Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 04:41:15 PM

Title: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 04:41:15 PM
THis is what happened switching on the game
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 04:42:46 PM
THen, following the schematics I shorted J13 in order to have a good reset signal

Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 04:45:59 PM
now I can see "something" but...

https://youtu.be/XAFgd3QXj7g
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 01, 2015, 06:03:50 PM
The bitmap RAM on this game is not readable and thus the game runs even if it's bad. Not sure if that's your only issue, however :(
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 06:15:59 PM
do you suggest to replace all 2102?
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 01, 2015, 06:45:40 PM
If it were me, I'd use a tester to write specific patterns into the bits and then check the output to see which bits (and thus which RAMS) were bad. But you'd need either my Arduino tester, a Fluke with a Z80 pod and 2650 adaptor or to write your own test ROM to do that :)

It also looks like you may have some other issues since you're seeing whole characters all over the place that suggest a program ROM or RAM issue.

If you decide to invest in an Arduino tester, there is a guy on UKVAC who's done a run of 10 PCB's and thus has a lot of spares available. I haven't added support for Dodgem/Invaders to it yet, but I'll try and make a start on that over the Xmas break.

Paul.




Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 07:20:11 PM
wow, I'll think about that. Could be the time to improve my tools  ::)

anyway I changed both CPUs and checked the ROMs. This is all I could do.

Tonight I'll try something else
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: xadhoom on December 01, 2015, 08:57:29 PM
Nice work marco. Is that the board on the cab that i take for you?
I'm also interested in that Arduino tool!!!
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 11:34:18 PM
Yes it is.

Replacing some RAMs  i  can say i m on the right way

https://youtu.be/V-kJ4W3wqtw

I dunno why it resets...
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 01, 2015, 11:43:17 PM
Video is private :)
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 01, 2015, 11:57:50 PM
Done :-)
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 01, 2015, 11:59:58 PM
Still private :)
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 12:14:19 AM
Done done
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 12:16:47 AM
Looking much better. Seems almost there. That with a complete new set of both the video & program RAM?
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 12:19:45 AM
Replaced 5 video rams.
My question is: what is the difference between  5101 and 2101?
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 12:22:26 AM
The 5101 is a CMOS RAM often used for battery backup. 2101 is a fast TTL RAM.
The 5101 has weaker drive and much slower timing than 2101. 2101 likely has more bus loading.
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 12:33:19 AM
Ah. I ve to verify if i have both.
Could they be the cause of the reset?
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 12:34:18 AM
Possibly, yes - I'd replace with the right type and see.
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 01:46:58 AM
10 rams replaced and continues to reset
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 03:55:22 AM
I can see removing EPROM in position 46 nothing changes
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 05:29:49 AM
A bad ROM or bad ROM decoder. There is not much to this hardware, really. It's very simple.
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 11:31:01 AM
EPROM inolved is #5 (position 46). Its CRC is correct (bdae09fe), anyway I burned another one and nothing changed.

So I replaced the LS155 in position 41 (on my PCB is labaled 41/LS156) but nothing changed again.

Actually even if I proceeded quite well during the night now I've no idea what to check. probably the EPROM socked but I don't know what else. TTLs I tested seem to work.

Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 06:51:54 PM
What type of EPROM is it?
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 07:08:26 PM
2708
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 02, 2015, 07:56:09 PM
There are some editions of The Invaders that use PROMS and do not have all the three supplies implemented on the power board to be able to drive a board populated with 2708. The effect of that is that the game doesn't run properly. Therefore, check you have +12, -5 & +5V on your power supply.
Paul.
 
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 08:08:34 PM
Of course i have. In fact my invaders has proms
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 02, 2015, 10:22:55 PM
Grounding pin 6 of chip 7400 in position 12 cars run on the screen but collision are not detected.
I suspect 2101 i replaced is not working. That signal drives 5101_2101 RW

I have several 5101but only one 2101. I used a 5101 instead of the 2101 but nothing changed.

I replaced chips 11 12 13 24
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 03, 2015, 10:09:19 AM
OK I make a break now.
Looking at the TV "Law & Order - Special Victims Unit" all night long I replaced almost everything on the board  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: but nothing changed
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 03, 2015, 05:31:07 PM
Possible ideas are that you have a bad ROM, missing video interrupt or stuck input. Could also be a bad power supply. ROM are RAM is the most statistically likely, however if you're sure they are good... ;)
Paul.
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 03, 2015, 05:45:16 PM
I verified ROM crc multiple times.
I'll update you once I'll receive new 2101
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 04, 2015, 10:21:35 AM
em.... I don't know how to say...
the behavior of my PCB is righ. running the game with mame I can see there isn't any attract mode and after few seconds the game redraw the maze  ::)
this afternoon I'll test board in its cabinet
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 04, 2015, 04:20:13 PM
Hehe :)
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: vernimark on December 06, 2015, 02:33:00 AM
https://youtu.be/Uqw3-dKDqBQ

Credits acelerator and start 2 work.
The rest will be fixed next week
Title: Re: DODGEM PCB troubleshooting
Post by: PaulSwan on December 06, 2015, 05:36:19 PM
Nice, looks almost done now.
Paul.