Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: level42 on December 06, 2009, 12:01:15 AM
-
I guess most of you guys read about the amazing find of Three very nice looking and complete Berzerks.
This is a historic picture as it is the last moment (well, very likely) that the Three were together. I had some hard time letting them separate as you can see :)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/4125337600_7613f0314c_b.jpg)
Anyway, I've been working on all the ZPU boards to get at least one of them running. Running "on the bench" would mean three flashes by the LED. I've reached that stage on one board, but will have to bypass the reset circuit to let it happen.
Now, I was looking at a board-set that was on offer in the US e-bay for only 100 bucks BIN. A very decent price for a complete Berzerk board-set. Seller mentioned it was pulled from a working machine quite some time ago and indeed the pics showed the nice blue color of the terrible acid that leaks out of the batteries. Got into contact with the seller and got some confirmations he was OK. Asked him to remove the battery ASAP which he did. The leaks were kept in a relatively small area around the battery, it looked like the board was lying down when it started to leak. Most boards are in the cab, and thus vertical when leaking starts and so the acid does much more damage.
The owners of the Three agreed on buying the board-set together. We thought we could probably use several boards between eachother and at least give it a good chance to get all Three running...
Now finding Three Berzerks (in Europe !) is already simply amazing,but right after I ordered the above mentioned board-set, there were Three _working_ board-sets offered on the KLOV forum ! One was kind of reserverd, but thanks to a great tip I was fast enough to get hold of 2 of the 3 sets. After some days I was actually offered the third set too, but we had to act quickly.
Again all owners agreed and the Three boardsets were bought. Tested.Working.
SO.....I bet I will have the largest concentration of Berzerk PCBs in Europe within a couple more days :)
Today the first set I mentioned arrived safely. Of course first thing was checking the acid damage:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4385/web.jpg?ver=12600524670001)
As mentioned, not too bad. The area is relatively small (which is good) but the intensity has been pretty hard. Again an indication that the board was flat during most of the leaking period.
Here's a close up:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4386/web.jpg?ver=12600524640001)
Now, the way to fight that acid and make sure it turns into something harmless (neutralize it) we need a little chemical experiment. I use some "cleaning vinegar" as we call it (it's the kind you don't put on your salad). Normally you can see some tiny bubbles when you poor a little vinegar onto the bad parts, but this time it looked like a complete shower of tiny bubbles ! Pretty fun to watch. I was a bit late to film it, but this was a little bit after that moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDi--jrAdk
After the reaction has stopped, it's time to rinse the part of the board where the vinegar "hit" with lots of water. Then of course drying with paper towel and wife's hair dryer :D
Next step is to scrape away the plastic layer that has turned into crud. This normally covers the copper tracks but the bad places have to go. This means some tedious scraping away. Here's a first try. Not to happy with it yet, but it's ready for a test now....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4390/web.jpg?ver=12600524700001)
Well allmost.
This little fellow caught my eye and I had a feeling that it might not be entirely in working condition anymore:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4391/web.jpg?ver=12600524980001)
Of course I replaced it (had bough a couple already for the repairs).
Sad thing is that my Berzerk is still in temporary storage. Hope to get it out by monday so I can do some testing.
And, of course, we are in glad expectation of the 3 working board-sets !
I hope to fix all the boards in the end. That would make some nice spares.
-
Then of course drying with paper towel and wife's hair dryer :D
@One of Three: do you have your own personal hair dryer? ;)
anyway, YES, the Berzerks will rise again soon ... :twisted:
Two of Three
-
Then of course drying with paper towel and wife's hair dryer :D
@One of Three: do you have your own personal hair dryer? ;)
You've seen my hair. (or more: lack of it !) It's dry within 10 seconds after washing ! :D
Yesterday another mysterious box from the US arrived:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4422/web.jpg?ver=12606107170001)
LOOK IT'S EVIL OTTO ALREADY CYNICALLY SMILING AT ME !!!!
Now, what could this be ?
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4423/web.jpg?ver=12606107240001)
(ALL boards were bubble-wrapped very well. Removed them here from the ZPU boards already).
The repaired boards are still in the sealed anti-static bag !
More pics in about an hour...
-
Cool :P Evil OTTO is watching you ;D
(http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/scary/otto.jpg)
:spaceace:
-
Yeah, I even thought I heard a little voice saying "The humanoid must not escape !" when I opened the box !
-
Uhm.....thought you guys might wanted to see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReK6RaSQi-Q&feature=youtube_gdata
YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!
The video looks very crappy but the picture is like new in real !!!!
This is with three boards from the sets I received. That means the other boards are still OK (voice, sound and interface).
Also, the joystick works but it's very hard to hit diagonals.
I have to say I also had one ZPU board only giving one flash/beep...... yikes !
More testing tonight !!!!!
-
Just reconnected my own VFB board and it still works. So only two boards were dead on my machine.
-
YES!!!!!!! WEEEEEH!!!!!!
cant wait to get mine up and running!!!!!
-
Damn, 2 of the 3 ZPU's work 100%, 1 gives only 1 beep/flash....
Let's see if I can find the problem....
-
YES !!!
i'm sure you'll have the final boardset up and running soon, too! thx a lot andré, you're doing a wonderful job here :spaceace:
p.s.: do i see a berzerk machine in your house? ;)
-
Hahaha, see who's the boss here ! :D
First had to promise it was only for the weekend, now it can stay until before x-mas.....
Wife said it was looking great ! (She hadn't seen the Berzerks before ! :D
-
Gotta love how the speaker plops when the voice synth is turned on and off.....those were the days....no-one cared about it then :D
The ZPU board that is not running gives one beep/flash which means a ROM problem. Weird, because on this one all the EPROMs are new. Freshly burned. Also some of the sockets have been replaced. I bet it gave ROM problems before....
I'll try to swap in a set of the EPROMs from one of my original boards and see what happens....
This is going to be a LONG evening....testing all the boards....gotta mark them first or I will get lost !
:D
-
Yikes after been only on for an hour or two I lost the voice.....rats !
-
Yikes after been only on for an hour or two I lost the voice.....rats !
you shouldn't shout that much at your wife ... oops, i see, berzerk lost its voice ;)
-
Well I swapped in another voice board and it kept working fine for the rest of the evening.....
What I've been doing this night ? Not testing....
I've actually set-up a small database in Bento 3 (it's great!) for all the Berzerk boards I have flying around here !
I seriously was starting to loose track about which was which, so I thought before that would _really_ happen I'd better catalogue them !
Made pics of every single board and am now (and tomorrow ) in the process of entering everything.
I need this so I can do a thorough and consistent testing of each and every board.
Results tomorrow night !
-
WAAAAHHOOOOOO !!!
Just tested the spare board that I was given by the seller with the Berzerk cab deal. I tried to fix it but couldn't get it to give three beeps while testing it with a PC power supply. I had to short one of the transistors in the reset circuit to get the three beeps/flashes.
So I figured what the heck, and let's try it in a proper machine and YES it works 100% !!!!!
Apparently there's something about the voltages starting to quickly or something like that with a PC power supply.
This gives me good hope for some of the other ZPU boards too !!!
-
wow!
you are the man! - me and ully are in debt to you for doing this!!!!
-
HUGELY in debt !
I've been lying on the kitchen floor for most part of the day, swapping boards and more boards !
But by far the hardest part is the testing itself. I mean, does the joystick work, can I kill all those robots, can I escape from the "friendly" smile of Evil Otto ? and can......uh I mean testing the boards ;D
So far, I've got a bad voice board and a bad BSC board from the set of 3.... ::)
-
HUGELY in debt !
I've been lying on the kitchen floor for most part of the day, swapping boards and more boards !
HHHUUUGGGEEELLLYYY in debt!
but here's what you could do: before going down on the kitchen floor, apply some cleaning agent on your clothes and it will be your wife who's in your debt from now on ;)
-
but here's what you could do: before going down on the kitchen floor, apply some cleaning agent on your clothes and it will be your wife who's in your debt from now on ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Hahaha ! ;D
You can bet it's clean before I hit it :)
Sorry, guys, back to work !
