Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: baritonomarchetto on July 03, 2010, 11:39:53 AM
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Here we are, as promised here (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=1703.0) : shots from my Euro Joust!
Let start with some external view of the machine
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8955/sam0198slim.jpg)
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6546/sam0199slim.jpg)
(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/7264/sam0201slimr.jpg)
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6035/sam0204slimr.jpg)
It's in very good shape considering it's 30 years old. The biggest damage is in the T molding here and there (and the cut wires, obviously >:() :arrow:
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4675/sam0200slim.jpg)
Let check the identity of this machine:
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7180/sam0226slim.jpg)
There are stickers with this number on the external part of the machine and on the monitor:
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4711/sam0221slim.jpg)
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9258/sam0223slim.jpg)
Different is instead the number on the PCB's
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/927/sam0224slim.jpg)
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/337/sam0206slim.jpg)
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5623/sam0207slim.jpg)
Green label?
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/244/sam0208slim.jpg)
As you can see, almost all the cables have been cut :?, so it will not be easy to resto the functionality of the machine... anyhow, we are not in a hurry ;D
Let see the Control Panel: player one side detail
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4319/sam0215slim.jpg)
player two side
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5703/sam0216slim.jpg)
control panel overview
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4210/sam0217slim.jpg)
The Marquee:
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3351/sam0218slim.jpg)
Under the marquee; i didnt expect to find a neon but a bulb light system: maybe the previous owner made some modification (in addition to the cables cut :evil:)
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6922/sam0230slim.jpg)
Thats all folks for now, now it's time to disassemble as much as possible and cleaning
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looking good!
The sideart is in ok shape!
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WHY do people cut out wires like that ??? It makes my angry ! Same with my Getaway Pinball....
Try to ask on KLOV forum for a Joust wiring harness....you'll never know....
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It's in very good shape considering it's 30 years old. The only damage is in the T molding at the base :arrow:
first of all: great score - congrats! second: i wouldn't call the condition VERY GOOD, GOOD is the maximum i would give, but that's just my two cents. nevertheless, great game and a MUST in every arcade collection!
As you can see, almost all the cables have been cut :?, so it will not be easy to resto the functionality of the machine... anyhow, we are not in a hurry ;D
do you know that "dokert" on klov sells wonderful repro harnesses for a lot of williams cabinets - joust included? if i were you, i'd contact him. will probably save you a lot of time and effort.
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Yes something in my mind said that someone on KLOV was building those new.....but (as so often) i had forgotten who.
:)
Love the marquee.....If only I could have a repro :)
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Very cool cabinet, wish I had one! good luck with your project.
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second: i wouldn't call the condition VERY GOOD, GOOD is the maximum i would give, but that's just my two cents.
Well, your experience is much greater than mine, so it must be good :)
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Some news:
I gave a check to the monitor yesterday (an Hantarex mtc 900 with ITT tube) connecting it to another cabinet i own. I had arcs from the flyback trasformer, close to the sucker. Even if arching, i had an out of frequency "image", so i suppose the monitor could be reconditioned. Not sure if it will be easy to find such flyback tr (if i remember well mtc 900 are not "standard" as mtc 900/E).
Considering i am not sure that the PCB works and that i need a new harness for the cab, i am going to install a jamma harness, with a 56 pins male-to-male adaptor in witch i will made the connection to the original joust PCB. If my luck will give up, at least i will play that with MAME (only for the time needed to restore the original PCB ;))
So, things to do:
- clean the machine as much as possible DONE
- remove the monitor chassis, inspect it and replace the flyback trasformer; DONE, no need to change the Flyback Trasformer
- install a new jamma harness; DONE
- install a new Power Supply Unit (Switching + isolation trasformer); DONE
- check the original PCB DONE
Suggestions are welcome :)
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The HV "suck" cups are total shit on the Hantarex. Not only do they have a weird two wire set-up, they also used a clear (see-through) plastic that turns hard and brittle after so many years. The one's I have ALL have this. Because of this, the cup doesn't close well anymore. Often, operators tried to "glue" it on, or tried other stuff to make it stick. This stuff can contaminate the area around the cup which can make it arc like you describe. Try to have a clean area around the hole in the CRT and around the cup.
About the syncing: did you try the syncing pots ? It could be (and often is !) as easy as adjusting a pot......
Those HVTs are pretty hard to find, but since you get arcs near the cup, it's probably OK. I was lucky to find one new cup and wire set from the UK once....
In general I don't like these Hantarexes. They are way to complicated in their set-up and construction (too many parts !). If you wand/need to do a cap-lit it's a LOT of caps !
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[...] This stuff can contaminate the area around the cup which can make it arc like you describe. Try to have a clean area around the hole in the CRT and around the cup.
Maybe cleaning the area around the hole will suffice to let it work, but what if someone goes close to the wire? Being very probably the wire plastic cracked, it's not safe, so i will try to find a spare for this ;) (anyhow, i will check for cracks)
About the syncing: did you try the syncing pots ? It could be (and often is !) as easy as adjusting a pot......
When i saw it arching i only gave a fast eye on the monitor, then shut it down immediately (it wasn't my goal to let it sync). I am confident with the fact that a little trimming will suffice to correct this problem-
Those HVTs are pretty hard to find, but since you get arcs near the cup, it's probably OK. I was lucky to find one new cup and wire set from the UK once....
Do you mean that it could suffice to substitute the wire? Nice tip... is it a complex procedure?
[...] If you wand/need to do a cap-lit it's a LOT of caps !
I know: i had an mtc 900/e completely recapped last year: about 25-30 caps!
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Andrè, believe it or not, but after a dry cleaning of the area around the cup... i had no arc at all!! I checked out if there where cracks on the HV cable and suck cup, and they where ok.
The monitor is alive, and still has a great image, i must say! :arrow:
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/422/sam0239slim.jpg)
Thanks for your advices on this!!
If someone know, is there a good way to let that cup firmly adhere to the tube? Can i use some silicon to "glue" it on the tube?
Now, let go for a new (jamma) harness :pac:
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Yesterday a package was delivered to me:
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9766/sam0242slimg.jpg)
Nothing of special, but a complete (used) jamma harness and a switching with additional -5V 1A output (required for the Joust PCB)
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/2518/sam0243slim.jpg)
and a couple of coins introductions my joust was missing
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5510/sam0244slim.jpg)
Now it's time to install the harness :pac:
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I had some time today to work on my Joust. I have installed a couple of introductions (the original where missing)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2181/sam0245slim.jpg)
They fit perfectly but, my bad, are too small to let me use the right coins (100 lire)
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5513/sam0248slim.jpg)
anyhow, i will keep those untill i found a couple of better intros ;)
I also set a good position for the jamma harness, mapping the inputs, power lines, speakers etc (soldering is still to be done: i am trying to see if i have some good M/F connector to have everithing more organised in the case of maintenance)
Inputs from the jamma connector
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/4015/sam0250slim.jpg)
inputs from the control panel
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2297/sam0252slim.jpg)
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Hi all,
yesterday i build up the new power supply unit:
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4338/sam0257slim.jpg)
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8895/sam0258slim.jpg)
I hate using mammuth connector for the 220V, but i had no luck on finding out more "professional" distribution blocks.
I used the original metal base, with only little modifications on the structure (3 holes), but big mods on the electrical part. I kept the old line filter because it looks like impossible to find those blocks here around :?
on the back side:
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1117/sam0259slim.jpg)
In position, with the switching unit i received some days ago:
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/458/sam0261slim.jpg)
Now: smoke test!
No arcs, or rumors or flames ;D: it looks like everithing is ok. Now, let check the voltages from the switching unit
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/517/sam0263slim.jpg)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5539/sam0264slim.jpg)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7363/sam0265slim.jpg)
Oh, no! They are all too high :'( And the pot that controls the 5V regulation is in the lower position :'( :'( :'( (in the higher position i had more than 16V!! This is a problem: i dont want to burn my PCBs!
Do you know if there's something easy i am missing to let that switching work correctly (the substitution is an option, of course)
thanks!!
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I was not sure that substituting the caps of the switching would be sufficinet to recondition it (and no indications came from you dudes :shock: :-*) so i ordered a switching from arcadeshop.de today.
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Not many suggestions to make on the switching power supply. Are you sure your DVM is OK ? It's a bit strange that a switcher gives out such higher voltages.
I just hope it didn't fry anything.....
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Not many suggestions to make on the switching power supply. Are you sure your DVM is OK ? It's a bit strange that a switcher gives out such higher voltages.
I just hope it didn't fry anything.....
The PCB was not connected, so nothing has been fryed ;)
I will try another digital voltmeter, just to be sure it's ok. If it works correctly, do you think that changing the electrolitic capacitors could do something?
Another thing Andrè: i am having some problem finding out a 36 cm neon for the marquee light: AFAYK is it still a produced measure or do i have to change the neon system?
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Testing a switching power supply without anything connected gives you wrong results...
Though I don't think it should measure up to 16 V?
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Another thing Andrè: i am having some problem finding out a 36 cm neon for the marquee light: AFAYK is it still a produced measure or do i have to change the neon system?
fluorecent, not neon! , you know Andre (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=783.msg7047#msg7047) is from the neonpolice right ? ;D
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(http://poplicks.com/images/police-sirens.jpg)
Woo-woo-woooh, YOU'RE BUSTED !
Yes, it's the NEON police here ! Check that thread that Etienne linked to and then let's talk about fluorescent tubes ;D ;D ;D ;D
I was actually waiting for Bruno to post that ;D ;D
First: Not all switchers show wrong voltages when unconnected, I believe the kind of switchers that are commonly used in games are usually OK to measure unloaded.
But it is worth checking out.
Trying another volt meter is a good idea, at least you will know if the meter is right.
36cm......is that the same as the Berzerk size ? If so I still got 3 here (or did I buy two for Muerto, I can't remember ! ) In that case I still have one here.....
The one's I got for the Berzerks are F14T8 type. They are specced as 15" long (that translates to about 38cm.
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I gave a check with another voltmeter and values are still too high (but instead of 16 V i read 13 V). Those cheap voltmeters are good only for continuity checks :?
Having a very good voltmeter at home now (the one i use at work) i will intall a sacrificial videopoker PCB just to have a load and see what the meter displays.
For what concerns the fluorescent tube ;D i can house a 35-38 tube with little modifications but are they so rare? I cannot find those measures here ???
Thanks guys :-*
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I had some read to the power supplyed with a load (the sacrifical videopoker PCB): i can read values that are 0.3V lower with respect to the unload measure, so: 12.7V (too high), 5.3V (borderline), -4.9V (ok)
I suppose i am over the anti-fry tollerances (+-0.1V?)
a strange thing is that my DVM was working today: it gave me the same values of the "superprofessional" DVM... is it possible that the switching requires some time loaded to the 220V before starting operating right?
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I had some read to the power supplied with a load (the sacrifical videopoker PCB): i can read values that are 0.3V lower with respect to the unload measure, so: 12.7V, 5.3V, -4.9V
Those values are perfectly normal for such a switching power supply when tested without any load. Next time make sure you hook up a load at least to +5 V line before testing. A big power resistor would do the job if you don't want to risk using a board.
I suppose i am over the anti-fry tollerances (+-0.1V?)
Power supply tolerance is usually 5% for TTL, so you need to adjust the +5 V output line to stay within such limits when loaded (max 5,25 V). For power supply lines, make sure you use wires with appropriate section otherwise they will not be able to carry the required current.
For such reasons it's better to test the voltages on the test points on board and not on the power supply output. So test there and adjust +5 V line as needed. If adjustment doesn't give expected results, then your power supply is faulty.
a strange thing is that my DVM was working today: it gave me the same values of the "superprofessional" DVM... is it possible that the switching requires some time loaded to the 220V before starting operating right?
Usually no. If this is the case then there are some weak components around or poor connections.
Good luck,
Matteo
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Thanks Matteo. As i wrote, a load WAS connected (an old videopoker PCB) and the 5V modulation potentiometer could not lower those values anymore. What i can state is then that those values are out from the normal operation range
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(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4083/sam0268slimmod.jpg)
And Barito said, "Let there be light," and the marquee lit up. Barito saw that the light was good, and he separated the image of the lit up marquee from the old dead one
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1260/sam0269slimmod.jpg)
Yessss, the marquee light works again! I had to replace the ballast and the starter (less than 5 euro's in total) and, found out the F14T8 florescent tube required (a shop 2 km from my house still have them in stock! approx 9 euros), it was easy to have everithing running...
In addition, today i had the shipping confirmation from arcadeshop.de so next week i will check the jamma harness installed, finally
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Yessss, the marquee light works again! I had to replace the ballast and the starter (less than 5 euro's in total)
@barito light god: where did you get the replacements ballasts? i could need one for my joust 2 and my moon patrol as well!
btw, great work on the joust so far, i'm totally convinced you'll have it up and running shortly! go for gold :)
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Those fluo tubes are 14W, so you can use every ballast with a higher nominal power (a 20 W would suffice, but the one i got has 30W nominal power). I bought it in a specialized shop close to me, but i saw them also at Brico Center (the price at BC was doubled for the ballast, 4X for the starter :o)
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I don't know how it is over there, but with us, DIY stores like Gamma and Karwei always have VERY cheap TL-sets on offer. It's a "complete device" containing ballast, starter holder, starter, tube holder and tube of course all together ready to install, for a mear €7 or something like that. Often the tube is too wide, but these things come apart very easily and can also handle a smaller tube.
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thx for reminding me, where's my brain? now i remember that you had already told me that when you were at my place, andré! i'll have to check this out over the course of the next few days. i think even IKEA carries those complete sets ...
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Must say I love that marquee....if only mine was original :roll:
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I've got an US marquee, but I need the cab to use it ;D.
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a us joust is what i'm looking for as well ;D
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Ully, Andrè, pay attention to those extremely cheap ballast+starter+fluo kits: i have advices that they fail soon
Andrè, i cannot scan my marquee because i have not a scanner, but i saw in an old post that the file of a good scanned Euro Joust marquee was in your hands, isn't it?
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if i knew where to buy only the ballasts, i would do so! simply because it's also more ecological 8)
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Ully, Andrè, pay attention to those extremely cheap ballast+starter+fluo kits: i have advices that they fail soon
Mine are still working fine.
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sorry to hijack this thread again, but now that we've started it, let's end it here :twisted:!
just got back from a visit to two different home depots. i asked them about the ballasts and only a couple of the fluo tubes still have the ballasts installed which i need - and those tube sets cost a fortune (haven't been to ikea though).
here are the specs of the ballasts installed in my joust 2:
14-15-20 watt
115V 50Hz
38 Amps
the moon patrol ballast specs are almost identical.
question 1: because of the 115 V thingy, would a german version even work?
question 2: anyone know an online place (conrad, rs online) where i can order those ballasts?
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Using a ballast designed to work with 230V, you will have no problems connecting it directly to your european 230V line. Tubes should be "universal", meaning that they dont care of the voltage you are using: the ballast will limit the current to the proper value. Ballast can drive different tubes, this is why you have the 14-15-20 Watt indication (those i saw have only the maximum value on them): general rule is to use a ballast with higher or equal power declared with respect to the tube.
I dont know a reliable place where to order them online, sorry
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just found out that those ballasts are called VORSCHALTGERAET in german and rs online (free shipping ;D) carries different versions:
(http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R5274232-01.jpg) or (http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/R4807265-01.jpg)
would one of those work?
they have different "watt versions", ranging from 8W to 58W - (almost) all around the 8 euros mark per unit
http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&Ntt=vorschaltger%C3%A4t&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3Ade%2CsearchDiscon_de%3AN%29&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&N=4294954574+4294916610&binCount=68&binCount=75&Nty=1&Ns=I18NPrc1_de&Nso=0#resultArrow (http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&Ntt=vorschaltger%C3%A4t&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3Ade%2CsearchDiscon_de%3AN%29&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&N=4294954574+4294916610&binCount=68&binCount=75&Nty=1&Ns=I18NPrc1_de&Nso=0#resultArrow)
one sells for only half of it (€4.15) http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=5474248 (http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=5474248) - what's the difference compared to the others?
man, i feel dumb again ;)
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Ully: how much is the lamps? (on the lamps, what is print?)
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Ully: how much is the lamps? (on the lamps, what is print?)
14W
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Go for the 4.15 E, 30W (it's more than sufficient, you could also use a 18-20W but melius abundare quam deficere) ;)
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Go for the 4.15 E, 30W (it's more than sufficient, you could also use a 20W but melius abundare quam deficere) ;)
Ully:from 18W on up (or like said baritonomarchetto 30W).
Correct tht post ;)
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I edited my answer before seeing Flip answer: 152 mm is higher than mine, but refers to the metal base, and 140 mm is the distance from hole to hole, not the width so it's ok
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Go for the 4.15 E, 30W (it's more than sufficient, you could also use a 18-20W but melius abundare quam deficere) ;)
thx for the latin lesson, hadn't heard that proverb in that language in a long time :spaceace:
the difference between the cheaper 30W version and the more expensive one (4 euros compared to 8) seems to be that the first is ferromagnetic and the latter electromagnetic - WHATEVER THAT MEANS ;)
if you guys don't step in and it will do the trick, i'll probably be ordering the cheaper version!
btw, until now all i had to do to get the marquee light working was either change the tube or the starter, but then i get tow games where this doesn't work, so i guess the ballast is indeed the only other option, right?
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Yep!
Or check the cable that take the electricity... ;)
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Ok ok, it's time to link you THE FLUO BIBLE (http://members.misty.com/don/f-lamp.html), have fun ;D
Seriously, in addition to common schemes and FAQs, you will find there also the difference between a ferromagnetic and electromagnetic ballast ;)
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Or check the cable that take the electricity... ;)
wiring is fine, AC reaches the light fixture!
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you will find there also the difference between a ferromagnetic and electromagnetic ballast ;)
i will? ???
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Belive me, go for the magnetic and stop spamming this thread :twisted:
(i am kidding, spam this as far as you want dude :D)
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A package from germany was delivery to me today (only 2 days shipping! It was fast!)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img134/3131/sam0270slimod.jpg)
It does contains various items to feed my arcade hunger
(http://a.imageshack.us/img135/9674/sam0271slim.jpg)
A couple of them are for the joust: a brand new switching
(http://a.imageshack.us/img411/2721/sam0275slim.jpg)
... and a jamma male-male connector to interface the installed jamma harness with the original Joust PCB
(http://a.imageshack.us/img594/1918/sam0277slim.jpg)
Tomorrow morning we will see if the harness is ok... i will check it with a neogeo base... which neogeo game you would prefer to see on the images i will post? I have a good selection of those great games ;)
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Ok, check done, the jamma-rization process was a success! I wanna upload a little video now, but it's 1.3 Gb for less than 60 seconds! Any advice to compress this huge video with virtualdubmod (or any other program)?
thanks
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Quicktime. Open video and upload it straight to Youtube......ahhh I love my Mac.
;D
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Ok, check done, the jamma-rization process was a success! I wanna upload a little video now, but it's 1.3 Gb for less than 60 seconds! Any advice to compress this huge video with virtualdubmod (or any other program)?
thanks
Before my iMac ::) ...I used to do my video clips simply with Windows Movies Maker (included in Windows XP). At the end of the project, you have the possibility to export the result as a file and you can choose compression and/or format.
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Ok, check done, the jamma-rization process was a success! I wanna upload a little video now, but it's 1.3 Gb for less than 60 seconds! Any advice to compress this huge video with virtualdubmod (or any other program)?
thanks
Before my iMac ::) ...I used to do my video clips simply with Windows Movies Maker (included in Windows XP). At the end of the project, you have the possibility to export the result as a file and you can choose compression and/or format.
AHA, so YOU were that one person in the world that actually used that program ! Waha ! Terrible video codecs on that one..... ;)
Played with an iPad today, and man was I drooling.........damn that thing is sexy and FAST !!!
Sorry, back on topic ;D
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Windows Movie Maker is the answer: you can decide the dimensions of the final video and the extention is supported by youtube ;)
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pthYrWZdCzM) is the link
PS: i love neo geo soooo much! :)
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question 1: because of the 115 V thingy, would a german version even work?
No, because they need 220 V AC supply. I would leave the wiring of the cabinet original and buy a US ballast. Try eBay or ask Barry if he can buy some over there and send them to you.
On eBay you can also search for kitchen light fixtures which run on multiple voltages including 115 V AC which is what you need. With those light fixtures you can replace the complete set ballast+holders+tubes. I went this route for some of my cabinets. Here you are some examples: eBay items 120363862799, 140388692445, 160410708345. Watch out for the measures: these are 18" but I've seen also shorter ones. Make sure they fit in your marquee area.
Matteo
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Mmm, I see little harm in moving the wiring from the 110VAC from the transformer to the 230VAC mains. As long as you do it behind a Fuse (REMEMBER ULLY, did you install yours yet on the WOW ? ;) ).
I mean, moving some wires from one connection to another is not actually like harming a cab.
The 230V one's Ully found are cheap _and_ incl. free shipping. I doubt any US option would be cheaper esp. because of shipping.
But if you are extremely anal, or not capable of moving the wires to the 230VAC connection, try to get 110VAC ballasts.
By the way Ully, if you want to go very environmental friendly, get an electronic "ballast". These feed the tube with very high-frequency voltages. This increases the stability of the light (no flicker, if you are already capable of seeing it). It also increases tube life and decreases energy consumption.
The downside ? They cost about 10 times more...... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Seriously, those type of ballasts are only cost-efficient where TL light is on for long time (for instance offices, let's say 10 hrs.per day, 5 days per week, at least). On our cabs, it will hardly make a difference.
Other alternatives: cold-cathode tubes (expensive) or LEDs. I'd still go for TL anytime.
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O and to get back on topic......yes I should have those hi-res scans of the Euro marquee somewhere....
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will those european ballasts work with the stepdown converter i have to use (remember, moon patrol is an american cab)?
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I quote for a substitution of the group ballast+starter for your cabs with "euro-230V" : you can save money for your projects (and the new american ballast will not be original at all :wink:)
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will those european ballasts work with the stepdown converter i have to use (remember, moon patrol is an american cab)?
Again no, unless you find a ballast in europe that runs on 120 V AC.
Matteo
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You can buy 120 Volt ballasts at Jukebox shops, like "Stamann Musikboxen" in .de:
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s34665813.einsundeinsshop.de/sess/utn;jsessionid=154c55b1415e07d/shopdata/0060_Beleuchtung=2C+Schl=FCssel=2C+R=E4der+und+mehr+=28lamps=2C+keys=2C+casters+and+more=29/0030_Starter+und+Vorschaltger=E4te+=28starter+and+ballasts=29/product_overview.shopscript
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cool, thx sascha! is the hz frequency important, there are some with 50 (although not available atm) and some with 60 hz ???
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good question, next question :D
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cool, thx sascha! is the hz frequency important, there are some with 50 (although not available atm) and some with 60 hz ???
60 Hz means that they can work up to 60 Hz. Here in Europe we have 50 Hz lines, so 50 Hz ballast will be fine too. Just make sure you don't mount 50 Hz ballasts and then use the game in USA :)
Matteo
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Enjoying my holidays. this mean more time for my Joust ;D
I have finally completed the jamma-to-williams harness... so it will be time for smoke test soon!
i used this male-to-male jamma connector
(http://a.imageshack.us/img594/1918/sam0277slim.jpg)
and some wires i pre-cut before soldering (upstairs at home, more confortable than the garage ;) )
(http://a.imageshack.us/img409/5775/sam0378slim.jpg)
This is the final harness: looks nice huh? :D
(http://a.imageshack.us/img529/3997/sam0382slim.jpg)
Installed inside the joust... a lot of cables here...
(http://a.imageshack.us/img261/9905/sam0383slim.jpg)
Ok... now take a deep breath and keep your fingers crossed...
The splash screen!
(http://a.imageshack.us/img256/910/sam0387slime.jpg)
... i am so exited! Is it possible that at the first attempt everithing works?! :o
No, it's not :'(
(http://a.imageshack.us/img444/6457/sam0388slim.jpg)
We have an error here... ROM ERROR 6
also the PCB reminds me that there is something wrong :-\
(http://a.imageshack.us/img291/4366/sam0393slim.jpg)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img705/5306/sam0394slim.jpg)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img444/7164/sam0395slim.jpg)
2-0-9 ? Could it be? No, it couldn't it could, but it's not... the fact is that the PCB is mountend upsidedown :lol:
2-0-6 is the error
After the ROM error, i had this image:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img261/6125/sam0386slim.jpg)
Ok, the first thing to do is then reseat the incriminated ROM
(http://a.imageshack.us/img291/3008/sam0397slim.jpg)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img261/3456/sam0399slim.jpg)
Damn little thing!
Something changes! But it is worst: the screen reset continuously on the splash screen... but the PCB reports the error like before...
I am in a stuck now: i have not a programmer and i need someone to burn that ROM for me...
A question at this point: could it be that after putting a new ROM #6 other ROM/RAM errors will be detected, or the initial test reports on screen all the errors at once?
thanks :-*
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first of all: good job so far, you're almost there! :spaceace:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img261/3456/sam0399slim.jpg)
are those GLOVES? :shock:
I am in a stuck now: i have not a programmer and i need someone to burn that ROM for me...
laschek (=sascha) has one, i'm sure he could burn those for you if you pay him in beer ;) (sorry sascha, couldn't resist ;D). whether he's checking all the roms, i don't know, but i guess he does that one after the other and if he's stuck on one he doesn't continue, but as i've said: just a guess!
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laschek (=sascha) has one, i'm sure he could burn those for you if you pay him in beer ;) (sorry sascha, couldn't resist ;D). whether he's checking all the roms, i don't know, but i guess he does that one after the other and if he's stuck on one he doesn't continue, but as i've said: just a guess!
Yes, I might be able to burn that Rom, or even check all the Roms (if they're not 2708's), though I don't accept beer as payment anymore ;D
Did you reseat every socketed IC and check the voltages? If it constantly resets I would increase +5V a bit if possible. Might be as easy as that.
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@Ully: yes, those are gloves; i use them almost every time i work on my machines for security: they give me some cut protection and a (very little) shock protection.
@Sascha: i only reseat that ROM #6 because of the test indicate that one was bad: i will reseat the other one, also. For the voltage, at first (before reseating the ROM) the PCB didn't reseats... i will try an increase, anyhow, than i will contact you in PM for the "ROM furniture details" ;) :D
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I assumed that the "ROM ERROR 6" must be attributed to the video rom 6 (it was in front of me and had "6" on it, so... :oops:), but the ROM board has 12 ROMs, enumerated from 1 to 12... so i will reset them all and see what happens :pac:
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Unluckily even reseating all the 12 ROMs of the ROM board (after a good wet cleaning) didn't change the functionality: i still have the "ROM ERROR 6" on the screen... i am seriously evaluating the possibility of buying a cheap eprom programmer...
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Is the +5V voltage on the ROMs OK ?
Sometimes people measure the +5V on the power supply, but you have to measure it on the board.
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I measured 5V on the pins of the ROM board and are perfect :'( :)
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An EPROM burner (and an UV lamp) is on it's way to my house (i will receive it tomorrow or the day after)... any advice on the file i can use to burn the old EPROM? Are MAME files "ready to burn" or do they need special threatments? I am so close to my goal now :pac: :pac: :pac:
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Some new dudes: this morning the programmer was delivered to me! I had just check all the ROMs of the OM board and... they are all verified! :-\
I really don't see the prob at this point... what could it be? I WANNA PLAY MY JOUST! ;D
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Buy a JROK Multi-Williams board :)
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probably a good idea, unfortunately this doesn't work for joust 2 (vertical orientation)!
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Totally different hardware too so impossible....
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Buy a JROK Multi-Williams board :)
Thanks for the idea, but it's the most expensive way (and i am a MAME fan ;))
No ideas on how to let this board work? :-*
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A couple of new images ;)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img818/9997/sam0501slim.jpg)
YES! IT'S THE "EVERITHING IS WORKING FINE" ZERO :o
and...
(http://a.imageshack.us/img843/9820/sam0503slim.jpg)
;D
I had a little crimp to the connector from the CPU board (it was suggested to me on KLOV forum) AND i burned a new ROM 6 (fortunately i had a spare 2732 from another board. I don't know which of the two operations lead to the result, but actually i don't want to "wake up the sleeping dog" reseating the old ROM
OK, the new problem (so close, but so far): the game doesn't start after the splash screen... it gives me this image on the screen
(http://a.imageshack.us/img261/6125/sam0386slim.jpg)
...and doesn't start... what's the prob now? consider that i have not the batteries on the cpu...
tha-thanks!! :D
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don't you have those service switches to "zap" through the bookkeeping menu? without pressing the right "combination" on those switches and without the battery, you won't be able to leave that screen - at least that's how defender is set up!
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Yup, I remember you zapped through it in some excitement when I had installed the back-up battery on your Defender board Ully.....and I was totally unaware because I didn't know the heck what it was all about ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Install a Lithium "button" battery on the board baritonomarchetto and you´ll be ready to play !
Congrats, love to see an original board/set working !
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I had a little crimp to the connector from the CPU board (it was suggested to me on KLOV forum)
perhaps i should give that CRIMP to my joust 2 connectors as well. i also get the ZERO in the LED display, but the game doesn't even start the rom test :(
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One step further: i have removed the old batteries older... now i must find a CR2032 and holder...
(http://a.imageshack.us/img576/9050/sam0508slim.jpg)
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Dudes, today i installed a cr2032 battery, but i am still missing something...
I had to install the battery without holder (i made the soldering directly, but firmly, on the battery) (notice that the pcb is upside-down and only the black cable coming from the positive hole and going to the battery is connected)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img713/8176/sam0517slim.jpg)
Even if the 3 V are supplied, nothing changes: if i restart the machine, i have the bookeeping reset and the game doesn't start.
In addition surfing the "advance" menu, i have this:
(http://a.imageshack.us/img375/6325/sam0516slim.jpg)
... maybe some wiring is missing? I have not connected the switching on the front door and the back door, so the message sounds odd to me...
thanks for the help :)
EDIT: my wiring was missing the "memory protect interlock" connection from the CPU board to the coin door: when the coin door is open, that switch is open, when the coin door is closed, the memory protect connection is grounded...
The game shows the high score table for a second, then restart... i have checked the voltage supplied and it's ok (5V).
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(http://a.imageshack.us/img713/8176/sam0517slim.jpg)
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I hope the battery is still working because they can't stand a load of heat for very long....soldering batteries is generally not recommended.
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I know it's not a state-of-the-art work, but i had no choice. Anyhow, the 3.1V can be measured between the terminals, so it is still working.
I read somewhere that these boards have a very wide range of voltage functionality, but are very selective: some board works with less than 5 V, others with up to 5.3V. I checked all the range my switching can give me (4.8 to 5.4V) but i still have the reset (and that cmos error when the advance test is performed).
Don't know what to do now :'( :)
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dont you have a old pc motherboard around ?
last week i cut out this battery holder when i had an old MB
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The original Williams battery holders are C-R-A-P !
Replacing it with a lithium battery is very smart because it will be good for at least 10 years. And won't leak, like regular batteries do.
I prefer to use a holder though :P
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I have substituted the previous bad-to-see work using an home-made holder. Aestetically is better, but the functionality doesn't change: the board resets when the "Daily Buzzards" is shown.
I made almost everithing in my hands (something more considering that i have bought an EPROM programmer). I have no more resources, maybe i should "surrender to the dark side of the (MAME) force"
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I have no more resources, maybe i should "surrender to the dark side of the (MAME) force"
(http://forums.daedalusx64.com/download/file.php?id=718)
you can always send the board off to someone for repairs!
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In the last month i have worked hard on my Joust: it's time to play now!
No, no, i have not fixed the original PCB (even if this board testify that i tryed, at least), but i connected a MAME PC on it. No frontend, fast load (i used advanceCD installed on a 1Gb HDD on my pentium 3 400 MhZ with Joust running before the frontend loads)... i also could install Joust 2, but it's not as good as the first one is (no offence Ully, i am kidding :D: Joust 2 is a great game, but i wanted the game to load authomatically). The process was very fast (i put a Jamma harness on my harness-less machine: this lets me use an original board, with an interface harness i prepared, or a MAME PC interchangebly).
And here is a short video of the cabinet up and running :) (obviously, waiting for the original PCB to be repaired by me or substituted... damn, i was so close)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ONSEBT9mqk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ONSEBT9mqk)
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Looks cool! ;)
Btw. can you measure the marquee, the bezel and the cpo dimensions for me, I'm just curious if it fits with my strange Joust. ;)
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Yes!!! At least you can enjoy the game and take some fun with it :)
Advance Mame rulez for such purpose ;)
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Yes!!! At least you can enjoy the game and take some fun with it :)
Advance Mame rulez for such purpose ;)
+1 :lol:
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Btw. can you measure the marquee, the bezel and the cpo dimensions for me, I'm just curious if it fits with my strange Joust. ;)
Sure i can dude: the marquee is 58x15 cm, the bezel is approx 58x52. Obviously the cpo is 58 cm large ;)
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Btw. can you measure the marquee, the bezel and the cpo dimensions for me, I'm just curious if it fits with my strange Joust. ;)
Sure i can dude: the marquee is 58x15 cm, the bezel is approx 58x52. Obviously the cpo is 58 cm large ;)
Thanks a lot! ;D
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4 month have passed since my last post on this topic... in these months i have tried to resurrect my original PCB in the Joust cab without success... UNTILL TODAY! Yea baby yea! The game now plays it's original PCB and i am proud of it :lol:
This goal required substituting some bad component, battery mod(s), recrimping of all sort, resoldering of lost connections, reseating of chips, reburning of ROMs, substitution of CMOS... in addition i had some prolem with the monitor (also solved today with a brand new filtering big capatior) aaaaaaaand... it was worth it!
OK, i will turn my telephone off for some days... i NEED to play NOW :D
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great news! if only i could get the speech problem on my J2 solved ...
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Wow that's what I call dedication !!!
Does the sound work 100% too ?
If not: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=165326
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Wow that's what I call dedication !!!
Does the sound work 100% too ?
If not: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=165326
Sure, everithing works 100% :pac: