Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => All the rest => Topic started by: Belike on March 08, 2011, 07:04:59 PM
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I found my old records last weekend like Wham, Abba, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, etc. and as I have only this old non-working record player, I'm planning to buy a classic hi-tech modell from the 80-90's.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXZs3Fl-KPI/AAAAAAAACiQ/cIpSacmsh8A/s800/Retro%20radio.jpg)
Can you recommend me an exact type of a direct drive record player with a nice and clear sound?
I have an almost new amplifier and some good loudspeakers.
My recommended brands are Technics, Pioneer or Denon. ;)
Thanks in advance. ;)
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I can't really recommend any tables, but I can recommend the Audio Technica 440MLA cart/stylus.
It really handles inner groove distortion well (that phenomenon where records tend to sound noisier/distorted towards the label).
It's not perhaps as "musical" as other carts, but for the price range it's very forgiving for surface noise.
I also can't stress how important proper cart alignment is ! :) Makes a huge difference in how good records sound.
Good luck in your search!
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I can't really recommend any tables, but I can recommend the Audio Technica 440MLA cart/stylus.
It really handles inner groove distortion well (that phenomenon where records tend to sound noisier/distorted towards the label).
It's not perhaps as "musical" as other carts, but for the price range it's very forgiving for surface noise.
I also can't stress how important proper cart alignment is ! :) Makes a huge difference in how good records sound.
Good luck in your search!
Also, my table is a MusicHall mmf-5, but it's belt driven and I think some Audiophiles will scoff at MusicHall stuff ;) :lol:
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Why do you want direct drive ?
Belt drive is much better.
OK, my record player is a Technics SL-1410. That is the home version of the famous SL-1210 DJ table. It's a very good quality table. It has en Empire cartridge. The Empire cartridge is really special. It has the advantages of a moving coil pick-up but can be connected to a normal moving magnet input. The cartridge was DLF 450,- back when it was bought.
I got the player compete for free from a friend. Only thing I had to do was make some MP3's from a number of his records.
Now....of course that's a DD table.
BUT.....if now I would have to buy a new player, it would be something like the Pro-ject players:
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?info=turntables&cat=turntables&lang=en
Audiophiles may look down at them, but even if you get the cheapest one, they will be MILES MILES better than somethine like Sony, Akai or all the rubbish USB players you see around these days.
So...if you want the best sound for your buck, that's a nice brand. The "trick" is that they are built in the Czech republic. So production costs are relatively low. That the Czech can build very good quality products is proven by my Skoda that I drive every day. OK, it's a Volkswagen Golf with a different look, but it's still built there and they have BETTER statistics then Volkswagen itself :)
Now, if you are not scared of buying a used deck, you could have a look at Thorens and Rega. Excellent brands but they may need some fixing up of course....
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Thanks for your advises ;)
@Steven: your Musichall turntable looks great, I would like something like that, but it's a bit expensive and not available around Hungary. :-\
@André:I've heard, that the direct drive players run a bit steadier, but seems like I shouldn't believe everything. ;D
It's a good point, that if I buy a used one, maybe I will spend 3 times more for repairing in the future, and at the end it will cost the same as a new one. ???
I found the hungarian distributor of Pro-ject palyers, they have a nice exhibition room, I will pay a visit them this week. ;)
http://www.audiocentrum.hu/ click "analóg(bakelit) lemezjátszók" option on the left side.
The cheaper types are around 250 eur, that's an acceptable price for a good quality palyer IMHO.
Btw. I also like Skoda cars, I asked my boss to buy me an Octavia Rs, but that jerk chose a rubbish Focus. ::)
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I can only say that the turntables i used to own gave me a good satisfaction.
In that time we liked to DJ, and yes, it was like Andre discribed, The world famous Technics MK2 :spaceace:
Or SL1200 as you may know them 8)
(http://www.huren.nu/static/huren-en-verhuren/Technics-sl-1200-mk2-draaitafel-12609567310.jpg)
But i need to say that i love your Radio/Turntable combi.