-
Level42,
If you find a good replacement for the cables - please let me know :-) They are the worst cables I have ever seen, they break in the middle and cause my game to not always work :-(
Oliver
-
Alpha1, find me the Amplifone boards and I send you as many replacement Berzerk cables as you want ! ;) ;) ;)
Seriously, I stole the idea to buy a SCSI cable and cut it up from here:
http://www.wowway.com/%7Eookpik72/brl.html
Of course you have to sand the sides a bit to make them fit. Also since SCSI is 50 pins (and you use only the top half), so this leaves 2 unused pins on one side.)
I got the SCSI "tower" cable with 8 connectors from a large on-line computer seller which happens to be "around the corner" from me for only 9 Euro's:
http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Kabels_U-SCSI/Advance_Peripherals/SCSI-tower-kabel/-1002674/?tn=HARDWARE&l1=Kabels&l2=U-SCSI
From one cable you can make 4 flat-cables, so you need more if you need to replace more of them.
-
Wow.....finished !
I tested ALL the boards (except the RCR boards, which are simply resistors and caps).
Well, the mission succeeded. We've got 3 working board-sets ! Plus a good number of working other boards.
Some of the defective boards will be relatively easy to fix (RAM replacement). Others, maybe not so easy.
Anyway, the goal is reached. Now, we need to get the board-sets to Denmark and Germany :D
-
not much to say other than...
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :!:
-
those results are nice christmas presents for the three of you !
dedication an patience are the keywords here
-
Yeah, but you forget one word:
LUCK !
Don't forgot how insanely lucky we were finding 3 complete, unconverted Berzerk cabs in nice condition AND find 3 working board-sets a couple of weeks later.......or maybe it's not luck but the Arcade Gods smiling at us ;D ;D ;D
-
Nice work André, I would love to play Berzerk some time at your place.
-
fabulous work, andré! the other two stooges can't thank the main stooge enough for your efforts. when you come over to my place, we can compare the vectrex version with the real arcade experience side by side ;)
once again, THANK YOU and of course :spaceace:
-
I'd love to play some Vectrex. Back in the day, I thought it was a stupid black-and-white system and didn't see the point of that monitor with only lines on the screen ! Waahahahahah, have I changed my mind :)
I've done it all for the love of saving the machines, getting them alive again and making some nuts like me happy :)
Now......we need some Frenzy boards....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Now......we need some Frenzy boards....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
better: three frenzy cabinets 8)
-
Now......we need some Frenzy boards....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
better: three frenzy cabinets 8)
This was mine :D
http://www.arcadeoll.com/pics/StuffForSale/Frenzy/
I sold it as part of getting money for my house. I'm sure the person I sold it too might sell it on if you are interested. I can speak to them?
Oliver
-
Sometimes I hate this hobby.
I just completely dissassembled the original Berzerk joystick. It was working OK, but the diagonals were either not working or very hard to "reach". So I thought the reflective disk must be dirty and so a little cleaning would solve that.
Indeed the disc wasn't very shiny anymore. So I cleaned it simply with some hand-soap and paper-towel and it was like a mirror again.
I also noticed that a cap had either broken loose (it was also dented) or cut loose on the joystick PCB. So I replaced it.
Re-assembled everything, put it in the CP, power up machine and:
Dead. Completely dead joystick ! WTF ! :evil: :evil:
SO sigh, gonna disassemble again.
I'm pretty much out on my own here. Apart from the Berzerk manual. Original Berzerk joysticks are RARE.
-
It's good to blow off some steam now and then. This hobby can be frustrating indeed, like my DK monitor chassis which suddenly broke down last week (a replacement is already on its way). I'm only into cab collecting for a few months now, but I already know that this hobby will always be a mix of restoration work, gaming fun and repair jobs, which is normal of course as we have to deal with old cabs and old electronics.
But as it was working before I'm sure that you will soon find and fix the problem.
-
On the other hand,I'm not the kind to give up easily....
Indeed I had made a mistake while re-assembling. The optical PCB was too far from the reflective disc because I had mounted it incorrectly.
Fixed it and it works great now. Diagonals are 100% better then before..... Still not too wild on this joystick. It's definitely not the best I've ever played....
The spring was pretty tight on this one. I felt it was more of a muscle exercise machine than a game so I adjusted the spring tension to it's minimum. Let's see how I like that.
Still, hitting the end of the joystick's movement space is not feeling very comfy because there are no rubber stops or anything like that.... o well...part of the game I guess....
-
Here's the disc "before":
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4527/web.jpg?ver=12613477740001)
and "after":
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4529/web.jpg?ver=12613477820001)
Also, sometimes in this hobby, you just DON'T want to know what it is..:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4526/web.jpg?ver=12613477760001)
I guess it's the "crud" often mentioned as being the cause for this joystick to fail. The stuff probably fell down on the optical sensors on the PCB. Not in this case though.
Might just as well post the other pics I made. The CP underside after removing the joystick, luckily Leaf-switches only ! They only need some cleaning. And the buttons need to be replaced. Look at that branch-part in the wood, the branch was removed and replaced with something.....ahhh those were the days :D:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4521/web.jpg?ver=12613477730001)
The outer "casing" of the joystick. Apart from holding the spring, this also doubles as a "dark room" for the optics...The rust came loose already with some hand soap and scrubbing sponge. Will do a proper job later.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4522/web.jpg?ver=12613477840001)
The stick and the optical board. The optical board hangs up side down (parts facing the floor)
For those who don't know how this joystick works: Infrared light is emitted by the four little black opto-combo's around the hole in the PCB. The disc on the other side of the joystick will reflect the light (more) when it's move in the position that that opto-combo is. The reflected lights falls onto the other part of the opto-combo (the photo-diode) and through the Op-Amp chip the PCB "emulates" a closed switch for that direction.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4523/web.jpg?ver=12613477810001)
Here's how I INCORRECTLY re-assembled it. The nuts should have gone UNDER the PCB and then the two hex legs should go on top of the PCB. You can see the disc is now quite (too) far away from the PCB now.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4531/web.jpg?ver=12613477790001)
You can see the damaged/leaking/broken off cap on the top left on the PCB.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4525/web.jpg?ver=12613477710001)
-
AAAAAAHHHHHH, the sweet taste of success !!!!
After some serious struggling, I succeeded at installing a lithium battery on one of the Berzerk boards and get it working ! (Details here: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=114762 )
The thing is, that the boards start up with some random number of credits, but also a random number of hi-scores. The (hex) value is so high that it's impossible to break even the 5th position.
So I had to clear the memory ! Finally I realized there HAD to be a way to do it, and of course there is, found it in the service manual (page 14). Score board cleared, game played, hi-score entered, power cycle and YES we have a battery-backed up hi-score table ! :D
The competition between the Three stooges can begin (almost !).
I just want to replace the diode I installed (a normal one) with a schottky as was suggested by Mark Spaeth, since this has a much lower voltage drop. This may extend the life time of the lithium cell a bit. The great thing of using a lithium cell is that it should last about 10 years and is very easy to replace without any soldering.
There's still a change of one of those babies leak though (although very minor) so it should be checked every year or so).
Ully and Muerto I will have to order two more batteries and holders, I guess you agree ? It's only a couple of Euro's each.
-
hehe i agree! - and grrrrreat work!
btw, did you get my "present"? from the mailman..
-
no doubt about it - i absolutely agree!
-
Heh, I actually already ordered because I knew what you were going to say :)
I hope to receive the stuff before x-mas, but I'm sorry it will be a Berzerk-less x-mas for you both.
Muerto, yes I received it, thanks very much, quite stupid of me to forget it in your car, but it was a long day ;)
Also Michael, I will send you the board-set thursday. You get the ZPU with the already installed battery so you can have it ASAP. Of course x-mas will slow shipping I fear.
Not sure if I still have your address, please PM me.
Oh, and the ZPU I will send has a temporary goal for you to beat :D (But I'm not actually a great player as you've seen on my Galaxian :D).
Merry X-mas friends !
-
Some thoughts:
1) I think one of the machines actually had a working marquee lighting. Mine actually still works (original American GE tube, weird size) when I hold it in a certain position. I checked it and two pins are broken (caused by a terribly mounted holder on one side).
The tube type is F14T12CW. I've only seen this thickness of tube on much longer tubes (and esp. older one's).
I wonder if it can be replaced with a T8 tube ? Even then the length (15") is hard to find here. Did you guys check this out already ?
2) The Stern logo coin door sticker will need replacement after restoring the coin door. I found a Stern logo sticker at Phoenix arcades, but this is a different kind. Did you find any replacement ?
-
1) I think one of the machines actually had a working marquee lighting. Did you guys check this out already ?
nope, haven't even removed the marquee ;)
2) The Stern logo coin door sticker will need replacement after restoring the coin door. I found a Stern logo sticker at Phoenix arcades, but this is a different kind. Did you find any replacement ?
nope 2, i've already looked for it as well. actually, my coin door isn't bad at all, only rust on the screws, so i'm not sure whether i'm going to have it repainted.
-
have you guys pre-ordered your replacement control panel yet? if not, do so, production run won't start until the guy hits 50 pre-orders!
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=115406 (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=115406)
http://www.tokensonly.com/berzerk-and-frenzy-control-panel-pre-order/ (http://www.tokensonly.com/berzerk-and-frenzy-control-panel-pre-order/)
-
I have all ready ordered, and payed...
-
Hey I didn't know he opened up yet ! Will do after x-mas !
The first tested working and battery modded PCB set is on it's way to the North-Pole (well, almost ;) ).
I'm sure x-mas will delay it somewhat but I hope Muerto will have it before the year ends.
I'm really anxious to see his Berzerk running too !
I've just ordered some TL tubes from my favorite supplier (RS online, they're incredible, stuff they have in stock gets delivered the NEXT day and even for tiny orders no shipping costs). Anyway, I ordered these tubes:
http://nl.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=searchProducts&searchTerm=f14t8&x=0&y=0#
They are delivered from Allied Electronics in the US. The price is so low I thought I could take a gamble. AFAIK, this is the correct tube. Wattage, length and color are the same. Only the diameter differs, but those thick T12 TL's are almost extinct AFAIK. The pins on the sides should be the same so I should be able to click one right in.
-
I've just ordered some TL tubes from my favorite supplier (RS online, they're incredible, stuff they have in stock gets delivered the NEXT day and even for tiny orders no shipping costs).
NO SHIPPING COSTS AT ALL?? :shock:
couldn't resist, had to check mine. i've got the same tube type: F14T12CW
@andré: if i understand this correctly, rs online is just for people with a business, right? do you think it would be possible to add another tube (better: two - one as a replacement) to your order? you could bring them along when you're coming over in january! :)
-
Since shipping is free anyway, I will simply order two more ! :D
(Maybe they will combine it since it will be coming from the US).
I can't understand how they can do it.
And yes you need a chamber of commerce number.
-
It is done, my friend.
I actually was able to change the order. :)
-
I'm keeping my restoration thread on the BYOAC forum here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=97846.0
Something I noticed: The screws/bolts used to mount the PCB's on the tray are exactly the same size as used for PC cases ! Since the original screws mostly don't have a phillips or normal screwdriver cut into the head, you have to remove them with a hex tool, but of course they are imperials sized. So used pliers, but of course they are very tight after all those years and it's very clumsy to have to use pliers.
So, I'm planning on buying these:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16111
(Note these guys don't have any shipping costs either !)
These don't require any tool so great if you need to replace PCB's regularly (I still will have to repair (or at least try) some of the PCBs).
-
So, I'm planning on buying these:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16111
i'm in for 3 sets if you order them and if you don't mind hoping on board ;)
-
Looks like they're out of stock now but any PC store that has a bit of case-modding stuff should have them too.
I'll keep an eye on these though as dealextreme is usually very cheap (also a good cheap source for basic thermal grease).
We just came home from family x-mas visit so have been away for about 8 hours and to my shock I noticed I had left the Berzerk running. Luckily it was still running happily in attract mode :)
No fires or defective PCBs :D
Good test :)
I must say I love the game. Again, the arcade version is so much more appealing than the one I used to play on my Atari homecomputer. Even though that was almost a spot-on conversion (including voice), there's just something about a real machine that you can't explain.
It's that whole bunch of PCB's and TTL chips (knowing your wrist-watch has more processing power today) is bringing you that fabulous game. It's the dead simple graphics with the robots and player so clearly built up out of pixels......you just have to love it....
I do want to look if I can improve the joystick though. Hitting the diagonals is still not "a breeze" which it needs to be if you want to get some serious hi-scoring. I'm convinced that you can get higher scores with a better stick. I'm not talking about the top side of course.
I've been thinking of using a Suzo Inductive base. It would be cool as it keeps the same feel completely, yet will improve dramatically on the diagonals.
We'll see about that later though. My goal is to completely restore the machine this x-mas holiday. Not that it needs that much work but still, we all know how it goes, it's almost always more work than you think before you begin.
I will be at home with my son for quite some days because my wife has to work so that gives me some good time to spend on it. It's also now in the kitchen which is a much better place to work on the machine than in the gameroom.
-
We just came home from family x-mas visit so have been away for about 8 hours and to my shock I noticed I had left the Berzerk running. Luckily it was still running happily in attract mode :)
No fires or defective PCBs :D
Good test :)
Phew! - i bet your hart jumped when you saw it was running!
but- as you said - good test indeed!
-
Yeah, I walked into the kitchen and saw a blueish glow and instantly realized what had happened ;)
Incidentally, we were at my sister-in-law and while there her dishwasher blew itself up ! I heard some weird noise from the kitchen and I could see the LED's on the panel go all crazy and crackling noises and then smoke !
Wow ! At least it shows, never run anything electrical when you're away (unless really necessary). This also reminds me about smoke detectors, because we have a timer on our dishwasher and we run it at night time (cheaper electricity) but what if this would happen then !?!?!?
OK, off topic, but I just want to say, turn off your machines when going away ! :D
-
2) The Stern logo coin door sticker will need replacement after restoring the coin door. I found a Stern logo sticker at Phoenix arcades, but this is a different kind. Did you find any replacement ?
Solved:
(http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/images/Stern%20coin%20door%20decal.jpg)
Available here:
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/forsale/decals.html
Shipping would be a whopping 12 bucks for something light and tiny like this which seems a bit steep. Contacted the seller to see if that's correct. Three stooges, do we team up for one each ? Also, I definitly need to replace the buttons on my CP. I plan on ordering some stuff from Bob Roberts so if you guys need those buttons too (red and white long leaf buttons e-clip type) let me know (and if you need anything else).
But I'll ask around with some people in the pinball scene if they have them locally first...
-
OK, no local source for those stickers. Ully and Michael, do we team up for the stickers and buttons ? Please PM me....
I also updated my Berzerk restoratoin thread on BYOAC forum:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=97846.msg1046763#msg1046763
Check it out, replacement speaker selected and drawer board partially restored...
Inside the 3 Berzerks I recently found, there were also 3 envelopes and each contained a full set of documentation.
Apart from the schematics, instruction cards in various languages (English, German, French, Dutch) and a monitor schematic, there was also of course the manual.
However, I soon found out that the manual was nothing more than a bunch of photo copies of what looks like the concept for the actual manual.
The first thing (and maybe the biggest thing) to notice is that the "cover" is hand-drawn in a rough sketch style. Also, the text with the drawings are hand-written and the pages with texts look like they came from a typewriter.
Here's the cover of the concept manual:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202009-12-29-20om-2000-46-11/web.jpg?ver=12620441180001)
Here's the cover of the "final" manual:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202009-12-29-20om-2000-46-47/web.jpg?ver=12620441190001)
Also, the trouble-shooting section (explaining about the beeps) is only a very short list of possible causes, compared to the elaborate explanations on the version of the manual that I have found at several sources on the internet.
