Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: zapposh on September 13, 2011, 03:15:00 PM

Title: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 13, 2011, 03:15:00 PM
So, at last it happened! I am now a proud dad, of a little baby. Baby pacman.

First roadtrip (through amazing storms and sleet for those who heard about the amazing weather in Germany last Sunday), first arcade machine.

Anyway, to make a long story short and all the other news following up in the next posts, here is the situation:
-200W stepdownconverter between the cab and my wall socket. Switch on: bang, there goes the fuse!

Ok, so you've all gone through that 1000 times. Not me. In a nutshell, amongst the many many reasons this can obviously come from, what is the most common reason for this?

Two words about the cab: bought NOT working, but at least should be able to be powered on.
Solenoid board, power board and the MPU boards should be working. Same goes for most of the bulbs, coils and other pinball parts.
Not working should be the Vidiot board (apparently 2 flashes only), and the monitor does not switch on.

Fact is I cannot even get that far to test anything.
I think this first challenge is going to be a hard one, but a nice one to learn a lot, with a machine I absolutely fell in love with, but I sure will need some help from you guys.
SOS
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 13, 2011, 03:26:35 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 13, 2011, 03:28:43 PM
first find the cause of the blown fuse, many times this indicates a short somewhere.

the fuse that blew, is it in the cab, or in your stepdown converter ?
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 13, 2011, 03:32:45 PM
The fuse blows in the converter.

By the way, how do I insert pics into the posts?
I use the img tag, with the inserted link to my flickr image, but it does not work.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 13, 2011, 03:34:50 PM
[img ][ /img]

I dont see a link in between this

it should look like this :

[img ]http://www.picturesource.pic/pic.jpg[ /img]

(note that i did put a space in the code because if i dont do that the code is not visible..
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 13, 2011, 04:09:41 PM
Image test

(http://flic.kr/p/amVxLy)

How on earth will he find the short in the circuit if he can't even upload a pic?  ::)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: 2-mad on September 13, 2011, 04:14:40 PM
you are using flickr .. thats not the best pic-source to embed pictures here ..
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 13, 2011, 04:19:20 PM
Image test

(http://flic.kr/p/amVxLy)

How on earth will he find the short in the circuit if he can't even upload a pic?  ::)

you put in the wrong link....  ;D

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6143988636_bf7b3c6f63_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 14, 2011, 07:56:47 AM
Thanks Etienne! :-)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 16, 2011, 08:15:08 PM
Ok, found the short. It's coming from the monitor.
Work on all the rest is progressing well, will need to make a post on it.

Now, signs like "HIGH VOLTAGE" scare me to death. On the power plate here, basically, what am I allowed to touch, and what should I avoid at all costs?
Does current stay in the transformer when the cab is unplugged?

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6153016019_8decb1ed4a_b.jpg)

The sticker says one can just change the current on the trafo. I don't have any instructions in the "black box" like written. Anyone has ever switched current on one of these?

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6195/6153582946_669b18540a_b.jpg)

Cheers
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 16, 2011, 08:20:46 PM
Does current stay in the transformer when the cab is unplugged?

no worries at the transformer when the cab is disconnected

Quote
The sticker says one can just change the current on the trafo. I don't have any instructions in the "black box" like written. Anyone has ever switched current on one of these?

there is a "jumper cable block" (that orange bunch of wires next to the fuse) if you are lucky, the other that you need for 220 volts is there too
let me lookup the topic that has something simular
be right back..

EDIT:

I am back...

in this topic from Ully (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=637.msg5440#msg5440) you will see the "jumper" and it looks like this:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3329135828_b7f42db6b8.jpg)

In that topic also the manual mentions something about the fuse that you need to change too, so maybe thats a good idea to look into as well.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: DarthNuno on September 16, 2011, 08:52:59 PM
So, at last it happened! I am now a proud dad, of a little baby...

Congratulation... it's the best moment in live and ...

... Baby pacman.

...ah? OK! Just a cab  ::) ...Congratulation anyway  ;D

OK the first rule is ...  :arrow: pictures please  ::)  Just provide your flickr link, no problemo of course.

Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: level42 on September 16, 2011, 09:27:35 PM
Hah, yeah I thought we had another real baby in "the family" too ;)

Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 16, 2011, 10:32:06 PM
So, at last it happened! I am now a proud dad, of a little baby...

Congratulation... it's the best moment in live and ...

... Baby pacman.

...ah? OK! Just a cab  ::) ...Congratulation anyway  ;D

OK the first rule is ...  :arrow: pictures please  ::)  Just provide your flickr link, no problemo of course.



Thanks, I am a "real" daddy too. :-)

Sure for the flickr link. It does not explain how I'm doing it, but shows a little progress. Just ignore numerous cables and board shots. They are for me for reference for rebuilding when I forget. ;-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55408069@N04/sets/72157627661296918/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/55408069@N04/sets/72157627661296918/)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 16, 2011, 10:34:17 PM
Does current stay in the transformer when the cab is unplugged?

no worries at the transformer when the cab is disconnected

Quote
The sticker says one can just change the current on the trafo. I don't have any instructions in the "black box" like written. Anyone has ever switched current on one of these?

there is a "jumper cable block" (that orange bunch of wires next to the fuse) if you are lucky, the other that you need for 220 volts is there too
let me lookup the topic that has something simular
be right back..

EDIT:

I am back...

in this topic from Ully (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=637.msg5440#msg5440) you will see the "jumper" and it looks like this:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3329135828_b7f42db6b8.jpg)

In that topic also the manual mentions something about the fuse that you need to change too, so maybe thats a good idea to look into as well.


Thanks Etienne for your valuable input! I will check in the morning if I have such a jumper. Like this I cannot see as the cable twists out of sight under the fuse bit, but now that I'm not scared anymore of the high voltage trafo I will unscrew it and look where the cables go.
If I don't write by tomorrow night, call an ambulance! :-)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 09:35:48 AM
Ok, so I studied Ully's post that Etienne brought to my attention about changing voltage. After that I found some additional info, so we're making progress.
Here a shot of the corresponding schematic. While not as simple as in the other case, where the jumper cable can simply be switched, this is not complicated either. The jumper need to be changed in the main molex connector to input 240V.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6168311643_6728af2208_b.jpg)

Here is the molex to be modified:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6168279099_be73a26a74_b.jpg)

I saw that to remove pins from recent molex plugs, there are sort of tiny little metal bits on the pins to press inwards, then the pins fall out. But here I cannot find such little metal strips, so I'm looking out how to remove the jumpers to adapt the to the schematic above. Brute force is not an option just yet. ;-)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 09:45:58 AM
I forgot about the post above.
I also have a 3 amp slow blow fuse in at the moment. Nowhere in the manual or schematics to the y mention changing it to a 1,5A slow blow fuse once I'm inputing 240V. Should I change it anyway, or leave it be, as they don't specify this change?

Then there is another issue, still about this whole power stuff:
The power cable the has the US plug and arrives at the power board is not only rotten, but broken open at where the back door closes (must have been caught in the door many times). So I'm going to change the wire.
Here is the shot of where it arrives:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6168809828_450ef11895_b.jpg)

Here it is cleaned up: (one of the only parts of the game I have not de-oxydated and polished)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6168280039_bd64642ab3_b.jpg)

And here the close-up.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/6168277849_20ea4d13ed_b.jpg)
What do I do with this lovely little red circle thingy (resistance?)? Leave it on, or get rid of it?

It says:V130l A10A



Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 10:00:48 AM
Leave it out, or replace with a varistor that can handle 240 Volts
this is for 130 volts, and will blow, like Ully's (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1843.msg37661#msg37661) ;D

I know there is a molex tool for extracting those pins.

When you modify your jumper, be sure to mark it as 230 Volts to avoid future confusion.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 10:04:13 AM
Ooops, ok, just read the post, thanks. :-)
Is it safe if I leave it out?
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 10:07:48 AM
I think it can left out.

passage from the same post as before (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1843.msg38015#msg38015)

Read the complete post for various reasons:

1. there is alot of info there
2. Its a wonderfull restauration of our famous restaurator Ully  :spaceace:

About your fuse, i think you will be fine to leave that as well
I mean if there is a major short, a 3 amp will blow also  ;D
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 10:47:24 AM
Two cups of coffee later...
Excellent post! Lots of useful info. Ok, I'll just leave out the varistor.

What about the part for removing 30 year old molex pins? Any "trick" for doing that? I would like to avoid cutting the wires and making new pins, as I would have to order all the stuff and that will set back planning by a couple of days...

Next question coming up...
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 10:52:32 AM
You can try to use the smallest screwdriver from this set for example to press the little hook inside and "wiggle" the pin out

(http://www.laroyale.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/h/o/horlogemaker-schroevendraaiers.JPG)

I have been succesfull with that on PC molex connectors like these:

(http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/15324/wm/pd944818.jpg)

Or if you have a piece of pipe that has the inner diameter of the pin, and outer diameter that fits inside the molex connector you can use that..
(thats basicly what a molex tool is  ;) )

(http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Molex/Web%20Photos/11-03-0002.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 11:08:07 AM
Faster than lightning answers. :-) Great. I'll give it a try with the tiny screwdriver.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 11:29:59 AM
Ok, my next point is rather more important, as it concerns gameplay, and I would like the game to play the way it way meant to initially.
It's about the angle of the flippers.

This is what my board looked like when I got it just over a week ago. The coils were blown, both of different powers (what were they thinking?), and the springs went to hell, so I have no reference here. Both angles are different on top of it:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6071/6146762706_0e6521143c_b.jpg)

What you often see on the internet are shots like this (this is NOT my table):
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2253/2127634890_9a370dc32f_b.jpg)
In this case the flippers match two metal bars that lead down to the chute, that are hidden by the covering plastics. With this setting I suppose it is very easy to aim for the side lanes and holes. The hard point is that you cannot "catch and control" a ball as the angle of the flipper does not go high enough.

Then there is an example here that I think makes sense, at least "visually":
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2060/2181049951_f96dbd0ba3_b.jpg)
The angle exactly fits the the angle of the plastics, which sort of looks cool and maybe was meant to be that way?

Shot of the same table, built in:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3304/3586920074_1e8d8b4045_b.jpg)
To me it looks good.

After completely stripping my table, sanding it down to the bone, renewing, sanding, polishing and de-oxydating every screw, part, fuse, resoldering cold solders and wiring on all bulbs, changing all coils & bulbs and rebuilding the flipper mechanics from scratch, I am now at this stage:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/6168982256_e59e686e44_b.jpg)
Looks veeeeeery differents from one week ago. :-)

By the way, of all methods I tried, rolls (soft and hard), sponges, pads and so on, my new very best friend for applying decals is a silicone cake/cream topping spatula, used for baking. It has exactly the right pressure, does not scratch, and is amazing for spreading out the decals and removing air bubbles.

Here you see the metal chute bars that some people adjust angle to that I mentioned above:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6168981656_edc14bfed4_b.jpg)

And here is the way I did it to match the angle of the plastics, that I just overlayed for taking the pic, they are not yet fitted:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6168445507_175aca4f14_b.jpg)

The worst thing is that when you watch youtube gameplay vids or other pics on the internet here and there, the is NO consistent angle!!! I cannot find this info anywhere.
Does someone either have this info, know where I can find it, or just sharing his "feeling" about what would be correct, before I tighten the whole thing for good. :-)



Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 11:52:38 AM
Just found a scan of the inside of the Baby Pac flyer. Not that easy to tell, but it seems they matched the angle to the metal chute bars, and not to the plastics. Not sure though.

(http://www.pinball.it/flyers/bally/baby_pac_man_1982_f_2.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
Found this Pic, looks like you are right about the alignment of the flippers with the metal bars:

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/babypac.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 02:38:12 PM
Ah yes, that shows it all! You're right, I have some extreme re-adaptation to do now. :-)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Superully on September 21, 2011, 03:38:49 PM
that looks amazing, fabulous work on the playfield! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

i have one question: what is de-oxydating?
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 03:46:50 PM
So, as the whole thing just seemed unusable and could not even be tested since the fuses just kept blowing on startup, I decided to go with the visual side of things first.
First, out came the very poor looking playfield of the pinball portion of Baby Pacman.
Flaking paint and chipped wood, rust and oxydation everywhere, desintegrated bits from the rubbers sort of intertwined with other parts...Blown coils and springs, cold solders everywhere, well , this looked like it was going to be fun for a first job. :-)

So out comes the playfield:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6071/6146762706_0e6521143c_b.jpg)

I was sure I took many pictures from the underneath of the playfield, but I cannot access them now. Flickr limits you to 200 pics in a standard account so not all the pics are displayed. Anyway, what must be noted is that underneath it is full of light holders, wires, coils and other stuff, all delicately fitted.
So you cannot just take out the playfield and place it on the floor or the table. You need to build a "servicing structure" for it.

Also, all these electronics underneath go practically to the edge of the table, so you need to build the structure with very thin planks of wood, not to damage anything. Then cut out what stil is in the way and would damage the electronics. Finally, the box looks like this:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6146198719_1fedb3ba2f_b.jpg)

Then you place the playfield on top, and start stripping everything off:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/6146756018_794bb3c88c_b.jpg)

Remove the mylar from the bumper areas, for it not to get mixed up while sanding and create a gooey mess:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6065/6153038733_b76d292b9e_b.jpg)

The black frame around the board is held with these. Now these are hell to remove. Some people just cut them and leave them in the board, but I did not want that.
With a very thin spatula I went under the frame planks and very slowly started lifting little by little. After about 20 minutes, and the plants were loose enough to be pulled off. Then I hammered these pins down, and removed  them with pliers from the other side of the board.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6153019291_56f5a01c14_b.jpg)

All protruding elements had to be removed too:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6153027675_96aa7a4182_b.jpg)

Then comes the sanding.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 03:48:23 PM
that looks amazing, fabulous work on the playfield! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

i have one question: what is de-oxydating?

Thanks. I clean every part that has oxydation spots with WD-40, and then bathe it for a night in vinagre. In the morning it looks like new.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 03:52:05 PM
Well cleaned, ready to say goodbye to the original paint. I'm amazed, this thing was actually hand painted. You can see and feel the brush strokes.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6200/6153579620_06a95920e7_b.jpg)

Then sanding:
First 40 grit, then 120, then 240, then 400.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6153/6153554428_f5de756da8_b.jpg)

Et voilà:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6153021017_a62900be26_b.jpg)

Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 03:59:45 PM
Forgot to take pictures of that, but repaired the wood cracks with fine wood filler.

Then disassemble all oxydated and rusty parts.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6153035021_acee0f87e5_b.jpg)

Before / after (treated all posts/screws to a drill with a metallic round brush:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6190/6153558298_3f5f078066_b.jpg)

Time to clean off the spinners. Why did they paint the sides white too??? I decide I will not do it that way as the paint WILL come off during playing. Inox will look better.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6153581032_a58b5e9ece_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6153035519_48494f3894_b.jpg)

Fitting new decals to the spinners:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6168311939_4024706d33_b.jpg)

Even the frames are rusty. Every part gets the same treatment. Rust sanded off, then WD-40, vinagre and chrome polish.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6197/6153570162_552c899665_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:06:23 PM
Under the playfield all the plastic were black, and I mean really BLACK from the heat of the bulbs over the years, and chicago dust and nicotine and stuff...

While changing every bulb, every translucent color plastic was thoroughly cleaned, cold solders resoldered. This actually to a whole day, as there are so many lights and cables underneath:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6153024273_374c0c6ce3_b.jpg)

Tested every circuit first with the voltmetre, but then the bulbs connections with this self made supermegatestingbatterymachine.
Why? Because even some new batteries were faulty. Some did not work at all, and some worked but with very low intensity.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6073/6153024699_c1719281c9_b.jpg)

By the way, many original bulbs were still ok. But filthy, and oxydated contacts, and I read that the first time it's best to replace all of them to avoid trouble.

Then all the plastics got a bath:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6146215201_0bed0f7028_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Laschek on September 21, 2011, 04:07:39 PM
Why did sand it down, was it that bad? Looked quite good on the pics...
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 04:14:40 PM
Yeah, same question here..
would touchups and new mylar just do the trick ?

anyway, it came out perfect!

Makes me want to have a baby pac  ;D
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:16:07 PM
At last came the time to stick the new playfield that arrived from phoenixarcades.

Seriously, it took me over 2 hours just to place the thing without sticking it yet. Why?
Because the back paper of the sticker is so thick you cannot see through! And all transparent circles are printed to fit on the translucent color lightcircles by the mm!!!
So you move 1mm here, then the whole thing goes wrong there.
I ended up using a very strong torch light to shine through the decals and paper, to "project" for example the Pacman "P" onto the lightcircle underneath, carefully lifting up the decal to see if I was well positionned. Did that for virtually every light of the playfield, and finally decided it was ok, so lets go.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6168279395_587d0b3e41_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6168277225_fe9988d10b_b.jpg)

Forget about the roll. What you need is that baking silicone tool (the blue one at the top). Works wonders for sticking decals!!! My new best friend (as well as vinagre for cleaning).

Another 2 hours later, and a lot of sweating, the results are in:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6168274837_90959704cd_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6168281327_fcdf43a3c8_b.jpg)

A tiiiiiny little air bubble in the top round circle because the part of the plastic was loose, so hard to get the angle right. It wont be seen, nor even played on, but it is the sort of thing that stops me from sleeping at night.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:27:18 PM
Then time again to flip the board round.

Look at the state of the horrible greasy filthy sticky smelly, well, maybe not smelly, drop down targets. Got NOS ones. Time to replace them.
Like some PC frame boxes, the drop target box cuts like a knife.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6168/6168278221_9f2e308a66_b.jpg)

Cleaned to whole thing, gave the full monty treatment to every spring over night, and rebuilt the box with all the new targets. Works like a baby a looks wow!:-)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6168280681_a26c47771d_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6168275789_f19294aa88_b.jpg)

Then rebuilt the flipper coils and mechanics, as the old ones were more dead than dead:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6168276685_b79048e830_b.jpg)

Nice!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6168814970_b7df17fe19_b.jpg)

Then soldered the lot back to the board, and tested with the supa doopa battery setup (see light bulb replacement). Works! Yes.

Sanded and resprayed the black planks.
Treated all plastics with Novus, and they are almost like new:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6168/6146741408_93f4b24cc4_b.jpg)

And am back to reassembling the playfield, with new rubbers and new balls:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6169412762_4c7edf9ef3_b.jpg)

Note that I glued the black planks. Did not want to shoot either screws or anything else into the wood not to break anything. It hold rocksolid. Using Patex Instant Tack.

I will fix the left & right Pac-Man and Ms Pac-Man plastics at the end before re-installing the table, as I will wax the field one last time before it plays.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:32:05 PM
Yeah, same question here..
would touchups and new mylar just do the trick ?

anyway, it came out perfect!

Makes me want to have a baby pac  ;D

Thanks. You both must know that too: Pics always look better than reality. Believe me, it was unplayable. The woods was actually deformed and cracked open, obviously due to dampness and other harsh treatment. It was very very beaten. I would have saved the original if possible, but here there was no way around as I actually want to play on it (a lot), and otherwise it would have just been good for the museum.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:36:42 PM
IMPORTANT:

Almost forgot another important fact. As the wood points trough many parts of the playfield, I could not use primer to coat the playfield before adapting the decal.
Used acrylic "lack" varnish spray, in total 4 coats.

First coat sanded down with 400 grit.

The next two sanded with 600 grit. Could not find 600 in the "normal" do it yourself supplies, so they sent me to the car tuning section, where they had 600. What? :-)
Well, if anyone can't find 600, go to the car tuning. An arcade tuning corner would be nice too for such equipment.

Anyway, I did not sand the last layer, as it already had a slight "grainy" touch to it that felt really nice. And it worked well.
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: zapposh on September 21, 2011, 04:42:35 PM
By the way, I'd like to change the title to something else, like Estella, or like Baby Pac restoration or something of the sort...
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Superully on September 21, 2011, 05:32:15 PM
seeing this gives me one more reason to never ever get a pinball - insane number of parts to replace / repair / restore!
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: level42 on September 21, 2011, 06:18:33 PM
Man this is hardcore !!! Love it, keep those pics coming ! :)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 09:09:14 PM
By the way, I'd like to change the title to something else, like Estella, or like Baby Pac restoration or something of the sort...

just edit your first post  ;)
Title: Re: A baby is born
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 21, 2011, 09:10:27 PM
seeing this gives me one more reason to never ever get a pinball - insane number of parts to replace / repair / restore!

says the man that transforms the most beaten cabs to beautiful pieces again  ;D
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 10:26:27 AM
Ok, next the coin door was up.

Have no close-up pictures really of the "before". No major beatings, but somehow very spotted and some scratches and rust, especially in the return coin compartments and screw areas.
After cleaning the door with half a dozen less aggressive then more aggressive products, impossible the get these strange big spots off. It looked very strange.

I thought I would have to have the whole thing sand blasted and powder coated because it looked horrible. Well, at last I found the magic product:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6177/6184674230_167f566d3d_b.jpg)
Industrial grade hand cleaner. This grainy sort of soap mechanics use. After several washes with it and 15 minutes scrubbing, the marks were gone.

The whole door had been stripped.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6184661182_495085c6a2_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6184139377_ea5f668da1_b.jpg)

All parts disassembled, cleaned, polished, sanded and so on. Eject coin buttons were damaged and rusty. Now all is like new again and the eject buttons shine:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6184664520_f154a2e3ed_b.jpg)

Plastics went through Novus and extensive vinagre cleaner treatment and are now awaiting their time of glory again:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6184144761_d1e30a90f2_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6184687842_7f041691b6_b.jpg)

Like said, I had rust problems like this in many places:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6184143301_274932d421_b.jpg)

I decided to go for Hammerite, which is a sort of Rust dissolvent & paint combined, most ofter used to spray already painted outside stuff, like metal gates, garden furniture or heaters in damp areas and so on:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6184147499_2ae78878b5_b.jpg)

I hate this stuff. It is difficult to work with as very liquid and runs everywhere very fast. But it does do the job. After about 4-5 coats of Hammerite:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6184684922_e05f9b9812_b.jpg)

Still the chutes to fix. Taping up as I don't want to respray the front of the door:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6184138737_c2accfcf7d_b.jpg)

2 coats right into the chutes and the rust (which I had already beforehand removed and treated with standard rust killer) was gone:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6184161499_e88c06abe0_b.jpg)

Then reassembled the whole thing, redid the soldering of the lamps and coin arrival slots as most wires were capped off, repaired the "bang-door contact" which was damaged, put a brand new lock, and now the coin door is ready:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6184153191_deac94b445_b.jpg)

There is a tiny hole left on the right side of the lock on the frame, but I'll deal with that later as it will not be sprayed.

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 11:26:21 AM
Like mentioned before, the monitor is completely burned out, shorts the fustes and looks a mess.

I mean, look at that. Obviously the high score was not beaten for a long time. ;-)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6153/6184662136_2022564469_b.jpg)

So out it came, with the frame structure.
For info, it is a 13 inch Wells-Gardner monitor.

I suppose every project has some anecdotes and coincidence, and here is mine:
I used to do quite a lot of video editing in the past, and had quite a bunch of professional equipment for doing so. One of the things was a high-res RGB monitor with external synch input and over/underscan functionality. As far as I remembered, it was a 14 inch, lying around somewhere in the basement.
So I found it, pulled it out, and compared it to the original Wells-Gardner:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6184670840_dc98e603ef_b.jpg)
Veeery close, looking good!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6184166483_61fbc4ea45_b.jpg)

I check the reference again on internet. The Panasonic 1415s is sold as a 14 inch reference monitor. Yet they look the same size to me.
So I unscrew the Panasonic, to find that the dimensions are identical to the mm, and that the frame screw mount holes are in exactly the same spot. This is amazing, as a while back I was thinking a selling this screen, long before ever thinking of getting an arcade machine. Very happy find, and very happy coincidence.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6184145893_7969e2f33d_b.jpg)

The thing now will be to replace one with the other without frying myself (asked the question in this post):
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2998.msg39958#msg39958 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2998.msg39958#msg39958)

Buy the way, the dead Wells Gardner is now out of the frame and ready to go to the recycling center in the coming days. While carrying the thing, so being very close to it with body contact, I got a very bad headache. Does that thing emit any radiation when not discharged or was it just provoked by all the chemical cleaners I was using?
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: speleo_de on September 26, 2011, 11:57:23 AM
Not sure about your storage capacities and location, but imho you should not dispose the original monitor, as its lost even for spare parts then.

Maybe someone can use it or parts of it, sooner or later. I would take it, if you were closer.

Maybe you find someone immediately taking it as a freebie.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 12:04:24 PM
I would really need some general opinion here as what to do.

Here are some pics of my now completely empty cabinet. Please keep in mind that the photos always look better than the real thing in this case.
As you can see, the cab is not really bad. No major or serious damage. I will slightly sand down the black part inside around the monitor area and playfield, as the wood grain in coming through the old paint (you cannot see this on the photos). That is not much work and will be resprayed.

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/6184667406_aca59e132d_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6184676158_c53430c69b_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/6184137715_2737bd6697_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6184148613_6b6fa90bf9_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6184157911_c56cf180b7_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6184149451_c4b60e2958_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6184663504_1a4bf99729_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6184165759_b3a38a874f_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6184158865_f827ff687b_b.jpg)

The big question remains for the outside yellow. Besides it being filthy and most spots not being removable because they seem to have "entered the paint", everywhere there are chips, dents, little scratches, edge damage from moving around the cabinet, without any major holes or broken parts. Also under the side art decals the paint is chipped and coming off, and it would show just to stick new decals on top.

What would the pros here do???
Preserve the original paint and touch up all the little imperfections by maybe mixing a little acrylic paint and filling the holes as well as possible? Imperfections will surely show.
Or would you go for the full treatment and sand down / bondo the whole thing, prime and repaint?

Up to now I have been trying to get every little part to look like new again, but here I'm not sure what is the best road to take.
Comment very much appreciated.
Thanks! :spaceace:

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 12:07:21 PM
Not sure about your storage capacities and location, but imho you should not dispose the original monitor, as its lost even for spare parts then.

Maybe someone can use it or parts of it, sooner or later. I would take it, if you were closer.

Maybe you find someone immediately taking it as a freebie.

Of course, this is why I mentioned it. Anyone who wants it is welcome to pick it up.
What I don't want for now is someone asking me to disconnect the boards or something, as like I said, the whole thing is still charged and I don't want to get zapped. But anyone is welcome to get the lot.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on September 26, 2011, 12:30:49 PM
i wood fix the damages to the cabinet and touch up the paint!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: level42 on September 26, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
Not sure about your storage capacities and location, but imho you should not dispose the original monitor, as its lost even for spare parts then.

Maybe someone can use it or parts of it, sooner or later. I would take it, if you were closer.

Maybe you find someone immediately taking it as a freebie.

Of course, this is why I mentioned it. Anyone who wants it is welcome to pick it up.
What I don't want for now is someone asking me to disconnect the boards or something, as like I said, the whole thing is still charged and I don't want to get zapped. But anyone is welcome to get the lot.

When was the last time you powered up this monitor ?
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 03:43:21 PM
Not sure about your storage capacities and location, but imho you should not dispose the original monitor, as its lost even for spare parts then.

Maybe someone can use it or parts of it, sooner or later. I would take it, if you were closer.

Maybe you find someone immediately taking it as a freebie.

Of course, this is why I mentioned it. Anyone who wants it is welcome to pick it up.
What I don't want for now is someone asking me to disconnect the boards or something, as like I said, the whole thing is still charged and I don't want to get zapped. But anyone is welcome to get the lot.

When was the last time you powered up this monitor ?

Officially, never. Got the Baby Pac 10 days ago. Plugged in my stepdown converter, and its fuse blew as soon as I turned on the game.
Unplugged all the boards, lamps and pinball. Again, the second fuse blew.
Unplugged the monitor, which was the last thing hooked up to the trafo, and the fuse held, so out came the monitor, which seems to be shorting.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 03:46:04 PM
i wood fix the damages to the cabinet and touch up the paint!

But the touch-ups would need to be sanded, so paint applied to larger areas than little spots, so I'm worried it will be very visible. You have had positive results with little touchups?
The other thing is the surface does not feel like paint like on a Pac-Man cab for instance. More like some sort of synthetic semi-glossy coating.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on September 26, 2011, 05:10:56 PM
of course it would be "smoother" if you repainted the entire cabinet ...
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 26, 2011, 09:29:58 PM
Seeing all the work done already, i would take the cab to the home depot and scan the color "darthnuno style" (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=975.msg13518#msg13518), and repaint it completely after bondo-ing.

You spend too much time for the rest to look perfect and like you say, you will see the touchups (and probably you will see them more because you know they are there) and be annoyed by it every time you see your cab..

so i would suggest go all the way  ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 26, 2011, 10:10:35 PM
Seeing all the work done already, i would take the cab to the home depot and scan the color "darthnuno style" (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=975.msg13518#msg13518), and repaint it completely after bondo-ing.

You spend too much time for the rest to look perfect and like you say, you will see the touchups (and probably you will see them more because you know they are there) and be annoyed by it every time you see your cab..

so i would suggest go all the way  ;)

Very funny movie clip of the cashier trying to find the barcode on Darthnunos Qbert. Excellent. :-)

Ok guys, thanks for your input. I cannot take to the cab to a shop and cannot afford a color scanner for now, but I'll try to color-match as close as possible.
From what I heard Rapsgelb RAL 1021 is supposed to be an almost perfect match:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6168811596_551b5f2ac3_b.jpg)

I'll get a tiny pot of it and see if it's true.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: solidsnake on September 26, 2011, 11:10:04 PM
if you going to repaint the cab compleet
try to take out a thin part of the wood with the yellow color on it,you can put it back later on and fill it up again.
i think i saw Superully doing it also that way im sure i read someone did it like that here on form

you dont need a big part to scan ;)

found it https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1815.30 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1815.30)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 27, 2011, 08:43:54 AM
if you going to repaint the cab compleet
try to take out a thin part of the wood with the yellow color on it,you can put it back later on and fill it up again.
i think i saw Superully doing it also that way im sure i read someone did it like that here on form

you dont need a big part to scan ;)

found it https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1815.30 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1815.30)

You are right, that's what I'll do. Yes, I followed the post where Superully takes a little block of his cab to have it scanned. The difference is that he's a wood expert and I'm learning, so I'm always a little worried to chop things up and later refixing them again without it showing. We'll see.  ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 27, 2011, 01:46:44 PM
What the? No "pop"?

Ok, so I decided to have a first go at discharging a monitor and being a man about it, so for starters I decided to adopt darthnunos style. ;-)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6188692342_5c7e3cf54e_b.jpg)

Ok, so the croco-pincers are firmly hooked up to the chassis for one, to the screwdriver for the other. Then the screwdriver nicely inserted under the suction cup until it met some "resistance" in the center, well, until it could not go any further, and that was it.
I must admit I'm a little disappointed, as I was expecting anything from a simple loud pop to a life threatening experience with blue flashes flying around the room, screeching sound and implosion debris flying through the air. But nothing.  ???

Does it mean it did not work? The monitor was in action only a couple of months ago, so it is impossible it could have discharged by itself.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 27, 2011, 02:37:07 PM
Yes, probably it was discharged over time, but always do it !

you never know if there is still a little juice left there..

i never use the stick, that makes it more difficult to manouvre..
just my two cents..
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: DarthNuno on September 27, 2011, 08:12:41 PM
Put the baby in your car and go to Brico Plan It @ Messancy, for doing something like this (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=975.msg13518#msg13518)  :)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 27, 2011, 09:17:11 PM
Yes, I love that story, and the one with your Ms Pac-Man!  ;D

I think I will go to Messancy, as I don't know anyone here who scans and mixes paint.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 28, 2011, 09:32:24 AM
I found someone who had the color matched and then mixed, and the values are on this label.
But are such values brand and type of paint specific, or will a paint shop know what to do if I take them a print-out of this?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/3657637254_54e186aa8a_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 28, 2011, 11:01:14 AM
i think the person to ask is the paintshop  ;) ;D
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: DarthNuno on September 28, 2011, 05:34:39 PM
Yes, I love that story, and the one with your Ms Pac-Man!  ;D

I think I will go to Messancy, as I don't know anyone here who scans and mixes paint.

Let me know when you'll plan do go there, I may combine that 'paint quest' with you (need to scan my blue popeye), I'm at 10 minutes from there  ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 28, 2011, 06:54:14 PM
yes, especially since i owe you loads of money for the G&G sidearts :)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 01:18:16 PM
Ok, now for a very boring part for all those here who have done it 800 times. Time for a new CPO.
After the adventure sticking the pinball overlay, this was going to be a walk in the park.

The original was in a pretty bad state:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6184164179_64fec283af_b.jpg)

Removed all the controls and harness:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/6184668458_370daf195c_b.jpg)

Started removing the overlay. It was much more time consuming than I had anticipated.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6171/6184163547_c3dbea963a_b.jpg)

The leftovers...
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6184664872_d0398ec29b_b.jpg)

And finally, the blank control panel, with lots of goo, but also rust here and there, which bothered me:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6184673944_1683b35c0c_b.jpg)

To remove the goo, I used Acetone, which is a boring name for what it is: A braincell killer.
But I suppose nobody would buy it if the label called it that. Powerful stuff. Does make you dizzy.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/6184139047_b36d40652c_b.jpg)

After scrubbing with the acetone and then sanding, it is ready.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/6184162923_85e1c1f074_b.jpg)

Because I had had rust damage on the CP, I decided to prime it with Hammerite, if you can remember me using it on the coin door.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6184147499_2ae78878b5_b.jpg)

NEVER DO THAT!!! It does not hold when you spray over. I sprayed a coat of black acrylic over the Hammerite, and the whole thing crackled up and started desintegrating. So sanded the whole thing down again.

My second spray session turned out badly too. Sanded down again.

The third session, that included antirust in the paint, at last came out to my expectations:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6004/6197135935_59936d28c0_b.jpg)

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 01:24:38 PM
The joystick and housing was in a disgusting state, from grease to filth, rust to dents.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6173/6184142685_f3910c93f1_b.jpg)

Took the whole mechanism appart, for cleaning, polishing or sanding, depending if it was rubber, plastic or metal:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6172/6184678994_f226e29618_b.jpg)

Finally, the fully refurbished joystick, that feels nice. Looking forward to many hi-scores with it.  ;)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6184666072_5d7246bd4c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 01:35:56 PM
Next the overlay is up:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6197658334_ab6655e6f0_b.jpg)

After some positioning, I'm happy with the placement:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6002/6197661006_f47e49d8fe_b.jpg)

The same toolset as for the pinball overlay. A hard roller, which I don't really use apart from around the edges and round angles, and my best friend, the silicone baking spoon cake topping thingy...
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/6197654528_51c0d66c9c_b.jpg)
Also some pincers and fine instruments to get little cut-outs out before or during the glueing process.

Tested the silicone spatula for scratches on the patch I removed from the center of the overlay, where the joystick goes through. Great, no scratching, works fine! Just the right pressure.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6197137925_f96981d172_b.jpg)

Here we go. Overlay pulled up, back removed and cut off and curled inwards, to start by sticking the top part.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6141/6197141127_9b98077d3e_b.jpg)

Done:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6018/6197657862_34509bd731_b.jpg)

Edge flipped around and pincers added for the pressure:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6197654312_368c225399_b.jpg)

Now the front of the panel:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6003/6197657326_c3dbe9c1b5_b.jpg)
Finished. The overlay is stuck. The result is perfect. As it was a first time (exept for sticking the pinball overlay), I'm happy.

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 01:43:24 PM
Time to reassemble.

Hmmm, not good. :-\ I suppose this is a beginners mistake. Tightened the screws too much I think, which sort of slightly "bevels" the area of the overlay around the screw. As seen on this pic:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6177/6197137405_1a2154fc79_b.jpg)

Will go easy on the following screws.

Buttons look like new.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/6197656362_400ca4429e_b.jpg)

For info this is what the were like when removed:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6184667732_8d29b5303a_b.jpg)

In goes the refurbished joystick we saw earlier:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6197140897_22cb37320d_b.jpg)

Put double sided powertape on the harness holders. That is how they originally had been fixed, but the tape had desintegrated and I sanded it off the panel and washed it off the plastics:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/6197142171_d428a1956e_b.jpg)

Here they are glued back on, ready to fit the wires into them:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6135/6197136897_eb5248ca79_b.jpg)

The control panel and controls restoration is complete:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6163/6197659638_0cc6bfbf8b_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on September 30, 2011, 02:23:44 PM
really nice work on this one, makes all the efforts totally worthwhile! well done :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Belike on September 30, 2011, 02:51:14 PM
I love it, those arts are great. :D
Nice job! ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 30, 2011, 02:55:23 PM

NEVER DO THAT!!! It does not hold when you spray over. I sprayed a coat of black acrylic over the Hammerite, and the whole thing crackled up and started desintegrating. So sanded the whole thing down again.


First of all, great job on the panel !, it looks saweeet ! :spaceace:

about your paint issue, that is because you use acrylic over oilbased paint i think....

I have heard never to mix the two kinds of paint ..
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 02:55:34 PM
really nice work on this one, makes all the efforts totally worthwhile! well done :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:

Thanks! That means a lot to me coming from a guy who hates pinball.  ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 02:57:49 PM
I love it, those arts are great. :D
Nice job! ;)

Thanks! Actually it is not quite finished I just realized. As the panel closes directly over the glass of the playfield, I still need a rubber self-adhesive strip that the pinball guys call "beer seal". Also not to scratch either the glass or the CPO. Will try to find that in a pinballshop.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 02:59:05 PM

NEVER DO THAT!!! It does not hold when you spray over. I sprayed a coat of black acrylic over the Hammerite, and the whole thing crackled up and started desintegrating. So sanded the whole thing down again.


First of all, great job on the panel !, it looks saweeet ! :spaceace:

about your paint issue, that is because you use acrylic over oilbased paint i think....

Thanks. Yes, you must be right. As long as the Hammerite was alone it was ok. As soon as the acrylic was added it was a right-off.

I have heard never to mix the two kinds of paint ..
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 30, 2011, 06:48:32 PM
Back to the color scan issue.
I somehow cannot find the courage to cut out a whole chunk of the perfectly solid  and in good state cab to take out a piece for color scanning, like Superully did.
And my car is much too small to take the whole cab to the shop like Darthnuno did.

How big does the surface need to be for the color-scanner to work correctly? Will a little chip of paint do, or does it have to be like 6x6cm or something?


Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on September 30, 2011, 07:55:17 PM
the size of a 2 euro coin should be fine!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: level42 on October 01, 2011, 07:53:21 AM
This is an awesome restoration !!!

May I suggest that you paint the bottom of the joystick? In my experience it starts rusting again very quickly if you leave it bare.

Even better if you have the possibility to powder coat it, like Ully had done for my Pac stick.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 01, 2011, 02:59:20 PM
This is an awesome restoration !!!

May I suggest that you paint the bottom of the joystick? In my experience it starts rusting again very quickly if you leave it bare.

Even better if you have the possibility to powder coat it, like Ully had done for my Pac stick.

Thanks for the input Level42.
I also think that many other parts will need to be sealed off from rust, which I did not realize when working on them.
Parts like the ones on the pics below obviously had their protective coat removed when I sanded them so much.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6163/6184137405_b649bfd281_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6190/6153558298_3f5f078066_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6179/6153021971_2abf9c89e9_b.jpg)

I noticed that as long as they are in the warm dry atmosphere of the house, they are fine. But as soon as they spend some time in the garage not far from the washing line and changes of temperature or condensation, they develop a sort of powder rust coating (Flugrost), which is very easy to remove, but still needs to be sealed off somehow. Maybe some sort of transparent spray, as I cannot make all these parts black. The base of the joystick I will spray like you said.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 01, 2011, 03:12:01 PM
Today was a bad, or better said, an unsuccessful day for my Baby renovation.
First, even though I felt bad about it, I cut out a 2€ piece of the cab like Ully suggested.
As you can see, from under where the decal was, for two reasons:
1) the paint color is really vibrant and clean there
2) if I suck at filling the hole I hope it will be less visible when the new decals are on

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6199883877_80e60b5c27_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6005/6199880969_708cfa485c_b.jpg)

Poor baby has a hole. Well, I suppose it could be worse.

And off we go to the paintshop. Sorry Darthnuno, I found out that I have a shop very close to my place, so decided to go to Messancy as plan B if they don't manage here.

At the paintshop I explain to the (quite young and enthusiastic) guy what is going on, and what I need it for.
Ok, so he takes my sample, and comes back 3 minutes later and says:
"Do you want 95-97% accuracy, or 101%?" (101%?: well, in his words absolutely accurate)
As it is my first restoration, I go for 101% of course.
"Well, in that case come back on monday with a bigger piece!". Aaarghhhh.

Here is the explanation:
They have a sort of hand-scanner, thing you hold in your hand, place over the color, and it gives you the color feedback, code, or catalogue equivalent and things like that. They say it is 95-97% accurate.
But they also have a machine which looks like a sort of combo "blackbox" scanner & mixer. They insert the piece and out comes your pot of paint, and they swear by this hi-tech tool that it is spot on accurate. Ok, so back home we go.

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 01, 2011, 03:15:32 PM
Ok, so now it's time to get out a full sized part for their magic machine.
Just next to my 2€ cutout, out comes the full cab piece this time.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6137/6200394642_59656eab9a_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6141/6200393546_94e51656d6_b.jpg)

And this is what they will get on Monday:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6168/6199879127_b79a717355_b.jpg)

Really not happy about having a big gaping hole like that in the cab, but will see about that later.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 01, 2011, 03:24:26 PM
Ok, the sun shining, the cab being outside and everything ready, I thought it would be a great day for sanding:
Started with 60 grit. The first 10 minutes went really smoothly:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6013/6199882457_d3b80d43c3_b.jpg)

Then a loud cracking noise, and the sander breaks in two!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6199879527_91a6757611_b.jpg)

Used to sand the pinball board of Baby Pac and this part, that's all!
In the shop the was a great looking Bosch machine, and next to it this one, with loads of options and other free stuff, more Watts and so on. The salesman says it's amazing, a real powerhorse, loads of free pads to go with it and so on. I usually only buy Bosch stuff, but decided the guy might have a clue about what he's talking about, and after all, there is a price difference. Well, this is rubbish!

Nice pic of the box: "High Quality Tools":
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6200395320_afec253ae0_b.jpg)
DON'T BUY ONE, whether it's to sand a cab or file your toenails.

Another thing to deal with on Monday.

So, back in went the cab without any further work.  >:(
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on October 01, 2011, 06:57:31 PM
it sucks when you have to wait for something (unfortunately patience is a virtue which i don't have - or at least it could use some love and tenderness), but hey, 101% accuracy - can you ask for more? i'm curious to find out how accurate this really is. as for the "operation": you will be able to fix this and it won't be visible underneath the decals!

as for the power tool: don't buy CCC!!!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on October 01, 2011, 08:54:40 PM
....Then a loud cracking noise, and the sander breaks in two!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6199879527_91a6757611_b.jpg)

Well, at least you got yourself a almost new mains cord  ;D
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: vernimark on October 03, 2011, 01:31:45 PM
I absolutely can't reach your perfection level my friend!!
you are doing a fantastic job!!!!!!!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 03, 2011, 05:02:14 PM
it sucks when you have to wait for something (unfortunately patience is a virtue which i don't have - or at least it could use some love and tenderness), but hey, 101% accuracy - can you ask for more? i'm curious to find out how accurate this really is. as for the "operation": you will be able to fix this and it won't be visible underneath the decals!

as for the power tool: don't buy CCC!!!

Thanks Superully! I am also impatient like you, especially when the time is perfect to advance. And for CCC I learned my lesson.

....Then a loud cracking noise, and the sander breaks in two!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6199879527_91a6757611_b.jpg)

Well, at least you got yourself a almost new mains cord  ;D

Very good one! That's the spirit!  ;D ;D ;D


I absolutely can't reach your perfection level my friend!!
you are doing a fantastic job!!!!!!!

Thanks vernimark! I'm sure yours will turn out great. And you have the genuine playfield not sanded off, which is great! After the restortation is completed I might look for a genuine playfield in good condition and have it ceramic-clearcoated after paint restoration. But that has time...



 
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 03, 2011, 05:33:42 PM
Hmmm, the good news first or bad news first?

Let's start with the good one.
The weather here is fantastic today in Baby Pac-Land.  :)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6024/6207988174_2ab2f2fe59_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 03, 2011, 06:36:16 PM
That ok news is that I got this broken piece of chinese crap:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6199879527_91a6757611_b.jpg)

Replaced by a new version of the same chinese crap:  :-\
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6207474081_fb20eb6766_b.jpg)

"What did you do to it?" they ask on a stupid tone like I drove over it with a tank.
Well, once I've saved money to buy the nice looking Bosch model, I wont go to that shop. Done with them...
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 03, 2011, 06:49:45 PM
And then the bad part. Today I was to get my 101% accurate Baby Pac paint scanned and mixed.

First, I must say kudos for the guys at the shop. I've never had such amazing service of 2 hours for 1L of paint.
Anyway, this is how it went. They loved my new sample for their mixing machine, that I cut out on Saturday:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6168/6199879127_b79a717355_b.jpg)

The problem is the scanner replies with an accuracy of 99%. So the guys recalibrate the whole thing twice, told everyone in the shop to stop moving so that there are no parasite light effects and redid the process again and again. The best we got to was 99,11%, which seemed to puzzle them as the sample was said to be perfect, clean, the right size and all...
Frankly, to me such a value sounds great, and I have no idea if one can tell such accuracy or not with the normal eye.
But they say the human eye can tell starting rom 0,2% off. WOW!

After a lot of discussion and speculation amongst the guys, the decide I need semi-gloss oil based paint. I know many use water based, but the cab almost has a vinyl touch to it, and the guys said I would never reach the same color and texture water-based.
So they mixed a pot of 1L. At first sight, OH DEAR!
Dried with the hair dryer it came out really green.

So we again applied a coat, a decided to let it dry naturally for 24 hours to let the oils evaporate, the glossy effect to go away, and apparently it will be much less green then. On wednesday I'll go back, and we'll modify the mixture manually (well, on the machine to save the settings, but adding a drop of this and that until it's right).

This is the result now, still very wet and glossy (see bottom right corner):
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6012/6207989310_378930d325_b.jpg)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/6207986818_6a4f80d810_b.jpg)

Tomorrow we'll compare the results when dry. So much to 101%!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on October 03, 2011, 07:12:24 PM
uh, damn, that's no even close :(
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: level42 on October 03, 2011, 09:23:34 PM
Not yet. Drying can do a lot.

Chinese tools.....don't do it. Been there, done that. No more.

Even the consumer big brands like Bosch, B&D etc. are only so-so and OK for home use (now and then).
If you want real machines use the Blue Bosch line (professional) or get Makita etc.

Expensive though.

Why didn't they allow you to buy the Bosch with some extra money ?
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 04, 2011, 07:31:51 AM
uh, damn, that's no even close :(

No, and it did not get much better over night while drying.  :-[

...get Makita etc.

Expensive though.

Why didn't they allow you to buy the Bosch with some extra money ?


I suppose they would have if I had asked them. The problem is the "extra money", so better tools will have to wait... Talking about Makita, yes, excellent equipment, very robust and heavy duty. One day...
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 04, 2011, 08:09:13 AM
Ok, so this morning, after drying all night: Still greenish... (top right corner)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6212/6209830213_25c2a8ecf4_b.jpg)

RAL 1023 is pretty damn close. Just a tic too bright and vibrant, but the tone is there. Thinking of talking that as a base and mixing from there. Especially if you compare it to the green mixed version, I just find we are not very close.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6057/6209830849_a03b27d2ac_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: level42 on October 04, 2011, 09:31:19 AM
The RAL system allows  for a whopping 10% color difference so be careful....

It looks way too green indeed....such a shame after their hard work.
Today I'm going to have my Ms. PAC decals scanned and paint mixed. Hope for better results...
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on October 04, 2011, 09:36:59 AM
Looks like you need to go to Bruno's shop after all...  the results there are good as we al have seen on the various posts..

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: level42 on October 04, 2011, 09:53:28 AM
Well I STILL have to apply the DK red on my Nintendo, but I'm sure it's going to be GREAT....
(Keep flipping and shaking that tin every now and then ;))

@Etienne: I'm going to a place you may be familiar with because they also have a shop in your town:
De Verfkoning.

They sell top-brand surplus parties of paint at EXCELLENT prices, but they also do mixing. The store (at least in Rotterdam) is a bit messy, but I don't care if I can buy a tin of paint for 7.50 that costs 22.50 at Gamma....... ;)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: vernimark on October 04, 2011, 11:31:00 AM
I have to do this job too...
Even if I don't want to repaint all sides, there are some holes  :shock: both on the right ad on the left sides...
I hope to find a similar color  :?
anyway most important issue is the glass, please let me know if dimensions you gave me are right  :lol:
 :pac:  :ghost:

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on October 05, 2011, 01:14:07 PM
The RAL system allows  for a whopping 10% color difference so be careful....

It looks way too green indeed....such a shame after their hard work.
Today I'm going to have my Ms. PAC decals scanned and paint mixed. Hope for better results...

I might get 2-3 of the smallest RAL paint pots just to make tests a see for the base. I mean, it cannot be any worse. How did the Ms Pac-Man mix go?

Looks like you need to go to Bruno's shop after all...  the results there are good as we al have seen on the various posts..



Yes, if a solution cannot be found, I will go to Messancy. But the guys tried so hard they deserve a second chance. If they cannot manage then I'll change.

I have to do this job too...
Even if I don't want to repaint all sides, there are some holes  :shock: both on the right ad on the left sides...
I hope to find a similar color  :?
anyway most important issue is the glass, please let me know if dimensions you gave me are right  :lol:
 :pac:  :ghost:



The thing is that for touch-ups the paint just mixed would have been perfect. It is, to the eye at least, exactly the color of the rest of the cab, after being exposed to dirt, light and humidity for 30 years. It has a green touch to it which you do sometimes see on Baby Pacs that sell on ebay. The color under the decals is very different from the rest. Much more vibrant and warm yellow.

The glass is arriving in 1 week, so I'll tell you if it's ok or not, and make pictures. Final width is 5mm they said. I forgot to ask for "without reflection", so I hope it does not mirror too much. We'll see. Price of the tempered glass made to measure: 40€ (for info, tempered glass is not cut to measure, but actually made to measure).
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on October 05, 2011, 05:01:05 PM

@Etienne: I'm going to a place you may be familiar with because they also have a shop in your town:
De Verfkoning.


Yep i know them here, i was there once to buy something, and indeed the store looks messy, i think its just the concept they use

good quality products , bad decoration tidyness in the store.

I prefer the way they do it; save on the "store costs" and charge less for good quality paint.

Oh back to topic, i would simply buy RAL 1023 and paint the complete cab.
I know we all want to restaurate as accurate as possible, but dont forget that the cabs from 25 years old also have colorfading over the years, so you will not see the difference if the cab is completely repainted.

you are right about touchups, then you need the exact match as the surrounding parts...
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: vernimark on October 26, 2011, 03:56:05 PM
news about the glass?

:)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on November 01, 2011, 09:58:13 AM
Yes, the glass is ready! Will pick i up this week and tell you if it fits (and if they respected the given measurements).

What really annoys me is that I have to be all over the place, all the time, for my new job, and cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel. This forces the restoration projects into total stand-by.

So I don't know what to do:
Sell the projects on to someone who has the time (and maybe later regret it)?
Keep everything without knowing when things will change? Could take 6 months but could take 6 years...

Or maybe get another job with spare time for other things... :-\
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on November 01, 2011, 10:40:11 AM
I'll buy your unfinished baby pac for 50€  ;)  ;D ;D ;D ;D :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on November 01, 2011, 11:19:12 AM
I'll buy your unfinished baby pac for 50€  ;)  ;D ;D ;D ;D :lol: :lol: :lol:

i'll raise etienne by a full euro :P

seriously, dude, you've already put so much effort into this, don't you dare sell that b****. you will find the time eventually to finish it and you'll realize that every minute spent restoring it was totally worthwile!
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on November 01, 2011, 11:51:15 AM
Many thanks for your generous offers. I'll think about it. ;)

Well, maybe I won't think about it because I don't want to upset Ulli.  :)

Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on November 01, 2011, 12:29:02 PM
Yeah, it will be a dissapointment to sell it under his nose for one euro less than he offered since i was the first  ;D
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: vernimark on November 07, 2011, 12:15:07 AM
I can understand you...
Anyway I usually can find a LOT of time for my cabs between one girlfriend and the next one hehe. It means every 3 / 4 years ;)

Oh, there is a possibility I move in Belgium forever so Bruxelles may have a new game room soon
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on December 05, 2011, 09:03:37 AM
Unconnected for months and overrun by work.

Quick update:
Will have more time to carry on project in a couple of weeks (quit job at last).

Sorry Vernimark for posting this weeks after you finished your cab. Got the glass in the end:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6458327511_e40b2daf91_b.jpg)

And it fits like a sock, so the dimensions were good:  :)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7146/6458326891_83777df759_b.jpg)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: vernimark on December 07, 2011, 03:33:23 AM
perfect:)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: webdoc90 on September 14, 2012, 05:48:55 AM
So what's the status of this restoration?  I just got 2 Baby Pacman machines and I'm planning to fully restore both.  One for testing my mistakes and the other all good.
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: zapposh on September 14, 2012, 02:46:22 PM
Don't you need a third one just in case the first 2 go wrong?

This resto is on hold as gameroom=babyroom now, and still for sale, even though I might work something out with a farmer not far where I could store it and resume working on it. We'll see.

Good luck with your babies. :)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Nic-fryer on June 08, 2014, 10:56:22 AM
How's this going? I was reading with such interest  :)
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Superully on October 29, 2014, 12:03:24 AM
what happened to this one?
Title: Re: A baby is RE-born: BABY PAC restoration project
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on October 29, 2014, 07:18:18 AM
Summary - zapposh

Name:  zapposh
Posts:  207 (0.177 per day)
Position:  Member
Date Registered:  15 August 2011, 14:34:04
 
Last Active:  04 November 2012, 17:31:49

I guess he left..