Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: level42 on November 02, 2012, 09:28:40 PM
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....but what will it be ?
About 6 hours back and home.....but I stay within our borders.....
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mmmm, is it a driving game?
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Asteroids!!!!1
Missile Command...!!!11??
muh..?
m..?
Anyway, be safe on the roads (without sounding like my mother) :spaceace:
Ohh!!!! - after the -EDIT-
Ice Cole Beer!!!! - or a clone!!!!....
(im going there now to have a quick game in my ICB ;D) thanks for bumping that into my head! :spaceace:
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Posted in the "Technical Area"? Mhhhh, a road trip for a special tool maybe? Anyway, have a safe trip ;)
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mæh - after reading Brunos post, maby a trip after some Muter hardware??!!
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Bruno is on the right track...:) Indeed there is a reason for this to be in the tech area....
Oh and I've owned and sold a MC but you know that very well Michael :)
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OK, yesterday was road trip time, let's go !
Nice "survival" bag...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8151188918_c81c44fae4_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151188918/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151188918/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
260 km. to drive, that is a pretty long trip within our small country...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8151165147_eb688aa04c_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151165147/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151165147/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
And here's the reason: Im heading for the far north east of our country, while I live more or less in the South-west.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8047/8151190054_19d8af34b8_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190054/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190054/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
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The weather is not ideal.....but it's nothing like Sandy.....anyone said this road tip needed a windmill picture ? ;D
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8333/8151166255_e0dfc67b1c_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151166255/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151166255/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
No problems on the road and making fast progress....the first Frysian lakes appear.....much nicer when the sun shines:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8151190528_c1b6368f8f_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190528/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190528/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Heading to Groningen city. But the end destination is even further east: Sappemeer. It's one of those places you learned at school and then forgot about.....well not really, we have a customer there :)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8330/8151190788_8fba8d6765_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190788/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151190788/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Well, since I am in Fryslan now it's time for a Frysian snack :)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8151167091_b9370b3b6f_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151167091/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151167091/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
The people here live on a huge natural gas "bubble", here's a tower to get it out of the ground:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8323/8151167895_7b2c7dc4cf_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151167895/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151167895/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Reached the destination without troubles. The seller is nice guy. He tells me that the stuff was initially owned by Geveke Electronics (now Getronics). Interestingly I remember that they used to do repairs for Atari homecomputers BITD.
When I tell what I plan to do with the stuff he tells me he had actually offered the stuff to John's Jukes but the shipping cost was a bit too high and John already has a lot of this stuff...
Anyway, lets load up everything in the car:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8046/8151191504_c884b63f68_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151191504/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151191504/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8331/8151191824_edf3cf8900_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151191824/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151191824/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Oh, ah I forgot to tell what "the stuff" is :)
It consists basically of two Fluke 9100a systems, well the 2nd unit is a 9105. With these systems it's possible to examine PCBs based an various processor types.
The system consists of the main unit (the PC like box). To this you connect a "pod". This is an interface that is different for every kind of processor. So there is a pod for Z80, for 6502 etc. You remove the processor from the PCB and connect the pod to the socket. Now you can various tests to check the hardware.
I got very lucky because one of the systems has a video card and a dedicated external keyboard. Both are pretty hard to find I learned. This makes this system a "programmer" system which enables me to make scripts for running various checks on various PCBs. Well..that is when I've learned to :)
So let's get back home. I decided taking the same route would be a bit too boring so I chose another route, a bit more eastwards.
Very near the seller's place I see this.....did they move the Atomium from Brussels to here ?
I bet it's a natural gas atom ?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8194/8151168221_232c9086b7_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151168221/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151168221/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
This route goes through the Veluwe, one of our nicest regions, the weather improves a bit..
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8151168597_2b98164590_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151168597/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151168597/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Amazingly, my wife included this in my lunch bag :) Bruno must be happy to see this ;) I am not a big fan but well, I can use a bite now....
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8326/8151193246_4a48e65b0b_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151193246/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151193246/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
And again I know why I don't like them. When you bite it, the grease poors out....I really don't like it. There is also barely a meat taste.....I wonder how much really is meat in there. I finish this one, but the others are safe for me, no Bifi's for at least another 5 years for me :)
Back in Zuid-Holland and the weather improves a lot, nice clouds in the sky
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8151169567_e576761d57_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151169567/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151169567/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8052/8151194184_7c961c0660_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151194184/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151194184/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
The Brienenoord bridge, Rotterdam. I must have crossed this at least 100.000 times. It means Im almost home
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8330/8151170193_231c235f2f_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151170193/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151170193/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Statistics time. Almost 5 hours incl. picking up and one stop for Diesel....
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8473/8151194842_6bca8031da_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151194842/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151194842/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Unloaded the stuff: now the sorting can begin :)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8151171761_a4f8190144_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151171761/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8151171761/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
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Nice :)
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Nice stuff, can't wait to see it running on an usual André youtube video. ;D
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(http://www.pouet.net/gfx/rulez.gif)(http://www.pouet.net/gfx/rulez.gif)(http://www.pouet.net/gfx/rulez.gif)(http://www.pouet.net/gfx/rulez.gif)
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I'll have to learn to use it first Bela, or else I will look kinda foolish :)
I have powered up both systems. The 9100a boots up fine. It has the latest software installed V6.1 and 4 Mb Ram on board (that was a lot then ;))\
The SCSI hard disk works great too ;)
I thought i could test the pods but it looks you need to hook up a UUT (Unit Under Test, in other words, a PCB that is running on the corresponding processor.)
There are no Fluke 9100a videos on youtube, but there are some videos with the Fluke 9010, the older version of this tester, like this: http://youtu.be/dA1RbmX8mEE
This gives you a global idea of what they can do.
The 9105 has some problems, it runs but seems to crash every now and then. And it needs to boot up from floppies. I have 51 floppies that came with the system, many of them original Fluke disks but I'll have to sort them and test them and if possible make images. The only system I have a floppy drive on still is my Atari ST, which is actually not bad at all because this maybe the best system to do this task. The ST's floppy system is compatible with the PC system but it was a lot more flexible. I have some great tools to work with them in any strange format you can think of....only problem is to get the images from the ST to a current system :)
Been mailing with some guys about these systems and it looks like there is no current reliable V6.1 image available, and I found 2 complete floppy sets so I maybe able to help out ....if the floppies are still readable of course :)
Pretty cool to have this stuff. I think BITD these systems incl. the pods etc. cost the price of a car....
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Well, we also think that it is cool that you have this stuff and that you learn how to work with it. :D ;)
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Great road trip, André! ;) ... and very nice stuff! Can't wait to see all of that 'in action'! Hope you'll master it soon!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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I'll have to learn to use it first Bela, or else I will look kinda foolish :)
I have powered up both systems. The 9100a boots up fine. It has the latest software installed V6.1 and 4 Mb Ram on board (that was a lot then ;))\
The SCSI hard disk works great too ;)
I thought i could test the pods but it looks you need to hook up a UUT (Unit Under Test, in other words, a PCB that is running on the corresponding processor.)
There are no Fluke 9100a videos on youtube, but there are some videos with the Fluke 9010, the older version of this tester, like this: http://youtu.be/dA1RbmX8mEE
This gives you a global idea of what they can do.
The 9105 has some problems, it runs but seems to crash every now and then. And it needs to boot up from floppies. I have 51 floppies that came with the system, many of them original Fluke disks but I'll have to sort them and test them and if possible make images. The only system I have a floppy drive on still is my Atari ST, which is actually not bad at all because this maybe the best system to do this task. The ST's floppy system is compatible with the PC system but it was a lot more flexible. I have some great tools to work with them in any strange format you can think of....only problem is to get the images from the ST to a current system :)
Been mailing with some guys about these systems and it looks like there is no current reliable V6.1 image available, and I found 2 complete floppy sets so I maybe able to help out ....if the floppies are still readable of course :)
Pretty cool to have this stuff. I think BITD these systems incl. the pods etc. cost the price of a car....