Why not try to fix that ? (don't know whats wrong with it ofcourse)
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How about a soundwagon (http://www.soundwagon.jp/product.html)? :)
(http://www.incrediblethings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/soundwagon.jpg) (http://www.soundwagon.jp/product.html)
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But i need to say that i love your Radio/Turntable combi.
Why not try to fix that ? (don't know whats wrong with it ofcourse)
I found an old guy, who can repair these radios, I will take the machine him tomorrow, but please note that this modell from the 1960's has a bit different sound quality than the Technics MK2. ;D ;D ;D
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But i need to say that i love your Radio/Turntable combi.
Why not try to fix that ? (don't know whats wrong with it ofcourse)
I found an old guy, who can repair these radios, I will take the machine him tomorrow, but please note that this modell from the 1960's has a bit different sound quality than the Technics MK2. ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, that's a great looking player you have. Just be careful if it has an old mono stylus and you're playing stereo records!
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DD turntables are definitly what you need for DJ work. However, even if they run that 0.01% steady, it's not that important if you just want to listen to music at home.
The belt drive has the (huge) advantage that there is no mechanical coupling between the motor and the table itself. This is extremely so on the more expensive players like this:
(http://hificorner.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/p/rpm92-1.jpg)
Also, a heavy turntable will run very steady because of it's weight.
Anyway, that cheapest Pro-ject will buy you a HUGE advantage over things like this:
http://www.bol.com/nl/l/elektronica/audio-hifi-platenspelers/N/10718+1283+1285+5260+7373/index.html?promo=hifi_hp_onderwerp_Platenspelers
Each and everyone of those are complete rubbish. If you are a tiny bit serious about sound quality you avoid them like the plague...
About the price of the entry level deck Belike: not sure if that includes a cartridge. I do think the tone arm is included with that one though...
If you want to record to your computer the same company also sounds a nice hi quality device:
http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=usbbox&cat=source&lang=en
However, only if it's material you can't find around in digital form, why go that way. Analogue is best when heard....analogue :)
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Mmm, if you're going for the entry model (which is fine as a basic GOOD player for the money) the Ortofon cartridge is included. Also, there is a USB version that (also) can be connected to a computer to record stuff...should you ever need....
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Mmm, if you're going for the entry model (which is fine as a basic GOOD player for the money) the Ortofon cartridge is included. Also, there is a USB version that (also) can be connected to a computer to record stuff...should you ever need....
The entry model means this one and the one you linked?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXchZxsAyhI/AAAAAAAACio/vcNIJeu42nQ/1185.jpg)
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Yup !
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Thanks André, I really appreciate your overwiev in this topic. ;D
Btw. I visited the the old guy today, he has a cool retro workshop
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXdvEG1kAVI/AAAAAAAACjE/8Mzx_9aVLT4/s800/20110309010.jpg)
That Beethoven in the bottom left corner looks great, the price is 1000 eur tho :o
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXdvDx5hlcI/AAAAAAAACi8/Ml89SvsH17U/s800/20110309011.jpg)
He will make a complete overhaul in this machine in a week, I hope he also will be able to repair the turntable part.
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I love this kind of repair shop ! :spaceace:
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Wow are they really THAT valuable now ?? I had a couple of those some 20 years ago....I have no idea where they went though :S
I love tube radios. Every heard the sound ? It's so specific. And the warm glow of the lamps, and if you're really lucky a "cat's eye" to adjust the receiver exactly to the strongest signal :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LXMJxt0mbI&feature=related
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+1 for the Projet Debut III
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Mmm, if you're going for the entry model (which is fine as a basic GOOD player for the money) the Ortofon cartridge is included. Also, there is a USB version that (also) can be connected to a computer to record stuff...should you ever need....
The entry model means this one and the one you linked?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXchZxsAyhI/AAAAAAAACio/vcNIJeu42nQ/1185.jpg)
Looking again, this is the Debut. The "essential" is the real "starter" deck. I can't see in your pockets, but a player like this you buy for what, 20 years use ? Maybe it's worth adding a bit extra for the Debut.
Maybe you can listen to both of them and judge if you can actually hear any difference...
It's up to you, again with the cheapest Pro-ject you will be still WAY better than the other rubbish toys from the "big" brands...
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It's up to you, again with the cheapest Pro-ject you will be still WAY better than the other rubbish toys from the "big" brands...
+1. Way back I had one of those entry level Sony LX300 turntables (I think it gets re-branded quite a bit, including into models with the USB support) and they'll have you wondering why you aren't listening to CDs instead ;D The cartridges weren't adjustable as I recall, and even then you couldn't switch out the cartridge :(
Like Level42 says, a good setup will last a long time and will be more enjoyable in the long run. And your setup can always be something you upgrade over time: the stylus, the cart, tone arm, pre-amp etc. etc. Like arcade games though, it can become an obsession!! :shock:
There is something magical about a good, clean, quiet record :)
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Thanks guys, I will keep you informed, try to visit the exhibition hall tomorrow. ;)
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I visited the shop of the hungarian distributor today, they have a nice stock from each modell.
They also recommended the Project Debut III in the cheaper category, with the USB port it's about 60 eur more, but I think that function won't be needed for me.
I was lucky, because they had one installed in their showroom and I can tell you, that this player has a crystal clear, awesome sound. ;D
I didn't buy it yet, but I think I will be back soon to their shop. ;)
Some bad quality pics with my E72
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXpaOPT107I/AAAAAAAACjo/JlzcZgthAt8/s800/20110311014.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_-UA8BV99Des/TXpaOYmuwfI/AAAAAAAACjs/I9gF0ZnxX-M/s800/20110311012.jpg)
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What is the price in Ft ?
(P.S., when you buy one there, they can send the commission to me) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Don't forget to bargain. These days, this stuff has to be bargained about. I'd try to get the USB one for the price of a regular one...something like that....
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Just buy a second hand technics sl1200 and get yourself a new needle.
It's the best all-round turntable ever and i'm listening to it right now. ;) :) :)
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I don't agree. What is "the best all-round turntable" ?
The SL-12xx 's are focussed and targeted on the DJ world. You don't need a lot of what it has at home. In fact, it has a lot you DON'T want at home...
The Pro-ject is designed for the home market, for the more audiophile (but I hate that word, I prefer, serious music fan) market.
As mentioned, I have a SL-1410 now and I enjoy listening to it a lot more than a do listening to my (then) 1000 guilder Marantz SD-67SE CD player....
However, I can also hear it's shortcomings.
I'm not currently in the market, but if you want a serious home deck for a amazingly low price, the Pro-ject is it. I think a good nice used SL-12xx is even MORE expensive than a brand new Pro-ject debut III.
Here's a nice article that compares it to MUCH more expensive players.
http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/pro-ject_debut_iii_record_player
I listen to my sources through a Sony receiver and B&W 6 series surround set-up, exactly like this MINUS the subwoofer, which is TOTALLY unnecessary with the 603's (if you don't believe so, you're welcome to come and listen to the pod-race SW scene here :)):
(http://www.shopprime.co.kr/prod_image/dm603series.jpg)
I'm pretty serious about sound quality, but for a reasonable price. I also tend to stick VERY long with my choice. The B&W 6 were not cheap (for me anyway, still affordable) but will stick around for many many more years, I love them.
If anything, I will be replacing the Sony receiver. It's the last Sony product I've ever bought. Although they seem to make nice stuff, they ALWAYS, ALWAYS break down with me !
Again, the SL-12xx or SL-14xx are certainly no rubbish. But they are a design from the 70's. Many things have improved since then, and things we thought were great than (S-arm) are considered different now....
But....as with all audio components, let your ears decide.... :)
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@Pieter:Originally I had the same idea, but a premium second hand Technics player is about 250-300 eur on ebay+shipping+new needle, I could buy a new one with excellent sound and with a few years guarantee on that money with the upgraded technology.
