Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: level42 on October 24, 2011, 08:48:24 PM
-
And suddenly you own two Atari Hard Drivin' cockpits...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSC00047/web.jpg?ver=13194807650001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSC00048/web.jpg?ver=13194807700001)
Sorry for the crappy mobile phone pics.
On the left is what I will be calling HD1. This is the machine I got from "the warehouse".
On the right is HD2. This is the one that I found thanks to ChrisChris' earlier trip and pics (thanks !!!)
To start: both machines are complete (apart from some tiny exterior parts). Original 25K5515 monitors and all electronics are in there.
HD1 is the best looking one. The top plastics have no cigarette burn. the sides are pretty nice. (Although transport to Holland caused some extra damage, apparently it wasn't fixed properly enough).
HD2 looks a bit less. Cigarette burns on the covers and the general condition is less. This one has served in lunaparks along the Belgium coast for many many years (notice the URL in plastic letters, apparently it has been running quite some years !!!)
HD1 is almost completely dead. The monitor did give something on the screen when I tested it in the warehouse, but once we tried it (that is Polderarcade and I) again, we had some extremely nice fireworks around the fly-back :)....I checked the CRT and anode but both seem to have survived the trip...
The only signs of live that this one gives are correct credit sounds, and the wheel moves a bit now and then.
HD2 shows more signs of life. Although the monitor produces a very unsynced and "wrapped-around" picture, we can make out some test screens. Earlier the seller went through tests and found that 3 VRAM IC's are indicated as dead.
I already have 5 of these received so that won't be a big problem.
The tests also indicated that the sound board gave errors, but we sure heard a lot of test sounds.
We tried to adjust the monitor to get a better picture, but it only got worse. I was already happy to get it back to its first poor state....
Although the pic doesn't show it, there was also a marquee with HD2, it looks even better than that of HD1.
Now, my initial goal was to make one good working HD from both machines. After that I'd try to either sell the remaining and/or keep parts like PCBs etc.
However, Polder (who kindly offered some temporary storage space for these two AND helped with the move of HD2) mentioned he was definitely interested in the "lesser" machine.
So, now our goal is to get both working !
The first digging through the net has been done and I found some info about the monitors. There are fly-backs available (again!).
Note that these are medium resolution monitors and so we can't use standard res monitors for test work.
First goal is to either get one of the monitors in good working condition or hook up something else so we can see what the PCBs do...
The machines are very complicated and challenging.
They have full force-feedback on the steering wheel, and I don't mean some weird shaking, but serious electrical motor power. The wheel spins in attract, one of the great things about this game IMHO.
There is the shifter and of course gas, break and clutch pedals.
The seat moves out and turns to allow easy stepping into it. Once you moved into the cab and start a game, the seat is supposed to be fixed by an electromagnet. The cab also measures the distance between the screen and the seat. If the distance is low, it figures there must be a kid in there, so force feedback is reduced and vice-versa.
This is going to be a fun, but long running project...but for the short term we want to get both into a state that we can move one of them into my game room...
-
o, and no, they can't be linked...
-
Good to see you back online and i love the picture of the twins.
-
Nice cabs, hope to try them out at next Eurocade! :D
Seems like this game has a very valuable pcb:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Drivin-PCB-TESTED-WORKING-/250879033832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a698e41e8
-
Thanks Pieter !
Some more info:
The right one is on a cart because they removed the rear wheels on that one...
It also was too close to someone spray painting something in grey, because the seat has obviously a lot of grey paint on one side.... :S
For the technically minded, here is Jed Margolin's (the guy behind the hardware, just like SW) pages about Hard Drivin':
http://www.jmargolin.com/schem/schems.htm
He put up a lot of schematics that Atari either didn't publish with the game or had parts missing in a try to prevent bootlegging. (Which failed, I've seen one bootleg called Road Drivin').
-
Nice cabs, hope to try them out at next Eurocade! :D
Seems like this game has a very valuable pcb:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Drivin-PCB-TESTED-WORKING-/250879033832?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a698e41e8
Yeah but that's Chattanooga......it's pretty famous for high pricing stuff.
Still....HD PCB's are pretty hard to find, especially working. I would love to have a Race Drivin' PCB set. That one offers more variation in tracks and has even better simulation. Note that Atari constantly names Hard Drivin' a simulator, and not a game. I think they are pretty close to the truth with that.
-
More pics !
Earlier pics I took of Hard Drivin' nr. 1
This is the one that has spent it's life on the Belgian coast and works "the most".
Impressive bunch of hardware...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7278/web.jpg?ver=13196560740001)
The marquee looks great:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7279/web.jpg?ver=13196560840001)
Life !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7280/web.jpg?ver=13196560900001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7281/web.jpg?ver=13196560990001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7282/web.jpg?ver=13196561070001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7283/web.jpg?ver=13196561150001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7284/web.jpg?ver=13196561230001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/DSCF7285/web.jpg?ver=13196561310001)
Some pics the seller sent me after he had run some tests:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/IMG_0072/web.jpg?ver=13196562560001)
Sadly it gave a sound board error when we tried it...
The bad RAMs:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101025/IMG_0073/web.jpg?ver=13196562440001)
-
Hard Drivin' 2, the nicer looking but "less" working one...
The Med-res Wells Gardner 25K5515. The tube is supposedly compatible with that in SW cockpits. That alone makes it worth the money ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7286/web.jpg?ver=13196578870001)
Hardware complete too here. The Switcher is mounted in reverse compared to HD1...?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7287/web.jpg?ver=13196578970001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7288/web.jpg?ver=13196579040001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7289/web.jpg?ver=13196579130001)
No cigarette burns !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7290/web.jpg?ver=13196579190001)
At least something works.... bit yellowed though, but I've seen that with other marquees, should be possible to clean up.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7291/web.jpg?ver=13196579250001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7293/web.jpg?ver=13196579330001)
Amazingly none of the artwork is generally available.....yet ;):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7294/web.jpg?ver=13196579380001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7295/web.jpg?ver=13196579460001)
Best side, but a bit damaged now sadly...looks very nice here still:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101032/DSCF7296/web.jpg?ver=13196579540001)
-
On request took some pictures today
How the screen looks like at the moment:
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd1.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd7.jpg)
Back of the screen:
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd5.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd4.jpg)
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd3.jpg)
Pot meter explanation :
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/HD/hd6.jpg)
One lesson making this pic be damn carful with power on screens :o
-
Did it bite you ?
The seller mentioned that the picture stabilized after having it run for a while. That's probably why he could take the good looking pictures...not sure if it will get warm enough in "the barn" though ;)
I was hoping for a picture (or video) of the other monitor though.....nicest miniature lightning storm I've ever seen... ;D
-
I think its not really oke for the monitor second time it was more of a candle than a light storm. ;)
And yes it bit me, next time I byte back :twisted:
-
I think its not really oke for the monitor second time it was more of a candle than a light storm. ;)
And yes it bit me, next time I byte back :twisted:
Haha, now you're fully charged.
Candle ey....nice....or not.
At least we are pretty sure it's dead. ;)
I wondered if there is anyone who has one of those video converter boards that turn CGA/EGA into VGA (like this:
(http://www.jammaboards.com/store/images/uploads/GBS-8220/GBS-8220_WM_480x484_LR.jpg)
that we could borrow for a little while. Would be very handy to test the PCB's on a regular VGA monitor...
-
I think you are a lucky guy having robin living close to you with this project..
although, replacing rams,burning roms and checking capacitors you can do yourself with the equipment and experience you have ;)
Bring on that rearside, so i can put my See-through scanner on it !
-
Yes, we can get these babies back to life !!
Robin kindly offered to go over to Polder's place on a saturday to work on them, an offer I cant refuse of course ! :)
-
By the way, the seller of HD1 had two new cabs in....full size Mad Dogs but they were both incomplete and the tops were butchered. They were built by Atari Ireland.
Pretty funny because there are Amiga's inside these Atari bult machines :)
Then again, the Amiga was the follow up of the Atari 8 bit line :)
-
am i the only other one who understands the 'drive talkin' thread title? :!:
-
am i the only other one who understands the 'drive talkin' thread title? :!:
(http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/f/a/6c44776061d7e1e7136dc19b1f810d65/1059119.jpg)?
-
am i the only other one who understands the 'drive talkin' thread title? :!:
Euhh no, i have the song in my head since Andre posted this ;D
I cant get it out of my head ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVjITlgqlHo&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVjITlgqlHo&feature=related)
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
This is a video...
http://youtu.be/XBw25CrUS-o
Listen to that build up in the beginning. A song with a real intro !!
It's funny, my mum was a fan of them in their "Massachusetts" and "lonely days" era and used to play an (then already) old record often.
I thought they sounded old-fashioned. And then they came up with this......followed by all the other brilliant songs....and then I and my brother were fans :)
Now I love all the old stuff too...
Whenever I'm in Massachusetts (where my relatives live) I keep having that song in my head :) !
-
Rumor has it there is a Hard Drivin' saturday coming up ! ;D
-
goodluck guys !
-
Look what the mail man got for me today
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02705.jpg)
Got the feeling it can be useful Saturday
-
talk about Right on time delivery ;D
Do you have a vga momitor for testing or will we use the extreme testing device ;)
-
Have a nice spare lcd computer screen
The easiest way I think ;D
Also got a nice lcd television yesterday For testing only missing the power supply :? I noticed when I came home
So yes this one is right on time
The signs are good for tomorrow
-
They were ! :)
We had a great day and I'd like to thank Polder and Robin very very much for their help !!!
We first hooked up the Gonbes CGA/EGA to VGA converter and a VGA LCD. The thing is a brilliant little device for an amazingly low price !
However, when you buy it, the menu's are all in Chinese. Through a nice Youtube video we found out we had to select option 4 to switch it to English. (The manual doesn't tell you this ....)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7498/web.jpg?ver=13205345710001)
We started working on the machine with the closest to working hardware. One of the nice things of (a bit) more recent hardware is that the testing options are more extensive and reliable. The test indicated three bad RAMs on the main board.
(http://forums.arcade-museum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81489&d=1314048765)
(This is an older picture done by the seller, monitor looked much better then !)
So we piggy-backed the indicated RAMs with new ones (had bought 5 from e-bay) and to our slight surprise 2 of the 3 turned to green, which meant they passed the test.
Our conclusion was that the third bad one probably had a short preventing the piggy-backed RAM to work properly. Then Robin had an idea I had never thought about before and he cut out the bad RAM as close to the body as possible and THEN piggy-backed the new RAM to the "left over" pins ! (Of course this was all just for testing)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7499/web.jpg?ver=13205879890001)
And it worked !! It passed the tests and we successfully went into attract mode. We could start a game, but clearly there was a problem with the gas-pedal as couldn't get the car to move. But all of the problems with the controls will be investigated later, first we need reliable board-sets.
SO we went to the other HD. This one had showed some nice lightning storms around the HVT of the monitor and I couldn't resist powering it up again. Now there was a nice flame coming out of the top of the HVT. I tried to film it but....I kinda messed up with the camera...
Didn't want to burn it down completely so we disconnected that monitor.
This board also had 4 bad RAMs on the main-board. We used the same tricks again and got all of them working.
However, on this set there were also bad RAMs reported on the ADSP board.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7504/web.jpg?ver=13205345960001)
These are rather rare 4kx4 Static CMOS RAMs. The schematics indicate them as 8168D45 but on the board there are hm3-65768m-5
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7511/web.jpg?ver=13205885820001)
I found a source for hm3-65768BK-5 RAMs in Europe for a reasonable price but will these work ? I found a data sheet for the hm3-65768m-5 and it lists the hm3-75768k-5 but not the BK. The K is faster than the M so I figure it will be OK.
Further, we removed the monitor chassis, the "hood" can be shifted backwards to work on the monitor:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7503/web.jpg?ver=13205345800001)
This looks pretty impressive IMHO, it looks more like a car-workshop ;)
So gonna examine the monitor chassis, bad solderings, caps, pots etc. ALso need to order a new HVT I guess :)
-
Pic I forgot to post:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7500/web.jpg?ver=13205346040001)
Robin swapping some boards to see what happens...
Oh by the way, we discovered that metric stuff is used all over the Hard Drivin's (except for the monitors of course), yippie !
Yesterday evening I did a lot of reading on Jed Margolin's site. Not only the stuff he wrote up about Hard Drivin' but also the VAXMAILS that he has published (the internal e-mail system of Atari) which has lots of interesting stuff about the development of Hard Drivin'.
F.I. he mentions that there is a newer ROM set version than 8.1 but AFAIR both these HD's have 8.1 installed. The gameplay is supposed to be the same, but there are some changes in the testing menu's etc. Didn't find the version number though.
Also, we found out we had to "read-in" all all the controls every time we started up the 2nd PCB set. So I read this on Jed's site:
http://www.jmargolin.com/rdy2k/hdzram.htm
and it's clear that this is caused by these "Zeropower" static RAMs having dead batteries.
Amazingly these are still being made and RSonline sells them at a reasonable price:
http://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/allied-extended-range/2508332311/?
Each board-set has two of these though...
I also read that Race Drivin' actually has a link feature....man what a shame we don't have two Race Drivin' PCB sets ....would be cool to try to hook both machines up and race each other !
However, we're still pretty far from working machines, as mentioned, plenty of controls problems to figure out.
-
Reading this topic makes me wish to start soon my Race Drivin' resto!
-
every time i see a picture of the cabinet from the side like that :arrow:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7503/web.jpg?ver=13205345800001)
i get the feeling that something has been cropped off!!!
-
Reading this topic makes me wish to start soon my Race Drivin' resto!
You have the upright right ?
-
Yes, i have a complete upright. It's stored in a garage far from my house and i will not work on it in the near future, unfortunately :'(, but i can read this topic to feel it closer :D
-
Some random video clips....missed some important parts though....but whatever...
http://youtu.be/woKv6xH2ECs
-
Nice! The test shows a GSP error... does the game starts anyhow?
-
As long as we piggy backed the bad rams on the mainboard we got one set to run OK in attract and we could start a game.
The other had more issues of course that need to be fixed first...
-
André, did you shot some photo of the "piggi-backing" work? My Race Driving gave the GSP error when i tested it the last time (one year ago) and i will for sure need to master that "magik trick" in the future ;)
-
Nothing magic about it. Take a new RAM, push the legs a little closer too each-other ALL TOGETHER) (f.i. push it on a table so all pins will bend in a bit).
Then push the new RAM over the old one, making sure all legs make contact with that of the old RAM.
That's it. Double check that the chip is exactly over the old pins. Then power up and look what happens.
If you still have a failure, you will have to cut of the body of the old RAM and then you can do the same trick on the left over pins that are still on the PCB.
Remember, this is all just for quick diagnostics and should only be done to figure out what RAMs are bad/can be fixed. The test screens seem very reliable on Hard Drivin' (this is an advantage of new(er) hardware) so what the GSP tests report is probably true.
This pic shows 2 of the RAMs piggy-backed....take a good look (zoom if needed).
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7499/web.jpg?ver=13205879890001)
-
Ah, i can see those "Pigs" now ;D! A closer look was needed, thanks!
-
I HATE YOU ATARI !!!!!!!!!
Jeeeeez......I FINALLY finished removing all the old defective RAMs on both PCB sets !!!
WHY, WHY, WHY DIDN"T YOU SOCKET THESE RAMS ATARI, YOU CHEAP, LAZY......&)^%)&^)&^$@$)&^ !!!
248 freaking legs had to be cut, soldered out of the PCB, the holes cleaned of solder, new sockets soldered in, and chips mounted.
I did it in several days because the work is so tedious and well....my focus is not 100% yet.
The worst part was that for some reason, two corner (across each other) holes were close to impossible to get fully rid of solder. Maybe these holes are a bit tighter so the chips "stuck" before they were wave-soldered or something I don't know, but it was a nightmare !!!
I damaged only 1 soldering eyelet, and believe me that was a miracle. Soldered two bridging wires and measured, should be OK now.
Now I want to TEST !!!! I want to know if all this effort was worth it !!
The plan: I've got the same video converter now here (thanks Jochen ! Hope the EA boot works ?) and I will take a switching power supply to put in +5V. The game also seems to use -15V and +22V (or the other way around) but I hope these are simply for sound amps or something like that.
Then there is a good thing about this PCB set: The video signals are not only on the "normal" connector that hooks up to the harness, but they also put those standard "lips" test-points that carry the colors, GND and sync, so very easy for temporary test-hook-up.
Will have to do that tomorrow though !
Something else: I sent Jed Margolin an e-mail with various questions and one remark about ROM numbering details. Most was not so interesting but I thought this was interesting enough to publish:
> Last question: I noticed the Sound board has a text "Speech Out" on it....were there plans for speech on Hard Drivin' ?
I put in the circuitry for a Texas Instruments TMS5220 Speech Synthesizer IC. Max (Programmer) and Rick (Project Leader) decided not to use it. So, the parts weren't loaded on the board. If they had wanted speech they could have done it as digitized sound and put it in the sound ROMs.
What a shame would have been nice to have some speech.....does S.T.U.N. Runner use speech ? (Same hardware).
Question for Bart: can you tell me if you already have the Flyback for the monitor ? And where did you buy it ?
-
Why did'nt you call and ask me to bring my desolder iron ?
I'm not using it every day my friend ;)
Anyway, i hope it solves the problems you have had with this board
-
Why did'nt you call and ask me to bring my desolder iron ?
Uhhhh....forgot you have one ! :roll: :roll:
However, I doubt it would have made a lot of difference. The tin was really "tough"...
-
Fly back is ordert but don’t have it yet
Just the easy way ordert at the link you sent me a while back
@ TwistedQuarter
Also i have a spare switching power supply for the one that had some problems
Good to hear you made some progress ;D
Also here a desolder station (when I fix it) at the moment it desoldert itself :-\
-
OK...I hope to test the boards today here. Gonna be fun to hook them up to my 102cm. LED TV :)
Next step is examining the monitor chassis....bit hard without the tubes though ;)
Anyway, I'll check all the caps with the cap tester and order/replace what's neccesary. Maybe gonna need some new pots too.
I've already checked all the main transistors and stuff that often die with the Fly-back but even on the chassis that had the Fly-back burning they measure out OK, so dropping in the Fly-back should at least bring it back to basic life.
One more thing: The board-sets use two NOVRAM IC's with a built-in battery. One is a 48Z02 "Zeropower", the other is a 48T02 "Timekeeper".
I've read about them on Jed's site (http://www.jmargolin.com/rdy2k/hdzram.htm) and luckily both parts are still in production AND available for good prices from RSonline.
One of them we know already to be bad, because we had to set-up the control values every time at boot up, this is because those data are stored in the "Timekeeper".
However, the Timekeeper is rather expensive, and as Jed writes in that page, you can use a "Zeropower" instead for it, at the cost of loosing the date/time clock functions, but I'm not really that interested in when I played how many games.
Following this we can install two "Zeropower" chips instead of 1 Zeropower and 1 Timekeeper.
The Timekeeper would cost €17,71 (http://nl.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=48T02&sra=oss check it out, isn't it funny, the faster version is cheaper than the slower !!!! Morons ;))
The Zeropower is only €9,72 (http://nl.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=48Z02&sra=oss ahhhh, this time the slower version is cheaper :roll:)
(Prices including 19% sales tax).
So Bart, please let me know if you wish to replace these and also if you want to go for 2x Zeropower (like I do). Then I'll order the parts. They come from RS's partner Allied in the US which means a delivery time of about 10 days (but still free shipping ;))
-
Right ! Finally was able to test the boards tonight !
First I had plans to drive from my work location this week up to Polderarcade, but it turned out I had to work relatively late that day AND the travel time was still about an hour according to TomTom so little to gain.....plus it was the only night to "set-up" the x-mas tree and my son loves that...
Anyway....so I reverted to my initial plan to test them here, and it turned out that that was a good idea. I hooked the board up to +5V only and that was enough to test the boards.
First the good of course:
All main board (GSP) RAMs indicate GREEN, so they are now all OK on both board-sets.
Then...the bad...still had a problem with the ADSP board that already had 4 bad RAMS which I of course replaced.
When booting up I already got an ADSP address error and it froze after that. Same results when rebooted and running ADSP RAM test.
SO I checked the board again. I did this using a trick I learned from Randy Fromm's docs: put your DVM in diode check, hook up the + (red) lead to the GND connection of the board (yes !) and then I touched every single pin on the RAMS I replaced and also the one's "around them".
Of course I the other ADSC board also here so I could compare easily. When checking most pins on the RAMs I got about 0.5 V readings and a beep on the DVM. At one pin on a replace RAM not though. No beep and it showed a little over 1V. Compared it to the working board and there that pin was also about 0.5V and I got a beep, so there had to be something wrong. Sure enough further measuring "up" and "down" the RAMs showed that that pin was connected to the previous and following RAM, so there was a problem in the track. Couldn't see where because it was on the component side, but I simply bridged again with two small wires. Measured again and now I got the same results as on the working board.
