Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Muerto on August 26, 2010, 10:04:38 PM



Title: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 26, 2010, 10:04:38 PM
Hiya guys

I have an original Ms. Pac Man PCB in my Pac Man cab (doh - we all had!)
Can i by a swap of some ICīs/chips make it into a Pac Man PCB again?


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 26, 2010, 10:37:11 PM
But of course. Ms.Pac was a hack of Pac.


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 26, 2010, 10:50:44 PM
ok, a very nice hack which had itīs own dedicated cab!  8)
well, that is easy then, iīm trying tomorrow with the roms i got from gyruss! - i let you know (gyruss) if they work!


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 26, 2010, 11:09:35 PM
You never heard about Crazy Otto ?

Copied from Wikipedia:

Ms. Pac-Man was originally conceived as a bootlegged hack of Pac-Man called Crazy Otto, created by programmers employed at the General Computer Corporation (GCC).[2]
The programmers, surprised at the quality of the game they had created, showed it to Midway, Namco's American distributor of the original game. Midway had become impatient in waiting for Namco to release its next Pac-Man game (which would be Super Pac-Man), and were enthusiastic that such a game had come to their attention. They bought the rights to Crazy Otto, changed the sprites to fit the Pac-Man universe, renamed the game Ms. Pac-Man, and released it into arcades.[citation needed]
After the game became wildly popular, Midway and GCC undertook a brief legal battle concerning royalties, but because the game was accomplished without Namco's consent, both companies eventually turned over the rights of Ms. Pac-Man to Namco, fearing a lawsuit. Nonetheless, Ms. Pac-Man was the first of a series of unauthorized sequels that eventually led to the termination of the licensing agreement between Namco and Midway.[2] Ms. Pac-Man was later released on the third Namco Museum game; however, there is no mention of it in Namco's official archives (including the archives on all of the Namco Museum releases).
In 2001, Namco released an arcade board featuring both Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga in honor of the 20th anniversary of both games. It also features Pac-Man as a hidden bonus game. The later 25th Anniversary Edition allows all three games to be selected at the main menu.[citation needed]


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 26, 2010, 11:21:19 PM
ok, interesting!!
Love stories like this!!!

Any other games who had been done the same to?


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 26, 2010, 11:37:27 PM
MC. They made Super Missile Attack.

Man you have to google more ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Computer_Corp.

About the EPROMs, pretty soon you can get your EPROMs from me.... :D

Oh and the conversion is very simple:

Remove the Ms. Pac daughter board and ribbon cable. Take the cpu out of the daughter board and place it where the ribbon cable was hooked up.
Make sure you place the cpu in the proper way.

Replace 5E and 5F eproms with Pacman eproms.

But uhmmm, Ms.Pac Man is much better then Pac Man......  ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 01:03:44 AM
I already have one Ms. Pac Man and thereīs no fun in having the same machine twice.. Except for my 2 Ice Cold Beerīs!!!!!
But ill give it a go tomorrow!


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 08:23:51 AM
Ah oh yeah I forgot...let's see which one you will play the most ;)


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: gyruss on August 27, 2010, 09:17:47 AM
I wonder if they will work. Fingers crossed! ;D


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 12:08:45 PM
Tested gyrussīs roms with following results...

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/paca.jpg)

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/pacb.jpg)

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: gyruss on August 27, 2010, 12:27:32 PM
mmm that doesn't look too good.  ???


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 01:35:52 PM
Well.....maybe......just maybe......


it would work better if you inserted them the RIGHT WAY ROUND !!!!!!     :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


There's a NOTCH cut out on one side of the EPROMs indicating where pin nr. 1 is. They are clearly pointed in the opposite direction of all the other chips on the board.

The sockets also always have a notch or a dot indicating pin 1. ALWAYS match that, do not ever look at labels.....

I hope you didn't ruin anything on the board now....

(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/pacb/web.jpg?ver=12829097340001)


In general the designers of PCB's tend(ed) to keep the orientation of the chips in one direction. THIS IS NOT A LAW or anything so there are exceptions, but in _general_ the chips usually "point the same way".