@André:The Debut III was 69990 Ft. which is 260 eur and the USB version was 89990 equal to 330 eur.(+ your comission of course) ;D
They told me, that these are reduced prices.
There were also very nice models in the top category for 800 to 1000 eur, but I wouldn't like to spend that much for turntable. ;)
Btw. I totally agree, Sony sux! ;D ;D ;D
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Pro-Jects might sound good, too bad they look so ugly...
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/~chrischris/arcade/31BJWYN8BHL._SS420_.jpg)
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A record player, or in fact any audio equipment is meant to reproduce music as good as possible.
Not to look good.
But I don't agree, I think the Debut looks great.
The others are more aimed at the higher segment of the market, these people don't give rats about looks...
here's a nice google for you:
http://www.google.nl/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=hi%20end%20record%20player&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=nl&tab=wi&biw=1789&bih=1158
:) This is my favorite so far:
(http://most-expensive.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/expensive-turntable-work-of-art.jpg)
Only 150000 dollars....
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wow, that look absolutely cool or should i say TRON like!
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Did you ever buy a Pro-jet Béla ?
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What are you going to replace the Sony with? An Onkyo TX-NR 809
(http://www.nl.onkyo.com/assets/1/4/6/4/0/TX-NR809__B__Front_R640x320.png)
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In fact, I did replace it with an Onkyo, but a somewhat smaller one, the TX-SR707.
Similar size and power as the Sony but a LOT more possibilities and options. Most important I can hook up every component of my AV system to it through HDMI and not loose quality. In fact it can even upscale my DVDs if I want. Has more channels than I'll ever need etc.
(http://www.eclecticelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/onkyo-tx-sr707-av-receiver-front-back-panel.jpg)
Got it for a great price from a friend who owned it for less than 1,5 years. He wanted to upgrade to a network capable receiver. Since I use my iPad or Mac and Airport express and/or Apple TV for that kind of work I didn't need that at all.
I haven't set up everything 100% yet but it sounds great.
I also scored another very nice receiver last weekend that I guess will end up in my gameroom....but more about that in the "flea market" thread a bit later today....
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Did you ever buy a Pro-jet Béla ?
Not yet, I bought a Pioneer for 10 eur and received a Sanyo combi with casette player beast from my cousin for free. :D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3kqDZWTs6zM/T7JlO7TFMnI/AAAAAAAAF8g/5Y9r6FXyhhU/s800/WP_000231.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EiAjMR9iO3w/T7JlPNTRRBI/AAAAAAAAF8o/t3WnRLa3GkM/s800/WP_000233.jpg)
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That Pioneer turntable was part of the stereo set my parents used to have..
I think my mother still has it, and i believe they bought it in 1986..
I know i still have a picture of it somewhere.. lets see... ::)
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Uhhh....wel at least you can play records with those........
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The pioneer sounds great, the Sanyo's record part is not working, but it has a built in amplifier and it was a top modell in the 80's. ;D
I also got 2 original speakers for the beast, I'm planning to restore it to it's former glory, it also has a great sound, I remeber it from my childhood.
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Buying a 300+ turntable wont get you better sound if you dont have high quality amplifier and speakers.
So you will have to spend at least 1k to listen some old scratched Wham records..
You made the right choice man. ;)
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Technics SL-1210MK2
Denon PMA-1560
:wink:
Buying a 300+ turntable wont get you better sound if you dont have high quality amplifier and speakers.
So you will have to spend at least 1k to listen some old scratched Wham records..
You made the right choice man. ;)
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Buying a 300+ turntable wont get you better sound if you dont have high quality amplifier and speakers.
I don't agree. If you increase the quality of one element in the chain you will definitely get a better sound at the end.
Of course it's sensible to search for a balance in the chain but there's nothing against upgrading one part now and the next a year (or 2) later...
Of course if you just want to play an occasional record and don't care for sound quality too much there's little wrong with the Pioneer, but we were discussing getting a used Technics SL-1210 vs. buying a brand new near-audiophile deck.