Fired it up again with high hopes and........still a problem. This time however, it _would_ finish the ADSP RAM test and didn't crash. However, this time there was ANOTHER RAM that failed, one that was testing OK still before :S RAAAAHHHH.
Checked all pins on the RAM and also the one's "above" and "beneath" that one, no shorts or anything that can be measured with the DVM.
That means removing one more bad RAM ! Tomorrow !!!
B.T.W. Bart and Robin: I have the same poor syncing problems as we had with Bart's monitor, but I used my TV, so I guess that's a problem of the converter. Pretty strange, it doesn't seem to like the sync signal....
Anyway, more laterssssss
-
PFffffff....
OK here is where I am right now:
I have one solid running board-set, that is, as long as I leave the sound-board disconnected. When I connect the sound-board the voltage is dropping pretty dramatically and the board crashes regularly. I think it's simply because the switcher can't deliver enough current, so I'm just hoping the sound-board itself is OK.
It is time to put it back in the HD !!!
The second board-set is a different story: The main board is stable.
The ADSP is giving me some nightmares though. I tried piggy-backing the "new" bad RAM. Instead of seeing all green (good) RAMs on the test screen, I see ANOTHER bad RAM !!! Piggy-back that and ANOTHER appears !!! WTF ?!?!
Next the ADSP-2100 stops responding. I exchange the 2100 with the one on the good board and the "bad" 2100 runs fine on the good board. So nothing wrong with the 2100's.
Put them back in original boards and remove all the piggy-backs. Get the same 3 "new" bad RAMs again....
Piggy back one of them and get address errors. I guess piggy-backig is not really working in this case !
I'm not sure, but I suspect the RAM is not buffered by anything to the ADSP-2100.....gonna have to check the schematics for this.
Anyway Bart....this is for you. Here are the next options:
1) replace the "new" bad RAMs with sockets and new RAMs
2) replace ALL the RAMs of this type on the ADSP board. I suggest that because I fear more will die soon or very soon. THis is of course a SHIT-LOAD of work and I think it will eat-up our current supply of these RAMs (which I rather don't do)
3) find another ADSP board. This might be worth a shot but not easy
Let me know what you want to do my friend. In all honesty, I think I reached my goal of getting a working set. I don't mind helping a bit more though of course ! Maybe Etienne could come over to desolder the "new" bad RAMs to make this job a bit easier ??
Anyway, my focus will shift for now to the monitor chassis. I'll replace all the caps I've already got here, the others were ordered.
-
interesting write-up, andré, although i only understand half of it :P
-
Sure, i will come over to help and bring the desolder station.
But maybe bart want to do this himself, i thought he had a desolder station also ?
its not that i dont want to help, but i dont want to spoil it because you wanted to do it yourself.
Let me know, and i'll act to it ;)
-
Ah yeah I think you're right !
-
OK for what it's worth here is the list as I found the caps on two Hard Drivin' 25K5515 chassis:
The deviations from the K4900 list I found are confirmed on BOTH chassis and are original caps (all caps are Elna's on both chassis)
C201 1000u 16V (not 100uF as often mentioned !)
C205 470u 16V
C301 330u 50V (not 25V !)
C303 2.2u 50V
C308 2.2u 50V
C310 10u 160V
C311 10u 160V
C313 100u 160V
C315 1u 50V
C351 1u 50V
C352 47u 25V
C354 47u 25V
C506 22u 160V
C507 47u 160V (not 200V but OK...)
C701 1000u 25V
C702 10u 100V (Not 160V or 200V but OK)
C505 560u 200V (that one is probably also on the K4900 but it's never listed because it's big (the filter cap))
So far not too shocking. Now the only extra's I found:
C100 47u 25V (this is on the elevated small pcb on the left of the chassis)
Also there is a cap piggy-backed over D306 @ 1uF 50V
I'll post an updated cap-map tomorrow.
For the record, these are the one's I found to be bad:
Chassis with burned out HVT:
C201,C310, C701, C702
Chassis with OK HVT:
C201,C205,C701
What I found a bit amazing was that most showed a (much) lower capacity and not a bad ESR. Some 1000uF one's were less than 500 uF now.
I think only 2 or 3 had a bad ESR. All in all not too many bad caps and the tester already proved it's use ;)
-
Well today I had to work in 020 again and so I agreed with Polder to drive to him from work as he lives pretty close to 020.
I had brought both HD PCB sets, the working one to test, the other one so Polder can have a go on it with his desoldering station and replace even more RAMs....
Also brought the two fixed monitor chassis.
First put back one chassis and hooked it up completely to the tube and the power. We didn't connect it to the board, let's first see if it powers up OK.
Well, power on and a small flash white flash near where the fuse is. No power up sound, nothing. So.....we're not there yet.
For the other chassis the HVY hadn't arrived yet so we couldn't try that one.
So it was back to the VGA converter and LCD screen for testing the game PCB set.
Installed it in the "most beautiful" of the two cabs and to my excitement it passed ALL tests.
Even the sound board was checked OK. It does give a ROM check error on the sound board, but I read on Jed Margolin's site that this is normal behavior. And indeed it worked pretty well !
However, the steering pot meter must be completely gone on this cab. It's (apparently) producing all kind of weird values because I was steering straight but the car went in all kind of directions. We tried to read in the pot meter values again (calibrate) and it indicates that the "high" value is too high so there has to be something wrong. Because of the weird pot values, the motor steers the wheel like nuts in all kinds of direction, pretty forcefully !
Anyway, it was impossible to even try a bit of a game on this cab.
SO we moved to the second cab. This one doesn't have the looks, but seems to have more parts working....
Anyway, it passed all tests again and we tried another game:
http://youtu.be/WDxXodYsIww (sorry, crappy phone cam shots, was all I had with me...but you get the idea ;)
Works pretty well !! If we'd have a proper syncing on the VGA card we would have actually been able to try a decent game.
However, both cabs seem not to go in automatic shifting for some strange reason, and the shifters on both have some troubles.
Anyway, we are one big step further. Going to have to check the monitor chassis next why the fuse blew....
-
COOL !
-
020, 020? What does that mean, please explain! ??? ??? ;D ;D ;) ;)
-
020, 020? What does that mean, please explain! ??? ??? ;D ;D ;) ;)
LOL !
I think I already figured out why the fuse blew on the monitor chassis and the reason is freaking embarrassing.
I had previously removed the HOTs (Horizontal Output Transistor) on both chassis to measure them for any shorts and examine the condition of the thermal grease (paste). After 30 years it usually dries out completely and even seems to "disappear".
Probably, when I did this I decided to throw away the mica insulators and cleared the area with some alcohol because the grease is messy and also poisonous. Since there was some time between "sessions" I apparently had forgotten that this HOT needed the insulator and so I mounted it directly to the chassis.....brilliant !
O well, at least I have plenty of mica insulators now, so this is a very easy fix ! Now all I need is a pig-tail fuse but since I hate these things I probably will put in some decent fuse holders and a regular fuse....
-
That is a logical explanation ;)
(http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/shortcircuit6.jpg)
-
:)
I probably will put in a Euro sized fuse holder so I can use normal sized fuses instead of US sized. These fuses are easier to get here and thus probably cheaper. Luckely one of the tracks runs for a great part under the current fuse so it is possible to drill an extra hole for that.
The guy who invented pig-tail fuses should be sentenced to ten years !!!! What a stupid way to save a couple of cents during production....before I started this hobby I never even knew they existed !!
-
Done !
This is what the pig-tail fuse looks like...this one has a cover. It's a normal fuse with two little wires connected to them. They are directly soldered to the PCB....sigh.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7577/web.jpg?ver=13250101980001)
So I desoldered them from both chassis, got out the Dremel (fake one) and drilled an extra hole in the track running to one of the fuses ends. Luckely WG decided to make the track run straight under the fuse so this made it easy !
I also had to drill out the other (original) hole a bit because else the new fuse holder didn't fit.
Had to scrap off the protective layer so there would be a new "copper" soldering island:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7580/web.jpg?ver=13250101810001)
And this is how it looks now, and how it should have been in the first place.... ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7579/web.jpg?ver=13250102070001)
Look at that TIGHT looking transparent fuse cap HAH ! ;)
Both chassis ready for testing now (that is, one still needs a small part called the fly-back, but it has arrived at Polder's place !).
I hear polder still has trouble with RAMs being (going) bad.....man that sucks !!
-
Tomorrow night will be the second try to get the monitors running again at Polder's place.
We'll need to install a fly-back in one of the chassis and then it's testing time again....really hope the few caps I replaced will do the trick :S
If all goes well one of the HD's will be transported to my game room next saturday.
-
i'm always somewhat afraid when putting in a chassis after having worked on it - you never know what to expect: fireworks or fire up!
-
[...] you never know what to expect: fireworks or fire up!
... or the same behaviour it has before the repair :'( :D
-
i'm always somewhat afraid when putting in a chassis after having worked on it - you never know what to expect: fireworks or fire up!
Yeah, isnt this hobby exciting ! ;D ;D
Well we already had plenty of fireworks on one Flyback, Im pretty sure the new one wont give a show like that (at least for some time ;) )
-
There are some parts for sale for this cab on jamma+:
"Hi,
I have a Driver Sound and an ADSP II board from compact hard drivin'.
Totally untested, I got these in a job lot and don't have a Hard Drivin' cabinet.
I'm asking $20 per board on VAPS so I'll ask the same here.
I also have the 8 original ROMs (verified) + 136068-1168 chip (untested) for $30.
IBAN+BIC transfer accepted, PayPal also (grudgingly :-) accepted.
If you want to do a trade, I'm looking for any Marble Madness parts or a whole kit (I'll naturally pay the difference if we come to an agreement)."
-
Interesting
Compact does that mean upright?
Are the board the same? than really interesting
Don’t have enough posts at jamma plus to look in the for sale section
-
Great tip Béla, thanks !
Mmmm, interesting enough for that price. The sound and ADSP boards from a HD compact should also work on a HD cockpit board set.
Polder, your call if you want to give them a go. If the ADSP works you solved your problem.....
-
There were two versions of Hard Drivin'. First came the Cockpit version like ours. Later a kind of upright cab with a small bench was introduced which is know as the Compact.
