Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: DarthNuno on July 07, 2008, 06:44:16 PM
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Got last week a new TV, in order to replace a dead 20 inch arcade monitor.
Well, this is not a stuff for US guys because brand new arcade monitors are so cheap in USA, but here in Europe, they are so expensive :o :-\
OK so... in the shop called 'Carrefour' (In Belgium) I got this model for 150€ :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/digi1.jpg)
The details :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/digi1bis.jpg)
No pot, but you can access all the size/geometry setting in a hidden menu :P Here's the trick to access it :lol: :arrow:
On the remote, push "M" and then the numbers "4 7 2 5" :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/digi2.jpg)
Let's test it on a real setup :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/digi3.jpg)
60 Hz, True RGB signal via Euro Scart Connector... perfect picture :-*
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Still available for sale :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/digihome.jpg)
...and of course, I got a new one today...once more :roll: ;)
Don't laugh... I'm sure it'll be very hard to buy new TV CRT like that very soon :-\ Let's stock them ;)
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wise idea to stock up.
brunos lair will need to be maintained over the years.
:spaceace:
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Hey Bruno ....
same thing at the same day :lol: :spaceace:
(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3739/tv1lx2.jpg)
same 20" TV with a different brand DIGIHOME and BLUESKY (we know well this brand :-* :lol:)
(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/8205/blueskylogodu9.jpg)
perfect image :-* :-*
(http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3830/darkzc3.jpg)
but hey .... the price ..... here in Italy....take a look.....:
(http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/347/scansione0002gq4.jpg)
99,90 EURO :spaceace: :spaceace:
planning a trip to Italy :lol: :wink:
.... Bruno, you're right , in 2009 CRT tube will disappear from the market :'( :'( so .... STOCK UP STOCK UP :pac:
CRT TUBES RULEZ !!!!! :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Great Idea.. If I were you, I'd stock away at least 20 !! No Joke... Especially for future games you find as well as replacement for future CRT failures.
The Digital Switch is coming very soon here, and CRT TVs are getting more scarce, Arcade Game companies are gradually switching to flat panel screens.
I've also heard there is only maybe one plant in Japan that is producing the worlds CRT's... Don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't doubt it.
The reality.... CRT's are very heavy and expensive to produce, while Flat Panels are getting soooo cheap and they're light as a feather compared to CRT's...
Definately would suggest stocking up a bunch Bruno!! ;)
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Yes... I'm 100% sure of that ... TV CRT won't be available very very soon :ghost: !!! Let's stock as many as possible 8)
I have 7 or 8 *spare* tv (5 brand new & boxed... not all of them on the picture)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum/stocktv.jpg)
By the way, have a look at the boxes... all the same... Altus... Manhattan ... Digihome... BLuesky ...I'm almost sure that all these TV are made by the same manufacturer !
::) :P ;D
...and I plan to buy more & more... Sonic, you're right... at least 20 would be perfect for the next 10 years :P ;D
Argg... scr33n... only 99€ for you :shock: ;) Wooww... don't hesitate... buy a lot of them :o So cheap... 8)
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I bought a new one off ebay here in the UK last week. They are getting harder and harder to find and I am going to stock up on them as I find them. A few years ago they were in the supermarkets for £60 each and I wish I had bought a few then. I probably need around 20 to 25 for my needs but I don't think I will be able to find that many.
Of course there are plenty of used ones around and after the digital switch over there will be even more but used ones will be a last resort for me.
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Salut Darth Nuno !
Excuses-moi, mais je ne sais pas si on a le droit de parler français sur ce site.
Je te retranscris mon post sur gamoover, pour avoir plus de chances que tu y répondes rapidement :
Tout d'abord j'ai consulté avec beaucoup d'intérêt tous tes RT et toutes tes rénovations de bornes, t'est vraiment un dingo de l'arcade, tout comme moi !