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Technics SL-1210MK2
Denon PMA-1560
:wink:
Hey, where's that Marantz CD-67 SE you scored for 5 Euro's ??
I'm pretty sure it's better than the Denon CD player you got there now...would be fun to do a hear-test session ;)
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The sound is really nice (for 5 euro) ;D
The denon DCD-1015 sound is also very nice
Technics SL-1210MK2
Denon PMA-1560
:wink:
Hey, where's that Marantz CD-67 SE you scored for 5 Euro's ??
I'm pretty sure it's better than the Denon CD player you got there now...would be fun to do a hear-test session ;)
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@ andre :D
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Hah, see you installed it ! Yeah I bet the Denon and Marantz are not that far apart. The SE means the Marantz has selected (matching) high quality capacitors and the end stages are completely built out of discrete parts, compared to the usual integrated amps....
I think only the CD63 Ken Ishawata signature would be a better CD player from Marantz....but as you know you can tweak "the hell" out of it ;)
Mmmm...this (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2462.0;attach=2079;image) looks familiar !
(See the flea market thread) :D
Beauty !
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Look what Santa brought at X-mas:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8503/8329629138_c4355a2ae7_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629138/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629138/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8072/8329629402_fcde059dd4_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629402/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629402/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8356/8329629590_e9c35af213_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629590/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/level_42/8329629590/) by Level_42 (http://www.flickr.com/people/level_42/), on Flickr
Nice, the newest version has a carbon arm, unheard of in this price category. Carbon is extremely light yet extremely rigid, exactly what you want with a tone-arm. It's also pretty expensive to make so was never used in the "entry level" decks until now.
It also has a better cartridge (Ortofon OM10), better motor suspension and has terminals for the RCA cables so you can replace them with better one's if you want.
It sounds totally SWEET ! Much more detail than my old SL1410....really awesome sounding....
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I've been waiting for this post for a while, beautiful piece, congrats. ;)
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awesome, love the minimalistic design!
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Yes....I love that too. Like an Apple product :p
Anyway Pro-ject puts all the money into the sound quality and leaves all thrills that can degrade sound quality off. To change speed between 33 and 45 you have to remove the platter and move the belt from the smaller to the larger pully....also there is no automatic return or shut off :)
But it totally smokes my Marantz CD player !
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Nice Onkyo. I have the way older version, the 701. Amp is probably comparable, but mine lacks all the HDMI upscaling stuff. Does not matter, as it only has to amp and decode DTS/DD/PCM from my Mac Mini mediacenter, and it still can handle all the Blu Ray audio streams.
It just got its first malfunction though. The center speaker is not working all the time. I figured out that it probably is caused by a defective relais on the output print. Thanks to a handy service manual I think I can fix it soon.
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Very very very nice video about how vinyl records are made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbTPKCtdhSA
....and a nice list of vinyl factories still running all over the world:
http://monoequipped.wordpress.com/vinyl-pressing-plants/
The longer I have the Pro-Ject the more I love it. I recently bought this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jPbF-t89L._SS400_.jpg) and man what can I say, it's like hearing the songs for the first time.
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What about a 10.000 rpm Schneider ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=DNGxDAiTxaQ&NR=1
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Looks fake to me. Even If they set it up for the highest amount of needle pressure, there is NO way that the needle will stay in the groove at those RPMs, especially with a warped and eccentric record like that !
Looks like they just sped up the video...
Althought the end is done nicely...and makes me doubt...
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LOL, Everytime I See that BAD album.. My eye plays a trick and I see this:
"my" Bad... LOL
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h60/sonic_1992/51jPbF-t89L__SS400_1_zpsf758adf7.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/sonic_1992/media/51jPbF-t89L__SS400_1_zpsf758adf7.jpg.html)
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Belike, if your still looking for a player, check out this site: http://www.elpj.com/ :D ;D ;)
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Belike, if your still looking for a player, check out this site: http://www.elpj.com/ :D ;D ;)
Cool, it is just 20,000 usd with all extras. ;D