The Cockpit has a medium resolution monitor. ut the Compact has low res. This is why the Main board is different and not compatible.
Another difference is that the shifter is "digital" so with switches, unlike the cockpit which has a potmeter for the shifter.
The ADSP was used in early Hard Drivin's. The ADSP II board is used in the Compact AND in later cockpits, so for that reason I thin they are compatible.
There wer more diferent boards between "drivin'" games, since there was also Race Drivin and Airborne.
However, the sound board was the same for ALL Drivin' games.
There is good info here :
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=770
-
I knew I had read it on Jed Margolin's website and is confirms that it is 100% compatible:
quote:
The ADSP Board uses an Analog Devices ADSP-2100 in a Pin-Grid Array (PGA) package.
The ADSP II Board is identical to the ADSP Board except it uses the ADSP-2100 in the Plastic-Quad-Flat-Pack (PQFP) package.
ADSP and ADSP II Boards are electrically and mechanically equivalent.
-
PM sent to the seller on Jamma+ !
-
So a somewhat belated report.....
Well, it was another night with mixed feelings....
First we tried the chassis that still had the working fly-back. First we had some problems with the HV connection to the tube audibly leaking (sparkly sound). We cleaned the area around the hole in the tube (yes, was pretty dusty...) and that solved it mostly.
However the picture on screen showed still a vertical collapse. We only had a horizontal line and occasionally a couple of lines jumping up and down of that line. At least everything else seems to work ;)
Vertical collapse is reported to be a pretty common problem on the K4900 (The 25K5515 is basically a K4900 adapted for med-res). So...gonna have to do some more research on that one.
Next Bart soldered in a fresh fly-back on the 2nd chassis. Installed it and.......YES we have a working picture and no fire-works on the fly-back :)
I checked the HV voltage with my trusty vintage Zenith HV meter (also very handy for discharging the tube between sessions) and it was exactly 25kV.
However, the picture was somewhat dim. The canopy over the monitor made that we could make out the picture, but it was sure not as bright as you normally expect.
Turning up the Screen pot on the fly-back made the screen white tinted and show retrace lines (was nice to be able to explain some stuff to Bart ;)). So....there had to be another issue...
Well, checked the manual (gotta love the iPad) and there are no brightness or contrast controls. However, there is a pot called "Black level".
Turning it showed absolutely zero effect. We took out the chassis and measured the pot while turning it and got the same value at every setting. We verified it on the other chassis and there we did see the resistance values vary as expected when adjusting the pot...
We were somewhat tempted to solder the good pot over, but cold, hunger and time had got the better part of us and so we decided to call it a day.
The next step is replacing all the pots. With hindsight, I had already said that I didn't trust them anymore from the first tests and I should have replaced them right away....
O well, never too late. Investigating what values I need and then ordering them for both chassis.
Tomorrow we will pick up 1 cab anyway, this will also help so I can test the chassis at home...
I have arranged a stylish US kind transport for tomorrow :)
To be continued...
-
Any news on those parts from the UK.?
-
Yeah, the seller already put a message on JAMMA+ forum that they are reserved and he sent Polderarcade an e-mail so this looks like it's going to happen !
If the boards work it would solve the problems in one go, let's hope !!
Once again, a golden find by you Béla ! Thanks !!
I just desoldered the suspicious pot and sure enough it is completely bad ! It's funny, you can already feel it when turning the pot there is this grinding feeling, where you expect a smooth feeling (OK, this sounds weird ;)) but anyway, it immediately tells you there must be something wrong inside.
I measured values way in the 2 Mega Ohms instead of 2K Ohms, whatever I turned the pot to. This is EOL for this pot.
Since they are all of the same type, I suggest we replace them all...I've seen bad pots cause jittery pictures on too many monitors. Maybe a pot-kit is even more important on monitors than a cap-kit ;)
I wouldn't be surprised that the pots that control vertical size etc. are also bad on the other chassis....gonna check now....
-
Today it was home coming day for the Hard Drivin' cockpit !!
I decided we needed some fitting transport for this cab, so I'd called my brother-in-law and ask if he could help me out ;D
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7616/web.jpg?ver=13259436350001)
A classic pulling another classic. In fact, the van is OLDER than the Hard Drivin' !!!
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7617/web.jpg?ver=13259436010001)
If anyone would wonder why Polderarcade's name is POLDER arcade......:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7618/web.jpg?ver=13259436890001)
Entering the location we see a familiar bike. The beer-bike !:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7619/web.jpg?ver=13259437470001)
-
But we're here on a mission. Eeny-meeny-miny-moo.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7620/web.jpg?ver=13259436770001)
The left one goes in.....it's pretty damn heavy at about 350 kg. !!!! My brother in law tells me his bike (a Harley of course) is about the same weight (!!!)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7621/web.jpg?ver=13259436440001)
Better set-it up tightly, it's very windy the last week....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7623/web.jpg?ver=13259437890001)
Dog-inspection ;D:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7622/web.jpg?ver=13259437550001)
Although it was dry on the trip to Bart, we didn't trust it and wrapped it with a tarp. Sadly no rubber necking by-passer but hey, the cab is more important than that.....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7626/web.jpg?ver=13259437240001)
And off we go.....:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7627/web.jpg?ver=13259436610001)
Polder's place maybe showing Holland in it's most essential form:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7630/web.jpg?ver=13259436690001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7628/web.jpg?ver=13259437050001)
Where else on earth do you see rivers that are HIGHER than the surrounding grounds ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7632/web.jpg?ver=13259437150001)
Due to lots of rain the past weeks, water levels are really high and a couple of dikes in the North of the Netherlands were actually at danger and people had to be evacuated., you can see the water on the lands....a lonely biker struggles against the wind...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7634/web.jpg?ver=13259437380001)
Yesterday they showed video shot from a helicopter to show all the water and when you see that it seems that our country is mostly water with a lot of green patches (like islands) in between....
I learned a good lesson after Eurocade: ALWAYS remove toppers and stuff like that before transport. The HD topper would be a real wind catcher, so we removed it of course:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7635/web.jpg?ver=13259436520001)
My brother-in-law is a (half) retired truck driver and so we had a smooth and safe trip home. He's used to much larger stuff ;)
Crossing the Brienenoordbrug at Rotterdam:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7636/web.jpg?ver=13259437290001)
....and there it is at it's final destination !:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7637/web.jpg?ver=13259436980001)
I was very happy that the Van is powered with LPG as a V8 does drink quite a bit, especially with a trailer behind it.
Only 37 Euro's at the gas-station, that would have been around 100 Euro's with normal petrol :shock: :shock:
Anyway, it's home safe and sound !
-
That car looks like a hearse. ;D
Nice to hear that you finally have HD at home, can't wait to see it running. ;)
-
Looks like i can pass with the scanner soon ;)
Great that its on location !
-
very cool report, andré, love the style of this pickup! nice to see it on location finally, but man, this barely fits in (or can you move the other cabs further to the left?)!
-
Good to see it is on location, leafing space at an other location. ;D
Do you have space to move the cab around to work on it?
When you open up the floor (under the seed let me know )
Need lots of pics of the wiring on that location.
Also can you sent the manuals you have on your ipad by mail to me?
-
very cool report, andré, love the style of this pickup! nice to see it on location finally, but man, this barely fits in (or can you move the other cabs further to the left?)!
The HD is not wider than an upright cab so I had measured it before moving the cabs to the left. The Puckman of course had left and there already was some space left over space on that side. I can indeed still move the cabs to the left enough to make it fit better. However on the other far side is my SW cockpit and because I still have to work on a number of Amplifone boards and a WG6100 I ned to be able to reach the back so I cant put the cabs tightly to that one. However, Im sure I can move them enough and still be able to reach it.
The small problem with the HD is that you cant put it straight to a wall on the right side because the chair (and the metal support) move outside of the right side to get "into" it.
Thats why it is now a bit angled to the wall...
to work on it I will have to move it into the path between the cabs (or outside with good weather).
I have been thinking of moving two uprights i to the space the HD needs now and move the HD there so that it is along the smaller wall which would make it easier to work on.....we'll see...
It isnt ideal, but I will have to live with it, and I dont regret getting it all, Its going to be one of the highlights in the gameroom.
I think there should even be room for the Lunar Lander but thats when I will "never" have to reach behind the SW cockpit anymore (ie. I need a vector signal generator.... and a serious workplace which will be realised this summer !)
-
@Polder:
About all manuals of all games can be found in the brilliant Arcade Archive:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/
The HD manuals and schematics are here:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Hard_Drivin'/
and the 25K5515 monitor manual is under the monitors section:
http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Monitors/Atari%20Monitor%20TM-295%201st%20Printing%20WG%2025K5515%2025in%20Med%20Resolution.pdf
-
I just desoldered and tested all the main PCB pots of both monitor chassis. The result was pretty shocking.
Only 1 tested OK ! ALL the others showed either a resistance value somewhere in the mega-ohms, others "only" showed crackling when moving/jittering the dial. (Remember those old radios when you heared crackling when turning the volume ? That's what is happening on these.
I must say that the pots on 1 chassis were in worse condition than on the other, but still they all showed problems except 1.
The pots for the colors on the neck board all tested out fine, so did the one's on the over-voltage PCB and the extra little PCB for Vertical Position.
I have very good hopes that "my" chassis's vertical deflection issue will be solved by replacing the pot, as the vertical size one showed mega-ohms values....
Pots ordered at RS !
-
So after this it’s almost a new monitor at least al the part’s at the board :?
Also thanks for the links lot of useful info and not only for hd ;D
Spare boards deal is also done now its waiting till they are here
Did you now the shifter also had a locking coil the same as the one that locks the seat?
-
No I didn't ! What is the use of that ?
I haven't read the manual yet completely, there is SO much info in there.
Then again, this is one hell of a complicated machine !
- Gas, brake and clutch pedals, all with their unique mechanism with springs etc.
- steering wheel with a big-ass force feedback motor
- shifter
- moving chair with pot, locking mechanism etc.
Gonna be fun (I hope ;)) to get it all working OK again. It's so great we have two machines (as we already found out) so we can compare them.
For me, the goal right now is getting it up and running as good as possible. I'll do some basic cleaning and then it will be a "on hold" project. I will return focus on the Ms.Pac soon, really want to finish her. (mmm, that sounds weird :P)
-
Looking good André!! Force feedback is gooooood ;D
-
By the way, for the record, VR 351 is listed as 2k in the manual but it is 3k. There is a fixed resistor soldered in parallel which measures (in circuit) as 8k1.
-
Looking good André!! Force feedback is gooooood ;D
Yup, and this is no "rumble" but REAL force feedback according to the responses of the car.
I think HD doesn't get a lot of love because few people know it from the real cab. This is one of those cabs that TOTALLY sucked on home conversions AND MAME because of the lack of the real controls....
-
I think ms pac can handle it
Before you got her already lots of people have taken a ride on her ;)
I was a bit curios why my shifter doesn’t work, decided to take it apart
Then I found out there was also a magnet coil in there, only mine is missing one wire totally.
Also know now that the sifter works with two pots connected together so the value is combined
And it measured out oke sow think the problem lies some where else
-
Ah, good work !!
I think I understand what the magnet is used for: It probably locks the shifter if the clutch pedal is not depressed. So like a real car it is impossible to shift (well to some extend) when the clutch is not pushed down.
Man they weren't kidding that this is a realistic simulation !
So....considering this, your shifter may actually be working correctly ? I mean you'd have to try a game and use the clutch ....
But I bet you'll need to fix the PCB set first ... ::)
-
Yep, he manual confirms this !
Also, the double pots work like this: one is for horizontal position of the stick, the other for the vertical position !
So....it's almost like a Star Wars yoke (electronically !).
Since they went through so much trouble to get this accurately (instead of using simple contacts for each gear) there MUST be something in software "measuring" the position of the stick, f.i. also between going from one gear to another. I bet this must have effect on the game. Why else would they have done it.
This amazes me more and more. I think I'll drop Jed an e-mail to ask about this....
-
You can yank the stick out of gear in manual mode, then the game complains in text that you should use the clutch.
I'm just headed out to the post office, your boards will be on their way soon!
-
Ah ! But that means forcing it I guess ? By the way, welcome here !
-
Ah ! But that means forcing it I guess ?
Yeah, I guess it resists about as much as a real gearbox would (maybe a bit more) if you pull it out of gear without using the clutch.
By the way, welcome here !
Thank you!
-
@Etienne, I think you will be printing on white adhesive soon right ?
Can you do a couple of these ?
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2uzf9g3.jpg)
Now......I know what your next question is: what is the size ? Well this time I am one step ahead for a change ;)
Diameter is only 3,2 cm. ! (I had thought it would be bigger). I actually found a source for these NOS but since they are so small I can't justify the price they ask AND because of the size I'm sure it's going to look great with your repro's.
That is.....IF you're doing white adhesives of course ;)
-
@Polder: here's a video showing some of the technical stuff. I guess it's not enough detailed for "under the seat" info but....o well, it's a nice vid.....
http://youtu.be/dDGxDmTru38
-
@Etienne, I think you will be printing on white adhesive soon right ?
Can you do a couple of these ?
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2uzf9g3.jpg)
Now......I know what your next question is: what is the size ? Well this time I am one step ahead for a change ;)
Diameter is only 3,2 cm. ! (I had thought it would be bigger). I actually found a source for these NOS but since they are so small I can't justify the price they ask AND because of the size I'm sure it's going to look great with your repro's.
That is.....IF you're doing white adhesives of course ;)
Sure, white vinyl printing time soon..
"a couple" is 2 ? ;D
ps, do you have a steady hand cutting? or we need to hook up a razor on a "passer" ;D
Steering wheel emblem i guess ?
-
Yup ! Damn, I hadn't thought about cutting yet.....however maybe the hub can model for it ?
This is it:
http://www.videogameparts.com/product.sc?productId=68&categoryId=12
-
since its just 3 cm, i will take a few "spares" so you can practice with a scalpel and this hub ;)
-
since its just 3 cm, i will take a few "spares" so you can practice with a scalpel and this hub ;)
Excellent thanks ! And definitly no need to vector at this size :)
-
since its just 3 cm, i will take a few "spares" so you can practice with a scalpel and this hub ;)
Excellent thanks ! And definitly no need to vector at this size :)
I don't do rasters my friend.. 8)
I have the logo and the rest is just typing and circles.. so its done in less than 10 minutes ;)
Do you have a colorcode, or do i just pick it from your pic ?
-
Ahahahaha, the vector master :)
I dont have any colorcodes but I guess the red is "Ferrari red" ;););)
-
Can't believe it.
Two of the pot values were delivered yesterday by GLS.
And I had a note from my "FRIENDS" at DHL that they tried to deliver something, but those (&*^$&(^ don't throw an envelope into a HOME address without a signature.
So, same parts, same company, different transport company, one ALWAYS drops it of (GLS) the other ALWAYS wants a signature.
Not sure if I will wait it out (like last time, the dropped it in the mailbox probably to be done with it a couple of days later) or pick it up.....
So....some of these pots come from other countries then others....beats me....
-
Ahahahaha, the vector master :)
I dont have any colorcodes but I guess the red is "Ferrari red" ;););)
hehe, looks like i need to use the RGB value "211,34,50" ;D
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/ferrarired.jpg)
http://www.colourlovers.com/color/D32232/Ferrari_Red (http://www.colourlovers.com/color/D32232/Ferrari_Red)
-
two versions:
left Ferrari red (RGB 211,34,50), Right pure red (RGB 255,0,0)
Yellow is (RGB 255,255,0)
both are 32 mm. diameter..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hd.jpg)
but i think i need to make a black square instead of a circle so you can cut it out
-
Mmmm, Ill check with the original that is still "partly" on the hub....
-
It's very hard to tell really !!
My first hunch is that the Ferrari red is actually right but I'm not 100% convinced...
-
dont break your head, ill print both, and then you can compare them to the cab which fits best ;)
-
Oke hd2 update time
@ Andre like the tech video its interesting
@ Etienne don’t know how much stickers you’re going to print I’m also interested in a few
Seeing that the center cone from the wheel is available somewhere, mine is missing now.
Thanks to jope I got a package today
Adsp II board
Sound board
Some eprom’s
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02871.jpg)
First test the adsp II board
Original adsp and adsp II site to site
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02872.jpg)
Closeup
Original adsp
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02874.jpg)
The adsp II
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02873.jpg)
Put the boards together en test
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02875.jpg)
Looks oke to me
Second problem still exists sound board
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02876.jpg)
Let’s try to put in the second sound board
Inresting looking closer to the board the board that came in had lots more eproms
Original
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02877.jpg)
Replacement
(http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/polderarcade/DSC02878.jpg)
No pics of the test bud its working
To andre : interesting part with rom checking of the sound board everything is oke
Also the check sum thing
Try to play a game, to bad the monitor had lots of sync problems bud just for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi5E1l8oFPE&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi5E1l8oFPE&feature=youtu.be)
So it looks like we have two working board sets now
-
YES YES YES !!!!FREAKING AWESOME !!!!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: to Béla for finding these and letting us know !!!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: to Jope for selling these !!!!!!
I think the EPROMS differ in size on the boards. Probably the ones one the original board have double the memory of the ones on the "new" board. You can check by reading the numbers.
I dont think I ever heard that tune while entering the hi score table....but I dont think I ever reached it yet either ;);)
O and :spaceace: to polder for managing to hit the cow without visibility at that moment " MOOOOOH"
-
....by the way, the rest of the pots arrived today !
The pots are Made in Costa Rica.....man I see all kind of unexpected exotic places where electronics are manufactured since I started ordering from RS....
They are all soldered in both chassis now, tomorrow will be testing day :)
I had to compromize on one pot which original value was 3k, which isnt available at RS so I chose a 5k pot instead, hope that that will work OK.
-
wonderful job you guys! very exciting to see these two games brought back to life slowly but surely ...
-
Thanks Ull, yeah it's a long (but fun (when successful)) process and we are not even half-way. Once both board-sets are in and working according to the test-screens, we are facing the next (and maybe even bigger) challenge:
Getting all the controls to work properly. Already read about someone (in the US) having serious problems with the steering wheel A/D converters, and that's something the test-screens won't show (well it will show weird values, but you don't know it it's the pot or the converters).
Let's hope that our 2 PCB sets are both 100% now and "all" we have to do is fix the controls themselves. They may require new pots, new springs etc.
I really can't wait to play this beast a bit seriously for the first time. The one I played at Funspot had some control issues too so it didn't even provide the full experience and I still loved it.
By the way Polder, did you check the Amps this baby draws ? 645 Watts maximum !!!! Damn....that's three times that of my SW cockpit !!!
-
Wohoooooo, great to see it is working. ;D
I never played this game and it looks like a great one. ;)
-
Sorry not really good with watts amps and stuff
645 watts
Is round 3 amps I believe that’s not much ;)
Outrunners use max 6 amps
And I belief that afterburner the big one uses 8 amps max
Welkom to the world of the real games
Some time back I had a flashing light (stroboscopic lamp)
That uses 16 amps :o max power so I’m used to big power consumption
-
Wahahaha, yes for you it must be one of the more economic machines you have. For me it's definitely the most power hungry one.
Remember this is also a max. The must power consuming is the motor for the force feedback of course and only on max resistance it will reach 645 Watts.... :)
-
YES YES YES !!!!FREAKING AWESOME !!!!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: to Jope for selling these !!!!!!
Wonderful!
You're very welcome. :-)
-
Man, sometimes I wonder how it is that we seem to keep finding the right parts at the right moment (for the right price too usually ;)). Karma ? Arcade-gods smiling at us ?
Short quick update:
We have 2 working monitor chassis !!! Yeah !
Bart, yours is producing the best picture so far, probably a fresh HV ;) (Not really, mine pushes out 25 kV just as happily.
I have seen that I did make one mistake now. I should have replaced ALL the pots. The color adjusting pots work but are wacky.
They really need replacing too.
Another thing is that I keep having some flickering in the screen on both chassis which I can't explain.
All in all I'm not too happy about how the tube looks. It seems to be pretty tired so I'm quickly (before it gets dark) going to hook it up to my rejuvenator to see how the guns are really....wow first real use :)
Glad that it's a nice and wind-still day ;)
-
@ Etienne don’t know how much stickers you’re going to print I’m also interested in a few
Seeing that the center cone from the wheel is available somewhere, mine is missing now.
I am following this thread with great interest, so i figured by myself that you needed them also, so i did already think of you and planned to make some extra for yours ;)
The pots are Made in Costa Rica.....man I see all kind of unexpected exotic places where electronics are manufactured since I started ordering from RS....
Intel also has a plant in Costa rica where they make processors, I saw it in reality, its close to my wife's parents house ;D
Another thing is that I keep having some flickering in the screen on both chassis which I can't explain.