Je suis un fou des tubes cathodiques et des signaux RVB 60 Hz ( ), et j'envisage de construire ma première borne qui sera une mini pac-man (mamifiée) à l'échelle 2/3 avec une TV sony 14 pouces achetée d'occasion et en parfait état à 30 € pas loin de chez moi (merci leboncoin)
J'ai quelques soucis de réglages de géométrie (je les postent dans ce topic qui me semblait le plus approprié ?)
J'ai fait plusieurs tests sur mes trois TV à tubes avec une config à base d'arcadeVGA1 en AGP, et un cable VGA-PERITEL RGB fabriqué maison. Mes téloches sont : une Sony KV-29FX20B (superbe tube trinitron plat), une thomson 21 pouces bon marché achetée 129 € à Carrefour, et ma petite dernière Sony Trinitron 14 pouces, que j'envisage de placer en vertical dans ma future mini pac-man.
L'image est nickel, "100 % Arcade accurate" comme tu le dis si bien. Toutefois, j'ai des problèmes d'overscan hyper gênants; surtout sur les côtés (ou en haut et en bas quant on pivote l'écran en position verticale). J'ai pourtant réussi à trouver pour les trois TV les codes techniciens, mais je n'ai pas réussi à trouver le paramètre qui m'intéresse : le réglage de la taille horizontale. Au niveau vertical, pas de problème, j'ai réussi à centrer l'image aux petits oignons, mais, horizontalement, l'image ne peut pas être étirée ou raccourcie (ce que je recherche) : je ne peux seulement la déplacer.
Ce problème est surtout embêtant pour les jeux en 288x224 (presque tous les Namco), où une bonne partie est tronquée : en jouant avec le horizontal shift, on peut se débrouiller, par exemple pour Pac Man, pour voir une partie des scores en partie haute et une partie des fruits et crédits en partie basse. Si je règle pour voir l'intégralité des fruits, les "1UP, HIGH SCORE" et "2UP" disparaissent en haut de l'écran, et vice-versa.
Sur les jeux en 256x224 (comme Donkey Kong), c'est moins grave, je peux prsque avoir tout l'écran (à 2-3 mm près, rien de méchant)
J'ai vu qu'avec tes fameuses TV Manhattan DIGIHOME et compagnie achetées à Carrefour, tu arrives à avoir sur Galaga l'ensemble de l'image : scores + bas de l'écran !
Comment fais-tu ! Y-a-t-il sur ces TV un paramètre dans le menu caché qui permet de modifier la taille horizontale ? Ou bien trifouilles-tu la platine de la TV (genre potentiomètre ou autre) ?
Si oui, je n'ai pas de bol, car sur 3 TV aucune ne permet de régler l'amplitude horizontale, mais juste la position.
Ou bien alors, est-ce un problème lié à l'ArcadeVGA ? Je vois en effet que tu utilises AdvanceMame et AdvanceMenu. Mais ma logique me fait dire que cela ne peut pas provenir de la carte graphique, puisqu'elles délivrent toutes les deux la même résolution.
D'avance Merci.
PS : J'adorerai visiter ta game room si un jour je suis de passage en Belgique. On est de la même génération, on devrait s'entendre ! Par contre, le Dr Pepper, je connais pas. Je crois qu'une binouze fera plus l'affaire !
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Hi to all and to Darth Nuno
I will try to translate my previous post in English, as I didn't know we were not allowed to speak other languages here.
I plan to build my first Mame cab using the pac_man (or galaga haven't chosen yet) cabinet plans at 66,67 scale.
Actually I have all the parts there : PC with ArcadeVGA cart, homemade vga to scart cable, controls and 14" Sony trinitron TV just bought used near my house.
All i need to do now is buying and working the wood (and some tools)... not very WAF in my case, but I'll try to do it someday ( ;D)
Even if the picture is "100% arcade accurate", as you say, I've got an overscan problem that is general on the 3 TV sets I tried at home / a sony KV29FX20B, a Thomson 21" bought new 4 years ago at carrefour, and the recent 14" sony one that is supposed to be in the cab.
