Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Galaxian Theater => Topic started by: DarthNuno on November 28, 2008, 09:59:13 AM



Title: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on November 28, 2008, 09:59:13 AM
(http://www.dragonslairfans.com/news/dragoonvideo.jpg)

The time is coming... Let's save the 'Project Dragoon' video footage for eternity... but also for an emulator  ::) :P ;D

 (check this post (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=541.0) for the 'Attack Of The Zolgear'' video footage topic).

When I got my GT-6 (for information GT-6 is the real name/model of my machine, but we all use to say 'Galaxian Theater'  ::) :P), it was equipped with the 'Attack Of the Zolgear' upgrade kit. It means all the 'Zolgear' board and TWO 'Zolgear' laser disc : one for left LD player, the other one for the right LD player.

Well, as a bonus, I also got a box with 11 boards from (I presume...) original 'Project Dragoon' mission... and ONE 'Dragoon' laser disc.
Holy Jesus... too bad... only one 'Dragoon' LD.... but I need two  :-[

Now... the good new is : The laser disc contains footage from left AND right LD player  :-* It means I have the complete footage, which it sounds perfect for the emulation purpose  :) :-* :-* :-*
Yes, the first half part of the disc shows what happens on left screen, the second part shows the right part... live is good  ;D 8)

Ok, the 'tools' of the day :

The original 'Project Dragoon' LD  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit1.jpg)

Two *brand new* 160GB hard drive : one for the files, the other as a backup of course (hey, this footage is very important  :D ;)) :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit2.jpg)

A capture device, this USB capture 'Easycap' pal/ntsc. I'm glad to know that is a good choice, thanks for the info Warren  :-* [from Daphne Team], see (here (https://www.daphne-emu.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2487))  :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/ZolgSize1.jpg)

A Sony LD3600D Pal/Ntsc (thanks to DCE 'Galaxy Force II man' for that free gift  :-*) :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit3.jpg)

Let's configure the capture device/software as best as possible :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit4.jpg)

I know 576 lines is a little bit too much, but my capture device detects 525 lines when the player plays the video, so it's the only option I can choose (480 is not enough).
Anyway it's not a problem, I'll just have the crop the video.

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit5.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit6.jpg)

On the following picture you see the number of lines detected : 525  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit7.jpg)

No compression during the capture of course...and I need the best quality possible for the "master" video  8)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit8.jpg)

No compression for the sound of course :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit9.jpg)

OK, setup is done, now let's that the real operation  :D

Let's start with the this side :  "G≥-THEATER6 -[English]"

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit10.jpg)

Go Go Go ...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit11.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit12.jpg)

During the capture  :-* :-* :-*

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit13.jpg)

Done... one big .AVI 41 GB file, uncompressed  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit14.jpg)

That unique file include all the footage on that side : left+right footage  8)

Now let's check the other side :  "G≥-THEATER6 -[Japanese]"

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoondigit15.jpg)

It includes exactly the same footage than the other side... and the voice are still in English ...and not in Japanese... strange. I check, double check...triple check and I see NO difference at all ... very strange.

Ok, so I don't need to capture that side  8)

The next step will be the 'mixdown' of that huge. I'll need a lot of advices regarding that...

What compression format to use ? what will be the video size ? I don't know what the Mame-Team or Daphne Team uses to set for the 'mixdown' of such video file... Let's investigate  ;)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: REVO on November 28, 2008, 07:47:37 PM
It includes exactly the same footage than the other side... and the voice are still in English ...and not in Japanese... strange. I check, double check...triple check and I see NO difference at all ... very strange.

Mr DarthNuno

I believe that the LD has TWO sound trucks. One is digital and another is analog.
According to the image named "zolgear24.jpeg", 5 conectors were disconnected from G3 Laser Disk player.
I presume that the 5 connectors are video, digital sound right, digital sound left, analog sound right and analog sound left.
Please check both truck again.

REVO Japan


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: funkycochise on November 29, 2008, 04:11:32 PM
Hello Bruno,

regarding video footage, my 2 cts :
- one thing that hurst me first was the "composite" through cable that links you LD player and you video capture device.
  Would it be more efficient (in term of quality i mean) to make the recording using RBG instead. I suppose your device doesn't support
RBG as an input. For instance composite should be enough, but as "master"  footage, it may be a bit of waste no ?

- How many times the film does last ? For a standard compression, i would choose MPEG2, as it is the DVD standard.

