Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: level42 on December 04, 2012, 08:34:48 PM
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http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/BX32/eprom-programmer.html
Looks a shit-load better quality than any of the Willem-stuff from the far-east.
I know these do the trick, but what I like about this one:
- Made in Germany
- Sturdy housing
- EXCELLENT software which runs on Windows, Linux AND Mac !!
- free software + updates every 2 weeks
- has a HUGE table of known devices
It's cheaper to buy it here though:
http://such002.reichelt.nl/?SID=13UL5PI38AAAIAABJmT7wabdb78785f58ef2bcb74b278d4a6a23c;ACTION=446
Really thinking about getting this. Yes it's a lot more expensive than a Willem, but this I can put next to my Mac, and program and read EPROMs every second of the day, with very comfy software and a reliable device.
Look at the video:
http://www.batronix.com/flash/pee/pee.html
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nice
I'm looking for a eprom programmer, this one looks solid and the price is not that bad.
Maybe we can buy 2 in one time too save on transport? I think you come to nozomi in 2 weeks?
I have one question: can you also errase eproms with such device? Or do you always need UV light for that?
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Yes you always need UV light, at least for EPROMs. EEPROMS can be electrically erased but you normally don't need a programmer for that.
Yes I am planning on coming to the "dark side" ;D ;D ;D
I am not 100% sure yet...gotta check some funding ;) ;)
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For the eraser, I did go the extremely cheap way:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=eprom%20eraser&_sop=15&_clu=2&_fcid=146&_localstpos=2984%20GC&_stpos=2984%20GC&gbr=1
Since we don't do loads of EPROMs, this is fine. Never use it unattended though, I opened one and well....it wouldn't pass KEMA-keur or any other European safety checks for sure ;D
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For the eraser, I did go the extremely cheap way:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=eprom%20eraser&_sop=15&_clu=2&_fcid=146&_localstpos=2984%20GC&_stpos=2984%20GC&gbr=1
Since we don't do loads of EPROMs, this is fine. Never use it unattended though, I opened one and well....it wouldn't pass KEMA-keur or any other European safety checks for sure ;D
exactely my setup. :) got everyting two weeks ago.
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;D ;D
just let me know if you want to go for it......
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For the eraser, I did go the extremely cheap way:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=eprom%20eraser&_sop=15&_clu=2&_fcid=146&_localstpos=2984%20GC&_stpos=2984%20GC&gbr=1
Since we don't do loads of EPROMs, this is fine. Never use it unattended though, I opened one and well....it wouldn't pass KEMA-keur or any other European safety checks for sure ;D
exactely my setup. :) got everyting two weeks ago.
Man such a shame...
If you buy 5 at one time you get a nice rebate.....can we get 3 more people wanting one ?
I also noticed that the one's from Reichelt seem to not be the latest version (II) but the I version (unless they advertise them incorrectly)
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The picture also shows the "I" version. I don't really know the difference
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It's mentioned on the website right here:
http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/BX32/eprom-programmer.html
But let me C&P that for you....
BX32 Batupo II - New version available now!
With the BX32 Batupo II a new version of the popular programming device BX32 Batupo is available now. The following improvements were implemented compared with the first version:
Doubled firmware memory size: The BX32 Batupo II has enough place for future improvements and enlarged chip support.
Improve pin driving possibilities: The BX32 Batupo II can drive more pins with supplying and programming voltages as its predecessor.
Improved chip supply: The supply and programming voltages of the chips can now be set more accurately.
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had this one also, but then changes to 32P, because this one support Serial EEPROM (24, 25, 45, 93, 95, ...), which I needed somehow.
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I consider to buy a programmer, but I think that I first will go for the Willem 5, it´s damn cheap and I have never done eprom programming before, so I first want to get the hang of it before deciding to buy a more expensive one. And how often will I use it? Not that often I guess, it is mainly just for fun, maybe to try out some hacks or so, besides the occasional rebuning for board repair sakes.
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That one only got a Parallel Port, otherwise i would've bought it already becaus of it's price
I don't have it on my (laptop) computers. The USB interface version is a lot more expensive >:(
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I use the Willem 5, it's ok!
Not confortable but working.
The only mess are the non working 25xx eproms, for old PCBs
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Did you encounter any problems with using the Willem ?
I've read about a lot of problems when programming 2732s etc.
One note about the Batronix: it won't program 2708 (mainly 8080 hardware, think of SI etc.) and it won't program 2532's. These EPROMs require negative voltages to be programmed and the Batronix doesn't provide that. (Like many affordable modern day programmers by the way ).
It _DOES_ READ the 2532s so you can still verify if they are OK using ROMident.
