Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: ckong on June 21, 2013, 02:26:43 AM

Title: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on June 21, 2013, 02:26:43 AM
I need a bunch of them. Yes, they are readily available on ebay etc., but prices are skyhigh (it seems to me that these things are much more expensive than a few years ago) and/or shipping is a killer.

If someone has some available, or can point me to a European store with reasonable prices, that would be great.  :)

(I could of course also use transformers, but converters give me more flexibility and are easier to ´built in´.)


Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Belike on June 21, 2013, 07:15:32 AM
110V to 220?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on June 21, 2013, 07:43:23 AM
http://www.allekabels.nl/230_volt/omvormer/230-naar-110-volt.html
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Luigi on June 21, 2013, 08:11:48 AM
I bought two of these from Arcadeshop.de, but they're out of stock.

(http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-pconv-minwa-mw2p300.jpg)

Search for mw2p300.

Here are others sources:

http://www.thiecom.de/mw2p300.html
http://www.ebay.de/itm/US-Spannungswandler-300-Watt-MW2P300-Anschluss-US-Geraeten-/160733256535
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on June 21, 2013, 08:32:16 AM
if you have a row of 110 volt games, you could take a powerstrip and connect 5 games to one 1000W converter.

That is 26€ per game  ;)

Take this, and its also funky looking :-)

(http://sickoftheradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Lightning-Bolt-Power-Strip.jpg)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Muerto on June 21, 2013, 09:21:55 AM
Apropos, my kid brother gave me an 2000w 230->110v a few years back, I guess i can plug 12+ games to that one without any problem...
But I would go for the 1000w if i where you!
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on June 21, 2013, 09:31:50 AM
Ouch, still so expensive. The powestrip is a good idea, not one for 5 games though, but for two as I want to be able to power the games per pair.

And I found this useful table on KLOV, which tells me that in my case 150W converters will do. http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=149845

It lists 5 of the 7 games for which I need a converter, all around 110W.

So, it seems that I have two options, buy the much cheaper 150W converters or buy the 300W and connect two games on them.  :)

@Muerto, 1000W is overkill, for the reason that I want max two games per outlet.

@Luigi, thanks for the link, could be usefull.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Muerto on June 21, 2013, 10:13:00 AM
@Muerto, 1000W is overkill, for the reason that I want max two games per outlet.

Youre right about that, though, you could still pair the games, and run it from the 1000w, 5 on/off switches with 2 games on each switch...?!
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on June 21, 2013, 10:16:03 AM
I have the one that Luigi recommends, bought it from an old audio-video shop in my village.
The box was covered in dust and the seller really proud to find it back :)

I also need more than one, what do you mean by "1000w is overkill"?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: anunaki on June 21, 2013, 10:40:21 AM
interesting, I need one too for my upcoming DK cab.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on June 21, 2013, 11:07:11 AM
Did you investigate if you could internally switch them over to 230VAC first ?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on June 21, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
Did you investigate if you could internally switch them over to 230VAC first ?

Yes, I did. There is one that can be moved to 230VAC.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on June 21, 2013, 11:37:34 AM
Did you investigate if you could internally switch them over to 230VAC first ?

Yes, I did. There is one that can be moved to 230VAC.

One fixed ;)

Which are the one's that can't be converted. I guess Ms.Pac is one of them ? Pac too I guess.
Some of the US machines don't have the right transformer and then you're indeed depending on a step-down...
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on June 27, 2013, 09:25:00 PM
I bought two of these from Arcadeshop.de, but they're out of stock.

(http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-pconv-minwa-mw2p300.jpg)

Search for mw2p300.

Here are others sources:

http://www.thiecom.de/mw2p300.html
http://www.ebay.de/itm/US-Spannungswandler-300-Watt-MW2P300-Anschluss-US-Geraeten-/160733256535


Thanks for the link, I received 7 of them today from Thiecom. Enough for all my games.

..... at least I thought. I just opened one of the boxes and out came a totally other transformer, brandless with type ST-300, instead of a MW2P300  :( 

Hopefully just a mistake and I already contacted Thiecom.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on November 26, 2013, 11:31:46 AM
For those who might be interested: I just found a stepdown nest in Belgium.
Nice price and the shipping to my place for 5 of them (=19Kg) was only 4€!
http://www.bbiff.com/?221,mw2p300 (http://www.bbiff.com/?221,mw2p300)
They also seem to have nice price on the rest of their electronic parts/tools.

Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on November 26, 2013, 11:51:24 AM
Interesting, aren't you dropping off some monitors in the Netherlands in the upcoming weeks?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on November 26, 2013, 11:53:18 AM
Yes I am  ;)
I can order some converters for you of course.
PM me!
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on November 26, 2013, 04:57:12 PM
I could use one.  :)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on November 26, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
I'll pm you (and Erik) this week Chris.

Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on November 26, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
Wow! Great price! :o Thx for this link!
I've just ordered 3!
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on November 26, 2013, 09:52:42 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on December 08, 2013, 06:39:37 PM
Did you get them fast?
Still didn't got anything so far (ordered more than 2 weeks by now)   :ghost:
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on December 08, 2013, 07:15:25 PM
Yes about 10 working days later.
You should send them an email with the number of your order.
Did you pay via visa and chose a shipping method (kiala,…)?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on December 08, 2013, 07:17:51 PM
Yeps, just sent him a note through their contact page. Selected Kiala also at the order stage.
Wait & see.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on December 08, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
OK.
FYI: The emails I got from them were coming from: BBiFF <contact@bbiff.com> and signed by a guy called "Jonas".
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on December 15, 2013, 05:34:38 PM
Well, still no reply following my messages over the shop form, either via email...and no phone to contact them...   :ghost:
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on December 15, 2013, 06:52:20 PM
PM me your order number and I'll try to contact them too.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Bomjac on December 16, 2013, 11:24:44 PM
Not sure of thr price for you guys,  but a simple 250va 230 / 110 transformer screwed to the base of yor cab between the mains and your original supply in will work just fine.

The spreadsheet quoted earlier refers to us voltages of 110v as opposed to eu of 230v,  so all measured amps can be halved approx.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on December 17, 2013, 12:40:45 AM
Not sure of thr price for you guys,  but a simple 250va 230 / 110 transformer screwed to the base of yor cab between the mains and your original supply in will work just fine.


Fully agreed Bomjac, IMHO the cleanest way to go. It's also great when bringing your cabs to shows, we were stacking up these external transformers during RGE/Eurocade and some were used on cabs that I am positive about they can simply be set to 230V and so don't  even need one !

Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on December 17, 2013, 11:05:46 AM


we were stacking up these external transformers during RGE/Eurocade and some were used on cabs that I am positive about they can simply be set to 230V and so don't  even need one !


Ah, could you tell me which of the cabs below can be set on 230v?

Mario Bros
DK
DKJR
Playchoice 10
Galaga
Ms Pac-Man
Pac-Man
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on December 17, 2013, 12:03:53 PM
Maybe the Nintendo cabs, depends on Power Supply and where they are from (US or Japan).

Ms Pac Man => No

Galaga => very likely no too because it's the same as Ms.Pac generation.

Pac Man => depends if it was for US market only.

AFAIK every Atari can be set to 230VAC.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on December 17, 2013, 02:08:23 PM
Thanks, will take a look tonight.   :)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Laszo on December 17, 2013, 08:27:46 PM


we were stacking up these external transformers during RGE/Eurocade and some were used on cabs that I am positive about they can simply be set to 230V and so don't  even need one !


Ah, could you tell me which of the cabs below can be set on 230v?

Mario Bros
DK
DKJR
Playchoice 10
Galaga
Ms Pac-Man
Pac-Man

Check the schematics or check the transformer or check for an end plug... See pictures. For midway you can expect that they used the same setup for both domestic and international.

Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on December 17, 2013, 09:59:23 PM
No, f.i. my Ms. Pac Man (which, like most in Europe came from the container that Paul imported from the US) really had a transformer that is only suitable for US voltages.

So I added a transformer from 230VAC to 110 VAC to the wooden plank that holds the original 2 transformers. Looks almost standard :)

Of course there is nothing to keep people from mounting the converters inside the cab, either de-cased or not... ;D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on December 18, 2013, 10:47:40 AM
if you want a cool look, you should go un-cased iyam  ;D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Laszo on December 18, 2013, 04:28:34 PM
No, f.i. my Ms. Pac Man (which, like most in Europe came from the container that Paul imported from the US) really had a transformer that is only suitable for US voltages.

So I added a transformer from 230VAC to 110 VAC to the wooden plank that holds the original 2 transformers. Looks almost standard :)

Of course there is nothing to keep people from mounting the converters inside the cab, either de-cased or not... ;D

That's a bummer, the pinballs from bally midway all used a generik transformer.  I like your solution André.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on January 06, 2014, 09:57:34 AM
Yeps, just sent him a note through their contact page. Selected Kiala also at the order stage.
Wait & see.

End of the story  :arrow:

After ordering (and paid) for three converters  at the end of November, I've never got the items, and the seller/shop didn't replied to any my emails or messages via their website form. After few weeks I opened a case via PayPal. Amazing, the seller didn't reply to paypal too!
As consequence, full refund for paypal today.

So avoid like hell this website : http://www.bbiff.com  / BBiFF electronics
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on January 06, 2014, 10:31:54 AM
Sorry again for suggesting this company.  :oops:
It worked fine for me (5 converters) but they also stopped replying when I asked about your order.  ???
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on January 06, 2014, 10:45:14 AM
Sorry again for suggesting this company.  :oops:
It worked fine for me (5 converters) but they also stopped replying when I asked about your order.  ???

No problem Chris, thanks again for your help for trying to solve this issue.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 06, 2014, 01:53:37 PM
Luckily you used PayPal !! I know there's a lot of complaints about them but I've never had any problems. In these cases you are pretty well covered as buyer and of course....there's hardly any serious alternative for paying outside of Europe....
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on January 20, 2014, 04:12:18 PM
I bought four of these, €25 a piece : http://www.omvormer.nu/content/omvormers/230_volt_naar_110_volt/omvormer_230v_-in-_naar_110v_-uit-__max._150_watt

Great service, quick delivery, no complaints.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: DarthNuno on January 20, 2014, 11:21:05 PM
Theoretical 150W, so practically the half! That's the rule commonly applied apparently?...so not sure if that one is powerful enough for our games...  :?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 21, 2014, 12:37:02 AM
I have a bad feeling about those..... I think 150W must be the absolute maximum peak power that it could deliver. I use one of those to power my US Dreamcast but a whole cab....I seriously would advice you to get some bigger ones Pieter, the physical size of such a transformer (which they are) just tell me it's not up to the job...I fear you may blow them up (maybe just a fuse inside) when you power up a cab.

Another thing: allekabels.nl has an almost identical one and that is rated at only 100W.
http://www.allekabels.nl/spanningsomvormer/1741/1054589/spanningsomvormer.html
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Tyrem on January 21, 2014, 09:04:06 AM
I have a bad feeling about those..... I think 150W must be the absolute maximum peak power that it could deliver. I use one of those to power my US Dreamcast but a whole cab....I seriously would advice you to get some bigger ones Pieter, the physical size of such a transformer (which they are) just tell me it's not up to the job...I fear you may blow them up (maybe just a fuse inside) when you power up a cab.

Another thing: allekabels.nl has an almost identical one and that is rated at only 100W.
http://www.allekabels.nl/spanningsomvormer/1741/1054589/spanningsomvormer.html

our cabs definately need more than the 150-version. 250 to 300 will do the job most of the time.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on January 21, 2014, 09:17:05 AM
2cebts from a non tech guy: I've been using the 200W without any issues for : Frogger, Juno First, Centipede, Berzerk, Kung-Fu Master and Donkey Kong.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 21, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
Yes the 200W should be enough for regular cabs.

An average cab cosumes somewhere around 100-130W when it is running. Vector games, esp. color one's will need a bit more.

Now, the one's Pieter bought are 150 W _MAX._

MAX. in this context usually means that it is a PEAK value that it can handle, so a very short moment it can deliver a little bit more than when it's running constantly.

When you turn on a cab, there is a big peak in the power needed because you are starting the electronics up. It's like accelerating a car to 100km/h. This takes a lot of power (fuel) but when you're constantly at 100km/h you need a lot less power/fuel.

200 W should be enough to manage the peak AND the constant wattage of about 100-130VAC.

I am guessing the one's Pieter bought are 100W during normal use (already a high number for such a small unit IMHO) but even so you are running it at the very edge....

Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: anunaki on January 21, 2014, 10:17:45 AM
I have the bigger 300W version, can I put 2 cabs on it (Donkey Kong and a New Astro City) or will that be a no go?

The fuse will blow if it won't hold up, so nothing will be broken I guess
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on January 21, 2014, 10:32:38 AM
i have hacked a extention cord so i can measure what a device draws in amps, i feel the urge to measure my cabinet now  ;D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on January 22, 2014, 11:37:48 AM
The ones i got delivered are a little bit different from those on Andre's picture, i tried one with my EgretII (140W) for about 15 minutes and it worked without any problems.
I'm planning to use these with Nintendo cabs (105W) and pac-man (102W), do you guys still think that 150W isn't enough for these cabs and that the power spike could blow them up?

Also, is there a chance that these will damage my cabs or will it just be the converter that is going to be damaged (i don't know if they have fuses).

(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u471/Gyruss99/IMAG6971.jpg) (http://s1069.photobucket.com/user/Gyruss99/media/IMAG6971.jpg.html)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on January 22, 2014, 12:42:27 PM
the real question is, is it 150 watts @ 230 Volts or 150 watts @ 110 Volt..

i assume its the second though

and is it +- 100 Watts as specification of the cabinet, or the real measured wattage ?

questions questions questions ..   ;D

i really want to hook up my cabinet and measure the current drawn, i just curious

i think i will do it soon
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on January 22, 2014, 01:43:51 PM
Eeeuh, don't know! I used this table from klov that Erik posted:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=149845
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on January 22, 2014, 02:30:48 PM
if it works, it works, just check the temperature of the unit and dont leave it running unattended.

i dont think it will damage your cabinet if it blows.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 22, 2014, 02:35:48 PM
Wattage indications should always be of the secondary side of the transformer.

However, the wattage always stays the same Etienne, wether you run a cab that is 100W at 110VAC or 230VAC, it _still_ consumers that wattage. The only thing that will change is the amount of current.

In a cab that is connected to 220VAC (let's use that number for easy calculation) that is 100W you will have a current of

P=UxI or Wattage=Voltage x Current

so the current will be

I=P/U, in this case: I=100W/110V= 0,91A

The same cab running at 220V will have a current of:
I=P/U, I=100/220 = 0,55A

So the current will be half of that what it will be at 110VAC.

This is also the advantage of using high(er) voltages, there will be less current, so the wires need to be less thick.
That is why the huge transportlines for mains run at 100.000V or higher....

That is ALSO why when you change f.i. an Atari cab from 110VAC to 220VAC  (or 240) setting you should replace the fuse with one that is rated at about half of the original one !!!! This is often forgotten because the machine will work fine. When something goes seriously wrong in the cab the mains fuse will either not burn trough or much later, both can damage the electronics of course.


Bottomline: the amount of energy consumed by the cab stays the same.



Now....back to that transformer:

Yes that already looks a lot bigger than the one pictured on the site. This should be OK.
The Wattage ratings of cabs is usually also somewhat exaggerated (max. value) to be on the safe side.).

Most important: check how warm it gets after about an hour or so. IMHO if it stays acceptable (you can leave your hand on it for "forever") than it should be fine.

One note:
These cheap kind of transformers are all "autotransformers".  I have already explained the disadvantage of those before here (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1481.msg15436#msg15436)

 There is a _very small_ risk that IF the isolation  of the transformer will burn through for whatever reason, you will put 230VAC into the machine that expects 110VAC and you can figure out the damage that will happen.

However, true isolated transformers are way more expensive and are not found in this set-up (They are loose transformers).
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on January 22, 2014, 02:57:57 PM
Cool, thanks for the info (although some of it is abracadabra for me ;))
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on January 27, 2014, 10:38:23 AM
Okay, had it running for 1.5 hours on my egret (140W) and the brick was warm but save to hold in your hands..
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on January 27, 2014, 05:12:24 PM
Okay, had it running for 1.5 hours on my egret (140W) and the brick was warm but save to hold in your hands..

Better safe then sorry, send back the Egret to the previous owner!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 27, 2014, 05:30:36 PM
Are you telling me those modern plastic things are not switchable to 230 VAC ??
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 27, 2014, 05:36:42 PM
O well, doesn't matter anyway, I found the PERFECT solution for all 230V to 110V worries:

https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5148.msg75525#msg75525
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Superully on January 27, 2014, 05:56:06 PM
for me, a GOOD stepdown transformer is still the easiest solution for our US110-EU230-problem. find a nice cosy place inside the cab, connect it, play! simple as that!!!
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 27, 2014, 06:13:30 PM
Yeah, you never move them anyway.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Superully on January 27, 2014, 06:32:27 PM
Yeah, you never move them anyway.

eh ... what?
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: level42 on January 27, 2014, 06:39:25 PM
Your cabs.Well not once they're upstairs  ;D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Tyrem on February 01, 2014, 02:16:47 PM
Your cabs.Well not once they're upstairs  ;D


na.. he is not moving them. we are. :D
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Superully on February 01, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
na.. he is not moving them. we are. :D

;D time to move some more ...  ;)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: gyruss on February 02, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
I had the step downs running for about 12 hours last Friday, they all survived.  :)
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: ckong on July 08, 2014, 03:41:11 PM
@chris, are these still available? I could use some.
Title: Re: WTB - stepdown converters, 300W or 350W
Post by: Q*ris on July 08, 2014, 03:43:42 PM
If you're talking about BBiFF electronics: avoid them!
I was apparently lucky to receive my order but Bruno never received anything and another friend had the same problem around the same period.