Nice to see those steps soon behind.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: ANY on November 30, 2008, 05:38:04 AM
Hello Bruno,

regarding video footage, my 2 cts :
- one thing that hurst me first was the "composite" through cable that links you LD player and you video capture device.
  Would it be more efficient (in term of quality i mean) to make the recording using RBG instead. I suppose your device doesn't support
RBG as an input. For instance composite should be enough, but as "master"  footage, it may be a bit of waste no ?

- How many times the film does last ? For a standard compression, i would choose MPEG2, as it is the DVD standard.

Nice to see those steps soon behind.

Laserdisc IS composite video, if a laserdisc player have an rgb output it use an conposite-> Rgb converter inside
Laserdisc (NTSC ones) can carry both analog AND digital soundtrack, but ALL laserdisc game I know are only analog and i think that GT3 is not different.
A Laserdisc can hold around 30 minutes of video somewhere around 50.000 frames.
Lossyless compression is best.

For Mame you need to capture it in a special way, you need to preserve the VBI data, witch is blanked out by most capture cards. I can ask Aaron some input about it, Bruno pm me, thanks.

The other 2 connector are probably for sync-in sync-out to keep ALL tye video source in sync.



Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on November 30, 2008, 04:08:02 PM

Mr DarthNuno

I believe that the LD has TWO sound trucks. One is digital and another is analog.
According to the image named "zolgear24.jpeg", 5 connectors were disconnected from G3 Laser Disk player.
I presume that the 5 connectors are video, digital sound right, digital sound left, analog sound right and analog sound left.
Please check both track again.

REVO Japan

Hi Revo,

This is very strange. If you check now the topic 'Zolgear LD topic (http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=541.msg3901#msg3901)', you will see there is a real difference between the 'English' side and the 'Japanese' side, and so, I've captured both side for 'Zolgear'.
But when I listen both side of that 'Dragoon' disc, I don't see any difference between the two side and I'm almost certain nothing is missing : I mean I can recognize all the effects / voices, ... so it's very strange  :? I'll check again.

one thing that hurst me first was the "composite" through cable that links you LD player and you video capture device.
  Would it be more efficient (in term of quality i mean) to make the recording using RBG instead. I suppose your device doesn't support
RBG as an input. For instance composite should be enough, but as "master"  footage, it may be a bit of waste no ?

Any said all  :-* ... Laser disc technology means composite signal internally ;)
 
For Mame you need to capture it in a special way, you need to preserve the VBI data, witch is blanked out by most capture cards. I can ask Aaron some input about it, Bruno pm me, thanks.

I've used the highest setting for my capture device (showed in pictures on this topic), but maybe it's not enough for a such job?
Yes, I guess it's capital to capture that footage in order to make it work on Mame. Can you highlight this post to Aaron and ask him some comments/advices on this  :-* :-* :-*


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on December 18, 2008, 10:09:41 PM
*quick update on this*

I've sent a sample of the big .AVI file to Warren & Aaron in order to know if the rip done would work for use in Mame.

"We've been working on a standardized method for doing captures, and I have started a "Capture Guide" that will explain the hardware/software setup, capture, and preparation for use in MAME.
The short version is that you need an ATI TV Wonder 650 (PCI, not PCIe or USB), and a custom build of VirtualDub that captures the hidden lines containing VBI data.
By the way, in your post you mentioned that you are capturing at 720x576.  This resolution is for PAL sources; for NTSC you want 720x480.  (There are 480 visible lines, which is all a standard capture card will access.  The custom setup with the ATI card gives us access to some of the hidden lines that make up the total of 525.)
"
Warren.

Got the right hardware now : ATI TV Wonder 650 pci :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/ati650pci.jpg)

I'm now ready to capture the LD footage again with the correct hardware.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Dazza on December 19, 2008, 09:49:07 AM
Well, you definitely can't knock your dedication  ;D Good job so far!


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on June 16, 2010, 06:46:45 PM
...and... back on this  ;)

OK, capturing a video disc in order to be "mame compliant' is not an easy task   :oops:
My LD player is not the more accurate one for this task, and ... there are so many parameters to manage : VirtualDub custom build to use, special codec, special procedures before and during the capture, extreme synchronization for starting the capture... and even with the 'Capture Guide (beta version)... it's not easy at all. In addition, I do not have all the tools to check if the capture result file will be usable...