Great! I wish i had your skills! Anyway, i have a non working Punch Out pcb... ::)
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Thanks guys ! Soon I will be opening Andre's Arcade Repair Shop :)
Seriously, like any other tool, it's not a magic thing. It's just a tool, a useful one, but without knowing what to do with it it's worthless. I understand the basics though, so that's a good start ;)
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Just opened the 9100A. There is a Seagate ST3390N SCSI harddisk in it. Acc. to a PDF on Seagate's site (http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/iguides/scsi/3655igna.pdf) this drive is from 1993.....probably not the original drive because the system is older. It seems to work fine, but I'm a bit scared to rely on a 1993 harddisk....that is almost 20 years.....
Some 9100A owners have managed to install a CF card set-up instead, let's see what I can find but for this moment I'll leave it a bit...
Nice page by Andy: http://www.andysarcade.net/personal/tech/fluke9100/index.htm
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I just watch the video of the guy fixing the Punch out board. Looks pretty cool!! I wonder if I can ever learn to figure out how these boards work ???
I only know the basics on electronics from school. I understand how electricity works, For the biggest part I installed it myself in my last two houses. I also understand wiring controllers and cabs, but I don't have a lot experience in it.
Do you have any tips to start with? I'm really motivated learning to understand this.
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Great stuff Andre !
Perhaps clone the HDD so at least you got a backup.
by the way, it looks like your wife is happy with you again ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8151171761_a4f8190144_c.jpg)
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Yes cloning the HD is a great idea but it's a SCSI and I mean old-school SCSI :)
However, again the Atari ST comes in handy as I have a SCSI controller on that one :)
Not sure if I have cloning software for it though...and from what I've read the disk systems (at least the floppy disk) is "OS-9" standard.
Well the good thing is that the 9105 probably won't stay long here so that is at least one unit less ;) I rearranged the boxes and now have "only" the two big one's left....
Succesfully tested one POD yesterday, another one shows a defect (non were "important" one's).
The probe tested out OK too. (there's something that looks and functions a lot like a logic probe included in the system. This can be used to test but also to insert a certain signal.
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if you need something like this :
(http://img.gadgetfactory.eu/images/500/500/53794_0.jpg)
some cable and a PCI card, let me know , i have enough spare shizzle at my customer ;)
I think you can use ghost, or image for linux, or acronis to clone the disk
i believe they read the disk at sector level, so the partition and format does not matter i think
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Is there an USB/Computer equivalent of these tools?
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The Fluke tools ? No.
But I did find something about a project to emulate the main unit on a PC. You'd still need the pods though so even if/when it would be finished the functionality is rather limited.
If you mean the SCSI tools....Yes AFAIK.
Etienne that would be great, would have to fire up my PC again which has been since 2006 but I guess it should work. In that way it is also easier because I can hook up a USB key to transfer it.
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I think I have a module for the 9100 somewhere, got it with my 9010.Can't remember what it does though.
Just moved so everything is in storage, but I'll take a look when I can.
The 9010 helped me a couple of times but remembering all the old stuff I learned back in the old Assembly language days was painful :)
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Ive just put some stuff in my bag;
1x Adaptec AHA 2904
1x Adaptec AHA 2940
some HD SCSI cable with a terminator
2 connectors as shown above (i guess the drive is a 50 pin oldschool SCSI drive)
and a normal 50 pin ribbon with two connectors in case you need it without the terminator
if both the cards dont work, i also have some other server cards (LSI) but they are raid controllers
(you can ofcourse configure 1 drive ;D )
Hope it helps
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Great Etienne, thanks !!!
yes its an old-school 50 pin SCSI drive.
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For the guys interested in the Fluke 9100a and those who want to know what it generally can do, this is a good document to read:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/Test%20Equipment/Fluke/9100%20Fixture/9100%20Getting%20Started.pdf
I'm testing all pods now...
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....only problem is to get the images from the ST to a current system :)
Besides my PC (with floppy drive) I still use my Atari ST & Falcon030 and an Amiga. If you need help getting the disks imaged and burned on CDR, just drop me a line.
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Cool thanks ! If needed I'll let you know :)
Guys check this out: http://arcarc.xmission.com/Test%20Equipment/Fluke/Fluke9100.avi
(71 Mb.... I had to play it on VLC player, didn't run in Quicktime)
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Cool thanks ! If needed I'll let you know :)
Guys check this out: http://arcarc.xmission.com/Test%20Equipment/Fluke/Fluke9100.avi
(71 Mb.... I had to play it on VLC player, didn't run in Quicktime)
Rule #1 Always VLC player, never sucky quicktime... ;)
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Just found these scans from a Fluke catalogue.
http://www.teknetelectronics.com/DataSheet/FLUKE/FLUKE_9100A43535.pdf
Look at page two for the original prices of these toys........ ;D ;D ;D
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:o :o :o
I guess people can earn much more money with repairing pcbs those days, it could be a good investment.
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I received the monitor cable that I needed to hook up my Philips monitor to the system (TTL, sub-9 on the Fluke side, DIN 8 pins on the monitor side) and it works great:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8342/8218614460_8c518e2a64_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614460/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614460/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
You also see a brand new NOS flatcable to use on a pod that was missing it, thanks to my good friend from the South of Germany :)
Screenshot:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8345/8218614918_3f9cb72185_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614918/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614918/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Oh by the way, of course the system has it's own internal display for "everyday" work:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/8161905480_a95e79ae51_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8161905480/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8161905480/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
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I received the monitor cable (thanks for the help Thorsten !!!!) that I needed to hook up my Philips monitor to the system (TTL, sub-9 on the Fluke side, DIN 8 pins on the monitor side) and it works great:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8342/8218614460_8c518e2a64_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614460/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614460/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
You also see a brand new NOS flatcable to use on a pod that was missing it, thanks to my good friend from the South of Germany :)
Screenshot:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8345/8218614918_3f9cb72185_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614918/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8218614918/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Oh by the way, of course the system has it's own internal display for "everyday" work:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/8161905480_a95e79ae51_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8161905480/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8161905480/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
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Uh...did you like the pics so much you just wanted to copy them Etienne ? ;D ;D
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uh!!! ??? ???
« Reply #33 on: 25 November 2012, 23:27:09 »
i dont get it, i was in bed early (you guys know why) so i was not online at that time......
is my account hacked ??
hmmm watch out for strange posts from me, because it may not be me ;D :D
but yes.., i like the pics ;D ;D ;D
EDIT:
Looking abit further, i see it was posted from this IP 77.x5x.x7.x3x
more investigation by instpector gadget tells me that it came out of ridderkerk and using UPC as provider... ::)
(http://www.harry-hilders.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/harry-hilders-gadget.jpg)
I guess i forgot to logout from your Ipad ? :wink:
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O....AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA !!!! YES that must be it :)
Didn't even notice it, LOL :)
Good detective work ;D
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uh!!! ??? ???
« Reply #33 on: 25 November 2012, 23:27:09 »
i dont get it, i was in bed early (you guys know why) so i was not online at that time......
23:27, early? What is late for you? :P
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well last saturday it was 2.30 am that was extremely late for me
in general i go to sleep around 22:30 ;D
if i dont, i cannot get out of my bed in the morning..
I am a morning person ;)
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Cool thanks ! If needed I'll let you know :)
Guys check this out: http://arcarc.xmission.com/Test%20Equipment/Fluke/Fluke9100.avi
(71 Mb.... I had to play it on VLC player, didn't run in Quicktime)
Rule #1 Always VLC player, never sucky quicktime... ;)
Mmmm....I just discovered something very cool VLC stuff.....
It's called VLC streamer. If you install this app on your iPad, and the "helper" (Weirdly also called VLC streamer) on your iMac (or Windowz thing...) you can watch (almost) any video file on your computer on the iPad directly (I mean, without converting it in iTunes). Tested it with AVI's and WMVs and works great.
BUT, even better: you can then "forward" the stream to your AppleTV to watch it on your TV/home cinema set. You do need the payed version for this, but it's only €1,79 and definitely worth it IMHO.
More info here:
http://hobbyistsoftware.com/vlcstreamer
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WAHOO ! Long live Marktplaats ! :)
I just traded a working 8088 pod for a working Z80 pod !
Oh and did I mention I already had converted my 6800 pod (rather useless because (almost) not used in arcade games) into a 6502 pod ?
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8088 could be handy if you want to diagnose a XT pc ;D
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Sounds good, I have a non-working sega/data east Astro Fighter pcb with 6502 proc., maybe I will have some questions about it. ;)
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I just diagnosed my very first fault on an arcade PCB with my Fluke. I'll immediately will admit that I could have found the issue just using my eyes too......
"Just for fun" I hooked up the Lunar Lander board that I got with the cab, remember it is converted to Asteroids with some bootleg kit. It was totally dead when I tried it in the cab....
Hooked up my 6800 to 6502 converted pod, powered up UUT. Fluke says UUT power is not OK. I check on the board with my other Fluke (the DVM ;)) and indeed it's only about 4,6V
Nice, so the voltage detection of the Fluke 9100A works :) Cranked up my test switcher PSU to 5,1V on the board and no more complaints from the Fluke.
So first things first: Bus check. Response => pod timeout Bad UUT clock.....touch the 6 Mhz test point with the Fluke probe and it sticks high. Reset the board and it sticks low and whatever I do it sticks low.
Mmmm so we got a clock problem, let's see where that crystal is.......mmmmm....should be very near that test-point but all I see is........two holes in the board.....the crystal is missing or broke off :P
Guess I'll need to dig one out or order one....gonna be hard to get the exact correct frequency AFAIR.....but OK I feel both happy and a bit stupid for not noticing this right away :)
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:D :D
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Take 12MHz, that is close enough. Preferrably a HC49 - low profile - case. I will never break off again....
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Yeah I prefer the low profile one's too :)
I have a cocktail bootleg Asteroids PCB somewhere that is probably too far gone to fix anyway, might be able to (temporarily) pull the one from that one (if it still has it ;))
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My friends......when I sold my cabs, I kept this Fluke 9100 set because I thought maybe it would be useful to repair my beloved Atari 800 computers and those from others. However, first of all, those about 35 year old Atari's are such quality built devices that they hardly have any issues and when they do, they are mostly common, well known ones (like bad keyboard mylar) or bad RAMs (XE only, only when a certain Jack Tramiel had taken over and applied his Commodore tactics).
Anyway.....I am looking for a good new home for the entire set as it takes up a lot of space.
Please note that I already sold one of the 9100's. It was the one without the HD and monitor output, so the most useful one is still here.
However, it has one "big" issue: the front plastic has broken off. This means the keyboard/display part has become detached from the unit. Last time I started it up it still worked though....I'll definitely check it again ASAP.
Anyway, you will need to repair this in some clever way....maybe a good glue job ?
Further....everything is still there....but some pods I have opened up to work on and did not re-assemble. I am also NOT guaranteeing all pods work. I have used the system a few times and sometimes it worked fine but sometimes I had the feeling there was something wrong with some pods despite testing OK.
There are LOADS of extra's....really a treasure but I'll be honest enough that not all extra's may be useful for the hobby.
Anyway, most people know how much certain pods for this system are worth, as well as a working 9100A. The separate keyboard alone is very much searched after and is included and working. If you want I can add the Philips CM8833 monitor and the cable.
Please let me know if there is any interest. This stuff is heavy and it's a lot. Pick-up would sure be the best.
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Hello Andre,
Few times ago, i was wondering if that 9100 was part of your bulk sale, i got my answer :D
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Pb sent