Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: anunaki on January 15, 2013, 08:26:49 PM
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Hi,
I got myself a Konami Scramble board that seems to miss some stuff on it.
The board looks OK and starts up with scrambled picture (uhum)
I mark the place I think roms and something else is missing
(http://i49.tinypic.com/aw58a1.jpg)
the upper board looks complete
(http://i48.tinypic.com/w8rjf6.jpg)
I hope you guys can help me ID the missing stuff, so I can complete the board
Greetz, Patrick
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When a socket is empty, it does not always mean that its missing something for the game.
it could very well be the case that there is nothing missing ;)
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i know, but I found some very small picture that had 2 eproms on the empty spots.
I'not sure about the white socket
i haven't found a manual or good pic yet :-\
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The big one is a Z80A processor, the small ones are B2708 MOS I.C. 1024X8 eproms.
I have the pcb and the manual also, if you need pics or anything else, just let me know. ;)
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That's great news, I have quite some brand new Z80 chips and some used also. Hopefully the right one is also there.
I really like to have something that has the names of the roms on it (manual or pic). It will be a challence to get the right eproms though.
Tx :spaceace:
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These eproms are quite common as far as I know and the datas are downloadable from romnation.net.
I will send you some pics tomorrow. ;)
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I'm sure I can get the eproms, I already got the roms
but to prgramm a B2708, that's the hard part
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This pcb have no 2708 rom's
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(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Bosiwq81Whw/UPZ1JE9GAuI/AAAAAAAAHBc/HKHv3sQiPoI/s640/Scramble.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w4AVSMja_Fc/UPZ1Jr8h8RI/AAAAAAAAHBg/VVHrm5FJYn8/s640/Scramble1.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_RK4GDdYeLE/UPZ1J2-eq6I/AAAAAAAAHBo/tuQT1blOUEU/s640/Scramble2.jpg)
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If it needs 2708s (although I trust Robin's word) you can still use 2716s with a little modding....
I have 2716 and 2732 on stock.
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Thanks Bela,
The Lay-out in that schematic differs from the one of the PCB in my picture, doesn't it. I see row 2 and 2X in the schematics, maybe this is a different view of the same row?
(Is this maybe the Zaccaria Scramble version (I have that PCB also, but I'm not at home right now))
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Yep, Zaccaria has its own boardset:
this is what is on paul swan's site, that picture looks like the one in the manual:
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Let me check in the afternoon, I have 2 pcbs, a Konami and Stern. 8)
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Robin was right, the Konami version has the TMS 2516 eproms (labelled as Stern) and a D780C processor which is a replacement of the Z80 afaik.
The Stern pcb has the same eproms but there is a Z80A processor.
Some pics from the Konami pcb:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lG95RykAyaU/UPa_vF3e7UI/AAAAAAAAHB8/isNn-DqT75A/s512/Scramble%2520006.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L6pZUfyJYXc/UPa_v8P9ZRI/AAAAAAAAHCE/xFWz8FIuncg/s720/Scramble%2520004.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-erBvzMYR9Lo/UPa_vZYHsiI/AAAAAAAAHCA/k6SY5PwOzNU/s720/Scramble%2520003.jpg)
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Thanks alot Bela
Can I put a Z80 in the socket instead of this D780C?
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Thanks alot Bela
Can I put a Z80 in the socket instead of this D780C?
Yeah it is the clone of it, a confirmation from our experts would be nice though. ;)
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Yes you can :D
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEC_%C2%B5PD780C
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Tx Robin
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Now I'm looking for a manual of schematics of the konami PCBs
i know (from MAME) this are the ROMS:
c01s.6e
c1.5h
c2.5f
ot1.5c
ot2.5d
ot3.5e
s1.2d
s2.2e
s3.2f
s4.2h
s5.2j
s6.2l
s7.2m
s8.2p
Tomorrow I'll check the PCB if I can find some clues
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I feel really stupid now
I just figured out the ROM names are just the location on the PCB, ie 2N
:o
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Yeah, you will need 2M and 2 P. ;)
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Something is strange with this PCB. It must be Konami Scramble, the pics are 100% accurate the same.
But instead of 2516s the are 2716s and 2732s on my board.
On the top board (L-1200 2B) there are 3 2716 eproms on 5C, 5D and 5E
On the bottom board (L-1200-1B) there are 2 2716 eproms on 5H and 5F
And also 5 2732 eproms on 2D 2E 2F 2H 2/J 2L
And there are the empty spots on 2M and 2P
It fits perfectly with this description of the Scramble Konami (or Stern, it's got the same lay-out).
http://www.solvalou.com/subpage/arcade_roms/S/scramble
according to the comparison Belike did it must be 2516 eproms
is it possible the 2716 and 2732 are used instead of 2516? Or could it be some kind of conversion?
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As the Stern board at least has the same type of EPROMS on it as the Konami, I'm reading the Stern manual:
2C 2E 2F 2H 2J 2L 2M 2P 2716 eprom
5H 5F 2716 eprom
5C 5D 5E 2716 eprom
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Checked my Konami pcb again, on the top board, there is a 2716 in E5, all the rest of the eproms in both boards are 2516.
Seems like my E5 has a different sticker than the othres, maybe it was replaced.
I'M not sure, but maybe 2716 and 2516 will be also work in your pcb or you can copy my setup, it works fine. ;)
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yeah, seems like the best thing to do
I read on some websites you can use 2716s instead of 2516s (or other way around). But I also read you can't ???
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Maybe this helps....I'm getting confused all the time too...
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/80532-25-what-diff-eprom-eprom#t513989
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Great link!! Tx
Belike has the TMS 2516s on his board, so those are basicly the same as Intel 2716 (or industry standard 2716)
While reading this, I bought myself a batch of 9 TMS2516 eproms, that can always come in handy.
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...and now I have to check what I actually have here ;D ;D
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Anunaki just left the building ;D
We removed one of the "strange" 2732's and read it with my EPROM programmer and checked the file with ROMIDENT (http://romident.coinopflorida.com). This has never let me down before ID-ing ROMs but this time, it came up with nothing !
(Yes some checksums and sigs, but not which game it was from......)
So we tried another, same result.
So we figured, let's read one of the 2716s and this time we were more lucky. It ID-ed successfully as .......Super Cobra ! :)
Turns out this runs on the same hardware, so the board was a Super Cobra, not Scramble.
Anyway, the 2732s must have been put in there "to fill up some spots" or something like that, because they definitely do not belong there...
We removed all of them and burnt all EPROMs 2516s with the Scramble ROM files we had downloaded.
And so, now it is up to Patrick to try the board-set. I really hope it will work !!!
Oh, the ROM set of Scramble also has a file for a PROM (C01s.6e) that is only 32 bytes. There is a "hand-stamped" text saying SS1 on that PROM on the board. It is not socketed so I hope it will be the same for Super Cobra and Scramble. I guess there is color info in there ? This site says it should be the same for the various games running on this hardware: http://www.solvalou.com/subpage/arcade_roms/S/scramble so we have good hope for that ;)
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It's not working, It still comes up scrambled >:(
I read something that's makes me think the ROMs are not swappable:
rivers/scramble.c shows
this memory map:
AM_RANGE(0x0000, 0x3fff) AM_READ(MRA8_ROM)
AM_RANGE(0x4000, 0x4bff) AM_READ(MRA8_RAM)
AM_RANGE(0x4c00, 0x4fff) AM_READ(galaxian_videoram_r) /* mirror */
AM_RANGE(0x5000, 0x50ff) AM_READ(MRA8_RAM)
AM_RANGE(0x7000, 0x7000) AM_READ(watchdog_reset_r)
AM_RANGE(0x7800, 0x7800) AM_READ(watchdog_reset_r)
AM_RANGE(0x8100, 0x8103) AM_READ(ppi8255_0_r)
AM_RANGE(0x8110, 0x8113) AM_READ(ppi8255_0_r) /* mirror for Frog */
AM_RANGE(0x8200, 0x8203) AM_READ(ppi8255_1_r)
while drivers/scobra.c shows this one:
AM_RANGE(0x0000, 0x7fff) AM_READ(MRA8_ROM)
AM_RANGE(0x8000, 0x8bff) AM_READ(MRA8_RAM)
AM_RANGE(0x8c00, 0x8fff) AM_READ(galaxian_videoram_r) /* mirror */
AM_RANGE(0x9000, 0x90ff) AM_READ(MRA8_RAM)
AM_RANGE(0x9800, 0x9803) AM_READ(ppi8255_0_r)
AM_RANGE(0xa000, 0xa003) AM_READ(ppi8255_1_r)
AM_RANGE(0xb000, 0xb000) AM_READ(watchdog_reset_r)
You can see that Super Cobra has twice as much ROM space available,
which moved the RAM, watchdog and interface chips around. So the
normal Scramble and Super Cobra ROMs are not interchangeable.
the good thing is I had a great evening with Level42 :)
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I also found that there in fact are a couple of 2732 roms on the supercobra board and there are actually 2 less ROMs on it then on the scramble PCB
So could it be the ROMs were just fine?, hmmmmmm
Sometimes things are not the way they appear to be ::)
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Too bad !
At least we now know what it is.....a Super Cobra board...
Still very weird that the 2732s were not (correctly) ID-ed......bed time now, but we should have a look at the available MAME Rom-set(s) for Super Cobra.....maybe this _WAS_ that ultra-rare special version I already jokingly suggested !
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http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=94677 says this:
Originally Posted by nomore25s View Post
So based on the above post, it appears that I can't put Super Cobra ROMs in a Scramble boardset, is that a correct interpretation?
Not w/o significant hacking.
so it is basicly the same game, ony not a rocket, but a chopper, and they are not just a simple romswap as i understand correctly.
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Etienne, it looks similar, not exact the same
I'll take my time to check the manual, but at 1st look it really seems like the correct (type of) roms were actually on the board
As a newby I'm learning a good lesson: When you think you know what the board is, 1st make sure you know what the board is.
I'm going to get me that Batronix device ASAP I guess so I can read and programm the chips myself.
Thanks again Andre :)
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My Batronix programmer arrived today. I burned the Super Cobra roms again, but......... I made a mistake.
So now I have to erase 3 2732s before I can burn them again >:(
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....and the cheap Chinese eraser didn't arrive as quickly as the Batronix I assume ;D
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nope ;D