Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: level42 on June 03, 2011, 09:33:45 AM
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...today is fix a game day at my home :)
Today's targets: Joust (should be easy) and Puckman (a bit harder/more work).
The goal is to get them to run, not fully restored ;)
Will probably swap in a replacement monitor (a great working Hantarex 9000 I bought a while ago) in the Puck.
If there's time left, I might roll out the SW cockpit to FINALLY finish the fans...
If anyone is bored and around today....any help is welcome. Beer is cold :P
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Depending of my job today i might drop by 8)
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You're working ? Wow, one of the few today :P
Would be cool if you can make it !
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I'll be there around noon ;)
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Mmmmmmmm Beer......... ;D
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i'll join in with my continuing work on vindicators. nice to know that other guys from the forum are working on their machines today as well. i'll drink a malt beer on you guys!
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The beer hasn't been opened yet here, but I can tell you it won't be long !
We got the Joust running again, coin door back in place, replaced the monitor. Only need to know if a Polo needs an isolation transformer which I'll check now...
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With "a game" you where referring to "an amusement machine" then not only PCBs! I was going to ask you what the problem was with your Joust PCB ;)
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...ha, the Polo doesn't need an isolation transformer and it runs on 230VAC. However, when we had installed it there was no picture at all. We could hear the crackling of the HV so that was fine. First checked if the signal connector was compatible, which it was so that couldn't be the problem.
So, what steps do you take if you have no picture ?
1) Check HV (was good, we could hear it
2) check neck for neckglow
So...I removed the dust of the neck a bit with a whet finger to see if I could see some glow......but as soon as I did this I found out what the problem was....the neckboard was loose from the tube.....DUHHHH !!! :)
And so, the Joust is ready for Eurocade. Not yet restored of course, but it works...
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the joust is running the multi williams pcb, right?
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the joust is running the multi williams pcb, right?
If it does.... Sweet!!!!! :spaceace:
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Great you got it working so fast again, pictures please! ;)
i kinda forgot it was running the multi Williams board, which means MORE CLASSICS to play at Eurocade. ;D ;D ;D
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the joust is running the multi williams pcb, right
Yes sir !
You can play Joust, Robotron and Bubbles. Not sure about the other games. Sinistar not because it's vertical, Defender & Stargate not because of the insane controls those games got, Blaster doesn't seem to fire.
But who cares Joust & Robotron RULE :P
By the way, big thank you to Etienne for helping me out this afternoon !!!!!
The original monitor (or at least , the one that was in there is a Hantarex 900E. That was bout the only problem of the game. It wasn't hooked up to the 120VAC of the transformer anymore. The problem with the monitor was that it looses sync after running for a while. May need some new caps.
For now, we replaced the 900E with a Hantarex Polo that I had bought about a year ago (was removed from a Sega Megatech by the seller, he had mamed it and put a VGA CRT monitor in there. The picture is like brand new.
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Great, then I will play robotron all day. ;D
Congratulations with the repair, I bet you are to drunk now to work on the Puckman.
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Great you got it working so fast again, pictures please! ;)
That was only because i dropped by ofcourse ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
no seriously, 've had a great afternoon...
Assisting a die hard is always a pleasure :D
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The Asterock is running fine too, for now I put back the original PCB. Etienne played his first B/W vector today :)
Next up: Puckman !
Also need to install the fans in the SW cockpit and see if it's running robust then. Also need to fix the sound issues, which are very likely harness problems.
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By the way, big thank you to Etienne for helping me out this afternoon !!!!!
You're very welcome Andre, I 've had a great afternoon.
Its much nicer to work with two persons on something, its just much more pleasure.
ps. you got some links with pics in your mailbox..
i thought they could take a place between your pics :P
(they are crappy cellphone pics, but hey , better than nothing ;))
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In fact, we didn't even had time for the beer, it's still in the fridge ;)
We worked very hard, Etienne, is brutal saying I should speed up, get it done etc. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just kidding it was great fun to work together.....Etienne also got inspired by the marquee (there's a "cut up" US Joust marquee in it now), the bezel (which shows brand crackles and some spots where the paint has come off) and the CPO. All loads of vectors, Etienne said :) :) :)
O, I did some cleaning of the CPO with the magic sponges...The yucky Suzo joysticks are in there, at least they work fine, if there is time I left I would like to put the Wico's in there...if it's an easy enough fit...
Still need two screw-in bulbs (damn, I had wedge and bayonet socket bulbs plenty from my pinball machine, but not the screw-in type...) for the coin-mechs.
Also put in a brand new lock in the coin door. Still need one for the back and the lower coin-door though...
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Nice couple, lol! ;D
Next time you should make me a nice Universal to Konami adapter. ;D ;)
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tip of the day:
When you're going for the coindoor bulbs, take 5V variants, hook it up to the switcher and loose that bigass transformer ;D
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The pics from Etienne:
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre1.jpg)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre2.jpg)
As you can see, the Joust is one big hack-job inside. Former owners had Jammatized it, which was great for me because I needed the cab for the Jrok multi-Williams board.
However, as you can see, it's a dirty job done. The wiring is a mess. But it works for now. I will tidy up later (will probably put a complete new Jamma harness in there).
Also, the big power transformer which I'm soldering on used to power the monitor (120VAC) but the "new" polo runs straight on 230VAC. so the only thing the transformer is powering now it the coin door lights :) So....I could remove it (and run the lights on 5VDC from the switching power supply that was already in there (that supplies the PCB now).
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre3.jpg)
I also still have the stencils patiently waiting in my attic ;)
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Seeing that last pic, reminds me..
can you check the following :
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre4.jpg)
are those measurements the same ? (the retainers)
I mean , i have taken the correct measurements of the visible area, and the total height, but i dont know if the visible area is exactly centered..
do you know what i mean ?
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I'll measure tomorrow...just closed everything...
Had a bit of a scary moment with the Joust this evening. Was playing a nice game of Joust and when it turned to a next level, it went straigh to the start-up/Hi-score screen....mmmmmm aiaiaiaiai had I found a bug on the Jrok Multi-Williams ?
OK...so play another game....after a while I start to be able to fly THROUGH the oponents....next everything freezes and I run for the power switch to turn it off.
Let it cool down for a minute or five and powered up. Running fine again....
OK...let's check the basics: what's the +5V at ?? Measuring 5.5V !!! WHoopssss.....turned it right back to 5.00V exactly at the terminals.
Been running fine ever since....fffffeeeeeuuuwwwww...
Uploading a video as we "speak"....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_U9NJp0IfY
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Nice stuff in that gameroom, thanks for the tour!
I want a Joust, I want a Joust, I want a Joust ;D ;D
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Mmmm, it turned out really dark...I am looking into buying a new camcorder.
I want HD... :)
I only just realised (again) that the Joust has extra buttons hacked in, the brown one's on the front are of course not supposed to be there at all....This was obviously done to get 2 button games running.
In the end I would like to have a control panel set-up that will support all games, yet still have only a Joust artwork. Maybe weird, but I really don't like the multi-williams artwork around.
It will also be a huge challenge because the CP is really tiny.
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Your game room is a dream Andrè!
In the end I would like to have a control panel set-up that will support all games[...]
:evil: :evil: :evil:
Maybe weird, but I really don't like the multi-williams artwork around.
+1, the Mutli Williams artwork is a SHAME: very confusing with little to extra little images :-X
Andrè, turn that Joust back to his original glory AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Running a multiboard is not what it is intended to >:( :lol:
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thx for the tour, andré, i like videos like that! and i have to admit: your gameroom looks extremely nice! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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I only just realised (again) that the Joust has extra buttons hacked in, the brown one's on the front are of course not supposed to be there at all....This was obviously done to get 2 button games running.
In the end I would like to have a control panel set-up that will support all games, yet still have only a Joust artwork. Maybe weird, but I really don't like the multi-williams artwork around.
It will also be a huge challenge because the CP is really tiny.
Yeah, and also they put the second player setup in "mirror" in your panel..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre5.jpg)
(http://www.arcade-museum.com/images/118/1181242123211.jpg)
so if i understand you correctly, we need to design / vector a CPO for that joust that has all the buttons on the top, and you want to get rid of the two in the front ?
they acually dont look too bad IMHO, they could use some art / identification.
take the 1 and 2 player from the top side for example and put them next to the buttons, and clean the section of the old buttons up.
i have seen alot of "custom artwork" online, maybe there is some inspiration ?
or, place some switches behind the coin rejectors and use them as player 1 and player 2 ::)
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Your game room is a dream Andrè!
In the end I would like to have a control panel set-up that will support all games[...]
:evil: :evil: :evil:
Maybe weird, but I really don't like the multi-williams artwork around.
+1, the Mutli Williams artwork is a SHAME: very confusing with little to extra little images :-X
Andrè, turn that Joust back to his original glory AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Running a multiboard is not what it is intended to >:( :lol:
Thanks for your compliments !
Not sure if you know, but that "Multi-board" is _not+ your average xx-in-1 board from China running some ancient MAME version with lousy sound emulation you may be thinking off...
This is Jrok's Multi-Williams PCB. It does NOT emulate the games. It has the original processor running on the board !
The only thing different from the original hardware is that all the surrounding hardware is put into a FPGA chip.
It's like putting all those loose TTL chips that are on the normal Williams hardware into a single chip.
It plays 100% the same as the original hardware, as stated by many owners who can compare it to original hardware set-ups.
I have absolutely ZERO problems running this board in this cab. Reasons ?
1) It's 100 times more reliable than the original hardware
2) I can play both Robotron AND Joust on it...the two Williams games I love the best
3) it is NOT emulation....we all know how I feel about that :P
IMHO FPGA's are the way to preserve those games. In the end we will not be able to get separate DIL TTL IC's anymore. I am always 100% for original hardware, but this board is an excellent alternative for it.
(For some who don't know (Etienne f.i. already asked about it): This board does not run Moon Patrol for a reason. MP is not an original Williams game but a license. Hence, it works on a totally different hardware platform. All the other games run on (about) the same hardware, so that's how close JROK stayed to the original hardware...)
So, no the Jrok board will stay where it is. I read that it's worth at least 300 USD now by the way ;)
Here's the whole story by Jrok. You should also read the rest of his pages.He started out by doing reproductions of PARTS of the original hardware, making PCB's to replace original one's. So, step by step he learned the Williams hardware in and out, and only then he created the FPGA.
http://www.jrok.com/hardware/wsf/
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Whell, i know what you mean: Jrok multi Williams is not an xxx in 1 (no sexual allusions, please :D), this is for sure dude; but look at that hacked control panel: it is saying "please bring me to the original set up!! Pleeeease!" "4 way is not the way" (this could be a good slogan for it :lol:)
If i was forced to use a JMW on my Joust (but i am not :o ;D) i would let only Joust play; also, i would have Joust pre-selected so when the cabinet is turned on i have not to choose my game from that (not really nice) front end... like it was from the factory (i know that you are sensible on this point ;))
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I saw the game (i helped bringing it alive yesterday) and it is set to load joust at startup, you can later if you like switch the game to another game by pressing and holding the player 1 & 2 buttons.
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Hey André, you have a very nice gameroom, but, definitively, you need a racer (Super Hang On is a good one, but maybe too new) ;).
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If i was forced to use a JMW on my Joust (but i am not :o ;D) i would let only Joust play; also, i would have Joust pre-selected so when the cabinet is turned on i have not to choose my game from that (not really nice) front end... like it was from the factory (i know that you are sensible on this point ;))
As I already mention in the video, it _does_ boot up in Joust straight away....and no, I do not want to miss Robotron 2084...it's too f-ing brilliant ! :D
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Hey André, you have a very nice gameroom, but, definitively, you need a racer (Super Hang On is a good one, but maybe too new) ;).