There's an interesting discussion about this going on at UKvac: http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic332190_post779032.html#779032
I am still interested in it though. There are ways to use 2716's instead of 2708. Programming 2532's will remain a problem though, although I still have my Needham that will do them....
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There is also this little fellow
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225 (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225)
it supports the ones you mention without adapter:
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/mcumall_TrueUSBWillemsupportICs.asp (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/mcumall_TrueUSBWillemsupportICs.asp)
if you need to programm 16 bit stuff, there is an adapter package
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Willem 5 read and program 2516 an 2532 also on 25 volt
built a adapter
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/mspacrom.html
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Uh....is that all there is to it ? Thought the 2532 also needs a negatieve power ?
If so, this will work with any programmer....
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Pfffff, checked the datasheets of both 2532 and 2732 and yes, both only require the +25V programming supply....no negative supplies. Building an adapter like that is a no-brainer, so that leaves only the obscure 08 unsupported but there are plenty of ways to use 2716s instead.
So funny as for all the negativity on the UKvac forum I had almost dropped the idea of getting one and was now fiddling with the ancient laptop that Etienne gave me again....(which works nicely by the way, the only real trouble is that you will have to transfer the files through floppy to a PC that supports Internet.....
I was already thinking about a way to hook up that laptop to the Internet somehow using an Ms- DOS browser....(yes they exist).....
OK, Im back to square one. I want the Batronix, anyone interested in the Needham EMP-10 ?
(with supporting laptop if Etienne doesn't object to it ;);) )
P.S. THANK YOU ROBIN !!
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Andre, i'm interested in the Needham EMP-10 depending on price thanks ;)
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Sent you an e-mail Pascal !
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Thanks Robin, i will try the adapter when burning my DK Roms
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Andre, I have some questions:
Is a 2708 eprom the same as a 27080 eprom?
What do you think about this one: http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225 (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4225)
I have doubts buying one where I need to make an adapter for 100+ EU, but I don't really know enough about it to make a good decision.
All I know is that the Batronix is fine for my MK2 revision roms, but it's not for i.e. DK
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The one you link to is a "Willem" programmer and I hear very different reports about them. Some say they work fine, some say they suck.....
That adapter is not going to cost 100 Euro for sure !
Oh and no a 2708 is a really ancient EPROM from the time of B/W games like SI
27080 is MUCH later and bigger....
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I mean the device cost me 100+ and I need to make some adapter myself risking to blow it up
The first thing I want to do with it is OK, I have the needed EPROMS to programm 4 different MK2 revisions.
On the other hand, I don't want to buy some Chinese crap.
I think about it and get back to you.
ISD there any change we will get 5 people to buy one?
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anyone interested in the Needham EMP-10 ?
(with supporting laptop if Etienne doesn't object to it ;);) )
no objection, i gave it to you, its now yours to do what you like with it ;)
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One more question about the adapter: how does the software/ device know you'll be programming a 2532 or 2732 eprom if not supporting them?
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You just cheat and tell it that it's a 2732 :)
Although its always best to enter exactly the right brand and type, the parameters will differ only slightly per device. There is always (at least in my Needham software) a way to select "Generic" types and so far this has worked fine for me.
I could build two adapters of course, that is, if I decide to get one.....
Because of a good discussion about this subject on the UKvac forum I was triggered to have another look at my current situation.....
I kinda left the Needham project after having experimented a LOT to get it running under some version of Windows, so that I could have USB support for a. USB memory stick or even Internet access. this was on a laptop I still had around and fixed with a screen from Etienne. However, I never got it to work reliably with that set-up. So, yet again Etienne came to to the rescue and have me a ancient Toshiba 1910 laptop (is that the year of release ? ;);) ) to give that a try. It basically ran Windows.....95 or 98 maybe, but the basis was DOS.
I actually reformatted the HD and installed just DOS. And apparantly that's where I left the project.....
So....I downloaded the latest Needham EMP-10 software and copied it to a floppy. I first thought I would have to use my current (work) laptop to hookup the USB floppy drive, but to my surprise, OS X still supports floppies via a USB drive, so that was one big hurdle less for me.
ALso I was a bit worried that the Toshiba's internal floppy drive would be DD and not HD, but it worked just fine. Connected the Needham and started the software. It recognizes the Needham without problem, but this also worked with the Windows machine I had tried before.....
So, now I still have to test the set up, will do so tonight. If this set-up is working reliably than this is surely workable for me. The only hassle is exchanging ROM files using floppies and of course the extra laptop itself, but it's surprisingly small and boots up lighting quickly with DOS ;)
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(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/lap1.jpg)
Its indeed small, but why not keep that for "mobile" services, and just hookup a pc under the workbench ?
so much easier with a big screen for internet while working
just make it dual boot, or perhaps dosbox supports passthrough parallel ?