Grounding / shielding problem maybe ?
I remember the "FAN Isue" on the Zaccs..
Great that the progress is going in the good direction!
(i love it when a plan comes together..)
(http://www.ateamfans.nl/images/hannibal%20begin.jpg)
-
Yeah as long as we keep making progress :)
Some pics from this afternoon. I'm telling you, a SW cockpit is a feather-weight compared to this:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7644/web.jpg?ver=13265640270001)
First I had to install the game PCB set back and of course the first chassis. After power up there were no explosions are other scary things but I had a completely dark screen. Did have neck-glow though so I turned up the Screen pot and got a grayish screen that was completely out of sync. Turning the V-hold and H-hold pots gained a stable picture ! Nice new pots, silky smooth ;) However the picture quality was still far from what it should be. Especially the colors are simply not as bright as should.
Tried fiddling with the Screen and black-level pots but definitely not satisfactory.
Even turning up the color guns didn't really help and pots showed poor contacts (sigh).
So...I suspected the tube to be in less than brilliant condition....
So the next step was hooking up the Müter rejuvenator for the very first time with a serious job.
Thanks to the table (which is searchable electronically, hurray !!) I quickly found I need adapter 808 for this tube and luckily I have it :)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7645/web.jpg?ver=13265640360001)
I don't remember how to operate it completely anymore but I know how to let it test the guns...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7646/web.jpg?ver=13265640180001)
And the results are pretty clear:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7643/web.jpg?ver=13265640430001)
Only the red gun is still in the "Good" zone. the others are in the "grey" zone which is more or less what I was thinking, weak but not dead....
So....I wil have a go at rejuving it tomorrow. It started to be pretty cold and I wanted to get everything inside before it got damp.
Also....I need to read the manual again before I screw up a very rare med-res tube! And I want to take my time to do it and not rush things....way too precious.
Apart from that I will be ordering all the remaining pots from RS online....even though they measured pretty good, in reality they definitely have seen better days. I hope they have the correct values....
-
Oh and I did of course try to play some games. The first thing that is totally obvious is that my steering wheel pot (or A/D converter, let's hope not !) are not working properly.
Also I can't get the shifter to work right because it wants it to be set in Reverse while doing calibration, but the reverse is mechanically blocked on mine (this is factory setting).
So, I can only select Automatic for now and I get nowhere because of the steering problem...
More tomorrow...
-
Interesting to see the rejuvinator
I don't really understand it completely, but they did printed the correct word on the meter
It looks like this gun is in the "this gun is a bit f#cked up" zone ;D
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hbrejuv.jpg)
-
Really interesting in following this André!! good job so fare :spaceace: :spaceace:
-
Mmmm, been looking for some info on the steering pot and I stumbled on this:
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=65895&highlight=drivin%27+pot
Post #6 may well solve my issue without having to buy a new one :)
(Quote for reference:
Now if your steering works but wont calibrate with a message saying value too great or something like that.. remove pot, turn steering full left. Turn pot full left. Turn pot back to right just untill it seats into steering shaftm that should take car eof that. Mine had a new pot wired properly but re-clocking the pot is what ended up fixing it.)
-
is this enough practice material for 2 cockpits ? ;)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hdwheel.jpg)
-
Yeah....barely ;)
-
I decided that it would be better to get the tube out of the cab to do the rejuvenating AND the further adjustments of both chassis.
Normally it is already very hard to adjust a monitor in a cab (using a mirror) but in this case the huge canopy (which also needs to be shifted back to be able to reach the chassis) makes it even worse. I want to see the screen directly for perfect adjustment.
Also I want to do the (further) measuring and rejevunation of the tube at room temperature to rule out any temp influence...
Still waiting for some pots for the neckboards fromRS online, another brilliant DHL delivery....
Naturally I am very interested in the condition of the other tube.............
-
.....and thus Polder visited me today with his tube !
Man those 25"es are heavy beasts.
Since my wife and kid are away today I have no problems setting up workshop :)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7654/web.jpg?ver=13271673880001)
Operating the rejuvenator is not really but a bit complicated, at least you closely have to follow each step. Sometimes the manual is not very clear or instead TOO clear maybe...but we manage.
The thing I hadn't done before was setting up the cut-off correctly before measuring my tube.
So, this time I closely followed the manual (hence iPad) step by step.
Although the primary steps made it show somewhat better results, I still wasn't very happy about them:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7655/web.jpg?ver=13271674090001)
So I decided to rejuvenate the guns on setting "Clean" (which means the lowest current used, and let's say the "softest" setting.
We saw some nice little fireworks in the neck of the tube (like expected & intended for the Green & Blue tube. The Red one (which was the best to start with) didn't show much fireworks at all.
Regretfully I didn't take a pic after the rejuvenating but the Green & Blue guns had jumped from 0,5 mA to around 1,0 mA !!!!!
The Red gun shows about the same results, so strangely it's now the "weakest" one of the three but still good enough...
Of course we also checked Bart's tube and decided we shouldn't really mess with it. The values were not ideal but definitely in the "good" area.
Of course it was time to check the result:
So we "installed" Bart's game PCB set, an iso-transformer and a switcher for the PCB set and......
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7657/web.jpg?ver=13271674190001)
We have a very bright and clean picture !!!!!!
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7656/web.jpg?ver=13271673990001)
(Small dark band in the top is caused by the camera)
It is a difference between night and day seriously !!! Woo-hoo, my first successful rejuvenation. Buying the Muter definitely paid off now, impossible to find a med-res 25" tube today (well almost).
We do still have some minor issues, there's still some flickering but I'm pretty convinced that the bad neck-board pot meters are the cause for this (still waiting for delivery of the new one's). Also it's almost impossible to set-up the colors correctly with these pots as they developed a "sweet spot" where they work worst, but are supposed to be set to....
Also there is some edge converging to do later.
I'll post some video a bit later...
-
fabulous news, andré! i love that setup in your LIVING ROOM :D
-
That it totally amazing!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
-
Yeah ! It's a shame we didn't take a "before" pic of the screen....
Here's the promised video. First parts shows the rejuvenation in progress (some nice fireworks in the tube :P)
http://youtu.be/9JxFi0LtOMI
BE SURE TO SWITCH TO 1080p !!!
In the beginning you see the normal neck glow you get when the rejuvenator is connected and powered up (heating it up). Somewhat later you see the small white flashes of the rejuvenation going on...
There's still color adjusting to be done, but we'll wait for the new pots because the old one's are so poor it was hard to set it a little bit nice...this was about the best....
OK, rejuvenating service now available, 25 euro's per tube (at own risk) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
-
OK, rejuvenating service now available, 25 euro's per tube (at own risk) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
aaarh - you Dutch people have to make money of everything! ;)
-
Great to see some sparks that burn the guns clean!
great music also by the way :spaceace:
-
OK, rejuvenating service now available, 25 euro's per tube (at own risk) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
aaarh - you Dutch people have to make money of everything! ;)
Hey gotta make up for the Euro crisis somehow ;););)
-
Monitor looks pretty damn fresh again!
-
Is your cabinet having some colorfading on the right side, or did there something go wrong with scanning ?
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hd/hdrear.jpg)
Anyway, colors we can adjust, so its good enough to vectorise ;)
EDIT:
looking at the scan of the licence plate, there is nothing wong with the cab, its the right scan that did a discoloration.
well.. , i only need the left part, and the licence plate, the right part is an exact mirrored image from the left side 8)
And they are highres available here ;)
-
I don't know if it would help, but I have an actual California license plate in a box somewhere if a hires scan of the top would help. It might be somewhat reflective though! :lol:
-
hehe, cool idea, but no need, the scan is more than sufficient to work with ;)
-
Nice job, that rejuvenator make monitors like new. :D
-
I don't know if it would help, but I have an actual California license plate in a box somewhere if a hires scan of the top would help. It might be somewhat reflective though! :lol:
Hah, that gave me a nice idea, we could have the license plates printed on plastic ;)
Seriously...here some pics of sunday morning:
Etienne preparing while "little helper" is making a test drive (bit hard without monitor but kids often don't really mind ;)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7659/web.jpg?ver=13273550690001)
Etienne scanning my hi-tech heating..... ;)
Due to temperature differences there was some moist built up within the scanner and Etienne tries to get it out...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7660/web.jpg?ver=13273550600001)
Hard to keep the scanner against the artwork....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7662/web.jpg?ver=13273551050001)
So (once again) the rejuvenator proves to be handy, this time in supporting the scanner perfectly still ;D ;D
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7663/web.jpg?ver=13273550980001)
Etienne, the artwork is definitely discolored, and not in an even way. The left side of the cab still looks best, in fact I think the left side art is about as good as it was original. You can see the canopy discolored more than the artwork:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7664/web.jpg?ver=13273550760001)
The right side has seen more sunlight I guess because the artwork there does show discoloring.
Of course red is always the worst color for loosing color....
And of course thanks for all your help !!!!
-
Hehehe, Etienne's mobile scanning service rules! :D
Can't wait for the results.
-
hehehe, it was fun haha
well, it was my pleasure, and i have started the process of vectoring by searching the font (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2181.msg45115#msg45115) of the licence plate ;)
Also little helper enjoyed the trip, and Mario Kart on the Wii ;D
looking again at the first pic, that video pinball really screams for some TLC :lol:
Hehehe, Etienne's mobile scanning service rules! :D
Can't wait for the results.
Thanks, the results need to be good since its part of a bigger plan, but i think that is a story for later ;)
-
looking again at the first pic, that video pinball really screams for some TLC :lol:
Yeah, for a long time it was hiding behind a number of monitor boxes so it wasn't visible but of course I had to rearrange the machines to get the HD to fit in....
It is a sore sight, if I had space elsewhere I'd store it there but...alas.
At least I will do some dusting and heck, it's about time I try and power it up to see what happens ;)
-
love the setup, the documentation and the dedication - this forum really IS the best!
-
love the setup, the documentation and the dedication - this forum really IS the best!
+1 !
-
looking again at the first pic, that video pinball really screams for some TLC :lol:
Yeah, for a long time it was hiding behind a number of monitor boxes so it wasn't visible but of course I had to rearrange the machines to get the HD to fit in....
It is a sore sight, if I had space elsewhere I'd store it there but...alas.
At least I will do some dusting and heck, it's about time I try and power it up to see what happens ;)
Looking forward to that as well, 1 in a million it works!!, never the less, its a great gab!!