As you can see in the picture the notches are all towards the right on this picture. The ROMs you inserted have the notch pointing the other direction !

ALWAYS check what way the chip was inserted before removing it. If you don't remember, check the socket, this should also have a notch or a dot. Even the white printing on the PCB has a "notch" indication.

I fear the EPROMs may be damaged now.

Don't feel too bad about it, I screwed up with a SW prom one time too....it happens to everybody sooner or later. The PROM was toast but luckily Andreas burnt me a new one and there was no further damage on the board.



Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 01:48:23 PM
hmmm...

Turned the E5 and F5 around..... and woila! - no change...

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/pacc.jpg)

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/pacd.jpg)


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 01:54:30 PM
Did you watch the notch of the processor ?

You did remove the processor from the extension board and move it into the socket where the ribbon cable was connected before, right ?

If so, and if the notch is correct, I bet the EPROMs are toast.

Oh and, I _do_ assume the board was working when it still was a Ms.Pac ?


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 02:27:48 PM
I just rechecked the notch on the prosessor, and itīs pointing the same way as the romīs....
And it was working when it was Ms. Pac Man...


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 02:39:40 PM
Try to rebuild it as Ms.Pac. So processor back on the extension board, insert the ribbon cable into the processor socket again and re-install the two EPROMs you removed. Do I dare to say that you should take great care that everything mentioned above is to be put in the right orientation ?

If it works, you are lucky and probably only the new Pac Man Eproms are damaged...

Also, you did put the correct EPROM in the correct location right ? So 5F at 5F and 5E at 5E and not the other way around....


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: gyruss on August 27, 2010, 02:49:59 PM
I also think they are damaged, I tried them on RR his pac man pcb and they didn't work.
I was thinking the problem was his very instable pcb that's why I gave them to you.



Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 03:11:50 PM
I also think they are damaged, I tried them on RR his pac man pcb and they didn't work.
I was thinking the problem was his very instable pcb that's why I gave them to you.




Uhhh..wait a minute, I'm not following......so let me tell you what I was _assuming_ :
I thought that Gyruss did a "group" order with Hobbyroms for Pac Eproms and that one set was for Muerto ? Thus I was assuming that they were GOOD and tested (by hobbyroms) before shipping them.
But now I understand there were already doubts about the EPROMs ?


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 03:37:56 PM
correct! - the deal was if they worked i would transfer some money to gyruss......
but it lookīs like they donīt...

Would you able to re-burn them André??


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: gyruss on August 27, 2010, 03:54:27 PM
There were indeed from hobbyroms, i order 3/4 times before and everything worked great. I guess the problem are the roms and not the pcb.


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 27, 2010, 03:56:59 PM
i just switched back to the Ms. Pac Man, and now i can see sprites, but thereīs something wrong with the graphics....


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 27, 2010, 04:05:38 PM
I think we may assume that the EPROMs were OK before they were inserted the wrong-way-round.
I also think we may assume they are dead now. Yes Michael I can at least try to read them now and once my UV eraser is here I can also clear them and re-program them. I wouldn't keep up my hopes high though and it may be better to burn some new one's. I will see if I have some, regretfully they are the 2516 IIRC and not 2716 but let's see.

Alternatively I can also re-program the Ms. Pac to Pac Man one's of course....

Doesn't sound to good about the PCB....there may be something else hurt  :roll:


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: italiandoh on August 29, 2010, 02:01:08 AM
hmmm...

Turned the E5 and F5 around..... and woila! - no change...

Of course, those eproms are faulty now. It takes just a few seconds to toast them while inserted the wrong way around.

Matteo


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: baritonomarchetto on August 30, 2010, 06:20:20 PM
If i was closer, i could also take a look and re-burn your EPROMs man  :?


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Level42 on August 30, 2010, 07:24:26 PM
Michael, send me the original Ms.Pac EPROMs and I will fix that part of the problems. Not sure about the other board failure though...


Title: Re: Ms. Pac Man to Pac Man?
Post by: Muerto on August 30, 2010, 07:41:28 PM
ok, thanks, but iīm not home the next 14 days  :-\ so it will take some time before you get them!