PCBs. Checked all caps but decide to do a "full" cap-kit (except the big filter caps).
Replaced the old fuse holders and fuses.
The monitor has a couple of "dangerous" things with the connectors. There are 2 2-pin connectors on the deflection board and mixing them is probably not a very good idea.....
TBH, one of those pins actually never has to be disconnected, unless you want to separate the HV cage.
The second issue is that the connector on the harness that goes to the deflection board has 2 pins MORE than the connector it goes to on the deflection board....and it has to be in the "middle" so one empty "pin" on each side....and there are no physical keys to prevent misalignment !
Anyway, it looks pretty nice again, maybe not factory new but fresh enough for 35 more years :)
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you are going full throttle on this one !
Looking good !
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this is a great monitor and easy to repair. actually a couple of trimmers are not easily adjustable but it is globally a good product
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Yup, so far I agree ! it worked almost "out of the box", only the fuse holder was a real problem and OK, one soldering ;) still a lot better than a lot of other vectors I've seen ;)
The design is neat and clean.
Also: the signal to generate the HV is created with a 555 IC. The U.S. monitors only started using that set-up with the color vector 6100..............who knows, maybe they "borrowed" this idea from the Italians :)
Hope you can find some time to scan the bezel Marco :):)
I know that the size of the U.S. Bezel fits nicely in the cab so I don't expect that to be (much) different.
It might well be enough to only scan the lower section of the bezel....and use that together with the existing file for the U.S. one.
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Oh and they made one small design mistake.....the LED that indicated that thenpt killer is active is placed right behind a connector, making it invisible (or very hard to see) from the back of the monitor...but this is just a very minor thing of course :)
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OK let's talk about sound.
Sound is probably the most underrated part of video gaming.
Try playing a game without it....it will not be the same experience.
Some of you guys may know I'm a bit of an audiophile, I love great audio equipment and listen to vinyl a lot.
So....when I first heard the Italian Asteroids sounds it felt ......wrong. I couldn't really describe it but it was just not THAT sound and feel that the I remember from the original US/Irish cabs.
So I experimented with speakers and the cover and soon found out that I really prefered the original US sized speaker (which I luckily had around.
Also, the cover is one of the worst speaker covers I've ever seen. It BARELY passes through air....and guess what is needed for sound reproduction ;)
So this needed to be fixed....I want to FEEL that basic Asteroids sound :)
However, I also wanted to keep the look as original as possible. Some compromise would have to be made of course but...not too much.
So, let's first get rid of that terrible piece of plastic that stops the thing from sounding right: I started with cutting each "connection" with a hand cutter but soon decided to use my Dremel bootleg instead. This gave a nice smell which reminds you that we need to save our oil supplies if we want to keep making plastic stuff.....
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Of course, it's understandable that in an arcade environment they needed to protect the speaker from molest and went for a sturdy cover like this, but now it will stay in my home, it's not needed anymore.
I could have just left that hole open of course, perfect for the sound (in fact, that's how my main speakers in my living room are...) but it would not look very nice...
So let's cover it with some good speaker cloth....I still had a broken cover from my first quality speakers ever around...let's give it some good new use :)
I simply pulled it over the supports, stretching it so it was nice and tight and glued the cloth to the bezel.
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That turned out better than I'd expected ;)
One more thing I had to do was shorten the 4 supports of the bezel which normally also hold the speaker because else they would touch the bigger speaker I was going to use.
I simply reinstalled the nuts(under the area to cut) and used a hand saw. Installing the nuts makes it possible to screw them off again which "restores" the tread (makes it easier to turn the nuts back on again).
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Somehow, whichever way I take a pic of this it makes the cloth look much more grey than when you see it in real live...o well....trust me, it does look better (more black) in real life :)
Mounted the new speaker with 4 small screws, used crimp connectors instead of solder and we're ready to test :)
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But first......I had to reinstall some rubber "foam" tape again. This always rots away on the marquee holders and makes the marquee vibrate with the sound, I totally hate that ! So I used some nice 3M on the insides of the bezels. I had also installed this on the control panel where it "touches" the plastic bezel, to prevent scratches...