I found for those TV's the service menu code on the net, and managed to size and center the screen vertically without any problem, but I can't see, in any menu, an horizontal size parameter.
Actually, the display is wider than the screen on both edges ; that results, particullary for namco's 288x224 vertical games like pacman or galaga, in a trunked image at top and bottom (the fruits ans scores are cut by more than half)
Nuno, did you had, with your "manhattan", "bluesky" or "digihome" TV's, to adjust the horizontal screensize ? Or is it good by default even for namco games ? I saw your galaga restoration, and the image is fullscreen with no overscan at all. :o :o :o
Thanx in advance for your response.
PS : Hope to see you someday if I come to Belgium. I'll drink a beer instead of Dr Pepper I think : in fact I never tasted it ! ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Here is some pictures to illustrate my words :
1/ 256x224 on the 14" Trinitron : oversan but still acceptable :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i265164_P1010577.JPG)
2/ 288x224 on the same TV : not acceptable : The 1UP HIGH SOCRE etc. disappear totally ! :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i265168_P1010579.JPG)
3/ 288x224 on the Thomson 21" TV : exactly same overscan ! :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i265172_P1010580.JPG)
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Hi, just to tell you, if you didn't know yet, that we can still buy CRT TV's from Germany, here :
http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/fr/fernseher/roehren-tv-ab-46cm/645202/-/Article.html? (http://www.technikdirekt.de/main/fr/fernseher/roehren-tv-ab-46cm/645202/-/Article.html?)
There are several models of 20-21" TV's (JVC and Grundig) from 129-149 €uros + 22 € port.
There are also 14" TV's 75-89 €.
The 21" JVC seems to be fine !
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Hi to all and to Darth Nuno
I will try to translate my previous post in English, as I didn't know we were not allowed to speak other languages here.
Hello EvilDindon, and thanks to you for writing your post in English, so all friends here can read the thing too ;) :oops:
Even if the picture is "100% arcade accurate", as you say, I've got an overscan problem that is general on the 3 TV sets I tried at home / a sony KV29FX20B, a Thomson 21" bought new 4 years ago at carrefour, and the recent 14" sony one that is supposed to be in the cab.
You've got the well know 'I want to have all the games in their native resolution, arcade accurate and fitting all the screen area... on the same monitor' problem with my AVGA ::)
The best compromise would be the use of the AVGAres tool, that set all the games resolution... but I presume it's not the answer you want to hear isn't it ? ::) :P
OK, let me explain how I proceed :-*
Here's the chart :
1. What do I want to do :
a) A mame cab for playing all the games but I don't need controls that requires USB port or anything related to windows -> I go with a DOS advance Mame (I'll explain why using the DOS later)
b) The same mame cab but I want to use a spinner + trackball, maybe analog joystick, driving wheel, shifter, yoke or whatever that used an USB or windows drivers : I have no other choice than Windows because the drivers for the special controls
For both solution... I'll use an ArcadeVGA card because it's simply the best card to handle so different resolutions... of course, a compromise has to be done... How a horizontal monitor would be handle so many resolutions / orientations / frequencies and having the perfect display on your screen ?
2. No No No ... I have a dedicated game, the pcb is working but I just need to replace the broken monitor by a TV using a RGB scart connector :
In that case, I'm building a custom PCB to SCART adapter, and YES, on most recent TV you don't have a setting for the horizontal screen size.
It's not a problem at all for all my pcb, by example :arrow:
Pleiads :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/pleiads/pleiades-7.jpg)
or Zaxxon by example :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/zaxxon/zaxxon_monitor3.jpg)
If sometime the horizontal position of the game is not good, I pick up an other TV and I always found a good one (I've more than 10 *brand new TV in boxed* here, and some second hand TV too 8)).
On exception : Rolling Thunder and the Manathan TV :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/rolling/rtm21.jpg) (see the full post (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=197.0).)
As you can see, a small part of the game is missing on the left and right. I'm sure If I try with an other TV, I would have a different result, but at that time, I haven't an other TV to try with... ::)
But guess what ? It's not a problem for me... because back in the Days, some game wasn't set correctly too ... so it's a kind of 'root' display IMO... and I love that too ;) ;D :-*
OK, here the 'ULTIMATE setup' :
3. I have a dedicated game, but the pcb is NOT working and I need to replace the broken monitor by a TV using a RGB scart connector and I don't need special controls :
Go with Advance Mame DOS and the wonderful tool 'AdvanceCFG' that allows you to set the horizontal size perfectly, and because ... in my case ... I only need to emulate ONE game ... I'm sure the display game area will be perfectly set on the screen (See my Galaga, Donkey Kong or even Time Pilot by example). In addition you don't need an expensive ArcadeVGA... just a cheap ATI card (AGP recommend).
4. I have a dedicated game, but the pcb is NOT working and I need to replace the broken monitor by a TV using a RGB scart connector and I need special controls, like a yoke for Star Wars by example :
I've to go with Windows for the specials controls (Yoke on USB by example). Cheap ATI card are not the best option here, but it depends the nature of the game to emulate (Vector games need good CPU power). Of course, because it's an emulation and not the real board, the illusion of having the real thing MUST BE perfect... it means same frame rate, no lag... using same controls, same display (RGB). So I finally put the latest ArcadeVGA... and I use the ArcadeVGA resolution tool in order to have the best display for the game to emulate... and If it's not perfect, than I go with the parameters from the TV service menu... for a fine tuning ;)
Nuno, did you had, with your "manhattan", "bluesky" or "digihome" TV's, to adjust the horizontal screensize ? Or is it good by default even for namco games ? I saw your galaga restoration, and the image is fullscreen with no overscan at all. :o :o :o
For the Pac Man, I'm using the NAMCO Classic Collection pcb and it fits perfectly the screen on a bluesky TV used :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/pacman/tvt11.jpg)
Regarding the Galaga, I'm using Advance Mame, and if it's not right like this (missing scores) :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/galaga/scart5.jpg)
...after changing the setting in advance mame (advj.exe if I remember well), it's perfect ...and accurate :D :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/galaga/supb5.jpg)
PS : Hope to see you someday if I come to Belgium. I'll drink a beer instead of Dr Pepper I think : in fact I never tasted it ! ;) ;) ;) ;)
Be me guest... when you want :-* :spaceace:
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Thanx DN for your very detailed and friendly answer !
So, when I summarize the thing, in my case I want a (mini) mamecab with a vertical TV thru scart RGB to play classics and some modern shoot'em up.
But, the service mode does not allow to set the horizontal size, only the position.
It results in some overscan, specially on 288x224 namco games.
So,if I understood you, my only solution is to use advancemame under dos, that will allow me to set the horizontal size perfectly ?
It means that I will not be able to use a spinner, right ?
3 last questions, and I stop bothering you :
1/ What program let you set this parameter, caus actually, you're talking about AdvanceCFG and advj.exe. I never used dosmame and dos programs in general, so i'm a little lost.
2/ Must I use the ArcdeVGA, even for a dos mamecab ? In fact I've got some spare graphics cards like an AGP geforce 2MX200 and a PCI SIS card, that should work with advancemame. (I read that if I use the ArcadeVGA with advancemame and advancemenu, I must not set the "arcade monitor" configuration, is it true ?)
3/ Does advancemenu contain the drivers for soundcards (like soundblaster)or onboard soundchips like realtek ?
Lastly, could you upload an image of the Dos+advancemame compact flash card that you used on some of your configuration ?
Thanx in advance,
Mike from france
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all programs named advcfg and advj (did you mean advv by the way, as advj is intended for joystick support tests.
advancemame can work without any card, no need of arcade vga. advance has support for standard audio soundcard, and if you find the DOS driver of your on-board audio chipset, it should work. Verified with VIA AC97 and SIS modern chips.
For the purpose you want to use your cab, it's not a bad idea to go through advancemame. Maybe you can find useful tutorials on french gamoover board. Take a look also at easycab that may help you to easily install your DOS configuration.
If you don't know yet, and if you gfx cards is well supported, you can also use svga NT drivers provided with advancemame, windows edition.
it's a bit tricky to make it work but results are worth the pain :
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/103/advmenu6om.th.jpg)(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5614/rodland4sr.th.jpg)(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4585/kageki5ld.th.jpg)
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8520/19xx1qo.th.jpg)
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/183/toki7ql.th.jpg)
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8046/ironman8kb.th.jpg)(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9410/tmnt1ba.th.jpg)
advancemame under windows XP using old ATI rage pro video card.
OS supported : NT, 2000, XP (is it enough ?)
But as I said before, under windows it's far more difficult to get a stable set up than under DOS.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Hey, you know what ?
I FOUND THE SOLUTION !! :o :o :o
Actually, it was very simple, dunno why i never thought to do this ?
The solution is that I SET A RESOLUTION IN MAME THAT IS A BIT WIDER THAN THE NATIVE GAME's RESOLUTION
For example, for 288x224 games (Namco, etc.), I set the .ini file for each game the following resolution : 304x240 : AND IT FITS PERFECTLY THE SCREEN !!! (I'll post pictures later). Mame adds 8 blank lines at top and bottom of the game (speaking vertically, of course), so the overscan has no more effect !!!
For 256x224 games, I set the following resolution : 288x224. Mame adds 16 lines at top and bottom. It results in a little blank space at top and bottom of the vertical games, but nothing really bothering. For a perfect result, a 272x240 resoltuion should be set, but ArcadeVGA's bios doesn't contain such a resolution. Do you know if we can add resolutions to ArcadeVGA ? (I read somewhere a windows registry manipulation to tweak the ati driver, but can not find it now ...)
Unfortunately, for namco games, my sony trinitron 14" TV that is intended to go to the cab don't like the 304x240 resolution, nor the 296x240 one : it cuts the left size of the pacman maze (top of screen in horizontal position), and playing with the vertical position paramter on the service mode has no effect.
On my 21" Thomson TV it works great, the left size is not cut, It's 100% perfect arcade accurate !!
So, it's only a Sony TV issue, and it's not a big problem.It means, also, that I can use windows mame with my ArcadeVGA, so I can install a spinner on the cab (for arkanoïd)
I've got 2 solutions to workaround the "sony" trouble :
1/ Buying another 14" TV (not a trinitron this time)
2/ Setting the namco games to the following resolution : 321x240
I think I'll go for the 2nd option, caus It's a good compromise : the maze fits perfectly the screen both vertical and horizontal, but there is a blank space at top and bottom of the game (about 1 cm).
Hey DN, for your Rolling thunder overscan, You should try to set 304x240 like I did for my vertical games : You'll see, the game will fit perfectly the screen !!, as mame will add 8 blank lines on both sides !
But I dunno if your Rolling Thunder cab is based an the original PCB or a PC+Advancemame configuration. Maybe If you're a purist, you may go for the PC+advancemame to replace the original PCB, and to have a fullscreen no overscanned game.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Thanks Funky for the additional notes (and the correction regarding the 'advj' comand ::) :P) :-*
I FOUND THE SOLUTION !! :o :o :o
Actually, it was very simple, dunno why i never thought to do this ?
The solution is that I SET A RESOLUTION IN MAME THAT IS A BIT WIDER THAN THE NATIVE GAME's RESOLUTION
Ok, but be sure the resolution modification won't affect the correct ratio of the pixels on screen.
If the ration is wrong, in galaga by example, the shape (or size) of your ship could be different on different part of the screen :-\ ...or the move of your ship would not be 'smooth', or other sprites on your screen could have missing pixels because mame removes some lines or columns :-X ...
A good test I use to do is trying Xevious and see if there's no deformation during the vertical scrolling. If the ratio is good, you should have a perfect scrolling...
After that, just test Wonder Boy and see if you have a smooth scrolling too ;)
Hey DN, for your Rolling thunder overscan, You should try to set 304x240 like I did for my vertical games : You'll see, the game will fit perfectly the screen !!, as mame will add 8 blank lines on both sides !
But I dunno if your Rolling Thunder cab is based an the original PCB or a PC+Advancemame configuration. Maybe If you're a purist, you may go for the PC+advancemame to replace the original PCB, and to have a fullscreen no overscanned game.
Well, as I said I'm using the real board, and it's fine for me like that... it's a "root" display, like it used to be in the past... :D :D :D
Anyway, there are many solutions for all our config problems... and only experience (testing a lot of different GFX card, soundcard, TV Display, ADV configuration, ... ) and informations sharing will give us all the answers 8)
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Ok I'll try to see if my solution affects the scrolling and/or the uniformity of pixels on the screen.
But I'm pretty sure that it won't :
By using direct draw with no hardware stretch, the game display is not modified and centered by mame on the screen at the resolution you set.
Actually, Mame adds 16 blank columns (8 on bottom and 8 at top), so the TV overscans only the blank columns (horizontally speaking).
It does exactly the same for the 224 lines resolutions : mame picks the correct 240 line cga resolution, for example 384x240 and adds 8 blank lines at top and bottom.
I'll try to put some pictures to show you it's "arcade accurate" ;)
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Ok, back in home and I've done your test Nuno : EVERYTHING IS PERFECT on scrollings and pixels uniformity.
See those pictures (Windows Mame 0.110 + arcadevga) :
1/ Xevious : 288x224@304x240 : Perfection ! (actually the left size is cut a bit due to the Sony TV, but in this game that is not noticeable) :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i269736_IMG3159.JPG)
2/ Ms Pac Man : 288x224@304x240 : same result as above, except that for those maze games, I won't use that resolution : The maze is cut on the left size, but that's a specific sony TV issue with this resolution (The result on the Thomson TV is PERFECT vertically and horizontally) :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i269742_IMG3164.JPG)
3/ The workaround for pac man games : For example, Pac Man : 288x224@321x240 : good compomise for my Sony TV no more maze cut on the left, and 1cm blank space at top and bottom :
(http://imageshack-france.com/out.php/i269746_IMG3160.JPG)
Et voilà !
I'm a very happy man.
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Wonderful :-* :-* :-* Very good job, and ... wow... we've got now a new solution for such screen size problems, thanks to you :) :-*
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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I'm sure it will help fools like me who want to make a vertical (or horizontal, it works both sides) mamecab with an arcade VGA and a TV.
;)
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good news evil dindonneau :lol:
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Hi to everyone, I'm joseph from italy; I like Mame and other emu and I'm here for a reason: I've made a complete vga-to scart cable construction guide, maybe you could find it usefoul (but a lot of people here seems to be already very expert on this...)
so this is the link: http://digilander.libero.it/venturi1975/
I'm very luck to leave in europe ( I also work in a big electronic store) so (as you wrote above in this thread) is very easy form me to find CRT TV with scart RGB... very rare outside Europe.
hope this can help you!
bye!
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Hello Josef1975,
Great documentation, and complete. I've used your language translator because I don't speak Italian :oops: but because you've putted a lot of pictures, it really helps ;)
Thanks for your link.
:spaceace:
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Another old topic .... :P
a nice spare tv/monitor Inno-hit brand (as Bluesky - digihome - manhattan etc .... do you know Bruno? M4725 ;) :-*)
and this time for only 25€ :shock: :spaceace: junk for normal people ;)
as new:
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1300/tv1eu.jpg) (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/tv1eu.jpg/)
perfect image as always:
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2755/tv2jw.jpg) (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/tv2jw.jpg/)
:pac: :ghost:
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Hey guys ... here in Italy is the right time ;D
2 tv (in perfect working condition, nice picture) for ..............
30€ :o :o
:-* :-* :spaceace: :spaceace:
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8286/2tv.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/2tv.jpg/)
Let's stock ... let's stock :pac: :ghost:
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what's the max distance you're driving for those tvs? is there anything special (menu-/screenwise) you're paying attention when buying them?
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what's the max distance you're driving for those tvs? is there anything special (menu-/screenwise) you're paying attention when buying them?
Distance 50Km max.
Yes there is a ghost menù (me and Bruno know it very well :P - the nice and tested brand are: INNO HIT - BLUESKY - KENNEX - MANHATTAN and UNITED here in Italy) and yes I check the TVs (on/off ;) screen conditions - geometry conditions etc...).
These TV work perfectly at 60hz :-* :-* nice and stable image
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Yes there is a ghost menù (me and Bruno know it very well :P - the nice and tested brand are: INNO HIT - BLUESKY - KENNEX - MANHATTAN and UNITED here in Italy) and yes I check the TVs (on/off ;) screen conditions - geometry conditions etc...).
all these manufacturers are pretty unknown here in germany :(
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Yes there is a ghost menù (me and Bruno know it very well :P - the nice and tested brand are: INNO HIT - BLUESKY - KENNEX - MANHATTAN and UNITED here in Italy) and yes I check the TVs (on/off ;) screen conditions - geometry conditions etc...).
all these manufacturers are pretty unknown here in germany :(
The United brand is also used in Denmark (the other brands, have i never heard of)
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I don't know if this PDF has been mentioned before, or if it is the right thread - but it's been helpfull to me on several occasions - when looking for a TV to replace an arcade monitor.
http://www.kaedebycafeen.dk/pdf/TV-Service-Mode.pdf
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I don't know if this PDF has been mentioned before, or if it is the right thread - but it's been helpfull to me on several occasions - when looking for a TV to replace an arcade monitor.
http://www.kaedebycafeen.dk/pdf/TV-Service-Mode.pdf
Thanks for the link, that will be very helpful. :)
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a lot of old b/w games like atari football or boot hill used 23'' b/w monitors.
just out of curiosity (and for another reason ;)): can those 23'' b/w monitors be replaced by 23'' b/w tvs as well?
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I'have read some where that is is also possible to replace a B/w monitor whit a color monitor. On mosts game pcb's there is a place to tap of the signal for a rgb connector so it displays onli b/w i have read some where that somebody replaced his space invaders monitor whit a color 1
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a lot of old b/w games like atari football or boot hill used 23'' b/w monitors.
just out of curiosity (and for another reason ;)): can those 23'' b/w monitors be replaced by 23'' b/w tvs as well?
Should be, as long as it isn't for a game like for instance Pong. The old b/w tv's aren't capable of handling such a frantic gameplay with quick gamemovements. :)
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I guess a little hacking is needed as b/w TVs can't handle the video signal from the PCB (RF/antenna input only, no Scart RGB input obviously ;)).
(Ully, did you read the PM I wrote on AI???)
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(Ully, did you read the PM I wrote on AI???)
nope!!! damn, how could i have missed it? must have been the busy weekend, i'll answer you soon - SORRY!!!
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If you have schematics then it is possible to insert the video signal that comes from a b/w game into a b/w TV. However, try find a B/W TV these days......and then the schematics...
I know that it is possible because when I was young (and thus poor) I had a portable B/W TV as a monitor on my Atari 600XL and some (older) friend hacked in the monochrome (=b/w) video signal into it. It looked great.
The very first games like Computer Space had actual TV's in them, and you can bet that they hacked the video signal into them (and did not produce a HF signal from the game PCB that then would be translated back by the TV, that would give a much worse picture and would cost a lot of extra money for the HF converter on the game PCB.
Remember, an (old) TV is nothing more than a monitor with a built-in receiver. Leave out the receiver part and you have a monitor. If you can find where the receiver has decoded the HF signal (the radio emissions that used to go through the air) into the video signal, you can insert the signal of a game PCB there. So you bypass the entire HF decoding section.
Using a color TV instead of a B/W one is possible but I would only suggest it as a last resource. You can feed the video signal to the RGB connections on a SCART to get a picture. However, there are two big disadvantages:
1) convergence. A color TV is never 100% correctly converged. You will see some colors appearing in corners because of (slight) misconvergence. There's nothing to do about that. A slight misconvergence was acceptable and even specified on TV's. It's acceptable because in normal color TV use it is hardly noticeable. However, when you feed a B/W signal, especially one that is so simple as those from the really early games, it will be much more visable.
2) resolution. The old b/w tubes have a much higher resolution (dot-pitch) then color tubes. This is especially clear on B/W vector games, but it's true for all B/W games. Now, with Pong that doesn't really matter much because of the extreme blockiness of the picture, but with f.i. Computer Space or let's say Sprint, where there is much more "advanced" graphics it's more noticeable.
Still......it is a very viable solution if you can't find a real B/W option !!!
The tube size can be a problem though....23" may have been a regular size for B/W tubes, it certainly isn't for color tubes....
This is especially destructive for Video Pinball. The screen has to exactly overlap/match the playfield and the LED's so a different size tube is out of the question. That's why I pray that the one in my VP is still working....
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If you have schematics then it is possible to insert the video signal that comes from a b/w game into a b/w TV. However, try find a B/W TV these days......and then the schematics...
thx for your lenghty explanation, andré, another great read full of information. i'm currently trying to find out the exact model that b/w tv is and if it comes with the schematics or if those schematics can be found somewhere on the net. would be nice to have some b/w tvs as spares as well! and it is definitly 23''
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Don't laugh... I'm sure it'll be very hard to buy new TV CRT like that very soon :-\ Let's stock them ;)
Ha ! how right you were Bruno !
Of course this was 6 years ago...try to find NIB CRT TVs now.....good luck !
Anyway, I wanted to ask you something: did you ever open one of those Bluesky TVs ?
I would love to know the CRT number inside :)
Alternatively.....could you make a close up picture of the CRT with like your finger or a euro coin as reference for the size ?
Asking all this stuff because I'd like to see what dot pitch the CRT has....so it has to be really close- up ;) but tubenumber would be easiest...
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All the TV boxed are still... boxed! :)
I use to get the second hand ones first, keeping preciously the ones in box.
But one of them, the first one from this lot, was used for my Red DK. I'll check the number requested in that cabinet for you, no problem 8)
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There are a couple of hotels in my area currently selling their TVs for low money (10 EURs each). I may get 40 TVs soon :)
I need them anyway for my exhibition (I currently have 26 TVs) and my console Kiosk Display Units....and it's nice to get 40 TVs of the same size and label.
But where to store them...I need a new "TV Room" :lol:
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if you don't know what to do with them, i'd gladly take a few off your hands! :)
btw, what do you mean with "26 tvs for an exhibition"?
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if you don't know what to do with them, i'd gladly take a few off your hands! :)
btw, what do you mean with "26 tvs for an exhibition"?
http://www.retro-spektive.de/ (http://www.retro-spektive.de/) and http://facebook.com/retrospektive (http://facebook.com/retrospektive) and http://www.retro-lounge.com (http://www.retro-lounge.com)
...and many more websites coming by end of march...exhibition 2014...and the BIG ONE 2015... 8)
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I see a familiar guy and a familiar game :D
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I see a familiar guy and a familiar game :D
Billy Gibbons, Black Beard, Abraham Lincoln ??? ??? Who is that..... :P
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I see a familiar guy and a familiar game :D
Billy Gibbons, Black Beard, Abraham Lincoln ??? ??? Who is that..... :P
I believe its this guy :D
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=profile;u=1369
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Anyway, I wanted to ask you something: did you ever open one of those Bluesky TVs ?
I would love to know the CRT number inside :)
Here's the CRT model inside :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum3/samsung_a48ecr43x01.jpg)
Hungary powered! ;D
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Thank you Bruno !
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Got a bunch of TVs CRT to test... had a great time doing that today :-* :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum4/yars.jpg)
My fav' 2600 game! :-*
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Yars' Revenge, yeah!!! ;D