I know VMware does, so you can always run vmware and dos inside, that saves rebooting for burning ;)
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It's always better to talk things trough before just buying stuff, I'm already happy we discussed all this :)
I hope for you this will work out just fine with your current setup.
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(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/lap1.jpg)
Its indeed small, but why not keep that for "mobile" services, and just hookup a pc under the workbench ?
so much easier with a big screen for internet while working
just make it dual boot, or perhaps dosbox supports passthrough parallel ?
I know VMware does, so you can always run vmware and dos inside, that saves rebooting for burning ;)
Yeah I guess my old PC will end up there BUT, the problem is that this is probably too fast and/or the parallel port maybe not a "true enough" parallel port for the Needham, even if I'd run totally under DOS.
it's not like I read/program EPROMS everyday so I think if the Toshiba works Im happy.
My old PC still has a floppy drive too and of course I can hook that one up to Internet without much trouble....
...and that Tosh is kinda neat, very retro....
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I dont know where the HDD is located in that unit, but with a miniata or sata to USB it will show as a standard usb disk on another pc.
That could also be a option to transfer the roms in bulk to the hdd.
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Mmm, the rom files are only a couple of kB each. Even on an old 1.44 MB floppy you can scram LOADS.of ROMs on one disk, but that will hardly ever be necessary...
Well, maybe I can hook up a RS-232 cable and use Kermit to transfer the files between the two PCs..... LOL !
I did read that someone had succes by running a VMWARE Linux session on a Windows PC and in that Linux session he ran a DOS emulator.....and that worked while running the Needham EMP-10 software directly didn't work, even in a DOS-Box......kinda funny.
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serial cable is an option, or good old Fastlynx (i might have the cable still here)
much more reliable than floppy ;)
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Of course....
I just succesfully burned a test 2716 without any problems. It's not exactly fast but WDF....as long as it works and is reliable.....
Sooooooo, I wanted to do some REAL stuff and pulled out the PCB from my Asterock. The reason ? John on the Vecttor list figures out a small patch for 1 of the EPROMs to make the game "Freeplay". This would make it possible to remove the credit button on the coindoor so Of course I wanted to try it.
Only two bytes need to be changed.....
When I looked at the PCB I had a bad feeling......that is a whole lot of EPROMs there !
8 pieces.....and Asteroids isn't such a big game......so I feared.....and Indeed: the board uses 2708 EPROMs.:(....
I had to think of a very famous Alanis Morissette song........
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Andre, not sure if this is a good one. But I post it anyway:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/EPROM-Programmer-Universal-Adapter-Commodore-PET-ROM-MPS6540-2708-2513-2332-2364-/261097867410?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccaa54892#ht_771wt_1397
|It says you can programm 2708's with it. It says you can programm all the old stuff with it. It's an adapter, so you'll need an programmer. But you already have one.
Maybe it's something for you
Greetz, Patrick
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Thanks for the tip Patrick, but with these things you gotta read very carefully exactly what it can do.....
It can _read_ those EPROMs, but nowhere it says that it can program them....which is also pretty much impossible....
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Ow ok, i assumed it was a programmer adapter and wanted to tip you so you could check it out.
Too bad it isn't.
Can you explain why it is impossible?
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You can use 2716 to replace 2708's look it up on the internet.
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Ow ok, i assumed it was a programmer adapter and wanted to tip you so you could check it out.
Too bad it isn't.
Can you explain why it is impossible?
Well, maybe not impossible but it would require you to apply +12V and -5V to certain pins of the 2708 during programming. You'd at least have to bend out those pins on the 2708 so they won't contact the ZIF socket of the programmer. Next you need to apply these voltages externally. However, I'm not sure if this can be done safely and I have found no info about doing this except for reading 2708's.....
Thanks Leo incidentally I was already working on it :)
I tried it yesterday in my Asterock but it stayed frightfully dead....
I have a feeling the info I got how to re-wire certain pins was not completely correct.
I've found different info about this on different sites....
SO.....I studied the datasheets of the 2708 and 2716 and also the Asterock Schematics (all found on www.andysarcade.de, very nice :))
Using this info I came to this:
Maybe someone (Andreas ?) can confirm what I think it should be is correct or not:
1) Pin 18 is "Program" on 2708, /EP on 2716. The 2708 and 2716 manual say this line must be Low for read operation. The Asterock schematics are not fully clear, but it looks like all pin 18's on the EPROMs are tied to GND already (WILL CHECK THIS), so this would be OK to leave as is.
2) Pin 19 is Vdd (+12V) on the 2708. It is address line A10 on the 2716. This has to be lifted and tied to GND (pin 12) if the data is in the lower half of the 2716, or to Vcc (+5V, pin 24) if the data is in the higher half of the 2716 address space.
With a switch between these two I could make it possible to make the free-play switchable, but I see very little reason for it....
3) Pin 20 is /CS-PE on the 2708, /G on the 2716. These seem to work as Chip Select for reading on both 2708 and 2716 as far as I can see, so in theory this could stay untouched too....
4) Pin 21 is Vbb (-5V) and Vpp on the 2716. We definitely don't want -5V anywhere on the 2716 so this leg should be lifted. The 2716 datasheet's table says it should be at Vcc (+5V) for reading so it should be bridged to pin 24
5) all the other pins are matching so can be unchanged.
Summing it up, for Asterock I'd need to:
a) lift pin 19 and short to pin 12
b) lift pin 21 and short to pin 24
But first I'lll put back in the old 2708 to see if my board actually still works... :-\
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With a switch between these two I could make it possible to make the free-play switchable, but I see very little reason for it....
Why not just implement that as a jumper, you never know where your games will end up if you let it go some day.
maybe the next owner likes to coin up ::)
It does give that real feeling of arcade playing to throw in a coin / token ..
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With a switch between these two I could make it possible to make the free-play switchable, but I see very little reason for it....
Why not just implement that as a jumper, you never know where your games will end up if you let it go some day.
maybe the next owner likes to coin up ::)
It does give that real feeling of arcade playing to throw in a coin / token ..
Well, if that happens (in theory, it actually is already sold....) I still have the original 2708 EPROM and it can be very simply put back in it's socket ;)
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Put back the original 2708 and Asterock still works 100%
I just checked and pin 18 of all 2708's are indeed connected to GND so it looks we're all set to try my idea...
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Success !!!! Freeplay on Asterock :)
Since pin 18 is wired to GND on the Asterock PCB I shorted pin 19 to 18 instead of 12 because they are next to eachother and so easier to short...
So the final instructions:
a) lift pin 19 and short to pin 18
b) lift pin 21 and short to pin 24
That's all there is to it. Of course if you want to exchange all 2708s into 2716s it's better to mod some lines on the board instead but if its just one like this this is the easiest way.
The hack does show some weird effects.
After power up the number of credits is 00. However P1 was blinking but not P2. Tried P2 anyway and it does start a two player game just fine. After killing off all ships on both players the credit number showed 98 now.
After a P1 game the number Was 97. Etc etc etc.
Not sure what will happen if it reaches 0, but hey, I rarely play 100 games after another....
Ok drifted off a bit from the original subject.....
On UKvac Raven reported he owns a Batronix programmer and it works just fine, no problems with burning chips that need +25V contrary to some other USB programmers.
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Nice problem solved. :)
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Nice meeting you yesterday Anunaki !
Does MK2 use 27080 EPROMs or are those the one's you need ?
I just checked the list of supported devices by my Needham programmer. There is an Atmel 27C080 listed so yes I can program that.
Or check for yourself :) => http://www.arcadesolution.com/emp10dl.pdf
I mean the device cost me 100+ and I need to make some adapter myself risking to blow it up
The first thing I want to do with it is OK, I have the needed EPROMS to programm 4 different MK2 revisions.
On the other hand, I don't want to buy some Chinese crap.
I think about it and get back to you.
ISD there any change we will get 5 people to buy one?
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Level42, it sure was great to meet You IRL
MK2 uses 27C040 and they are in the list
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OK PM sent...
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I bought myself one of these yesterday. I will be here by monday.
1st thing I will do is burn some 2716 and 2732 roms with it.
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Finally I bought a Batronix Batupo II eprom programmer, it works like a charm. :D
It is ideal for noobs like me, the software is awesome, very easy to handle.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7tnrN-i6JhE/UrQGf5MWtQI/AAAAAAAAIMw/QjCasO-tmEw/w801-h532-no/002.JPG)
Didn't have too much time, but tried it out with an unknown board, read an eprom and run the file under romident, it turned out a Prehistoric Isle in 1930 pcb. :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qU-69DLzPuU/UrHEllkf4nI/AAAAAAAAIMg/QWCwe8MG3Q8/w353-h532-no/batronix+004.jpg)
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good to know you got yourselft a Batronix :) I got lucky to get a BX48 thanks to Level42 pointing me their translation program.
It's great , but when it comes to maskrom, it's not easy to find the corresponding Eprom model. Anyone has a table for this ?