Although there is not much more (actually, less) info in this manual, I thought it would be interesting from an archival and collecting point of view.
The machines I found had relatively early serial nrs. (in the 2000 and 3000) so it looks like Stern put in some pre-production manuals with the early games. Maybe also because these were shipped to Europe ? (Transport time).
Anyway, I scanned it and here is the PDF:
http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=3605&mode=search (http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=3605&mode=search)
Again, if you look for troubleshooting info and better quality, get the other manual here:
http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=1229&mode=search (http://files.arcadecontrols.com/details.php?image_id=1229&mode=search)
-
OK, no local source for those stickers. Ully and Michael, do we team up for the stickers and buttons ? Please PM me....
guess what ... I'M IN!!! ;)
I also updated my Berzerk restoratoin thread on BYOAC forum:
Check it out, replacement speaker selected and drawer board partially restored...
wonderful job on the drawer board. did you do that with sanding paper (which grit?) alone? any special treatment afterwords? mine will have to wait, i want to have the defender and the paperboy up and running by the end of the holidays.
regarding the speaker: i'm not sure yet if i'm going to replace that, because it's not an original part!
-
I´m in to! ;D
-
i want to have the defender and the paperboy up and running by the end of the holidays.
[Off-topic mode on]
I cant wait for the documented reports ully ;)
[Off-topic mode off]
-
OK, no local source for those stickers. Ully and Michael, do we team up for the stickers and buttons ? Please PM me....
guess what ... I'M IN!!! ;)
I also updated my Berzerk restoratoin thread on BYOAC forum:
Check it out, replacement speaker selected and drawer board partially restored...
wonderful job on the drawer board. did you do that with sanding paper (which grit?) alone? any special treatment afterwords? mine will have to wait, i want to have the defender and the paperboy up and running by the end of the holidays.
regarding the speaker: i'm not sure yet if i'm going to replace that, because it's not an original part!
Yep a sanding disc that I just happened to have around. After that a "Brillo" wash/scrub sponge. And a lot of elbow grease :D
About the speaker, I guess it's just my thing. Guess you saw my speakers at home, nothing but the best sound (that I can afford) for me ! :D
I also replaced the speakers (well half of them, yet) on my SW cockpit.....
Maybe not original, but nobody will see it. But even more HEAR it ! :D
-
regarding the speaker: i'm not sure yet if i'm going to replace that, because it's not an original part!
Ahum ? Cough, cough !
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/3861739146_4ac66bf0fc_b.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Ahum ? Cough, cough !
thx for pointing that out, andré! ;)
of course i agree with you: while i want to have a machine as original as possible, sometimes you have to make choices to improve on original "flaws" like YOUR speakers or MY t-molding or the positioning of DK instruction stickers 8)
-
Noooooo, the speaker is an improvement, your T-molding is a compromise.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just teasing you my friend. Would you want some of the correct stuff? Just say yes or no, no questions.
-
Would you want some of the correct stuff? Just say yes or no, no questions.
i'm tempted, but i've seen the original t-molding on the toobin' and the flat black version i've used looks so much better than "the correct stuff" - so i'm going to stick with it. but thx for the offer!
btw, i've sent you an email yesterday regarding the BR stuff ...
-
OK ! Yeah saw the e-mail, replied to it half-way (concept). Hope to finish tomorrow :)
Anyway, the coin-door decals are on their way.
Michael, any BR stuff you need ?
Also, are we going to replace the T-molding? The stuff on the Berzerk actually looks a lot like the repro stuff I have ordered before at t-molding.com
I plan on replacing it, there are a number of bad spots. We could once again team up. For Michael, that would be one shipment to Denmark (decals, buttons & other BR stuff and T-molding).
Just shout :D
-
actually, my t-molding is not bad at all, so i will leave at it is.
and i thinking to switch the fluorescent tube + holder with a new one..... what are your opinion on that?
but if you find a Bat stick, please ship that to... ::)
-
Well, I ordered the correct size (I HOPE !) TL tubes through RSonline. They will be sourced from their US partner, so it takes a bit longer to arrive, but no shipping costs :) I hope to receive 6 tubes total, so there should be some left for you. Shipping is a nightmare though I guess, wonder how they will be shipped here....
Changing tube size is no option. Unless you replace the wood support that holds all the lighting stuff.
-
Changing tube size is no option. Unless you replace the wood support that holds all the lighting stuff.
By changing the tube i ment it all! - not only the tube, but the holders... (i just made up a word!) the whole shabang!
-
Hey, you asked my opinion and you got it ;D ;D ;D ;D
If I can keep it original I prefer that. AND in this case I am now able to get the correct tube size for a small price. So it's even the easiest way to go...
-
of course it´s easier your way, though if the Blink Ducks dont work, we have to replace those as well....
-
Blink Ducks ??
Anyway, there is good news and there is bad news.....can't ask what you want first so here we go:
Good: The Coin door decals have arrived and they look great !
Bad: The third working ZPU died. I don't know why yet, but I was installing the backup battery on my and Superully's board and for some reason it doesn't want to boot anymore. The second (my) board works great after the back-up mod, just as Muerto's and I'm 100% sure it is not because of the mod......
Already replaced a transistor that was definitly defective, but still no go.... :evil:
Will have to wait to tomorrow night though...
-
Blink Ducks ??
Blink Ducks!!
(http://cubus-adsl.dk/elteknik/billedopslag/glimtaender.jpg)
-
Blink Ducks ??
Blink Ducks!!
(http://cubus-adsl.dk/elteknik/billedopslag/glimtaender.jpg)
Ooooowwwww , "Starters" (dutch) zeg dat dan ;D ;D ;D
-
Not a biggie to replace starters. Saint posted that my starter was the wrong kind for the tube, but this maybe due to the cab being for 230V ? I never gave starters any thought, I thought that a starter is just that and would work with all (most) tubes. The new one's at least seem to be able to.
Can you guys check what starter model you have in your Berzerks ?
-
just some info for who is interested
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Starting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Starting)
-
Yeah, I read that already but it doesn't say anything about different kind of starters for different wattages of tubes.
Well, I checked out the biggest name in TL lighting for their starters:
http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com/ecat/Light/Lister.aspx?fh_location=//prof/nl_NL/categories%3C{fepplg}/countries%3E{nl_NL}/status%3E{act}/categories%3C{c_0002fepplg_75_ep01}/categories%3C{c_0072fepplg_1106_ep01gsta}/categories%3C{f_0002fepplg_1106_phl_starteco}&fh_reftheme=nl_NL_promo_75024506,seeall,//prof/nl_NL/categories%3C{fepplg}/countries%3E{nl_NL}/status%3E{act}/categories%3C{c_0002fepplg_75_ep01}/categories%3C{c_0072fepplg_1106_ep01gsta}&fh_refview=summary&fh_view_size=10000&fh_start_index=0&left_nav=nl_nl&
Apparently they still have two types too, but it's more a case of max. range. The S10 is about as universal as it can get.
-
....
Bad: The third working ZPU died. I don't know why yet, but I was installing the backup battery on my and Superully's board and for some reason it doesn't want to boot anymore. The second (my) board works great after the back-up mod, just as Muerto's and I'm 100% sure it is not because of the mod......
Already replaced a transistor that was definitly defective, but still no go.... :evil:
Will have to wait to tomorrow night though...
SO, I decided today I was going to fix that board. For a change, I was lucky in finding a problem ! The board was booting up but giving only 2 beeps/flashes.
I first replaced the ROMs but that didn't help. Next I tried the RAMs (although that should give another beep) and as expected this didn't help either.
With the manual and schematics (and comparing with the working PCB) I pretty soon found out that there was no connection between one pin of R28 and pin 8 of RAM 1E. Pretty soon found out which track was affected and bridged it by a wire.
And YES it ran 100% again. However, while I wrote this message it spontanously rebooted while in attract mode.....rats ! I just played a couple of games and now it seems to be stable. I will revers the RAMS and ROMS and do more extended time testing tomorrow.
If this shows one thing is that these boards are probably always going to be suspect to possible problems. The acid creeps to places you can't see it or detect what it did.
I'm pretty convinced that at some point in time switching to ZZPU's might be the best way to go, but for now, these are not available.
At least, a major leap in getting the working board working again (it was working when I received it from the US).
-
After all those repairs you've already done you'll soon be the Berzerk-repair-expert ;D ;)
-
fantastic! - i think ully agrees!
:spaceace:
-
We're not there yet. Just let it run again a bit and again it rebooted spontaneously.
(Didn't change the ROMS and RAMs yet though). I also switched Ully's PS board (that I had in the machine over the last 4 weeks or so) to my own PS, so this may be a problem too.
To be continued...
-
thx andré, your efforts are highly appreciated!
-
Wait 'til you get the bill ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just found another broken track....no time to fix now though...to be continued tomorrow night....
-
I love following these hehe
-
Thanks !
I just repaired the second bad track.....it was actually pretty interesting. I measured an "open" between the emitter of Q1 and diode CR26 in diode test. I was just randomly testing some tracks in the area around the other bad track. When I switched to the ohms setting it read about 500 Ohms, a bit later around 1000 ohms. So apparently the track was sometimes conducting "just enough" to let the board run and sometimes not. Again I just bridged that bad track, and I've been playing about 5 games and it's been running in attract for 45 minutes now and not a single re-boot....so I think we can say: Ladies and Gentlemen, We Got Him ! :D
Will give this board the vinegar "bath" tomorrow. Although it worked when I received it, it went dead pretty quickly. There are obvious spots of acid still on the PCB, and clearly, it is doing "it's work" still.... need to stop it !
After that it's backup-battery installing and it should be done ! Phew....
-
Now I know what the term 'Die Hard' means :D
-
.... damn you´re good :!: :!: :!: :!:
-
.... damn you´re EXTREMELY good :!: :!: :!: :!:
-
is there an echo here??? ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Will give this board the vinegar "bath" tomorrow. Although it worked when I received it, it went dead pretty quickly. There are obvious spots of acid still on the PCB, and clearly, it is doing "it's work" still.... need to stop it !
So the vinegar stops the acid from eating the copper? Good to know!
My friends' T2 pcb has spots around the bad ram chip that look like acid damage, but the thing is there isn't a battery near them... There is a lithium cell on the board but it's on the other side, and there's no damage there. I'll try the vinegar trick on the ram area and see what happens.
-
Use what we call "schoonmaak azijn" and not the kind you put on your salad :)
I've read somewhere that people actually mixed it a bit. So far I used the pure stuff, not sure if that's the best way to go. Vinegar is also an acid.(you can smell it).
SO be sure to rinse with water richely after the vinegar has done it's work.
It's actually quite fun to see the reaction when you apply it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDi--jrAdk
Regretfully the bubbling already stopped mostly when I shot this...
PS, from what I remember from my chemists lessons, shouldn't we fight an acid with a base instead of with another acid ?
-
Hmmm, I should have paid more attention during chemistry class when I was still in school.... :-\
-
Just found the answer. Battery leakage is actually no acid at all.
It's a (alkali) base !
So, we do the right thing and fight it with an acid (vinegar).
I've asked a question on KLOV if we should mix it with water before using it and if we need to use demineralised water to rinse after the process. Until now, I get some stuff that looks like chalk around the legs of the parts, and I don't really like that....
-
lol andre i was just about to ask is the battery acid or alkaline, i think there are both.
ok
the equation
base + acid = salt + water, the residue is the salt in the equation
the salt should be chemically inactive so just needs to be washed off, cant harm to use demineralised water
what acid is it you are using andre?
EDIT oops removed the gaps for andre
-
When I see suspicious or stubborn substances on a pcb (non-battery leakage stuff) I always try to remove it first by dipping a small paintbrush (like the kids use) in alcohol and swipe over the area.
Lately I found out alcohol is effient for more things than just drinking it ;D
-
unconfirmed information following
just been reading that it may be potassium hydroxide in the battery which is a very strong base so may need lots of acid to neutralise it.
bear with me andre i'll see if i can make sense of the chemistry
-
Right, Ully's ZPU has been running 100% stable ever since I started it earlier this evening after the 2nd bridged track.
I officially declare it repaired now. Acid and battery tomorrow....
-
what acid is it you are using andre?
This is exactly the bottle I've got here:
http://www.schoonmaakazijn.nl/
(The green one, the others have added scents, which we don't need).
The site says that vinegar is the weakest acid. Also: "Schoonmaakazijn" (= "cleaning vinegar") is only used for cleaning and not for food preparation. If mixed with water too much the cleaning function will be lost (so I guess we really don't need to mix it for our purpose).
It also says: Cleaning vinegar has an acid percentage of 8% which is a lot higher then that of "nature" vinegar that is used to prepare food.
The rest of the site gives a lot of uses for this stuff. F.I. fighting cat-piss stains (!) and fighting chalk rests....but also cleaning a dishwasher etc.
-
So, I gave it a bath yesterday. We really needed to stop the base residue from further eating tracks and parts......
Something I noticed: Most PCBs are (screen) printed with (white) texts to identify partnrs. on the PCB. This is easy for repair. Stern did it's very best and even "drew boxes" to indicate what function each area of components has.
Nice, but I scraped of a little bit of the white line at one part, and discovered the copper track under it was fully covered with the bad-blue base battery leakage! I guess those lines are like a "border" or a "dam"....it holds (and keeps) the leaking stuff on the same place and thus let it have even more effect....
Anyway, after vinegar, scrapping bad looking areas (tracks) and more vinegar and of coure rinsing and drying...I tried the board this morning and now it's completely dead. No beeps just a steady LED.... :evil:
Must have scraped off a bit too much somewhere......arrgghhh, o well, will look into it tonight. It can't be a big problem.....
-
.....and fixed ! ;D
I was pretty puzzled by this one. I scraped carefully and all tracks looked OK.
A tip: use a very bright light (f.i. halogene or TL) light and shine from the back of the PCB and try to look "through" it. This really helps to follow tracks and sometimes (not always !) you can see breaks.
It all looked OK. I measured all the tracks where I had scraped the cover from and they all beeped out just fine.....mmm weird.
SO I started checking for shorts between the + and - supplies and ground but it looked ok.
Then I thought about measuring the reset button. If this would constantly short, of course the board will never boot.
So I measured it and got some readings of resistance. Normally you don't get that at a switch of course, it's either fully shorted or fully open. So I desoldered the reset button and tested and it's been running fine again now for about 30 minutes. I'll "transplant" one of the reset buttons from the other boards (of course I will check it first).
I actually think that the rinsing was causing the problem this time. There may very well still be water inside that button. It worked fine before. It can also be that the button was already dodgy and the water gave it it's last push, but I doubt it.
Another reason why I tend to not wash PCBs if not strictly necessary, like now.
-
Battery installed. Had to jumper another track (!) to get the diode properly working.
She's not a looker anymore with all those bridges, bare copper etc. but it works great now. Saves scores, no re-booting.
Will keep it in my machine until I go visit Ully, that's the best way to test it thoroughly ;)
-
After three days, still going strong !
(Why do I have the feeling I keep talking to myself in this thread ? ;D ;D)
-
Keep posting the progress! I've been reading these repair logs from the beginning with interest ;).
-
you know i read them i just barely understand them, so i only post very occasionaly ;)
-
(Why do I have the feeling I keep talking to myself in this thread ? ;D ;D)
it might SEEM you're talking to yourself, andré, but i'm sure a lot of people are reading along - myself included. it's just that i'm so nervous about these berzerk boards and their tendency to fail ...
-
(Why do I have the feeling I keep talking to myself in this thread ? ;D ;D)
I know that i am following every step of the way !
there is only not so much to give comentary, i can only say that you are doing a wonderfull job puzzeling this out everytime there is a failure, wich i really like, and its learnfull stuff.
I know some basics, but its interesting to folow, and usefull to me in some ways,
Keep posting the progress please !
-
I know that i am following every step of the way !
there is only not so much to give commentary, i can only say that you are doing a wonderful job...
+1 :-*
-
I knew you guys were reading...just had so many replies "to myself" ;)
Did a bit of work on the two (spare) dead speech boards I have here.
Board A was not causing any errors on start-up, but it simply didn't put out any speech. This board was originally in my machine and worked for a couple of hours and then suddenly died.
Board B was causing errors (apparently on the data/adress bus). The game only beeps 3 times with this speech board connected and gives some error screen that normally would indicate bad RAMs on other boards.
Started with board A and swapped my working speech chip (S14001A) with the one on that board. Tested and....working fine !
Next I figured it could be worthwhile to try the S14001A speech chip from Board B on Board A and low and behold, it worked fine too.
So Board B is "double" dead now and Board A is 100% again.
I think Board B may have some bad data buffers...we'll see about that later...much later I guess.
The only speech board untested so far of our "batch" of machines and boards is the one on Ully's machine. If his is still working OK, we all got a spare working board too. That will be nice.
About the S14001A: It's pretty rare, but I did find one source for it. Chips costs 25 bucks though......
The chip is a pretty rare beast. I did some digging around and there's some interesting info on internet about it.
Here's a PDF with some interesting facts:
http://si.fileburst.com/s14001a_reveng.pdf
This doc was created to reverse engineer the speech for Berzerk in Mame. So contrary what I thought, Berzerk should not be playing samples in Mame but actually emulates the speech chip !
From this doc, I understand that the ROM's on the speech-board (there are 2) each hold different data.
One holds the syllables, one the phonemes. These are combined to create the speech.
The fun is that there's even a table with all the words and sounds and the corresponding hex-data. So, IN THEORY, it would be possible to change these words it's saying. If you put even more work in it, IN THEORY you should even be able to let Berzerk speak YOUR language......I kinda like that thought !
(Watje, vecht als een robot !)
Do you guys remember Ghostbusters, Kennedy Approach and Impossible mission on the Atari 8-bits and C64 ?
The speech on those games was done by the same guys who did this speech chip...
I've been reading some docs on the internet about speech synthesizers in those days and it's quite interesting, although I don't understand all of it I can understand the basics.
Anyway, one less dead board... :D
-
Haha, that's cool with the speech stuff. It's a lot of work though to find out all the sounds you need to make a single word. It does remind me of my early computer days in MS-DOS, editing game files so people actually swear instead of '!#?@' texts :P.
Now that I'm remembering this, I'm surprised of myself I could pull that off when I was about 8 years old :o.
I also did it a few times more recently as experiments with arcade roms (with success). Although this was done more for a self-educational purpose, to find out how to merge rom files with byte interleaving, byte swap & stuff like that.
-
......I kinda like that thought !
(Watje, vecht als een robot !)
:lol: :lol: that would be nice, like a kind of Berzerk clone.
-
Well, my first idea was that it would be very cool if there now would be a software that could do the encoding.
The encoding originally was done by a quite extensive hardware set-up involving a couple of mini-computers, and from what I've read about the TI speech chips used by Atari (they tested a TI "PASS" system to encode the sounds at Atari, haven't read yet if they actually bought it) it was still required to make manual adjustments to the encoded sounds.
Any way my guess is that a run-of-the-mill computer of today should very well be able to do it, BUT this doc actually makes it easier because we now have a table we "only" have to choose the already existing sounds and put them in the right order. Indeed, that could probably be done by a computer program as well. For testing, MAME would be ideal because it saves having to burn EPROMs and put them on the speech board for each try.
In theory, the sounds created by the chip should cover all languages because the synthesizer actually (tries to) reproduce the human "construction" to produce speech. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the sounds were tailored to the English language. F.I. I wonder if it will be able to produce the hard G we have in the Dutch language. But still it would be fun to be able to try it.
I've read on some sites that Berzerk actually had tailored speech for f.i. Spanish markets, but I've never seen the ROM files for that.
Sidenote:
Something that I find amazing about the sounds created on Star Wars is that the voices and sounds actually sound like the actors. Even the "fly-by" sound, R2-D2's sounds etc. are created through the speech synth.
This means that in some way they must have used the original sounds from the movie and "sampled" them, but, in theory, speech synths like this don't play back samples like we are used to now....interesting stuff, I plan on asking Jed Margolin some questions about it when I've read through all his docs.
The TI speech synth in SW is more advanced than the one on Berzerk though. The S14001A was developped in 1975, the TI was from early 80's.
-
Another thing that I find pretty amazing is that I've never heard of a Berzerk bootleg.
It's strange because almost all the hit games have bootlegs. Maybe the set-up of the system (lots of PCB's) and the speech prevented it from bootlegs. The speech plays such a key role in the game (it's crazy how different it the experience is when speech is missing).
-
Not a biggie to replace starters. Saint posted that my starter was the wrong kind for the tube, but this maybe due to the cab being for 230V ? I never gave starters any thought, I thought that a starter is just that and would work with all (most) tubes. The new one's at least seem to be able to.
Can you guys check what starter model you have in your Berzerks ?
Well I indeed had to replace the starter in the Berzerk. It was aimed for too high wattage tubes and it didn't always (more not) start the tube. Put in a brand new one and works fine now.
Ully's ZPU: Still going strong without a single problem !
Put some nice scores in the top 5 to keep Ully busy for some time once his machine will be working ;D ;D ;D (somewhere in the 11000, still not my highest score though...)
-
Not a biggie to replace starters. Saint posted that my starter was the wrong kind for the tube, but this maybe due to the cab being for 230V ? I never gave starters any thought, I thought that a starter is just that and would work with all (most) tubes. The new one's at least seem to be able to.
Can you guys check what starter model you have in your Berzerks ?
Well I indeed had to replace the starter in the Berzerk. It was aimed for too high wattage tubes and it didn't always (more not) start the tube. Put in a brand new one at works fine now.
talking to yourself again ?? ;D ;D ;D
just kidding my friend ;)
-
Since the little guy had fever today I was forced to stay home from work so I did some work on the Berzerk Joystick.
I still had problems to hit the diagonals and I really wanted it to improve.
First a little explanation about the construction of the joystick:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202010-02-01-20om-2021-27-09/web.jpg?ver=12650562670001)
The red arrow points to the PCB. This carries the opto's (2 are draw, incicated by the yellow arrows). These point DOWN in a right angle. You can see that when the joystick is centered, the light will travel side-ways of the reflective disc (indicated with the green arrow). If the stick is moved, the disc will come over the opto and will reflect the infra-red light back onto the opto.
If you look at the design of the construction it's easy to understand why the diagonals are a problem:
The opto's are only on the primary directions (i.e: up, down, left, right):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202010-02-01-20om-2021-39-18/web.jpg?ver=12650568970001)
The opto's are U2,3,4,5. The red arrows show where they should have added the other 4 for the diagonals....
The joystick works so, that the shiny disc that is connected to the joysticks tilts over to a certain direction when you move it. If you move it (f.i.) up, it will come close enough for the opto to "close" (start seeing the reflection of it's own infrared beam).
However if you move it diagonally, it will have to cover two opto's. Since the disc is circular shaped and even everywhere, the distance will be less then when you hit a primary direction.
This causes a very narrow angle to give f.i. both the up and left signals.
To be honest, Stern screwed up. They should have put opto's on every possible direction IMHO. But it was (as almost always) probably a cost thing. Anyway, that would be the best possible solution.
Since these opto's are long out of production, and I don't want to seriously hack the PCB (it would also require some extra TTL logic) I thought about a simple solution: how about bringing the PCB close to the disc.
This was very easy to do by adding some extra rings on the supports.
I first tested it with two added rings on each support. It worked great on the diagonals, but now I started having problems going in the primary directions. Apparently, if the disc gets TOO close, it's not working either.
The little graph in the datasheet proved this "theory":
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202010-02-01-20om-2021-12-30/web.jpg?ver=12650553250001)
You can see that the further away the reflective surface is, the less current it will conduct, which is logical. But also when the distance is very close, it will stop conducting (in fact, it drops much faster there).
So, I needed to find the right "balance". Thus I removed one of the 2 extra rings on each support and tested again. This time it worked perfectly !
I hit diagonals as easy as the primary directions !!! It's really like a different controller now ! :D
I also even further loosened the spring-tension. I don't really know why they included it in the first place. The stick does self-center by itself, but it does springs a little back and forth if you let it go. I played it a while without the spring attached and I was almost perfectly happy with it. It totally got rid of the required force to push the joystick. IMHO a joystick is not a means of muscle-exercise but this one sure felt like one (esp. before I loosened the spring). THe only problem I had without the spring connected was moving over VERY short distances (I mean one pixel here). This is often what you want to do with Berzerk. Stand around the corner of a wall and shoot EXACTLY 1 pixel over the edge of the wall. It was almost impossible to do without the spring.
So, I re-attached it and loosened it even further than before. I will need to seek for the ultimate compromise....
There's another thing I don't like about this stick:
The end-hit....(or how do you call it ?) When you hit the end of the travel it hits a very hard rubber like stuff. I don't know if this has become harder over the years or if it was intended this way, but I don't like it. Is there any stuff to weaken the rubber around ? Or should I try to get some new and cut a new block (if possible) ?
Anyway, I'm already MUCH happier than I was before. Almost all my games after I moved the PCB up a bit I got through to 10000 points with 3 extra men. I lost them quickly every time though so I still didn't brake my 12xxx record but I'm sure I will soon....
Did I mention this game ROCKS ?
To be honest I was a bit hesitant about the re-playability of Berzerk but man does it draw you back and back and back ! I love it !
-
you really dug deep into the topic, andre! R-E-S-P-E-C-T. curious how my joystick is going to feel / work in comparison to yours. perhaps we also need to make some adjustments ...
-
There may be a second way to adjust / correct this issue.
See the schematic:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/Schermafbeelding-202010-02-01-20om-2021-54-10/web.jpg?ver=12650577080001)
The signal of the photo-transistor in the opto is compared to a reference voltage created by R2 and R3 (Schematic only shows 1 opto, but of course they're all the same). R2 and R3 could be replaced with a 10K pot. This way it's possible to vary the voltage that the opto's signal is compared to by the LM339. In theory this should allow to change the "range" of the opto. However, this will also require careful testing and finding the right balance.
As the extra rings on the supports are much simpler and seem to work great I settle for that, but in theory this should work.I think ;)
-
Wahoo, a box from the US arrived today !
And you gotta love Bob, he even separately packed the stuff for all of us ! :spaceace: :spaceace:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4700/web.jpg?ver=12651360300001)
Of course I can't wait to use some of the stuff. The old buttons:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4703/web.jpg?ver=12651360310001)
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4705/web.jpg?ver=12651360340001)
Old and new. As you can see, red colored stuff ALWAYS fades....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4707/web.jpg?ver=12651360350001)
"Small" difference !
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100643/DSCF4709/web.jpg?ver=12651360360001)
Now, all we need to wait for is the repro CP's from Cmoore !
-
wow what a difference !
-
bob really is a genius - look at that packaging. i'm happy for you, andré, that you didn't have to sort the stuff on your own.
and then those new buttons. man, this game is going to look kickass with the repro control panel! :spaceace:
-
Yes. Now it looks like a "flag on a shit-boat" as we say in Holland....... :D
Indeed, I think a good number of suppliers would be annoyed by the way I ordered because some of us had the same parts (i.e. the buttons). I sent him a list per person and instead of Bob complaining about it he did this. Big plus for Bob.
Oh, and no "shipping troubles" at all. ;) ;)
-
wow! - thats the way to do business! maby some can learn somthing? ;) ;)
-
Great!! If everything works out I'll be playing Centipede soon!!
-
For my Berzerk friends: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L3SOD7CS
A Berzerk and Frenzy song, and a nice quicktime movie featuring Berzerk.
I hope you like it. :)
-
Very nice thanks Erik ! I would love to have the vinyl edition of that :D
I just heard that the first signs of life are coming from the THIRD stooge: there is picture, there is a game, there is sound, but no voice yet.
More investigation will be done later but that will be reported by Ully I'm sure !
-
thats great to hear!
btw, for how long is the high score supposed to be saved with the kit you installed?.... tricky i know, but for how long?
-
Expected life time of the battery is about 10 years. Spec sheets mention a shelf life of 5 years. That means it still has a reasonable charge and lifetime after that shelf-life, and 5 years is thus very long.
It depends on it's use of course. It's using very little energy, but if you never power up the game it will have to keep the memory alive constantly. I've seen situations with older lithium batteries that still had enough power to keep the memory in tact.
You could measure the voltage annually and put it in a chart. This will let you know if things are getting tight.
OR if you want to be VERY sure, you could replace the battery after 5 years. Of course you have to replace the battery when the game is running or else the memory will be deleted. This should work in theory, but I haven't actually tried it yet, maybe a good idea to do this before you reach REALLY high scores that you don't want to loose. You can of course simply remove the current battery and re-install it again, it's about if it will accept the removal and re-inserting, not about a new battery.
Thinking of the circuitry, this should definitely work. My Berzerk is in storage so I can't try this now. Be careful not to short anything when removing/re-inserting the battery.
-
ok, it´s because mine can only remember the scores for 2-4 weeks...., maby there´s something wrong?
-
I read that the third stooge is alive and kicking this morning. I guess Ully has been playing Berzerk ever since because he hasn't posted that great news up here yet ! ;D
-
I guess Ully has been playing Berzerk ever since because he hasn't posted that great news up here yet ! ;D
i hate those damn robots, they always get the best of me :twisted:
i will update my berzerk resto thread over the course of the weekend, because although the game is up and running (thx to andre's support), there are still some minor things to do. right now, i'm playing that game in the middle of a battlefield, but it rockzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
-
Guys, about the Stern coin door logo stickers......
As we've seen from Ully's pics, they don't work on a black coin door. Seller says it was intended for the grey doors. He is offering money back for the one's we didn't use (4/5) but of course I will have to send it to the US.
SO, we're loosing money over this anyway. I hope you guys agree to share the burden ?
Now, there are two alternatives:
1) Buy the other type decal from Phoenix
2) Rich from ThisOldGame asked me for the scan I made and is looking into reproducing it for the video games (=black doors).
Not sure how long option 2 will take.
Will keep you posted.
-
thx for the ipdate, andré! i've used up my sticker already and i don't know who's got the others? do i have another one ;)? would it even be worth sending those stickers back? if so, do it and keep the money for yourself because you're the one having the troubles of getting them wrapped up and stuff!
as for the replecement stickers: i will most likely go for the other version and order them from rich (thisoldgame.com). they are the same as the ones phoenixarcade is offering. i could easily wait for the ones that brian is supposed to be doing, but the other design and colors fit my new coin insert label much better. and you know that it's about looks, right? :P does anyone of you need something from rich? perhaps we could team up here as well?
-
thx for the ipdate, andré! i've used up my sticker already and i don't know who's got the others? do i have another one ;)? would it even be worth sending those stickers back? if so, do it and keep the money for yourself because you're the one having the troubles of getting them wrapped up and stuff!
Well, so far no-one paid for those stickers yet, so.......if I send them back I'm sure he will only return the price of the stickers, not the (pretty high) shipping cost from him to me and of course I will have to pay for shipping back to him, so there won't be much left. So I suggested to share the costs in this deal, I don't think there's a need for me to take the burden.
I'll see if I can maybe sell them overhere.
as for the replecement stickers: i will most likely go for the other version and order them from rich (thisoldgame.com). they are the same as the ones phoenixarcade is offering. i could easily wait for the ones that brian is supposed to be doing, but the other design and colors fit my new coin insert label much better. and you know that it's about looks, right? :P does anyone of you need something from rich? perhaps we could team up here as well?
