Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle

General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Muerto on April 10, 2013, 04:49:14 PM

Title: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 10, 2013, 04:49:14 PM
Im about to explode, I have a working MC PCB, with a working AR2, and a newly refurbished G07 chassis, and still it takes the best of me, what the hell is my next move??
I can have a stable picture, but it seems like i have it spread out 5 times or so...
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck01.jpg)

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck03.jpg)

The dials on the chassis..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck02.jpg)

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck04.jpg)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: level42 on April 10, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
Looks like sync problems.
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 10, 2013, 05:24:37 PM
Looks like sync problems.

Where is the potentiometer for SYNC?  ::) :D
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 10, 2013, 08:57:28 PM
is the board working on another monitor ?
is another board working on this monitor ?

Sync problems are not always a pot problem or a monitor problem, it could also be a board issue.

i would try the above methods to isolate the source of your problem
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: level42 on April 10, 2013, 09:04:27 PM
Yup, good start.

Hard to see from the pictures but it looks like the picture is "shifting left and right" ?

Following the famous G07 flow chart you should check X302, X306 and maybe have to replace IC501.

I'm not going to tell you where the pots are, you're a big boy, you can find manuals and read them  ;D ;D ;D ;D


(Or look at the names of the pots on the PCB.......  ;D ;D ;D)

Maybe you should look for something that will HOLD the picture still..........
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 11, 2013, 09:41:29 AM
Also, if it turns out to be a monitor problem, you state it has a refurbished chassis, but those pots look very old.

I dont think they make these kind of pots anymore.

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck04.jpg)

It could very well be that the pots need replacements by the modern version:

(http://www.allekabels.nl/product_images/gd_new_alleka-4975-main-Instel-PotmeterInstel-PotmeterInstel-PotmeterInste.jpg)

now, i am not saying that is the source of your problem.

first narrow it down from where the problem is comming and focus on that.
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 11, 2013, 03:30:12 PM
Yup, good start.

Hard to see from the pictures but it looks like the picture is "shifting left and right" ?

Following the famous G07 flow chart you should check X302, X306 and maybe have to replace IC501.

I'm not going to tell you where the pots are, you're a big boy, you can find manuals and read them  ;D ;D ;D ;D


(Or look at the names of the pots on the PCB.......  ;D ;D ;D)

Maybe you should look for something that will HOLD the picture still..........

Yeah yeah, mister smarty pants - I have turned any pod that is turnable on the chassis, and nothing seems to work..

Also, if it turns out to be a monitor problem, you state it has a refurbished chassis, but those pots look very old.

I dont think they make these kind of pots anymore.

(http://www.opdenkelder.com/muerto/arc/MCfuck04.jpg)

It could very well be that the pots need replacements by the modern version:

(http://www.allekabels.nl/product_images/gd_new_alleka-4975-main-Instel-PotmeterInstel-PotmeterInstel-PotmeterInste.jpg)

now, i am not saying that is the source of your problem.

first narrow it down from where the problem is comming and focus on that.

When you do/order a G07 rebuild kit, you dont get the pots, only resistors etc....
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 11, 2013, 03:43:11 PM
and thats why they are the old ones, and may be rotten to the bone  ;D

really, try the earlier proposed methods to narrow the problem down to one of the two (board or monitor)

the pots may very well also be 100% fine  ;)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 11, 2013, 04:02:00 PM
Just took a look at the pinout of missile command and the manual of the G07 monitor.

It looks like both have separate sync, but googling a bit more, i stumbled upon this :

beside that, what happens when you combine the sync wires ?
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 11, 2013, 04:29:03 PM
Just took a look at the pinout of missile command and the manual of the G07 monitor.

It looks like both have separate sync, but googling a bit more, i stumbled upon this :

beside that, what happens when you combine the sync wires ?

Ahhhh, maby i should give it a try - a guy on KLOV mentioned the same.... THANKS!!!!
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 11, 2013, 05:06:52 PM
Nope  :-\ didnt help, still the same picture as before... even with both SYNC wires OFF the board; still the same picture as before..... Yep - I definitely have a SYNC problem.... maby on the PCB??

-EDIT-
Just tried with anothe MC PCB, though it didnt work, itdisplayed a red screen that behaved the same way as the working one....
Tomorrow when i get home from work ill re-solder the whole chassis - just to be sure!
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Superully on April 11, 2013, 05:14:48 PM
you said you had a working pcb in your first sentence, michael. has it been tested anywhere else and was working then? or are you just ASSUMING it is working because you have a picture?
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 11, 2013, 05:22:46 PM
you said you had a working pcb in your first sentence, michael. has it been tested anywhere else and was working then? or are you just ASSUMING it is working because you have a picture?

I can see the picture - though spread out 5 times on the screen, and if i hit the start button i can play the game... - I wish you lived closer, then i would stop by so i could test them...
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 11, 2013, 08:41:32 PM
what you mean by "even with both SYNC wires OFF the board" ?

both wires disconnected (yellow and white) ?
if they are disconnected, it is normal that its out of sync, since there is no sync signal entering the chassis.

if its connected and does the same, then it could be that your board is not sending a sync signal.

another point is that you say that the broken board with the red image does the same, so or you have two boards with a sync issue or  you have 2 boards without a sync issue and the problem is in your monitor

you also stated this earlier : "When you do/order a G07 rebuild kit, you dont get the pots, only resistors etc...." , which makes me asking you this question, did you do the rebuild, and did you have the issue before the rebuild ?

what happens when you hook up that monitor to a "know" working board ?
(in other words, try to connect it to a working game you have  ;) )

do you have another game that uses also a G7 so a easy testswap can be made ?
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: level42 on April 11, 2013, 08:50:15 PM
Where is the potentiometer for SYNC?  ::) :D

You _did_ ask this question my friend ! :)

By the way, how are Danish summers ? We might be heading your direction this year ;)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 12, 2013, 06:16:23 AM
Where is the potentiometer for SYNC?  ::) :D

You _did_ ask this question my friend ! :)


Youre right, i did, but i found it funny that it had the V.HOLD label on the chassis and not the H.SYNC - that was called H.FREQ - yes, Im _VERY_ green in this area (and BTW not looking forward to get the SW Ampliphone working....)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: level42 on April 12, 2013, 07:12:30 AM
Hah, the Amplifone is a piece of cake compared to any raster or even vector monitor  ;D

Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 12, 2013, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Level42
By the way, how are Danish summers ? We might be heading your direction this year ;)

Hæh, the Danish summer is a gamble, but, i hope with the winter we had this year, its going to be good! - and, you and your family is very welcome here and in The Shed!!!
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: level42 on April 12, 2013, 05:03:52 PM
I guess they are very much like Dutch summers :)

Cool, that will be a nice attraction to add to the list of "must visit" ;)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 12, 2013, 05:07:24 PM
I guess they are very much like Dutch summers :)

Cool, that will be a nice attraction to add to the list of "must visit" ;)

 :oops: :oops: :oops:
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on April 15, 2013, 12:25:51 PM
and ? any progress ?
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on April 17, 2013, 05:57:39 AM
Havent had the time to test further.. ill of course keep you posted on any progress  :)
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on September 02, 2013, 06:25:08 AM
Better late than never.....
On friday I tried mending my CC - it plays blind atm, so no fun in that..
Unscrewed the back, and hey! - chassis is the same as MC - G07-CBO, so I took my working (bought working) chassis from my MC and put into the CC, and turned on the power....... Same flickering as on the MC, so this concludes:
1. Chassis is broken.
2. MC pcb IS working.
3. Need to rep chassis - H-Sync+V-Sync
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Etienne MacGyver on September 02, 2013, 06:40:03 AM
Well, at least you know now where the problem is, and it also means besides your CC, that the MC board is probably also working  ;)

So lets fix that Chassis !  ;D
Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Laszo on September 02, 2013, 08:20:05 AM
Did you try a known good source? A pcb or a test signal.

Title: Re: Missile Command monitor problems......
Post by: Muerto on September 02, 2013, 09:07:36 AM
The CC has a working video signal, thats why i knew that it was the chassis that was broken :)