No pics of this though...
It's funny to hear the difference without and with the marquee installed. Without there is hardly any bass....it's speaker-building basics, you need a closed box ;)
Anyway, the result is AWESOME !!!! I really cranked up the volume pot and the sound is clear (bullets) and deep (thumb-thumb sound and thrust) with NO resonation anywhere.....love it :)
I further worked on the monitor. I received the missing caps and replaced them. I also checked the voltages according to the manual. Turned out the voltage on T3 which is supposed to be 30V according to the manual was about 20V ! I guess this was partially because of the change on the transformer I did.
So i turned this back up to 30V again and the picture shrank because of that (this is normal, a low HV gives a bigger screen.). So had to re-adjust the sizes.
Also not 100% happy with the linearity so I started fiddling with that but that's something that takes a bit of time I guess and maybe I need to replace the pots.....
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Oh by the way, I made a pic of the HVT for the part number. The brand seems to be ARCO as this is stamped on the metal part on top.
The number is 28 407600010
Regretfully....Google has nothing on it...
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OK let's finish this machine !! :D
Did a lot of stuff, may forget somethings but anyway:
Although the monitor looked nice, I noticed there was some pretty big difference in size of the Asteroids when they were in mainly the top area of the screen (they "grew").
So I had to fiddle that out...to really adjust a monitor nicely you need to be able to look at it AND reach the pots. Impossible when inside the cab. Normally you'd use a screen generator but I don't have a vector one yet...now....again the Hantarex MTRV wins big points here, because it's pretty easy to set it up like this...I did have to cut some ty-raps away to get the harness out of the cab a bit further...
Did I already mention I had to set up the +30V again, it was around 20V and following that the screen was "oversized". I re-adjusted that properly, this also takes care of the correct HV.
Soon enough I discovered that one of the pots that adjust the linearity was dead. So I replaced it with one I had around. I feel much for replacing them all one day....these are much better protected agains dust and are 10 times easier to adjust but ...OK for now. (New pot in the center of the pic, an old tupe is visible a the right side.
This really helped getting a much better linearity.
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While moving around chassis and frame a bit I suddenly had lost the complete picture.....yikes....
But I felt it had to do something with a wire having been strained a bit, and I noticed there was no neck glow anymore.
It turned out the 4 wire plug on the HV board had some loose solderings. Renewed them and fixed.....phew....
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I had already checked all the caps on the AR-I board but hadn't cleaned it yet, so I did. While I had it out I noticed the connector solderings were looking very dull so I renewed those as well.
With all this chassis removing....this happened....one of the plastic screw-wheels broke. Now....it's just a regular screw inside....I tried glueing it but it didn't work out well so I decided to live with it, if things are as I thing they are the chassis isn't coming out for a long time ;)
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I had noticed that when the cardboard was inside, there would be light "edges" showing on both sides of the plexi bezel, not a pretty sight.
So I decided to make those far edges black. First I started with a permanent marker but it figured this was too clumsy and not so nice looking so I decided to use isolation tape instead...
Hmmm, remarkable......Rev. C artwork....wow....makes you wonde what they revised.
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OK, put back in the monitor and re-ty-rapped the harness there.
The harness has one pretty weird thing for the monitor: the left most connector has two more pins than there are on the monitor and you have to connect it "in the middle"....it's very easy to shift it one pin because there are no blocking pins or so inside the connector....tricky !
Of course I cut away the excess of the ty-raps. The Italian builders used staples that were drive in with low pressure so that they stand out of the wood so it's easy to get a ty-rap in there....pretty smart.
Now....I had replaced the edge connector already, but I used a JAMMA one witch I had cut to the correct length/number of pins. However, I didn't want it to be possible to move up/down (transport !!!) and move contacts to the wrong spot !
So I had to think up a way to block off the cut part.