-
OK, rejuvenating service now available, 25 euro's per tube (at own risk) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
aaarh - you Dutch people have to make money of everything! ;)
Whaha, read this manual, page 19:
http://andysarcade.de/data/electronics/testing/mueter/mueter_bmr_2005.pdf
and you will see what Muter advices to ask for rejuvenating a color tube (3 guns): 300 Deutsch Mark, which is about 150 Euro without inflation ;);););)
So dont you complain my friend Im extremely cheap ;);) ;D ;D
-
Did you print out that garanty card on page 57 and added it to the tube ? ;) ;D
-
No, because I know the customer is very critical ;);)
In fact, Im a bit worried about the aquadag on this tube....part of it (see pic) was literarly blown off by a bit of wind when we moved it from the gameroom to the house....
Its just a small part so Im not too worried about that, but the condition of the rest worries me....
About rejuvenators: The Muter 95 and 2005 do a "computerized" regeneration of the guns, which is really nice because I am still a bit uncertain when to stop the process....
I have been looking at youtube videos about the Sencore CR7000 and that one seems to be the Rolls Royce of rejuventors...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW_st4hjoQg&sns=em
Pretty fool proof.
-
You can use the Graphit Spray from Kontakt Chemie to repair your aquadag ... remove the tube, then just remove the old/loose aquadag stuff, clean/degrease the surface of the tube where the aquadag shall go to, cover what needs no aquadag and then spray.
-
Excellent tip, thanks Andreas ! Did you do that for an entire tube ?
I would love to fully clean the tube and make a total new layer, the dust on it now is ubelievable...
-
This is the stuff that Andreas means:
(http://www.gzz.pl/v2/images/24653_5632_4db6deb2bcbbe.jpg)
http://www.crcind.com/csp/web/ProdDisp.csp?lng=3&idx=1582081&country=NL&product=GRAPHIT%2033&brand=KOC&CSPCHD=00300001000041gb1lRB0000007LkAthvvgfRNM_IS1I27Fg--
The Technical data sheet indeed specifically mentions the application for CRT's (although they misspelled it: cathode raG tubes...nice one :)):
http://www.crcind.com/wwwcrc/tds/TKC3%20GRAPHIT33.PDF
Now, to prove once again that we in The Netherlands always get screwed regarding prices. Here a price I find in Germany:
€8,65 at http://www.watterott.com/en/Kontakt-Graphit-33-200ml
Cheapest price I found here:
€12,99 at http://www2.conrad.nl/goto.php?artikel=045750
Of course, ordering from Germany is not interesting because of shipping costs and I know it's only a couple of Euro's (although it is still about a difference of 50% !!!!), but this is just another indication that everything is overpriced in this country....
Anyway, gonna get me a tube. I find it interesting that after polishing it will have an even better electric conductivity, not sure if that's really needed.
I had some time to finally pick up the pots for the neck boards today and installed them. They were smaller than I had thought and it was a bit hard to solder them correctly because the leads are a bit short for the existing holes, but it worked out.
Since I was now soldering on the neck board anyway, I redid all the other solderings as well, some really needed it (like the one's of the largest resistors).
Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow evening to test everything again...
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7666/web.jpg?ver=13275313210001)
-
@Level42
A friend of mine did some years ago - the whole 19" tube of an Asteroids ...
-
@Level42
A friend of mine did some years ago - the whole 19" tube of an Asteroids ...
and is that still working now ?
that is the question ;D
-
Very likely. There is no doubt this stuff is useable for this goal, actually its the first application mentioned.
Another use for this is repairing Remote controls by creating a conductive layer on the underside of the buttons and fixing old computer keyboards. (Google around)
I will try clean the tube and see what happens. I can always do a full respray with this. From what I've read normally it should be washeable and still stay on, but in this case it doesnt really look like it...
-
Yeah, i know what you mean, Ully's canyon bomber tube is still in my little trailer waiting to go to the dumpster, and the aquadag is completely rained off ;D
-
Maybe we should make a statue out of it, in honor of the CRT, which has changed the world as we know it.... ;D
Seriously, could you make a picture of that back side, I'd like to see how that looks without the dag....
-
Sure, no problem
Will do tonight after work
-
i did not take the pic yet :oops:
it was rainy and dark when i got home yesterday, and i had some alu sheets in my hands to cut :D
i want to take you to another thread for updates on the art, then this topic will not have fragments of that in between posts :P
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3318.0 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3318.0)
-
i did not take the pic yet :oops:
it was rainy and dark when i got home yesterday, and i had some alu sheets in my hands to cut :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6B92nPs8lg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No worries man, there's no rush at all...
-
Maybe we should make a statue out of it, in honor of the CRT, which has changed the world as we know it.... ;D
Seriously, could you make a picture of that back side, I'd like to see how that looks without the dag....
Both tasks executed ;D
aquadag washed away by rain:
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/canyonbomber/doei-aquadag1.jpg)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/canyonbomber/doei-aquadag2.jpg)
And a statue to honor the CRT :D
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/canyonbomber/crtart1.jpg)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/canyonbomber/crtart2.jpg)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/canyonbomber/crtart3.jpg)
If you like to buy this fine piece of art, visit marktplaats ;D
http://link.marktplaats.nl/525354919 (http://link.marktplaats.nl/525354919)
-
If you like to buy this fine piece of art, visit marktplaats ;D
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-
Wahahahaaaaaahahahahaaa !!!!!!
Brilliant !!!
And yes, that looks like a very much gone dag...
-
If you like to buy this fine piece of art, visit marktplaats ;D
http://link.marktplaats.nl/525354919 (http://link.marktplaats.nl/525354919)
OMG !!! :D :D ;D ;D
-
Lol, you already have bids on it, some dutch guy from Ridderkerk offered 1 eur. ;D
-
;D ;D ;D ;D
lets keep a screenshot before the add expires :D
-
Damn ! I've been overbid !! O no ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
O wel, guess I'll just have to accept my loss.....
Anyway, back to business gentlemen (and the occasional lady):
After having installed the pots on the neck board it was time to finish the monitor !
I wasn't completely satisfied with the red gun's results last time I hooked up the rejuvenator so I hooked it up again and followed all the steps again to first set up the cut-off and then measure the guns to double check. Turns out the red gun was pretty much behind the other two now, do I decided to give that a "clean" as well. Well, here is the result before any rejuving:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7655/web.jpg?ver=13271674090001)
and after:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7673/web.jpg?ver=13277812080001)
Yes.....nice ! :)
After that I first did some cleaning, also to check the condition of the dag. Turns out that only that part that came loose is damaged. I carefully cleaned the backside of the CRT with a moist sponge. The rest of the dag is well in tact and I'm pretty sure that missing such a small part is not a problem so I'll keep it like that.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7674/web.jpg?ver=13277812670001)
Was one of the dirtiest monitors I've seen so far but turned out pretty nice looking from the back...
Close-up of the missing part:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7675/web.jpg?ver=13277812740001)
After some dry time it was time to power it up to do the final setting up of the pots...
After some first adjusting I had a pretty good picture:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7677/web.jpg?ver=13277812820001)
However I still see some "jittering" in the picture that definitely is not normal. So I start to look for a cause. I had resoldered everything on the neck board already but still I checked every part again (wiggle-wiggle) and the big resistor on the side was loose. Turned out the island had come loose a bit so had to use a wire to fix it properly. Much to my regret it had 0 result on the picture.
Next I started tapping around on the chassis with the back of an isolated (rubbery-grip) screwdriver. I noticed some extra lines happening while tapping the HOT on the right side and on the left side of the HVT. Suddenly I had another problem: the picture went pretty dim on the left while still OK on the right side... I remembered seeing that problem described in Randy Fromm's K4900 flow chart (the 5515 is largely the same as a 4900) and the flow chart pointed to replace C702. Turned out the ting was loose on one soldering !
The leg was very short though so I replaced the cap.
I also reflowed the connector to the yoke since it showed some moving pins when wiggling it and reflowed the HVT solderings and those of the HOT.
Another power up and the problem of the dark left side was gone and the overall picture was a lot better now. However I still see the flickering going on but I noticed that it actually depended on the activity of the game (/PCB).
I mean, when a steady picture was up (like a test screen) there was no flickering at all !
Also when in the attract mode when there is the almost steady map of the track there was no flickering. As soon as the Hard Drivin' logo starts "zooming in" on the top of the screen the flickering starts again. This repeated every time. Also when the car is doing a demo run around the track there is this flickering.
I was suspecting either that the PCB was somehow interfering or maybe that the test switching PSU was having trouble delivering the required current.... I put my DVM over the +5V output in AC mode (yes AC) and I could see that the ripple voltage increased in times when there was flicker. Of course the PCB set is doing it's most work (calculations) when things move on the screen SO my conclusion it is not unlikey the PSU is not keeping up....
So, I figured to leave the problem for now.
I did the best color matching (I referenced to a couple of youtube videos) I could and I am really pretty happy with the results. Yes, you can clearly see that this monitor is 22 years old and that it has been running a lot of hours. It only reminded me how insane lucky I am with the condition of my SW monitor....
If I am extremely critical there are some slight convergence errors in the corners, but they are definitely within spec of production tolerances plus, on full-screen games like this it is barely visible.
So, it is ready to go back into the cockpit !!! Yeah !!
Next will have to be removing the CP to see if I can fix the pot meter problem so we can actually try to do a real race !!
-
Uploaging video now....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gP__6uvLA&feature=youtu.be
-
that looks AWESOME, andré! interesting write-up as well, nicely documented (as always)!
-
Thanks Ully ! Well, it's not my best looking monitor but it will suffice....
Mmmm, it suddenly occurred to me that I could disconnect the sound board (interconnect power cable to the main PCB board and the flat-cable) to lower the required power. And yes it worked !!! The jittering had reduced to about 10% of that I had earlier ! I can also hear some jittery sound in the PSU exactly ad the moments that it jitters on the screen. So the switcher (sorry Robin) seems to have some bad caps or simply can't handle the power.
I reconnected the soundboard and sure enough it was back to 100%.
So I hope to put the monitor and PCB back in the cab tomorrow and we'll see what happens.
-
One question guys, do any of you have a bad tube where there is still the plastic "end cap" on ?
I managed (despite being really careful) to break the one on mine (first time I removed the neck-board, Bart was witness) and it scared the shit out of me because I feared I had broken the glass, which didn't happen obviously....
Anyway, now weight of the neck board is fully hanging on the pins of the CRT and I really don't like that so if someone can get it off a "goner" CRT I would be grateful !
(here's a reference pic, I mean the green thing. Note that this is not the HD monitor !)
(http://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4490&d=1291187307)
It needs to be a 10 pin one...
-
I'm 99% sure I have more spares from these, let me check it tomorrow (today) morning. ;)
-
Yeah, good plan! you dont want it to end up like the canyon bomber..
(which plastic was not good anymore ;D )
-
I guess it was also too few pins since it was a BW tube...
...been thinking and I might still have one myself, Ill check and report back.
-
Damn should be time I start on mine. :?
Your monitor came out nice looks much better now good that the rest of the dag is oke
-
I still have the neck board pots for you. They are pretty small and you'll need to put the neck board towards you and use a mirror to adjust them since you can't really turn them by hand, you need a small screwdriver or better a plastic adjusting tool.
They work but are not ideal. On the other hand, you set it up only one time and probably never touch it again....
Not sure if I will be in the area coming week, I'll give you call if I am. Maybe I could drop it of at your work ? The 20 minute drive along the scenic polder dike is nice but something I prefer not to do in "spitsuur"... ;)
-
;)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--0bXSWS-vwU/TyViSfkBZaI/AAAAAAAAFRM/fF0i4IG-9Mo/s912/Tube%2520cup%2520001.jpg)
-
Most excellent Béla !! I threw away the tube I remember it was on, and if you have it "extra" I would love to receive that one :)
Well.....it's dark now and it's getting colder and colder. I finished up the monitor and even managed to get it back in the cab. Bart had somehow managed to lift it out of it without removing the back panel (as the manual says you should :shock: and even all that without breaking the neck ;) After a couple of tries I called him to ask how he managed to do that and then indeed it worked out (although it sure wasn't easy). I just didn't want to have to remove the back panel. Turns out that 4 of the bolts have been replaced with a regular bolt & nut, and they were TIGHT !
Anyway, it was back in there, PCB set back in and power up. It looks really MUCH MUCH better than it was. Also, as I expected all the jittering was gone so it was indeed the PSU. The picture is really bright now and totally workable.
But since this project always seems to be 2 steps forward, 1 step back there of course had to be one step back and it turned out that I don't have any sound anymore. The test screen gives "Sound board timed out". I checked the power- and flat cable but they are firmly in place....no idea what this is now and I was done with it for today....so rolled the cab back in the game room (yes this is not ideal, I have to drag it out and in to work on it every time).
Oh well....we'll see about this problem later.....
-
Keep the good work up André! :spaceace:
-
Thinking about this for the top part.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLsmPbPyE00&feature=youtube_gdata_player
it looks easy !
...and I think I also already found the material....
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Car-Wrapping-Folie-Rot-152x100cm-ORACAL-970-/110671889270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item19c48f0376#ht_1203wt_887
...unless we can find a professional spray painter for cheap....
-
...and if I ever aquire a Race Drivin' pcb set I can always change from red to yellow !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TepwpZa2FNw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
-
Cool, i have seen that before in a documentary, just did not think of it for your HD
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/medialink/2608-wrapping-your-car-video.htm (http://videos.howstuffworks.com/medialink/2608-wrapping-your-car-video.htm)
excellent idea !
-
Will have to see how many rolls I would need. Of course it will at least need black and red.
Also the entire cab is 1.60 meter in length at the base. The top plastic is a bit shorter though but I doubt the 1.52 m length of the roll would be enough....will have to measure.
If it boils down to 4 of these rolls it would still be pretty expensive....
-
Just measured....1,56 required, and that's excluding the 4 cm. overlap needed .....so no dice with the standard size.
Asked if they also can do longer pieces....
-
Good you god the monitor back in :)
It’s nice workout when pull it out and put it back in 10 times a day ;)
Looks interesting and not to expensive, but I think I prefer painting
I will ask the local painter what it will cost to paint , when I’m back from holiday 8)
-
Good, we can compare it then. I bet it will be of benefit that we can do two sets because the price of spray painting is usually mostly set-up costs.....Im in no rush though.... first see if I get everything 100% working, but I know your in the some boat :)
-
Isn’t a high-end paint shop there located in middle of the town in a old farm
So I hope its not to expensive .
They sand blasted and powder coated my thunder blade frame (don’t remember what the price was)
and sometimes they do paint jobs for my work nice guys.
Or I setup my own paint corner ;)
-
Sounds exactly like the right place for a job like this :)
-
Found my first use for the bottle of Un-Du that Chris got for me:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7694/web.jpg?ver=13285235240001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101023/DSCF7696/web.jpg?ver=13285235300001)
It works great ! took just a drop or two....to get everything off.
I couldn't manage to get it off intact though although I tried. However I think this is due to the thick vinyl material and the small size...
It took a couple more drops (and a screwdriver) to get all the residue off.
The stuff smells very strongly better not inhale it !!
THis stuff gives me some hope of getting of the unbelievably tightly stuck Ms.Pac CPO rests....
-
Thanks to Dan and this thread http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=239378&highlight=hard+drivin on klov I found that I can buy the correct steering pot from RS online:
http://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/trimmers-potentiometer-rheostat/4607526/
Do not order this one: http://nl.rs-online.com/web/p/trimmers-potentiometer-rheostat/4867093/
because although it's the same pot, it has a metric shaft.
-
....and suddenly you have 0 Hard Drivin's......
Agreed to sell it to Polderarcade who will also be picking up my Video Pinball.
I am not feeling very happy about it though, I mean, I would have loved to finish this one, but it is just a bridge too far in my gameroom..... I can only work on it during dry weather days because I have to move it out of the gameroom everytime.
I just had to face that this was going to take ages to finish that way and I had to take a hard decision.
My son doesn't know yet................he's not going to be happy when I tell him.........
Now......I am looking for a Crazy Taxi upright with seat to replace it. Racing games are really the weak spot in my collecting skills. This is the THIRD racing machine to leave..... :-\ :-\ :-\
-
Just put in a Outrun, and you dont have to let it go anymore ;)
No racing game beats Outrun IYAM ::)
Looks i can scrap this from the vectorque then ?
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3318.0
-
Never mind André, cabs come, cabs go!:)
I'm sure Mark will also enjoy Crazy Taxi or any driving games you buy. ;)
-
really sad to see this go from you, because you were so enthusiastic about it, but i can understand your reasoning behinf it. furthermore, it's in good hands with bart and you can go over and play it if you have the urge to do so. good luck on finding a crazy taxi, although i have to agree with etienne: outrun is THE racing game to get (says the guy who already had an outrun mini and an outrun upright and sold both of them :D)!
-
I agree that Outrun would be my ultimate racer, but I'd have the same problem with my two previous race cabs: I don't think playing racing games while standing give the real experience. Especially with the Power Drift I had that feeling because I used to play the full motion sit-down version, which made it a brilliant game. The upright didn't give half the feeling of it for me. Outrun would be exactly the same. Maybe we were spoiled here in Holland but all those games always seemed to be the full size motion versions. In fact, I never even -knew- there were upright versions of Outrun and Power Drift untill I started collecting....
Crazy Taxi is also an upright but it has (or can have) a seat attached to it which is just enough to give you more of a sit down game feel. I've played it like that in an arcade on Lanzarote and that worked for me.
The other benefit of CT is that you can play various racing games on the same hardware, which is of course very cool. Also, I want a machine that is working right away. Need and want to spend time on finishing my Ms.Pac, MB/DK and LL (coin door), fix some vector monitors and of course there is a Q*bert begging for restoration....
I am indeed happy that its going to Polderarcade, that way it won't be too far out for me :) and I hope he can make one great HD out of both machines. It's also kinda funny the machine is returning to where it had been stored for a while already.....
-
I am still upset from selling my one. I know how you feel Andre. I asked the buyer that if they ever consider to sell it again maybe they could contact you to give the offer of buying it back prior to putting it on sale.
That's what I did - made me feel a little better.
-
I agree that Outrun would be my ultimate racer, but I'd have the same problem with my two previous race cabs: I don't think playing racing games while standing give the real experience. Especially with the Power Drift I had that feeling because I used to play the full motion sit-down version, which made it a brilliant game. The upright didn't give half the feeling of it for me. Outrun would be exactly the same. Maybe we were spoiled here in Holland but all those games always seemed to be the full size motion versions. In fact, I never even -knew- there were upright versions of Outrun and Power Drift untill I started collecting....
Did i say upright ? ;) ;D ;D
I only said Outrun, and with outrun i mean outrun DLX ofcourse :P
ah wait.. space, i get it.. just remove the SW it will give you alot of space :D ;D ;D
-
Here is one for 2500 gbp :lol:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEGA-OUTRUN-DELUXE-ARCADE-GAME-/251153669961?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_MJ&hash=item3a79ecdf49
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/SEGA-OUTRUN-DELUXE-ARCADE-GAME-/00/s/ODE2WDYxMg==/$(KGrHqZ,!rgFBGhULrO7BQWbFpv)fg~~60_12.JPG)
-
Sad to see this go from your collection too because you went far in the restoration/finding parts process.
But as said, Poldercade is not far and he'll take good care of it.
Not sure this helps a lot but:
There was that Outrun DLX with the huge smiling sun sticker for sale (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3111.0) in a country quite far away (Poland).
…and JiggyMF was selling a Crazy Taxy 5 here (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=3491.0) months ago
Last news from April was that it was reserved but it's a lead worth trying.
-
Yup, I noticed that CT too but it is already sold regretfully, I asked....
and according to this: the Outrun Deluxe is also already sold....:(
-
Bye bye Hard Drivin'....farewell.......it wasn't meant to be I guess.... :'( :'(
Still happy it's going not too far away and to a good home and I'm sure I will play it one time in the future ;D ;D ;D
-
What have you scanned? Only the "licence plate" or also the sidearts?
I started the other days to clean my HD and I think I will need to replace a side as it's water damaged :(
TIA ANY
-
Only the license plate area. Etienne has the files...
-
Thanks mate, hope to "find" them on Klov :P
My HD right now is empty only some bots are still on the wood
I will repaint all the metal parts, while I decide if I need to replace the side or not
Thanks
-
I have some highres files of the sideart and the dashboard:
file 01.jpg = 10576x6301 (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hd/1.jpg)
file 02.jpg = 18299x5460 (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hd/2.jpg)
file 03.jpg = 18299x5460 (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/hd/3.jpg)
Goodluck with them ;)
-
Thanks guys!!!
will open a new 3D soon with some pics :)