As you may remember from elsewhere on this forum, I sold my Power Drift to Kroustibat to make space for the Pole Position cockpit I was going to get from France. Alas, this turned out way too expensive for me, so I had to cancel that deal. So indeed, much to my (and my son's) regret, I don't have a racing game at the moment....
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If you want a racer, it either PP or Outrun if you ask me 8)
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Yup. And of those two, PP is the top one on my list. The reasons are the era it is from. Outrun is still a bit later. Plus, I have the same feeling as Bela on this, the only real Outun, is the full moving one (with all respect to the uprights of course !!!)
Outrun is still a classic in my eyes though. EVERYTHING about that game is great...not in the last place the music !
It's just that back in the day, I had actually never SEEN an upright Outrun, ALL of them I saw in that time were the full moving one's.
But then again....the same goes for Pole Position !!! It's the same again with SW, never saw the upright until I started in this hobby....
Even today there are much more cockpits in Europe than uprights AFAIK.
I just think that a driving game is also much more realistic when you sit.
Anyway, I'll just have to be patient.
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[...]I do not want to miss Robotron 2084...it's too f-ing brilliant ! :D
+100 :D
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I only just realised (again) that the Joust has extra buttons hacked in, the brown one's on the front are of course not supposed to be there at all....This was obviously done to get 2 button games running.
In the end I would like to have a control panel set-up that will support all games, yet still have only a Joust artwork. Maybe weird, but I really don't like the multi-williams artwork around.
It will also be a huge challenge because the CP is really tiny.
Yeah, and also they put the second player setup in "mirror" in your panel..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre5.jpg)
(http://www.arcade-museum.com/images/118/1181242123211.jpg)
so if i understand you correctly, we need to design / vector a CPO for that joust that has all the buttons on the top, and you want to get rid of the two in the front ?
they acually dont look too bad IMHO, they could use some art / identification.
take the 1 and 2 player from the top side for example and put them next to the buttons, and clean the section of the old buttons up.
i have seen alot of "custom artwork" online, maybe there is some inspiration ?
or, place some switches behind the coin rejectors and use them as player 1 and player 2 ::)
I think I'll have to take a look at the Multi-Williams CP's that are now "around" to see what I would need in controls...and if it would be possible in any way to fit it in...
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If you find something that you like and it needs adjustments, or a scratch custom CPO, in vectors, you know where to find me ;)
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can you check the following :
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/andre4.jpg)
are those measurements the same ? (the retainers)
If you need the height of the retainers, they are 20 mm. The two are not overall identic because of the bending angle, but the height is the same
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;D ;D ;D
Funny you mention that the retainers are not the same for the angle......after I had installed the light-bulb, I had put them on exchanged and Etienne noticed that the angles were different :D
@Etienne: Thanks, this is what I think are starting point should be:
http://www.appolo.com/artwork/wmg_defender_panel.htm
(http://www.appolo.com/artwork/def_final_top2.jpg)
In general I find this CPO WAAAAAYYYYY to busy. I esp. don't like the Bubbles figure. So basically what I want is a CPO that will have a 100% Joust style, but will include the needed controls for all the games. I had a look at this and I do think it's possible.
I would prefer to get rid of the buttons on the front side. If still needed though, I could put black one's in there, although brown does match the color scheme of Joust....
I do think it will require closing (all) original holes in the CP and then starting again from scratch. I'm, sure the Multi-Willams set-up has been well thought out so I don't want to change that lay-out of the controls (much)...
I'll have to hunt for a vector file that has the control holes set-up for that CP...
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Well look what our friend Zorg already has....think we can work from that ?
http://vectorlib.free.fr/MultiWilliams/
Also a good thread I want to document here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=99145.0
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sure we can work with that
It opens fine in AI ;)
but i am wondering what that blue spot is doing there.. i think it need to be black ;
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/joust/07.jpg)
by the way, you need extra holes there, punch them before the cpo is applied ;) ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D