(I used a JAMMA connector because I have quite a few of them, and not so many 22 pins ones).
I noticed the cut-off part's edge might fit into the open part and.....hah, a perfect fit !
So I sawed this part off and glued it in that part of the connector, and this worked out great. (Pic is trying if it would fit, not the finished situation).
I also did some careful sanding of the CP to get rid of the cigarette burns as much as possible. I used very fine (1500) sand paper. I got most of it gone, but it started to hurt the paint so I stopped. This is like it will stay, it's OK. During the sanding it really smelt like this filthy stench of cigarettes....yugh.
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So....let's do the coin door.
I LOVEEEEEEEE the Euro silvery coin doors because.....they NEVER need paint....nor do they rust....this saves having them sand-blasted and having to spray paint them !!!!
Yeah there are some scratches and scuffs on this one, but all I did was polish it a bit with a magic sponge and it looks very nice and shining again.
I had to sand out the hole of the door and the holder of the coin counter to be able to fit in the lock (had to force it in a bit still) but it worked fine.
Both coin insert lights were dead....and it showed, nice silver on the inside of the glass ! :D
They show they are 7V lights but I only have type 47 here (6.3V). I guess it will be OK... :D
It's funny to see this type used, these are more "Euro" I guess....
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Last steps were cleaning the lower inside and harness and coin box. All done without pics...
So it's done.....OK, three more things to do: put a heat-sink on the bridge rectifier, install some velcro on the card-board bezel (so it is removable) and make a back-door. The first two things I'll do before Eurocade (don't want the rectifier to fry during Eurocade)......
Oh and of course it needs a proper Atari Italia bezel.....but preps for that are being done by Vernimark "as we speak" ;)
Anyway some "after" pics:
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Shiny ? Mwaaaaoooohhhh ;)
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Ohh....one thing I forgot to tell......I did a small modification to this game that allow me to shoot quicker.
Noh, I didn't fiddle with EPROMs or the game PCB....... I removed the button springs !!!!
Those springs were STIFF AS HELL even after all those years ! They make playing a nightmare for your fingers. I have noticed this on many other Asteroids machines I've played. And I can't live with it.
So .....I thought I might cut them in half or so.....but now they are out......I love to play as it is ! It's VERY light, some might not like it like this....but I do :)
With the fire button, I can put 2 fingers on the edges of the button and tap them alternatively (one after the other)....this allows some great "fire bursts" which are great to reduce a large asteroid to maybe 2 or even 1 tiny one.... :D
I'll see if I can make a video of it...
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Awesome machine, sir! :)
I will check that firebutton without spring next weekend ;)
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Awesome machine, sir! :)
I will check that firebutton without spring next weekend ;)
Gracie mille !
Heheh.....it's not just the fire button....it's all of them :P
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Nice job !
I checked the zaccaria speaker grill last week, and its exactly like this, its identical.
Micro holes indeed !
I never looked at it that way :D
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Hah yeah....I think we "arcade archeologists" can safely conclude that this machine was built by Zaccaria.
It's also safe to say it was their masterpiece ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I have been looking for years for replacement T molding, goodluck finding that...
and yes, its pretty flat
found this, maybe they can help:
http://www.cn-nova.com/Product.asp?ClassID=35 (http://www.cn-nova.com/Product.asp?ClassID=35)
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I have been looking for years for replacement T molding, goodluck finding that...
and yes, its pretty flat
found this, maybe they can help:
http://www.cn-nova.com/Product.asp?ClassID=35 (http://www.cn-nova.com/Product.asp?ClassID=35)
that looking good !
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hmmm looks indeed promissing ! :spaceace:
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Ready to order 10 kilometers guys ? ;D
Site says you can send in a sample....
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nice eurocade conversation topic ;D
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Guys....while working on this beauty I've noticed that it gives me lots of "small" shocks....
Even when the machine is off that is. F.I when inserting the PCB and still touching the solder side, I feel some electricy going on....
Also sometimes when touching metal parts with my arms f.i. this happens. The ground is connected (I replaced the mains wire) so.....what can cause this and.....could this also be a cause for the resets happening ?
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Something else.....
I decided that this baby is going to get the NOS/NIB B/W tube I have here.
What good is it to keep that new tube in a box for the next 20/30 years while I can enjoy it now ?
It's not like it's going to burn in again with the few running hours it gets in home use.
Instead, I will put the Italian tube in that box and keep that as a spare for "just in case".....
Swapping a B/W tube is a piece of cake anyway :)
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Sometimes I hate myself so much.....
The monitor developed a problem with the H size in that it was "jumping" a bit.
Unacceptable of course and I was pretty sure pots were the cause.
So....today I bought a full set of pots for it and replaced everything.
Powers up ok, works but picture is pretty big. I had set the pots as much as possible to the original values but even so you still usually need to adjust it a bit.
I started with checking the 30V on the HV cage. this was way too high at 44V so I tried to adjust it down with RV1. Couldn't get it below 40V though.
So I figured I'd have to adjust the pots that regulate the frequency of the 555 IC output.....now....the original pots were "sealed" with some glue....I know why now.
I tried adjusting the pots and suddenly I could hear the HV collapse (the cracking sound when you power off/on a monitor) and of course no picture anymore...
I decided to put the original pots back in...without improvement.
Now I have TR3 heating up like crazy and I'm sure it would burn if I kept it powered on.
It starts too smell wrong too...
I checked about every diode and transistor and resistor but I can't find any shorts....
My worst fear is that the fly-back is dead.....impossible to get that :(:(:(
Any help would be greatly appreciated.........damn I regret doing those pots, should have done only those on the deflection board......aaarggggggggggghhhhh.....<bangs head on wall>
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Mmmmm, looks,like TR5 is dead.....this is a transistor with diode built in....
I measure between 14 and 18 ohms in all directions/combinations of pins, can't be right.
Now....since this HV design is quite similar as the Amplifone HV design I know they use a similar transistor/diode combo to drive the fly-back...only smaller.
Compared specs and I don't see why the Amplifone (BU406D) wouldn't work, after all the Amplifone needs for generate a higher HV than the B/W and specs are at least comparable...
I should have some on stock......somewhere.....
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Ok replaced TR5 with a BU406D temporarily.....the good news is that TR3 is not overheating anymore, the bad news is still no HV and I don't see any neck glow either but I think the Fly-back produces that voltage too....strangely.
Checked HV with my HV meter, nothing :(
I fear the Asteroids is not going to make it after all......
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And a couple of minutes later there is this cry through Level42's house.......YESSSSSS....
Never give up....never give in....
I checked the output of the 555 and there was no block wave....I had swapped out the original 555 with one I had on stock.....so...mmmm,let's put the old one back and.....
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Some interference but......at least it's back :)
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..........aaaaaaand some minutes later.........
I reassembled the HV cage to the frame, reinstalled the cover ....lets do a power up......no picture, and something starts to smell....a see something glowing up in the cage.....R 9 is cooking and TR3 is glowing hot again......damn !!!
TR5 seems shorted all ways......maybe I shorted something to ground by reinstalling the HV cage or.....the 406D is not up to the task ?
Anyway, I know what's wrong and where to look.....point is....can I fix it before Eurocade still have shitloads of other stuff to do.....calling it a day now.....nighty night....
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Still following this soap ? respect ! :)
Had a quick look this morning....works again after removing it from the frame.....I think one of the screws that hold the HV cage to the frame touches one of the tracks near TR5 !
Anyway BU406D still OK :)
Bad news: still some shaking so I guess it's the pot on the game PCB .....argh ;)
Glad as hell it's running though, my Amplifone experience was pretty handy now :)
already ordered some BU606D's, cheapest I could find were from Germnay, yippie ;)
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Reading all this stuff I consider selling all my arcade related stuff and turn my focus on ....collecting stamps :roll:
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Hah, you know how many times this has gone through my mind the past weeks ? :D
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Glad as hell it's running though
STOP TOUCHING IT RIGHT NOW ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Andre,
I've the bertolino's plexy in my car.
it is mainly a black frame with instruction on one side.
Do you want I scan the side with the instruction only? I think it is enough because the rest of the scans should be just black strips...
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Yes Marco I think that will be just fine ! :D IIRC the text and is yellow right ?
Etienne: you want to play Asteroids with the monitor on the other side of the cab ? LOL :)
I found out what went wrong, I had mounted the BU406D to the inside of the metal frame for cooling, I could exactly solder it on the PCB _AND_ use 1 hole for this..but the screw was touching the metal....classic fuck-up ;D
Now mounted it with plastic screws and runs fine :)
Monitor is back in cab, works. Now I won't touch it anymore, I promise....
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Good !
Plastic screws, or isolation sleeves, thats the way to go.
(http://www.theguestroom.net/manuals/Assembling%20Your%20MegaSquirt_files/fetmount.gif)
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I will check that firebutton without spring next weekend ;)
And, what did you think ? What did everybody think ?
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It worked for me ;)
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Fixed my first Asteroids board today....well almost...
As mentioned before I had screwed up with making the Asteroids to Asterock adapter and wrong voltages came on wrong places....
I replaced all ICs in the vector output stages except for the actual DACs (AD561JN) because
a) I didn't have them
b) these babies are expensive, sometimes like $30 a piece expensive.
However.....I did a bit of googling and found them on eBay from HongKong/China for around 5 bucks a piece.....which sounded a lot nicer for my wallet....but I've had some bad experience with fake parts from China so I was pretty hesitant.
However I found this thread on KLOV: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=300424
and it seemed the guys had them working just fine so I went for it and offered $4 a piece for 4 pieces and they accepted :)
Note about that thread: The guys there found out that Analog Devices actually restarted production of the AD561JN (they probably noticed the prices these babies fetched and smelled money....). They sell them for way of 30 bucks a piece now. I also found a nice friendly source in the South of Germany who offered a great price for original NOS one's but.....I just had to try these...
They arrived yesterday and I just installed one and we have picture again ! :D:D
However, the sounds is distorted, maybe this is another victim of my abuse....let's check the audio amp section.....I "smell" a bad LM324 :D
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Nice ! :spaceace:
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Thanks !
OK LM324 replaced and thrust and explosion sounds are back, however there are no sounds when I shoot and the saucers produce no sound either....I do hear some "pops" though at the moments there should be sounds....
Mmmmm, let's check the Asteroids repair Encyclopedia:
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/asteroidtech/asteroidsrepair.html#S2
2. Problem: Missing Sounds.
Suddenly several of the game's sound effects have vanished. Specifically, the ship shot, saucer shot, and saucer flying effects have degraded into various quiet clicks, pops, and buzzes, though they activate at the proper moments and for the proper duration's. From looking at the schematics it seems strange to me that these would all fail simultaneously, while leaving the thump, explosion, and new life sounds intact.
Fix: 12V regulator had failed, and was only putting out around 4 volts. This was the cause of the problems, and was easy to fix.
AH....it actually describes EXACTLY this problem and....it supposed to simply be a 7812.....mmm, thought I'd checked all 78xx's and 79xx's.....let's check again...
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OK replaced 7812. Now I have hum.....and still no shot or saucer sounds .....
The bad thing is, I changed jobs on november 1st and now I don't have a multi-meter so I can't check stuff....guess I'll have to use the scope for this for a while....
I will get a new Fluke again though....calibrated every year :D
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Hi Andre,
sorry for the delay. Tomorrow I'll post you somewhere the 300dpi plexi scan
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Awesome and no problem my friend......Im having an arcade pause at the moment anyway......new job.....pretty busy but lots of fun :)
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hello andre,
are these enough?
sorry for the scratches
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cwW1Pvd8oLNndhTUF0SXJBNVU&usp=sharing