Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Muerto on February 12, 2010, 06:10:03 PM
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When it come´s to electric repairs, i´m very green, so i try to listen when my brother comes over to fix/guide me...
When i received my Dig Dug i was still setup for US use, maby that´s why it wasn't working.. ::) (and, the GND on the power wire was used instead of "0" and "N"!!!!!)
So this is basicly a 101 in turning an ATARI power block into one there can be used in Europe (in this case Denmark)
The power brick looked like this, instead of the Brown voltage selection block wire there was a yellow one:
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/atari4.jpg)
Close up:
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/atari3.jpg)
This what was in the machine when i received it:
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/atari2.jpg)
And this explains it all: (if you understand it!)
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/atari1.jpg)
So, as the schematic says this was set up with the Yellow voltage selection block (120V)
Hope some one can use this, and if someone out there have other 101 in some arcade related, please share! - ill be reading it!
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thx michael! i was surprised though that you could actually SEE the colors of the wires because that power block is so damn dirty. strip it down and clean it, that's an order! 8) if you don't do that, stefan won't be delivering your games ... ;)
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Bah, nevermind the dirt, but do yourself and the game a favor and change that big blue capacitor, even it works! That's more important than cleaning ;D
Unfortunately it seems only available in the US (Bob Roberts or arcadeshop).
And check if the fuses have the right value, often they were replaced with wrong ones because ops did not have the right ones at hand.
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Bah, nevermind the dirt, but do yourself and the game a favor and change that big blue capacitor, even it works! That's more important than cleaning ;D
Unfortunately it seems only available in the US (Bob Roberts or arcadeshop).
puh, i should do that on my games as well. where's the link to the replacement caps, laschek? ;)
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Check Bob Roberts page for "Big Blue" (Atari Parts).
I should have ordered 100 and sell them to you now for a fortune ;D ;)
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Can someone tell me the values of this capacitor ? (i belief they also call it ""elco")
I read somewhere its 28,000uf , but i dont know the voltage of this one... is it 240V ?
Im curious what the electronic shop here asks for these, so i want to inform at them
.. oh ans while your checking , what are the physical dimentions ? in mm. please 8)
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It's supposed to be 27000µF/15V, but according to Bob Roberts anything between 27000µF and 35000µF is OK. You can also buy a higher voltage one, never lower!
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Originally they were 26000 uF/15VDC, but according to Bob Roberts anything from 26000 to 32000uF should work.
They are 50mm in diameter, length varies, I had some which were 80 mm, some 60.
They need screw type terminals.
Check Bob Roberts article on Big Blues:
http://homearcade.org/BBBB/bigblue.html
I doubt that you will find them in the local shop, Bob Roberts had them manufactured because they are not available anymore. Do NOT buy NOS ones, electrolytic capacitators go bad (they dry out) even if they are not in use and have been in store for years...
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It's supposed to be 27000µF/15V, but according to Bob Roberts anything between 27000µF and 35000µF is OK. You can also buy a higher voltage one, never lower!
i know its not a nice smell if you use lower voltage elco's with higher voltage in them 8)
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And it's really nasty when they explode, all that messy stuff everywhere :lol:
I highly doubt Bob Roberts has these specially manufactured though, electrolytic capacitors are widely available in every size, capacity, voltage, terminal type.... Even those ancient 50µF/500V capacitors for those ancient tube electronics are still manufactured today. I bought a couple of them a few weeks ago, expensive MFers :(
Here is one 27000µF/50V / 50 mm diameter / screw type terminal for example:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=565-3324-ND
I also used these types regularly when I was restoring 70's audio amplifiers.
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"Quantity available: 3"
Hmm, how old are they?
At least that's what Bob said, I suppose, what do I know? ;D ;)
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thx michael! i was surprised though that you could actually SEE the colors of the wires because that power block is so damn dirty. strip it down and clean it, that's an order! 8) if you don't do that, stefan won't be delivering your games ... ;)
as you can see ill do anything to get my games!, so for ully and those who could not see the colors, here´s some new pics of the cleaned power supply: ;D
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/ataric2.jpg)
And the cleaned brown voltage selection block:
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/ataric1.jpg)
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well done, michael! i've written you an email regarding the games from stefan. :)
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"Quantity available: 3"
Hmm, how old are they?
At least that's what Bob said, I suppose, what do I know? ;D ;)
It's of course possible that Bob had them special made, I'm not questioning what he told you ;). It just seems weird that he had them special made when they already exist.
The caps from digikey are not going to be very old, and they are still in production (so you can order a brand new batch from the factory ;D). Digikey just doesn't stock up much on those uncommon caps. I ordered a few of those large can capacitors a while ago (not that type I linked to) for those old amp restores and the oldest cap was about 8 months old (date code on cap).
There are more types to be found but they are going to be smaller than 50mm diameter mostly, because over time all discrete components get smaller due to new materials, production process,..
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as you can see ill do anything to get my games!, so for ully and those who could not see the colors, here´s some new pics of the cleaned power supply: ;D
(http://muerto.x10hosting.com/images/arc/ataric2.jpg)
Thats looking a lot better if you ask me :spaceace:
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but they are going to be smaller than 50mm diameter mostly,
So what, size doesn't matter :D
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I've changed a US (yellow) wired block to 230VAC on Luc's SW cockpit as well. It's very easy to do and well worth it because it saves you a nasty step-down transformer....
BUT PLEASE MARK THE CHANGED OVER BLOCK FOR THE VOLTAGE YOU CHANGED IT TOO !!!!
Else maybe some day in the future someone might actually think it's a 120VAC one because of the wire color....
Oh, and better believe that Bob has those Big Blue's made specially for him. They are the only BLACK "Big Blue's".....and even carry that name (which another factory is _very_ unlikely to do):
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100675/DSCF3260/web.jpg?ver=12660133310001)
By the way, the "Big Blue" on the Irish machines are not always Blue _and_ they are often a bit smaller....
I've been replacing caps as is so often suggested, and sometimes yes there are bad caps, but recently I've started to doubt if there REALLY is necessary. F.I. my Berzerk and MC machines are both un-capped (monitor & the rest of the machines) and work beautifully. I've measured ripple on Berzerk Power Supply and it was non-existent.
The real issue with old(er) caps is that the ESR starts to rise. The capacity itself is usually way over spec when the caps are new, and often still OK after a long time. You can't measure the ESR with a regular multi-meter.
I'm thinking of buying one of these:
http://www.radiodevices.ru/esr/esr4.htm
Yes it's russian, but it looks a lot more modern and professional then it's "Western" competitors.
It's also cheap and it runs on two lithium cells and uses a low power LCD instead of energy eating LEDs.
Anyway, here's the English manual:
http://www.radiodevices.info/esr/esr4_en.pdf
It also explains about ESR etc...
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I've been looking at that tester too in the past, but where/how can you buy it?
Yeah, like you say, the most common problem with caps is the esr that increases (sometimes dramaticaly) over time. I tend to buy low esr caps most of the time when I'm replacing old ones, because there isn't much price diff with the regular ones these days.
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http://www.radiodevices.info/zakaz_e.php
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To put a little weight on the other side of the scale, I have also been thinking about replacing caps (elco's, a much better word IMHO) on vector PCB's and monitors with hi-end audio quality one's.
I know this may sound stupid, but at least the amplification stages of vector monitors are very comparable to audio amps.
However, I checked the PCB vector stages and they actually don't have any (or not many) elco's at all....
The monitors do have some of course....
If it would (further) improve the picture quality it's definitely worth trying...
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I've been replacing caps as is so often suggested, and sometimes yes there are bad caps, but recently I've started to doubt if there REALLY is necessary. F.I. my Berzerk and MC machines are both un-capped (monitor & the rest of the machines) and work beautifully. I've measured ripple on Berzerk Power Supply and it was non-existent.
I remember when i won the NIB hantarex MTC 900, a lot of people told me to do a cab kit, but it works beautiful and no cab replaced.
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To put a little weight on the other side of the scale, I have also been thinking about replacing caps (elco's, a much better word IMHO) on vector PCB's and monitors with hi-end audio quality one's.
I know this may sound stupid, but at least the amplification stages of vector monitors are very comparable to audio amps.
However, I checked the PCB vector stages and they actually don't have any (or not many) elco's at all....
The monitors do have some of course....
If it would (further) improve the picture quality it's definitely worth trying...
In my amplifier restores I mostly used the Matsushita/Panasonic FC series (for the elco's). These have low impedance and thus they are great for audio purposes, and they are affordable too :). Unless you want to upgrade to the really expensive audio specialty brands of course. I looked into these for my restores but I figured the price was too high, take maybe 5x more expensive for 1.5x quality gain. I was still on a student budget so it had to be relatively cheap :) Although I still would buy the FC series now if I could it all over again. I'm very happy with their performance. If it was a tube amp I would go for the expensive stuff.
I also replaced a lot of polyester caps with polypropylene. I know these don't dry out like elco's, but they have more gentle characteristics. Which is great for audio :)
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I'm aware we are completely de-railing this thread but what Amps did you restore ?
I'm looking to get a Marantz receiver in the 22 series for the game room. Will have a great retro look and of course a very good sound quality.
I checked my SW PCB again yesterday, and there are very few elco's used in the vector section (looks like only for the voltage regulators). The other caps are pretty weird looking one's. Some are ceramic some polypropylene I guess....I don't think these get worse over time ?
I actually e-mailed about this with Jed Margolin (the guy behind SW). I mentioned that sometimes f.i. letters on the screen look a bit "crooked" and he mentioned this:
It could be the integration capacitors in the Vector Generator. Make sure to
use the correct type of capacitor. (I think they are polypropylene.)
I'll see if I can make a close-up shot of the vector section so you can see what caps are used all over...
And I'll start a new thread about this.... ;)
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Yeah, it's probably best you start a new thread where we can discuss caps. :)
As for the amps, I had a load of Pioneers, 2 Marantz and 2 Akai. Sold all of them except 1 Pioneer, because I didn't repair it, and after all those years, it's still not repaired :oops:. It only needs two new transistors in the preamp stage.
I also had numerous tape decks (the ones with reels), cassette decks, turntables,... (These were various brands: Sony, Pioneer, Technics, Thorens, Nakamichi, Akai,...)
Almost all was sold when I was 19 because I wanted a car.... :-\
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Is it evil to advise to replace it with something like this:
(http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-powersupply1.jpg)
Comes in 12/5/-5 and 12/5/24V flavours.
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guess not, but if the original one is working, it´s cheaper to move a few wires around ;)
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Very evil !
Gotta love the hum of the original linear supply. They are also simple (in construction and to repair) and IMHO more reliable.
They are also part of the original cabinet and it's cool to keep them running that way...