So, the decision has been made... I'm sending my precious LD to the  *master* regarding the LD capture process : Warren  :-*

Of course, I've to protect this laser disc for its long journey from Belgium...to USA  8)  :arrow:

Let's buy a big piece of wood...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_1.jpg)

...in order to create a dedicated box. Let's set the size :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_2.jpg)

...should be fine :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_3.jpg)

...glue...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_4.jpg)

+ screws ... should be strong enough now  ;)  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_5.jpg)

Here's ... the precious  :-*  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_6.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_7.jpg)

Let's protect the disc with a real vintage 'vinyl record' cover (great compilation by the way... I own it since more than 25 years  :P )  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_8.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_9.jpg)

This is not a farewell... just a 'see ya soon'  ;)  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_10.jpg)

I'm sure DHL will open the box when I'll bring them the box, so do not want to completely block the access to the disc. Just remove this piece of Frigolite(c) to remove the disc :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_14.jpg)

OK, the box is now ready...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_11.jpg)
 
... now, let's prepare the package...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_12.jpg)

Done... I can tell you it's extremely strong!  8)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_13.jpg)

I'm living in a small village... I have an access to the local post at the town close to my village... but I do not want to use the federal post! Not secure enough for a such thing IMO. I need a real shipping company with a follow up... and the closest one is DHL in Luxembourg, but ...43 km to drive ... ok, not a big road trip  ...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_15.jpg)

... but I have to pass the border ... welcome in Luxembourg ...

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_16.jpg)

...and 30 minutes later ... Here I am : DHL, close to the National Airport.

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/project_dragoon_trip_17.jpg)
 
As expected, I had to open the package to show them the 'merchandise' ... after trying to explain what a laser disc game is... I finally just say : "Ok... it's an old vinyl record"  ;D And even with that explanation, they didn't find any correct category for this item  :? ... I think they putted something like 'CD Music'
So they close the package with their special tape "Checked By DHL" or something...

The package should arrive in a couple of days... Stay Tuned  :P


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Superully on June 16, 2010, 07:02:21 PM
nice story, bruno, but wouldn't it have been better to also put some kind of "stuffing" inside the wooden box around the laser disk? nevertheless, i'm pretty sure it'll arrive safe and sound!


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Level42 on June 16, 2010, 10:20:17 PM
Uh, doesn't DHL do pick-up at your door over there ?

They do here.

I actually trust the good old post more than any of those parcel services so.....I wish you luck !


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on June 19, 2010, 12:00:46 AM
I can breath now :)

In lest than three days  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/DragoonDiskInUS0.jpg)

...the LD is now in the Warren's hands, at the other side of the world  8)  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/various/DragoonDiskInUS.jpg)

 :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Superully on June 19, 2010, 07:24:20 AM
wow :o that was incredibly fast!!!


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: baritonomarchetto on July 13, 2010, 04:58:39 PM
Waiting to see the photo of the disk back in your hands Bruno  :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Level42 on July 13, 2010, 09:48:41 PM
Waiting to see the photo of the disk back in your hands Bruno  :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

(http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/76/76/6/9/14/2124609140054905596bHoiBH_th.jpg)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: baritonomarchetto on July 14, 2010, 11:05:39 AM

(http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/76/76/6/9/14/2124609140054905596bHoiBH_th.jpg)


This must bring luck!  LOL


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Level42 on July 14, 2010, 05:22:12 PM
At least the video will be captured then ;)

I'm sure it won't happen with the excellent shipping crate Bruno made !


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Pinwizkid on October 24, 2010, 07:10:15 AM
Any update on this?  Was the video successfully captured?

Brendan


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on October 24, 2010, 10:01:50 PM
Yes, some progress done  ;) I'll update soon  8)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on January 18, 2011, 05:56:15 PM
Update  8)

Here's the words form Warren himself  ;)  :arrow:

...I finally had some time this week to work on this, and have most of the capturing done.  I am going to do a couple more captures with different settings, but we're almost there.  :)
I discovered a few things along the way...

- There is a digital audio track!  This is the first game disc I've seen that has one.  (If we had only used your LDP-1450, we'd never have known about it!)  The audio is different on the digital vs analog tracks.  I was able to get a direct digital copy of it with a newer player and optical cable.
- I was able to make a video file that combines the left and right screens...


Wooow! Sounds cool! Here's few print screens captured from the footage (left+right footage...YES!!!) :

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/dragoon/galaxian3_dragoon_1.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/dragoon/galaxian3_dragoon_2.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/dragoon/galaxian3_dragoon_3.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/dragoon/galaxian3_dragoon_4.jpg)

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/dragoon/galaxian3_dragoon_5.jpg)

Impressive isn't it  :o :-* :-* :-*

...and last but not least, here's a Sneak Video Preview of the capture (Left/Right footage combined!!!!)  8)  :arrow:

(http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/news/project_dragoon_wip.jpg) (http://www.arcadelifestyle.net/G3/emulator/dragoon-left-right.m4v)
[click on the picture to download the 64MB .m4v video sample file]

Great job so far Warren! ... and thanks for your time on this  :)

Stay Tuned  :P


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: SeTTleR on January 18, 2011, 06:53:28 PM
Wow, that looks really impressive. I would love to see that one in action some day :)
Really great work!


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: funkycochise on January 18, 2011, 07:34:08 PM
amazing footages...
could be really worth it on a giant screen


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: aganim on January 18, 2011, 09:18:49 PM
amazing footages...
could be really worth it on a giant screen

For see on the video projector ;)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Level42 on January 19, 2011, 09:18:18 PM
Love it !!!


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Reinhold on January 19, 2011, 10:10:02 PM
Love it !!!


Ohh YES! Looks Awsome :)
(http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/19735/chuck-norris-thumbs-up.jpg)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Superully on January 19, 2011, 10:42:19 PM
looks amazing, can't wait to play this at your place, bruno! :spaceace:


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Belike on January 20, 2011, 08:09:52 AM
looks amazing, can't wait to play this at your place, bruno! :spaceace:
+1 ;D


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: scr33n on January 21, 2011, 01:01:02 PM
looks amazing, can't wait to play this at your place, bruno! :spaceace:

another +1

;D :spaceace:


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Equites on January 21, 2011, 10:14:09 PM
Wow! Excellent.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: nascar241993 on February 26, 2011, 01:37:00 AM
Thank you for this video, I like being able to watch LD footage in HD on my new 22 or 23 inch monitor.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Pinwizkid on March 28, 2011, 02:45:04 AM
Wow, this is super exciting.  I'd love to get my hands on that digital audio track!!

-BB


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Nic-fryer on April 01, 2013, 11:35:40 AM
I know it's been a long time, but is there an update on this? ??? I hope you got the disc back in one piece :?


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on April 24, 2016, 03:35:22 PM
...and here we are :

(http:///www.arcadelifestyle.net/news/dragoon.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecUoBnABB0)
[click on picture to play the video]

Enjoy!  8)


Title: Re: Galaxian³ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Toykyle on April 25, 2016, 04:58:06 AM
Edit: Never Mind. There's a way to unblock it. "Unblock Youtube"

Edit 2: Isn't there also an audio track where you hear those radio chatters and explosions, and some more of the music instruments?

Um. Can you Upload the file to a file-sharing site? "This video contains content from Victor Entertainment, Inc.. It is not available in your country." This affected even the Laserdisc demonstration and the PSX gameplay videos featuring Project Dragoon.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on April 30, 2016, 06:28:01 PM
Well, do this link works from the USA?  :arrow: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x47yvfo

Let me know  8)


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Toykyle on April 30, 2016, 10:12:19 PM
It works.  ;)

So, is the radio chatter with more instruments also on a different digital track or just analog?


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Geosword X on June 29, 2016, 02:21:10 AM
...and here we are :

(http:///www.arcadelifestyle.net/news/dragoon.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fecUoBnABB0)
[click on picture to play the video]

Enjoy!  8)

After seeing some footage, my jaw dropped like the very first time I saw Galaxian 3 footage (on youtube years ago). Other than missing sound clips on left side and in game graphics, it seems like the emulation is on the right track. Looks drop dead gorgeous in HD! Can't wait for more!


Title: Re: Galaxian³ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Toykyle on September 26, 2016, 04:52:26 AM
So, I know I said this before, but besides the video and the sound, did Warren also capture the 2nd (Analog) audio track? It's the one with radio chatters. The music seems to act like a 5.1 track, and even more sound effects as well.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on September 27, 2016, 09:35:21 AM
Back then he told me he dumped other 'hidden' signals from this LD, for a future use in mame... not sur if he also isolated more audio tracks... I'll drop him a mail.


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Studio Gaming on March 02, 2017, 03:15:59 AM
Hey, may you send us a download link to the chd or audio and video files for the game, or is it not ready at the moment?


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: DarthNuno on March 02, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
Hey, may you send us a download link to the chd or audio and video files for the game, or is it not ready at the moment?

No more stuff is available so far...
Sadly no mame dev is working to emulate that game  :oops:
But if/when some work is done on that level, better videos will be provided for sure...


Title: Re: Galaxian≥ [Dragoon] Emulation part #2 : the video footage
Post by: Studio Gaming on March 03, 2017, 07:14:04 PM
That's a shame that the developers aren't working on the game. May you at least put a download link to the video and quick question. Have you considered running the game on daphne emulator?