Rich says he can do the original version we bought from the pinball guy. I scanned one of the stickers and he says he can do them, but not that he WILL do them yet ;) Rich is on this forum too, not sure if he reads this.
If it's too much hassle/ not feasible for Rich I will go with the other version as well. It's not that big of a deal since the other one's were originally on Berzerks too.
I'm in the process of ordering a CPO and maybe some vinyl from Rich so yes maybe we can team up.
I hate the low Euro by the way, damn politicians who allowed the Greek into it !!
-
I hate the low Euro by the way, damn politicians who allowed the Greek into it !!
hehe, im glad Denmark is not a part of the yet!
Regarding the stickers, i would also like the ones you do (i trust your judgrment) and if you need some money, please let me know, and i wire some..
-
So I suggested to share the costs in this deal, I don't think there's a need for me to take the burden.
totally no need to take the burden, andré! i guess i've misread your post and though you were at least going to make some bucks on this. if however, you're losing money, we're stepping in. isn't that what we're doing for greece as well? ;)
-
Hah, yes the Danish politicians were smarter then ours. That is, maybe they actually represented the people who live in Denmark and said NO !
Our government constantly does other things than the majority of people want. Thus I predict an enormous win for the ultra-right wing Geert Wilders.
I won't get into politics here, but sometimes the steam is running out my ears when I hear how the "gentlemen" in The Hague act and talk about OUR tax money !
Back on topic:
I posted the remaining stickers on Marktplaats and they were sold within a couple of hours ! Ha !
I got 20 euro for the remaining 4 stickers. I paid 32 dollars incl. shipping. At the time I bought them the euro-dollar rate was about 1.35 so I paid somewhere around the 23-24 euro's, so no worries on that anymore ! ;)
-
great to hear, andré! happy that it turned out ok for you.
-
But I think it's not the end about this "model" of stickers......hold your horses on buying alternatives a bit....... ;)
-
Some good news for Ully: I just fixed one of the spare BSC boards. This one gave 4 beeps when booting. I suspected the RAM and indeed the very first RAM I replaced (2114 on B1) fixed the problem ! Perfectly working now, and this board has 0 acid damage !
I still have another non-working BSC (3 beeps), gonna try exchange some RAMS on that one too....
-
sounds great, andré! have you already rented the trailer for all your repair stuff you're bringing along? ;) remember, i'm paying the bill ... 8)
-
No need. The Oktavia is big enough and (very much to my regret) I don't have a hook for a trailer....also it would limit my speed too much :)
What I _will_ do is remove the full working panel from my Berzerk and bring it for testing. This will look like "Chasing ghosts" ! ;) ;D
But hopefully with better results in the end !!! ;D
-
Great to hear!!! the last one is about to come to life again! :spaceace:
-
some news that aren't that good:
had a great game of berzerk going yesterday, lost a man out of stupidity, shouted out an extremely loud F*** because of that and as if the machine had heard my cursing, the voices stopped all of a sudden. all the sounds were still there, bot no speech.
turned the game off and on again - same result. put in michael's replacement board (since my original board with the "scratchy voices" is at andre's place and i was already running my replacement board), no speech there as well! another F*** was necessary!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
is it possible that THREE speech board have did in such a short time?
-
no ully, it´s just you sending out bad karma! ::)
-
Do you still have the SCSI ribbon cables ? Try one between the speech and sound board. And maybe also between the sound board and the one above it.
-
Maybe you just blasted your eardrums because of your shouting and the sound works fine, you just can't hear it? ;D ;)
But that's arcade life, I guess everyone has experienced such things. It's part of the hobby, it happens all the time, one has to accept that.
-
The voice board from Muerto was fully working when I dent it and should work. That's why I'm suspecting the ribbon cables.
Please try that Ully. If not, you can move over some chips between the boards....
-
i'll give it a try this afternoon with either different ribbon cables or the scsi cables!
-
or do i need to put the mame rom and speech samples also in my ftp for you ? ;)
-
or do i need to put the mame rom and speech samples also in my ftp for you ? ;)
Are u nuts ? ;D
You think with the slightest set-back we give in and mame a classic machine ?
No sir ! This belongs to the hobby. Buy a classic car and you know you will be on the road-side with troubles every now and then.
Some are luckier than others, some keep running without a problem, some will keep giving headaches.....but we won't give in ! ;D ;D
-
sorry, forgot to post my results, thx for reminding me andré ;)
- first thing i did was exchange the two flat cables (sound board and voice board) with my new scsi cables - no change, no speech
- exchanged the voice generators (the big chip) of the two boards - no change, no speech
- exchanged the voice roms (two chips) of the two boards - no change, no speech
- tried the chips in various combinations - no change, no speech
- switched the scsi cables for different ribbon cables - no change, no speech
result of my tests: NO CHANGE, NO SPEECH
one thing i remember from when the speech failed during gameplay: the sound of the laser fires got definitely louder. at one point when i was doing some testing today, the laser fires suddenly weren't that loud anymore, as if the speech was trying to "break through", but then the sounds got louder again ...
fact is: both boards are definitely NOT working - sorry michael :'(! andré, you said that voice generator chip can be reordered, but it isn't cheap, right?
any other suggestions?
-
Do you still have another sound board ?
Try that ! From what you tell it might be the "mixing" of the sound sources.
-
i think i still have my spare sound board and michael's as well - i'll try different variations tomorrow. just to make sure: the sound board is the one above the voice board, right?
-
Yes sir !
As far as I understand this mixes in the sound of the voice board. Not 100% sure though, but worth the try !
-
Did you check the voltages on the voice board? If I didn't misread it's the only one which needs -12V, so maybe it's off or too low.
-
As far as I understand this mixes in the sound of the voice board. Not 100% sure though, but worth the try !
i've mixed up and tested the boards in various combinations - still the same: no speech, only sound!
Did you check the voltages on the voice board? If I didn't misread it's the only one which needs -12V, so maybe it's off or too low.
after that, i did what sascha said and tested the voltages on the voice board. +5V is a little bit low with 4.93, BUT ...
... -12V measures in with -20V :o :shock: :o :shock: :o :shock: (no matter which boards i have installed!)
(http://www.hardyhuebener.de/_pics/smiley_help.gif)
-
1) Relax
2) Check the manual.
-
2) Check the manual.
which tells me what? "superully, you suck!" ?
-
Heheheheh.....no just that you need to learn to read the schematics a bit :)
The -12V is unregulated (URG) as indicated on the Power Supply schematics and also on the wiring diagram. As you can see it's indicating a value of between -14.5V and -25V. So the value you measure is fine if you measure it on or near the connector.
HOWEVER there's an error on the voiceboard schematic as it says REG (pin J3-1) there which would make you believe it's a -12V regulated voltage.
What do you read if you measure at TP1 ? Acc. to the schematic it should be -10V there (the zenerdiode CR1 is regulating the voltage)
-
guess what? i've just turned on the machine to measure what andré told me and ... the voices are back :) 8)
don't know what's up with that game, but i'm extremely happy about it!
@andré: unfortunately, the discoloration of the monitor is still there ... anything i can do?
-
yeah, don't touch it ! or the voices will dissapear again ;D ;D ;D
-
As you know, Berzerk is a haunted game. Two players died after setting a very high score with 666 in them and one player turned into a pedophile so.... we're lucky to be alive. ;D ;D ;D
I still guess connection problems...maybe the power connector ?
-
I still guess connection problems...maybe the power connector ?
so anything you WOULD do or just leave it for now?
-
You can check if the wires are tight in the connectors. Check the connector on the voice-board,
on the capacitor (filter) board and the PSU.
Edit: my bad, the voltage wires run directly from the PSU to the voiceboard, not through the capacitor (filter) board.
-
I have seen a bezerk pcb at andre's place, what a beast. ;D I'm sure you guy's will get it working soon and then its going to be extra rewarding.
-
and what about the discoloration?
-
Wahhooooo, my CPO from Chris arrived yesterday and it is SWEEEEEET !
I already installed it on the wood but not yet on the cab....hope to find a little time today though and will upload pics...