Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Reboot on May 09, 2012, 12:47:49 PM

Title: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 09, 2012, 12:47:49 PM
Hello everyone, my name is Yungle, live in Amersfoort, the Netherlands and just started this great hobby. Recently came across an Operation Thunderbolt machine which is in fairly good condition except for the guns. Googled this common problem it seems, but not much real sollutions are handed hence this toppic here.

Many wrong? info or at least contradictory info about the guns. It suposed to have lenses or a small pcb inside the guns which I did't have in mine. It's a position gun and not a light/lens gun which is used in Operation Wolf cabs(?) although some on ebay say the guns are the same

One of the guns was working and the other was dead. Being a real noob with electronic I still got it to work because there were only 3 broken cables. Solder them and viola it workt again. Now I just have to calibrate them.

The real problem is the recoil function of the guns. One was working but it falters, so in my stupidity I siliconspray'd the iron shaft wich goes in/out the seranoid when the game was on. Worked great for 1 minute or so then it died. So now both guns don't 'vibrate' no more.

Does someone knows where you can buy this part, preferably in Holland? It's a seranoid C1101225A. Is it a special part only for this game or a common part wich can be bought in every electronic shop? Googled it but found nothing.

Ps. does someone live nearby and can show me howto savely discharge a monitor,seen movies but still have questions, in real with somebody who knows what he's doeing is the best.

Thanks
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: level42 on May 09, 2012, 01:04:57 PM
Not sure what you mean with seranoid, isn't it solenoid ?
Googled the part number and it looks usually fermented to as a coil....which it simply is of course.

First: we always like some kind of intro from new members on the "All the rest" section...

Next: did you try to see if maybe the copper wire is broken from the solder tags ? That is what usually happened on my pinball.

Afaik these are both hard to find and very expensive. Finding them in Holland is very unlikely, maybe you carry pinball shops like www.flipperwinkel.nl. Ask Hans, maye he has another solution, using a another coil or even rewinding them ?

About discharging a monitor.....interesting. I have been thinking about doing a one day "class" with all kinds of technical stuff to be explained/shown etc. Would any more people be interested and what would you pay ? The reason I say that is because I want to raise some money for a good cause, namely hiring a decent transport van with tail lift for Eurocade.....ok I'll just make a new topic for that :)
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 10, 2012, 12:51:01 AM
@ level42  -  paying is not the problem if it can't be any other way, but time is. I must work when most are free and when i'm free others must work or sleep. :(

how to include pictures here? must search for it because nowhere are pictures of the innerworks of the guns (at leased i couldn't find it) and i made a few so others can find them here if they search for it.
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Muerto on May 10, 2012, 10:06:41 AM
@ level42  -  paying is not the problem if it can't be any other way, but time is. I must work when most are free and when i'm free others must work or sleep. :(

how to include pictures here? must search for it because nowhere are pictures of the innerworks of the guns (at leased i couldn't find it) and i made a few so others can find them here if they search for it.


How to post pictures:

Upload your pictures to the web/ftp/DropBox (in this case, place them in the public folder!!!)
Use the link that is displayed in the browsers address line (ie. www.hulahula/myfolder/image.jpg)
Use the (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif) button, press it, and a
Code: [Select]
[img][/img] will be displayed.

Place the link to the image inside:
Code: [Select]
[img]www.hulahula/myfolder/image.jpg[/img]

And the picture will be shown  :)
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 10, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
Thanks Muerto, had seen it somewhere on the forum before, but forgot where.
Here are some photo's and a .mp4 video made with my HD2 phone.

The non working gun because of the 3 loose wires, 2 here on top of the solenoid

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0417.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0420.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0426.jpg)

and 1 here on the trigger switch which is also not in a good condition

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0419.jpg)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0456.jpg)

And here is a movie with the gun in action before the recoil went dead because of the silicon oil i sprayed on the iron pin that goes in/out of the solenoid (big black thing with the numer on it)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/VIDEO0445.mp4
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: level42 on May 11, 2012, 12:16:07 AM
Did you check the diode ? Do you get any voltage over the coil ?
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: ataritoobin on May 11, 2012, 12:28:26 AM
It's been a while since I've owned an Operation Wolf (and as you said, the guns are different) but is there a separate fuse for the gun coils?  If so it's possible that a fuse blew.
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 11, 2012, 04:46:05 PM
Did you check the diode ? Do you get any voltage over the coil ?

Just bought a multimeter so looking on youtube how to use it to messure thing.
Can you tel me how to measure it with a picture? (diode = that small thing on the selenoid where the wires are soldered?)  Machine on or off when measuring?
I'm clueless...


It's been a while since I've owned an Operation Wolf (and as you said, the guns are different) but is there a separate fuse for the gun coils?  If so it's possible that a fuse blew.

Haven't have the faintest clue, hopefully it has, will look into that option, thanks
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 19, 2012, 04:40:37 PM
It's been a while since I've owned an Operation Wolf (and as you said, the guns are different) but is there a separate fuse for the gun coils?  If so it's possible that a fuse blew.

Finally found the fuses

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0509.jpg)

Had to force the backdoor because i was missing a key.
Swapped the 2  f 5A fuses of which one was indeed blown and the gun worked again :)
....... for a minute and than the fuse blew again.  :(

What could have caused it to blow again? and why is the other gun not working although it's fuse is good.

When the vibration works it fades after a few rounds of bullet shot. Does someone know what cause this behavour?

Found another problem. The non vibrating gun i could calibrate 100%, but the gun that was working has problems with the calibration. Have to look into that more.
 
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on May 30, 2012, 02:03:12 AM
yeah, finally the two guns are usable, so playtime ;D

Still one can't vibrate, but the one which blew fuses all the time and could'n be callibrated is now 100 % i think.

Had taken that one apart and dry/cleaned the plunger and the hole in solenoid so no oil moisture is left behind anymore, which caused the fuses to blow.
The bad calibration was caused by yet another almost broken solder of the y-axis wheel in de base of the gun.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0547.jpg)

Strange thing though, when in two player mode the vibration is almost nill (demped) when both players are shooting at exactly the same time. Alone the vibration works perfect, not fading anymore.   :?

And another small issue pops up. Sometimes the sound out of the left speaker is very faint or dissapears while playing.  ???

Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on June 03, 2012, 12:59:59 AM
Finally fixt the other gun, now both are fully vibrating and working even when shooting at the same time  ;D
Turns out that i had soldered the wire wrongly on the diode(?)/solenoid. This left gun had to be mirrored from the right gun!

I thought, as the wires were lose at the time, i had to solder it the same way as the other working gun. And because i don't know shit about electronics i dared not to solder it the other way, scared to make things worse or blow things up at the time. But today while trying to measure the wire and diode(?) with a multimeter which gave for me strange readings, i saw that the diode(?) on the left gun was mirrored of the one on the right gun. Hadn't noticed it before.

There are 2 black lines on the diode(?). One thin line and one thick line. The left gun has the thick line on the right and the right gun has it on the left

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0578.jpg)    (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0579.jpg)

So because i don't know what else to do i manned up and soldered the wires the other way. Oh horror when the good gun and compleet sound didn't work anymore!
Why oh why did i do it crossed my mind, the cab was finally playable minus one vibration. But it turned out that both fuses, one f5A for the sound and the other f5A for both guns were blown by my measuring with the multimeter (still don't know how to use it  :()

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/78649287/IMAG0508.jpg)

So looking back it turned out an easy fix even for someone with 2 left hand and a total electronic noob.
An experienced person like DarthNuno or Etienne or Level42 (those guys i read alot on these forum) whould have fixed this cab within an blink of an eye.

So now only the sound issue, which isn't that big of a deal but hopefully a simple fix also. Have looked at the speakers connection, but the wires looked firm soldered not loose or broken. Any sugestions?
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: level42 on June 03, 2012, 01:18:00 AM
Good work! I like reading about this because it's not that common to see people actually fix them. The best way to learn is by doing, even of you make mistakes ! :)

Not always time to give elaborate info.....sorry.

Sound could be of course loose wires somewhere in the harness or a problem in the audio amp section..
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on June 03, 2012, 07:58:36 AM
There are 2 black lines on the diode(?). One thin line and one thick line. The left gun has the thick line on the right and the right gun has it on the left

Thats one way to look at it  ;D

I always thought it was a black component with a silvery line that indicates the side of the cathode  ;D

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KFH3bcF3OtU/Tc832uRSvUI/AAAAAAAAAAw/grTLHufUi_w/s1600/single_fire_tach_adapter_diode.jpg)

Anyway, great you did find the problem, and now you see that close examination and looking very good for differences can matter alot.

I did not know that eather, and probably would have made the same mistake.

As for the audio, first step is to "beeb" the wire from the edgeconnector to the speaker, then you know if there is a cut in the harness.

if that is ok, take a speaker and hook it up at the edge connector and see if you got sound.

if not, find the audio amplifier on the board and use the pattented "Level42 Finger Test"  ;)

https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3576.0 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3576.0)

Goodluck !
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on June 05, 2012, 09:43:32 PM

Thats one way to look at it  ;D

I always thought it was a black component with a silvery line that indicates the side of the cathode  ;D

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KFH3bcF3OtU/Tc832uRSvUI/AAAAAAAAAAw/grTLHufUi_w/s1600/single_fire_tach_adapter_diode.jpg)

]

Oh yes now i get it,   ;D
didn't get your explanation first time rond. All the electronic symbols are unfamiliar to me and i don't understand english that well.

Thanks for the sugestions Level42 and Etienne, will try them.
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: blackie63 on November 18, 2014, 12:38:28 PM
an old thread but one that helped me to sort out the recoil on my operation thunderbolt ,i had tried changing the fuses over and one kept blowing, i then noticed from your pictures that whoever had the machine before me had rewired the solenoid in the guns back to front ,one quick rewire and they were fully functional so thanks for the help. ;D
Title: Re: Operation Thunderbolt guns
Post by: Reboot on November 19, 2014, 01:16:56 AM
your welcome, but you must not thank me, but this great forum with all the great helpfull members.  :spaceace: