Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Arcade Lifestyle => Topic started by: level42 on September 09, 2011, 09:23:26 AM
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[EDIT]
Made a "steps" list for the restoration here to keep track of progress :):
V- remove hacked in switcher PSU and Jamma cabling
V- restore power harness
V- restore main harness
V- restore interboard harness -> PCB connector replaced with new
V- restore/check/adapt Power Brick
V- clean cab
V- restore wood
V- paint cab
V- install side-art
V- installl front-art
V- install black vinyl
V- get monitor mounts
V- install monitor
V- check PCB set-up
V- check sound board
V- mount knocker
V- reinstall harnesses
V- mount PCBs
V- buy fluorescent tube
V- install fluorescent tube
V- install marquee and bezel
V- install battery back up instead of Super Cap
V- restore coin door
V- prime, paint and install marquee retainer
V- install repro serial tags etc.
[End of Edit]
Rewind. It's the early 80's. Near my school in Rotterdam there is this funny little "shop". I don't understand it's concept, but they sell soft drinks and they have 1 pinball machine, 1 foosball table and 1 arcade videogame.
I never understood how they earned enough money. But I was "green" then. My recent thoughts were that it must have been a Coffeeshop before they were officially condoned here...and looky looky, it still IS a Coffeeshop today (for those who don't know, in The Netherlands Coffeeshops is where you don't go if want a cup of coffee ;))
Here's a Google Streetview screenshot:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=8910;image)
Anyway, I never noticed any weird smells then, but we were simply 100% focussed on that single arcade game: Ms.Pac Man !!!
I played that game the most of all arcade games in my youth (and still suck at it :P)
It was always there when we had an unexpected hour free because of an ill teacher or in the regular breaks.
Then, one day, we step in and.....our beloved Ms.Pac is GONE !!! VANISHED !!! HOLY CRAP !!! I immediatly go to the owner to ask if he had gone mad....but he says, hey it started to earn less....and there's a great new game there now. So I replied, there is no better game than Ms.Pac ....but what could we do. We had a look at the new machine and OK, it looked kinda neat. So reluctantly throw in a guilder and push the joystick. Eeeeeeeeewwww...mmmm, looks like you must not move up friends, but that sure sounded funny ! (My memory tells me there was no "tock" from a knocker. I am also not sure if it was an original cab). The next steps are already a bit better and I manage to keep on this weird pyramid a bit longer...
Anyway, you figured it out, it was Q*bert and my love for the game was born right there.
Later I played it first by renting the 2600 cart (looked pretty wacky, but the gameplay wasn't bad) and then of course on my Atari 600XL.
So, fast forward into the 2000's.....I start collecting these big ass wooden boxes with classic games. Naturally, Q*bert immediately comes to my mind to own, but reality sets in very quickly. Impossible to find in Europe.
At one point I find a very nice one on e-bay in the US, just by accident. The price was very low, and I briefly considered having it transported to here. However, apart from the money, it seemed almost impossible to me at that time. So I tipped it off on KLOV and a forum member there bought it and restored it and he owes me big time until this day ;) ;)
Then FFW again to november 2010. I am at a arcade gathering somewhere in Germany. While chatting around outside I notice a van and in a blink of the eye something seems to pop in my mind.......Q*BERT !!! There's a Q*BERT in there ! So I walk up to the van and peer through the window. To my utter surprise it turns out to be not one, but TWO Q*bert next to each other !!! What the @!#?@!
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100830/DSCF6094/web.jpg?ver=12897616930001)
Naturally I anxiously (yet trying to look cool) start to ask around who's machines these are ? I quickly find out and I happen to know these guys ;) (Already bought my Joust from them...)
Sooooo....we get into a chat and it turns out they want to make one good working Q*bert out of these two machines....so I immediately smell my chance and ask what you're going to do with the "leftover" ?? Not sure yet is the reply, so I "ask" if I can buy the left overs, I don't care what state it is in !
The next months I drop a mail every once in a while to ask about progress and if they're still letting my buy whatever is left...trying to act not to annoying yet still keeping them "awake" about my interest ;) ;)
And the rest of the story you guys know: Last weekend, the Q*bert was presented me by those too great guys at Eurocade !!
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/meeting/eurocade_2011/Eurocade_123.jpg)
List of required parts:
[EDIT]
- vertical monitor frame
- monitor shroud (plastic bezel)
- Control Panel [GOT IT] (thanks to Bruno !)
- joystick and harness + button holders [GOT IT] (Thanks to Peter on KLOV)
- buttons [GOT IT]
- CPO set [INSTALLED !]
- side art [GOT IT]
- Bezel [GOT IT]
- Marquee [GOT IT] [The "Swearing" version from Phoenixarcade)
- monitor [GOT IT] (Brand new WG waiting in box !]
- harness [GOT IT, fixed hacks and tested 100% !]
- PCB [GOT IT, fixed by Robin !]
- sound PCB [GOT IT, works 100% !]
- knocker [GOT IT]
- PSU board [GOT IT]
- (optional) Gottlieb insert for coin door (but not going to pay 40 bucks for it)
- yellow paint [DONE !]
- PSU [GOT IT, to be fixed]
- new TL tube (missing) [GOT IT]
- new starter (missing) [GOT IT]
- new black leathered T-molding [GOT IT]
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Nice story.
I love Q*bert too. I have to do it with 2 versions myself: the Videopac one, and the handheld from Parker.
The latter is an amazing conversion, and definitely in the top 5 of faithful arcade to handheld conversions. The only change they made was the size of the field. The handheld has a pyramid with 6 cube sides, where the arcade is 7 cube per side. Al the rest is excellent. Different patterns to colour the cubes, various badies chasing you, the elevators on the side, weird sounds. The graphics are amazing, and better than any console version from that time.
The videopac is very accurate in gameplay, but the graphics are Atari 2600 like too. Fun trivia on that one: I run it on a G7200, the one with built in B&W tube. With the contrast dial, you have to tweak Q*bert for every level. After yellow cubes against blue being nice bright grey and dark grey, the appearance of red and green of the next level might result in exact the same grey levels. By turning the dial, you can "bend" the chroma-channel to have different colour to grey conversion. If you connect it to a TV, you have the best image of any console made before 1990. It has RGB scart output! You can play Q*bert mirrored to a modern screen!
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Anyway, I never noticed any weird smells then
I think it smells like a combination of conifers, with men's sweat. Not a weird smell if you grow up like me being a boy scout and playing army in the, back then still widely available bushes in towns.
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So, now the BIG HUNT is open ! I need PARTS !
While we were ordering stuff from Phoenix arcade in the groupbuy some months ago, I figured I might as well already get the great "swearing" marquee:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100937/DSCF6831/web.jpg?ver=13062524660001)
To my surprise nobody asked why I actually bought it....but I was already pretty sure the cab would end up here ;D ;D
Through The Force it just happened that Bruno threw up his US Q*bert CP on the "Eurocade marketplace" EXACTLY on time, and naturally I "grabbed" it !
Man, that was the hardest part to get, shipping this from the US would be no fun (IF I could find one). Thank you Bruno ! (put a little extra in Bruno's daughter Sun's piggybank because I was so happy with the CP and the price !)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/4sale/qbertpanel1.jpg)
Further, through a WTB on KLOV I found a nice joystick with it's wiring that should be on it's way by now.
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101018/photo/web.jpg?ver=13155542180001)
Got some offer on boards but I am not in a real rush and prices are high (got some other older projects to finish first) so I've got my hope set on this:
http://www.jrok.com/xfer/msf/
I know, I know original hardware is sweet, but this cab has no original hardware or harness anymore and I am very happy with JROK's Multi-Williams board.
It has the following essentials for me:
1) No emulation
2) speech support
3) knocker support
4) nice but not necessary, multiple games
5) very reliable
6) good price
Now, bezel, side and CP art-set is being worked on....now I still need the buttons. Does anybody have a close-up of them (Bruno ?) I know they are transparent and I think red ? Are they long or short ? Are there leafs or micro-switches under them ? (Not that it really matters a lot, it's just for starting a game and I'm not anal about it in that case).
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Hey dre, cool that you finally got your grail!
if you need assistence let me know, i'll be glad to help you where needed.
(in the same way i can maybe forfill my sons question.... (to enter / play that "big blue-black airplane" as he likes to call it, again ;D)
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Hey dre, cool that you finally got your grail!
if you need assistence let me know, i'll be glad to help you where needed.
(in the same way i can maybe forfill my sons question.... (to enter / play that "big blue-black airplane" as he likes to call it, again ;D)
Hah...sure no problem !!! And thanks, I will definitely take you up on that offer !
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ok......now I understand your email...congratulations andre!
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Not only one but two Q-Berts @ eurocade and that was a damn sweet sight!
Really happy for you André!
(and I love the background story a lot)
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Congratulated you on your grail at Eurocade but what the heck ..... congratulations once again !
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Thanks guys !!!
....of course, there is always a new grail.... ;D ;D ;D
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We're really happy that you like the cab that much :) We were almost ashamed to bring it to Eurocade 'cause of its bad condition :roll:
Unfortunately I don't have a closeup picture of the panel...will do it and then you'll know what buttons are used. I think they are original and I also think you are right with your guess (red and transparent). I'm sure they are leafswitch but I'll take a look :)
Is the Multi-PCB already finished? If you will Jamma it I can send you a bootleg. It's without speech but at least you could paly 'til you get the Multi-PCB :)
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I have a repro Q*Bert Bezel. Its one that you just apply to a piece of glass. I can send you pictures if you want...
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And I just sold a working Q*Bert PCB last week. >:(
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And I just sold a working Q*Bert PCB last week. >:(
Too bad !!! That's my punishment for keeping it a secret :S
As long as you don't sell the DK panel to anyone else ;)
Bezel: Is that the same one like from Mikesarcade ?
@Luigi:
No , the mult-Mylstar FPGA is not finished yet but I know it will be a reality one day...
The bootleg Jamma _would_ definitely be an option to bridge that gap of time...I'll PM you !
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Congratulation Andre. Is it the same size cabinet than the cab of Bruno ?
So now.... WIP... and then... next Grail ????? ;D ;D
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great story, andré, isn't it just great when your childhood memories come back (to haunt you)?
regarding the bezel: i've ordered three from mike's arcade: one for you, one for thorsten / dirk and one for me. and we've already talked about the rest of the artwork, so when it comes to this you're done ...
regarding the multi-q*bert: i'm thinking about getting in on this one (http://revengeofthenerdsv.blogspot.com/2011/08/8-in-1-multi-qbert-project-launch.html) because it fits in nicely on the original board!
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And I just sold a working Q*Bert PCB last week. >:(
Too bad !!! That's my punishment for keeping it a secret :S
As long as you don't sell the DK panel to anyone else ;)
Bezel: Is that the same one like from Mikesarcade ?
@Luigi:
No , the mult-Mylstar FPGA is not finished yet but I know it will be a reality one day...
The bootleg Jamma _would_ definitely be an option to bridge that gap of time...I'll PM you !
That will teach you! :)
The DK CP is not going anywhere... I am just awaiting on a part that I'm missing for it. The bezel is not the one from Mike's arcade (I will find out where its from as I have the original paperwork). Its nice as It can be sent in a tube and then just applied to a piece of glass or Plexi. Its extremely high resolution...
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OK thanks Barry, but as you can see Ully already ordered one from Mikesarcade for me.....and Ully has special delivery options... ;)
Ully, do you know, is that a complete bezel or a "stick on" decal ?
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Ully, do you know, is that a complete bezel or a "stick on" decal ?
complete bezel, just put it in, so no screw-up possible :P
here's the description: Silk Screened on .117 acrylic, laser cut, and color matched. Comes premasked on both sides
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Cool !
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Great story André! - saw your Q-bert "box" at EuroCade, and it looked really nice!, and after playing some games on Bruno´s Q-bert, i (also) simply have to have this lovely game, just not rignt now though :-\ :roll:
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:o that @!#! is very rare. Must of spent A LOT of money to buy that thing! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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What do you mean, the marquee ? It's a repro from Phoenixarcade. Cost $60 ex shipping and import duties...
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Ohhhhhh....
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Congratulation Andre. Is it the same size cabinet than the cab of Bruno ?
So now.... WIP... and then... next Grail ????? ;D ;D
No mine is a US built Q*bert so it's a bit bigger than Bruno's.
I still have a number of projects:
-Ms.Pac
-Nintendo cab (from MB to DK, or maybe it will be a multi- Nintendo...but outer appearance will be DK.
-finish and sell Puckman
-video pinball
-Q*bert
-Joust
Pffff and plenty of smaller things to do on the other cabs....
Apart from that I still got a wild plan involving a race cab but I would need SPACE for that project .... anyone got some ? ;D ;D
but my collection is dearly missing a racing game...
But of course there's always a new grail.......mine is Gravitar....:)
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Nice story.
I love Q*bert too. I have to do it with 2 versions myself: the Videopac one, and the handheld from Parker.
The latter is an amazing conversion, and definitely in the top 5 of faithful arcade to handheld conversions. The only change they made was the size of the field. The handheld has a pyramid with 6 cube sides, where the arcade is 7 cube per side. Al the rest is excellent. Different patterns to colour the cubes, various badies chasing you, the elevators on the side, weird sounds. The graphics are amazing, and better than any console version from that time.
The videopac is very accurate in gameplay, but the graphics are Atari 2600 like too. Fun trivia on that one: I run it on a G7200, the one with built in B&W tube. With the contrast dial, you have to tweak Q*bert for every level. After yellow cubes against blue being nice bright grey and dark grey, the appearance of red and green of the next level might result in exact the same grey levels. By turning the dial, you can "bend" the chroma-channel to have different colour to grey conversion. If you connect it to a TV, you have the best image of any console made before 1990. It has RGB scart output! You can play Q*bert mirrored to a modern screen!
I don't think the regular Videopacs had RGB right ? I think they only had RF as output. I know it's not original, but you could upgrade that B/W to a color monitor if you find the right size ?
By the way, I also saw another Q*bert hand held by Tiger:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Electronics-Q-Bert-Table-Top-Game-/260850078663?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbbe053c7#ht_500wt_1413
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I like this one more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-BERT-DESK-TOP-VIDEO-GAME-/180722809289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13eb39c9 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-BERT-DESK-TOP-VIDEO-GAME-/180722809289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a13eb39c9)
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-Nintendo cab (from MB to DK, or maybe it will be a multi- Nintendo...but outer appearance will be DK.
Maybe impossible to achieve properly but whenever you'll start this conversion, do you think you could try to save your MB sidearts stickers for my MB widebody?
Might be worth a try if you don't mind... they are originals, they should be saved anyway ;)
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Well......I think the chance of winning the lottery is larger...but I will try for you !!!
Yes, that's going to be totally heart-breaking for me to do....
The funny thing is that I've never seen the color combination that is on my cab. It's different from all available repro's. So, maybe it's a wrong repro, maybe it's a (rare) original.....maybe Rav can answer this, since my cab originally came from him (although I only discovered that much later :P).
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I didn't notice that...cool, even better!
Thanks for trying (when the time will come of course)
I'll send you a bottle of un-du (http://scrapbooking.about.com/od/productreviews1/gr/reviewnewundu.htm) and do some magic rain dance while you apply it.
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Seriously, you're going to need a bigger bottle I guess ?
If it doesn't harm the red vinyl I could try it...
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G_R_E_A_T!
... and as you could read on the un-du webpage, it was even used in an episode of CSI Miami, what more could we ask ;D
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Mmmm, checked the video's on the website (www.un-du.com) looks pretty impressive but that seller..... ;D
They won't ship the stuff outside the US though, you have a local source ?
One thing I noticed in the FAQ:
Will un-du affect plastics?
un-du® is safe on most plastics but you should always test first.
So...that's what we'll need to do....
Also.....this will be a HELL lot of work. I was already heaving headaches about how to get them off without damaging the vinyl. Let's hope this is really as magic as they claim.
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Why dont you come over chris? ill be there too then ;)
we will have a mini eurocade :D
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Would be great :)
Another thought: once we have the stickers off they have to be
a) directly stuck to Chris's cab
or
b) put on a used adhesive backing that is large enough to make it possible to transport it, at least I hope that would work.
And then I had to think of my HUGE Ms.Pac stickers....one of those sides should be able to carry both MB stickers...
But this means that I'll have to do the Ms.Pac first....
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Of course I'll help (meaning playing in your SW cockpit while you test dangerous products on your beautiful Nintendo cab)!
About transportation, I think wax paper should do the trick.
I'm trying to locate some un-du in the area (already found some in a scrapbook webshop from France).
Wow, thanks already for even considering the option! :spaceace:
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so i guess i need to help you with the mrs pac first then ;)
clean, fill the dents, sand it and strip the t-moulding from that b#tch ;D
(might as well strip it complete and do a complete overhaul on your 2e grail...)
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Of course I'll help (meaning playing in your SW cockpit while you test dangerous products on your beautiful nintendo cab)!
LOL :D
Well I think this is beneficial for both parties , at least I hope ;D
OK so we put Ms. Pac to Nr.1.....
Yes my plan was already to fully strip her.... ;D
Handiest to work on it that way...I can do all the prepping and then we can arrange a date to do the Ms. Pac stickers (sure need some help with these :) ) and right after that the Nintendo sticker removal surgery.
...or if the wax paper will work then we don't Need do the Ms. First...
Chris do you think the stickers will still be sticky enough once you return home with it. Not sure if you still need to store it some time ? Is it a stupid idea to bring your MB here and do the transplant with both patients present ?
Just thinking out loud here...
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One more note: It's festival and concours time with the drum band which means extra rehearsals and of course performance days.
So progress can be a bit slow...
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dont worry, i am not boring yet ;)
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One more note: It's festival and concours time with the drum band which means extra rehearsals and of course performance days.
So progress can be a bit slow...
Which is a good thing in this case because it gives me some extra time.
As soon as I will receive the un-glu, I will test it on my Mario Bros stickers and let you know.
About bringing my cab, that's not a problem, the more the merrier ;)
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As soon as I will receive the un-glu, I will test it on my Mario Bros stickers and let you know.
never heard of that stuff, but it looks convincing (don't all promo videos do?) and i would have needed stuff like that on stickers before.
@chris: where are you going to order yours? i'd love to have a bottle of it as well!
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I found a scrapbook shop in France already (but it was too expensive) so I'm still looking for one in Belgium that has it.
I will spare one bottle for you of course.
It might come handuy too when I'll decide to apply that Mario Bros CPO too by the way ;)
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remember that andre's machine is not a widebody, so the CPO will probably not fit....
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Count me in, (als ik jullie niet teveel voor de voeten loop ;)). I really want to see how you apply the sticker and if it's something for my ms pac.
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@ Etienne: WonderUlly kindly provided me a repro CPO for the widebody.
@ Pieter: no prob, I'm just waiting for some news from a few scrapbooking shops here in Belgium, otherwise I'll order them via either ebay or that french shop.
Can we start a scrapbooking section on this forum ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Count me in, (als ik jullie niet teveel voor de voeten loop ;)). I really want to see how you apply the sticker and if it's something for my ms pac.
Do you know how to operate a videocam ?
Andre and me can do some technical talk, and chris is there for the humoristic quotes ;)
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Deal.
I'm gonna order the magical product via amazon UK and have it shipped to my mother in law's place in Oxford.
She should be visiting us in Belgium around November.
A: waiting that long is still OK for you?
B: who wants a bottle? it's £8.25 + shipping.
I can order and dispatch it later in November.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Remover-Debonder-4FL-118ml/dp/B001CL6Q8G (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Remover-Debonder-4FL-118ml/dp/B001CL6Q8G)
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A: waiting that long is still OK for you?
B: who wants a bottle? it's £8.25 + shipping.
i'm game!!!
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picked up another personal delivery from the states yesterday ;D
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6072/6158644364_e4990f41fc_b_d.jpg)
inside, not one, but three giant pieces of plexi. wanna make a guess what it is?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6205/6158102711_9ffed4d463_b_d.jpg)
let me hold it up against the light ... hmmm, that guy looks familiar 8)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6074/6158102831_976c51e826_b_d.jpg)
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Yeah I guess I'll take a bottle, hope it works as advertised....
I made a list of parts that the cab needs and the status of it in the first posting. If anyone can help with the parts, please let me know.
A little update:
I received an original Joystick from the US (thanks to Peter on the KLOV forum, incl. it's harness.
So funny: I never paid any attention to the Q*bert stick until I saw Bruno's lovely cab at Eurocade. I thought it looked exactly like a mini version of the Suzo sticks.
So...when I receive it I looked under it, and sure enough it said :STC ROTTERDAM" (STC meant Suzo Trading Company).
Funny to know this has been produced around the corner about 30 years ago and is now "back" home :)
It also explains why it's such a great stick :P
See the list in the first posting for further updates...
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Very nice Ully can't wait to put that in the cab ;D
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Piccy of the stick before Peter sent it to me:
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/101018/photo/web.jpg?ver=13156023870001)
He was nice enough to fully clean it AND put new hardware on it. He also shipped some bonus leaf button holders !!!
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Very cool that it's a dutch product. Are there any other besides the philips monitors?
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picked up another personal delivery from the states yesterday ;D
YEAH!! Can't wait to see it attached to the cab!! :)
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Very cool that it's a dutch product. Are there any other besides the philips monitors?
Well the Philips is a total rarity of course. And although Suzo produced lots of arcade related stuff, this is the very first time I see one of them used in an original classic game.
Since the vas majority of game makers then were from the US and Japan, they al had the tendency to use their own products or at least from their own country. Sometimes a mistake, as the Suzo's are one of the best joysticks around. But you can't fault joysticks like for Galaxian or the Pac games either.
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Deal.
I'm gonna order the magical product via amazon UK and have it shipped to my mother in law's place in Oxford.
She should be visiting us in Belgium around November.
A: waiting that long is still OK for you?
B: who wants a bottle? it's £8.25 + shipping.
I can order and dispatch it later in November.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Remover-Debonder-4FL-118ml/dp/B001CL6Q8G (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adhesive-Remover-Debonder-4FL-118ml/dp/B001CL6Q8G)
Is un-du the same as adhesive glue remover? In Holland we have 'stickerverwijderaar' (sticker remover), available at drugstores like the ETOS, DA etc. I used it a lot, it's great to work with.
HG also has a sticker remover product.
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Yes I was curious to try that particular brand (Un-du) because it is supposed to be non damaging to the sticker, not leave a greasy stain and supposedly it also allows you to reuse the removed sticker... more when I'll receive the stuff ;)
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Watch the videos and if they are true you see that this is not comparable to regular sticker remover.
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(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/~chrischris/arcade/un-du_believe.jpg)
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Yes I was curious to try that particular brand (Un-du) because it is supposed to be non damaging to the sticker, not leave a greasy stain and supposedly it also allows you to reuse the removed sticker... more when I'll receive the stuff ;)
Can you clean a sticker of sticker-rot?
I have this Qbert coming in:
(http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/a/a4/QBert_ParkerBros_Tabletop.jpg/250px-QBert_ParkerBros_Tabletop.jpg)
The stickers on these ones are often having freckles underneath.
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I have received "the product" (I sound like Mr White in Breaking Bad) and will dispatch it next week to the people who ordered it from me.
I haven't tested it myself yet.
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/~chrischris/arcade/Photo%20323.jpg)
Skeletor is just on the picture so you get an idea of the size of the bottle, of course I don't play with these kind of toys anymore,
I'm a grown up now.
Now enough derailing for Andre's Q*bert thread with that Un-Du thing...
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Never mind that, we want some test video ! ;D ;D
PS no idea how big or small that Skeletor fellow is.... never had toys like that, Im a woozy.
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I can't believe it:
I just won a Q*bert PCB on e-bay and it will cost me about 90 euro incl. shipping from the US !!!!!!
OK, it's untested,it maybe defective and I need more boards but hey, this is step 1 ;)
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I can't believe it:
I just won a Q*bert PCB on e-bay and it will cost me about 90 euro incl. shipping from the US !!!!!!
OK, it's untested,it maybe defective and I need more boards but hey, this is step 1 ;)
Excellent! Thats cheap! And im sure with your skills (thinking of thr blasted Berzerk boards) you will get it up and running!! :spaceace:
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Mehhh, I just cheated on Berzerk, swapping out boards, anybody can do that :)
But I do have some new tools to fight wounded PCBs ;) So maybe I can even fix some :)
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cool, congratulations... one step closer..
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Yes I was curious to try that particular brand (Un-du) because it is supposed to be non damaging to the sticker, not leave a greasy stain and supposedly it also allows you to reuse the removed sticker... more when I'll receive the stuff ;)
Can you clean a sticker of sticker-rot?
I have this Qbert coming in:
(http://media.strategywiki.org/images/thumb/a/a4/QBert_ParkerBros_Tabletop.jpg/250px-QBert_ParkerBros_Tabletop.jpg)
The stickers on these ones are often having freckles underneath.
Unfortunately... no. The "freckles" you see are the adhesive breaking down due the plastic on the Q*Bert's case.. it has a texture to it, so the sticker never made a good bond.. and as the air got in over the years the glue broke down and molded from behind. All of them are like this.. So is mine.. :'(
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Your Qbert pcb is fixed :D
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:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Robin you are the king of PCB repair ;)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/JaUjaiy.gif)
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yeah..... this means a lot to Andre I think :spaceace: :spaceace:
you wizard
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:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
So, next Eurocade we will have this memorable game in original condition!!
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YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH. !!!!! :spaceace: :spaceace:
Wooooohoooooooo, Yesyesyesyes !!!!!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
I think that was the game I missed the most last weekend so this is awesome news !!!
Much work on it ?
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Looks like you burnt some new EPROMs ?
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yes 2 new eproms and a couple broken tracks
and cleaning all the legs of eproms and ram's
And 1 broken leg from a ram chip
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Should we expect an update?
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PSU PCB and board interconnect harness are in Holland but not at my home yet....
First step will be testing the soundboard.
Don't expect too much though, first still have to finish Ms.Pac
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Not entirely related but still.......niceeeeeeee:
(http://jrok.com/xfer/msf/mylv1_1.jpg)
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so, it is coming a long a bit more?
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Nah.....just copy and pasted this picture from the KLOV thread about Jrok's Mylstar board. I was first waiting on this board for my machine but I now have an original board set. The main PCB works, the sound-board not tested yet....
I am currently battling with the Ms.Pac coin door...more on that later. As soon as the Ms. is finished, Q*bert is next up...
I overheard some bad gossip about my Q*bert at RGE.....the bad thing about it it is all true.... :oops: :oops: :oops:
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I overheard some bad gossip about my Q*bert at RGE.....the bad thing about it it is all true.... :oops: :oops: :oops:
and with that you make me curious now... ;D
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(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/meeting/eurocade_2011/Eurocade_123.jpg)
List of required parts:
- Control Panel [GOT IT] (thanks to Bruno !)
- joystick and harness + button holders [GOT IT] (Thanks to Peter on KLOV)
- buttons [GOT IT]
- CPO set [GOT IT]
- side art [GOT IT]
- Bezel [GOT IT]
- Marquee [GOT IT] [The "Swearing" version from Phoenixarcade)
- monitor [GOT IT] (Brand new WG waiting NOS in box !]
- harness [GOT IT, main harness still in cab but is hacked, have interboard harness]
- PCB [GOT IT, fixed by Robin !]
- sound PCB [GOT IT, untested]
- knocker [GOT IT]
- PSU board [GOT IT]
- (optional) Gottlieb insert for coin door (but not going to pay 40 bucks for it)
- yellow paint [totally thinking about dragging my Q*bert to the DIY store, DarthNuno style, OR ask if DarthNuno still has the code]
- PSU [GOT IT, untested]
- new TL tube (missing) [and again we go to the DIY store....I should have bought a box of tubes a long time ago ;)]
- new starter (missing) [GOT IT]
Do I dare to revive this ancient thread ? This beautiful cabinet was given to me by two of most wonderful friends I have in this hobby in september 2011 and it has been (patiently?) been waiting in the far corner of my gameroom for it's restoration.
Well my resolution for 2015 is restore this beauty to it's full glory WITHIN 2015 (let's be realistic ;))
I just saw on the checklist that I actually have about (all) parts already ! :)
I still need the paint though and sadly my beloved Verfkoning (paint-king) has gone bust (at least here in Rotterdam) so no more perfectly matched CHEAP paint for me :(
I actually am looking forward to doing this, compared to the Ms.Pac I hope painting and installing the stickers will be "a breeze" ;)
Also, the cab is already empty which will make starting working on it easier :)
The biggest challenge for this cab is the harness. There is a partial harness (hacked) still inside and I have the inter-board harness but I'm not sure I can simply connect both and be up and running. That will be a lot of checking to do.
When that's done I can check if the voice/sound board works, which is the other big unknown factor.
Preps will be starting.....Tomorrow !!! (unless I have to work, I'm on on-call duty until saturday....)
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Bruno, do you happen to still know the paint ode for Q*bert yellow ?
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Bruno, do you happen to still know the paint ode for Q*bert yellow ?
Yep, I still have pictures...
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum3/qbert-ref2.jpg)
...but here's the only one where we can still read the ref 8) :arrow:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/forforum3/qbert-ref.jpg)
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Great, thanks !!!
Do you also still have the can and do you want to keep it ? else I could buy it from you :)
That would mean picking it up at your home I guess ;);););)
I'll see if I can get Dulux here....it's not a really big brand here AFAIK.
Which reminds me I still have a can of red paint.......mmmm, maybe I should paint two cabs at a time....
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Which reminds me I still have a can of red paint.......mmmm, maybe I should paint two cabs at a time....
do the donkey kong!!! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNtmR4EHQ14)
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Heh....maybe the paint job ;) But that would require completely dismantling the Mario Bros......and that is playable now....so sorry Ully, I'll stick with the Q*bert for now.
Here it is right now:
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Been doing a bit of research....i didnt know how the monitor was mounted in a Q*bert and it turns out they used a vertical framed monitor. (I opened a WTB about it here https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=6067.0 )
I actually don't even recall seeing a vertical framed monitor ever so they are pretty rare.....and I have little hope to find one.
SO......plan B is needed. plan B is to get a piece of multiplex, cut in a hole for the front it the tube and hang it in there and then install that multiplex board using some supports like these:
(http://www.webwinkelicono.nl/product_images/imported_images/plankdrager_zwaar_verz(1).jpg)
Maybe I could even hang the monitor directly on these supports somehow.....anyone ever tried this ?
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I have not, but i know the ones on the pic are very strong, and i might have a few of them around in my shed that i dont use..
so if i have them (will check later) i would like to donate those if you are interested.
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I just freaking love this forum !!! And Etienne too.... ;D
I think the one's I'll need are about 50cm on the long (carrying) edge. I saw some specs and a set is supposed to be able to carry 110 kG. So that's plenty for a monitor.
Remember removing the planks in the rehearsal room for Eurocade Etienne ? those are supported with the same one's IIRC.
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I am also going to need a shroud (or plastic bezel) around the monitor screen.... no idea if a general one would work.
Anyone got anything around ?
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/qbert/qbert_nr9.jpg)
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And so....it begins !
Let's mount those microswitches back and reconnect some of the loose wires. Have to think hard with those one because of the diagonal directions ;);)
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I even had to get the panel out to get the directions right because you have to know which way the stick is slanted :)
It's done, but I don't like the soldered wires. I think I'll crimp AMP connectors on the harness and clean the solder off off the switches as good as possible. This is more neat and makes it easy to replace a switch if needed.
I'll also need 4 nuts to mount the stick to the CP threads....I bet they're not metric though.....
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Damn....damn.....damn......why is this original CPO still in such nice shape ?
Yeah it's a bit schmootzy but after a magic eraser treatment Im sure it will look quite nice.....
I HATE IT !
Why ? Because I have a minty fresh repro here and I want to install it but it is hurtful to ruin original stuff if it's still in such good condition......
Why doesn't it have scratches all over or cigarettes burn......:( ;)
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Leave it there, sell the repro. simple.
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Mmmm....just tried cleaning it. There's more damage to it than that picture shows and the dirt doesn't really seem to get out ...I guess because of the structure of the vinyl......
Well I'll think a bit about it. Still need to sand and repaint the underside though.
I also found the nuts....I had been tumbling them before and they are nice and shiny :D
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Let's find back all the parts...
Main PCB, Check
Sound PCB, Check (but untested)
Interboard harness, Check
PSU board ??
Filter board ??
The PSU and filter board are in storage at my friend's place I'm sure.
That harness has one small connector missing. From other pics I can see it's a molex one, looks a lot like old FDD/HD drive power connector....but it isn't.
This one has a pointed end on one side only. Not sure if a FDD connector would actually fit, I'll try it when I retrieved the board.
Looks like this:
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Let's hook some stuff up just to see how it goes...well that's straightforward enough.
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Missing connector P1....guess someone really needed one badly..... :roll:
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Inspected the harness. All connectors look good except for two.
A8-J1 has a clear "heat mark". Sadly this is not a regular molex connector like all the other one's are. I am the lucky owner of a molex tool and a lot of connectors (although not all sizes used on Q*bert).....this one is different, it has squire pins by the looks of it....will need to investigate and replace those pins
A3-J4 has pins that look bad. Guess they've been handling a lot of current too.
It's a 16 pin connector which I don't have, but the good thing about these molex connectors is that you can easily use 2 8 pin connectors instead. You can't hook them up to each other but 2x8 take exactly the same physical space as 1 16 pin.
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Yes.....much beter....
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Oops made one mistake....the ground wire needs an extra wire for the P2 button.
Fixed:
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I love macro pictures. They show stuff you can't see with the bare eye.
Here two pics I made of the molex connectors on the harness. The first one is the one I could already see to be bad with the bare eye. However, the second looked OK.....but the picture tells a different story....
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2nd picture:
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The 2nd connector pins look really OK with the bare eye, nice and shiny but you can clearly see there are plenty of "rust" spots on them....
I'll remove one or two pins to have a look on them and make some macro pictures too.
Here's a picture where one of the pins clearly has been heating up a lot:
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It's great to save stuff....although I'm sure it wouldn't harm to keep using the original connector (but replace the pins of course !!!) I did find exactly the right one in my boxes of spare parts. Used but in fine condition...
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Now I need some of these pins....
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I ended up buying them (+ some connectors) from parts4pinball but on the DLF topic Laszo mentioned that they are available from Conrad.
https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5645.0 (https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5645.0)
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Don't forget to re place the pins on the board otherwise you will have to replace the connectors again.
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Oh no.....really ?? Aaarggghhh
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Or clean them with waterproof sandpaper, but i guess replacing is faster / better :D
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How about this ?
(http://www.nonentity.com/New/Images/Projects/ANHObiFX/017.jpg)
(Dremel wire brush)
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Removed the pin that showed the burn spot. The pin actually looks fine !
But the connector didn't seem to like the heat.....look on the inside, nice burn-spot !
By the way, these are not the one's with the extra "sides" on the pin (trifurcon) so they can carry less amps. I will sure replace them with the trifurcon one's !
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I made a video of replacing the Molex connector, will upload it tomorrow.
Tested the caps on the soundboard, all OK, but the two on the main PCB.....WAY too high ESR value for this cap !
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So quickly replaced it with a good quality 105 degr. one...Gottlieb was nice and made several solder islands for C25....however for the same cap at C27 they didn't....o wel...just some legs visible...I don't mind.
....and let's measure again. Yes that's better !
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Great progress, André :)
BUT IMHO it would be a shame to remove an original CPO in such a great shape :-\
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Maybe someone with a poor condition overlay would swap the whole panel over with you, then you could use the new one and the original one would also be saved. It does look too nice to destroy.
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Yeah that idea crossed my mind too and I wouldn't mind that. But I haven't decided yet. As always (small) pictures on a screen make it look better than it really is, I'll take some close-up shots if I have some time.
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In the mean time.....let's have a look at the cab....
The top....needs some good cleaning at least...maybe new vinyl or paint....don't know what it is yet :)
In the red you see that the power switch is "missing". In reality the underside of the switch is still there but it is defective. (same switch as on my Ms.Pac).
On the second pic in the red oval you see how they "bridged" the power switch profesionally.....
You also see how they professionally hacked in a Jamma connector....
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Nice....almost all the original PCB supports are still there.......patiently waiting to hold some original boards again !
Another nice shot of the wonderful cabling....:D
I actually like this shit, because it feels so thankful when you remove it and restore it :)
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Another thing that I'll remove ASAP....a switching power supply. If it works, it's nice to add to the stack ;)
Not much bad stuff here.....you see where the monitor needs to be mounted on the right side.
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So how do you connect the mains to the Switcher ? Of course...like this..... :roll:
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1)THANKFULLY, they left the original PSU inside !!!
Would have cost a ton to have it shipped from the US if needed.....(think I would have gone "switcher" way in that case..)
2) PFewwwwwwhhh, where do I begin ?
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1) Thankfully also, in a lot of cases they were very lazy and simply made Y-taps on the original harness.....that is in fact good news for me !
2) More hacking done on the original PSU.....why on earth would you bother to actually put the replacement fuse holder on it's original position on the PSU frame. That would mean unscrewing the entire PSU...."hah, we don't have time for that !"
And look at those soldering skills.......argh.
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1) Original mains plug still there. No use here and also...it looks very bad.
2) Mmmmm.........that looks very safe in the mains wire !
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More details of the hacks....and yet....most of the original connectors are still there !
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1) Here's one missing clearly. Turns out these are the CP contacts.....they had "extended" them to the JAMMA connector.
2) OK.......I understand the hacks......but I don't understand this....why just cut this ??
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Nice to see so much love going into this cab. Great you take the time to let us enjoy your progress.
Maybe I' m strange but I often wonder seeing these hacks.... What kind of person works that way and is it saying anything about him ..... Somebody should get a PhD on that :lol: :'(
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It's simple. Operators don't have money for good techs. So some half-assed tech hacks around and delivers something that works very quickly. Well kinda works ;)
However.....this may all look and sound bad, but it actually is not that bad at all.....I'm really happy as I can easily rescue the harness and all the rest.
The PSU is 100% 115VAC however and I'll have to use a step-down (inside of course).
All on all, I'm pretty exited....it's better than I expected !
More tomorrow !
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It Always amaze me when i see that, but i agree with you, its easier to fix it like this instead of when they cutt off all connectors and throw them in the bin.
Its all there exept for the CP connector.
You have the Alu serial decal AFAIK since Januari 2012 ;D
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The most satisfying jobs are the ones where you "just" have to undo the shitty jobs of your predecessor (or do them properly), it's much less work than to replace missing parts or repair damaged parts. Especially missing wiring can be hell on earth. :)
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The PSU is 100% 115VAC however and I'll have to use a step-down (inside of course).
i was trying to convert the powersupply of my qbert to 230 volts primary... however it did not work...
according to the schematics there are 2 coils 115v each connected on _each end_ in the original 115v vac version... (see pic 1)
my thinking was to connect the two coils on one end (like on atari-transformers with the power-plug) and feed on 230vac on the 2 remaining ends...
after unsoldering the connections of the two coils on the transformer (they are well marked) i checked if they are really seperated coils in the transformer... and yes---they are.
soldered the wires like in pic 2
giving 230vac blew the fuse of my room (not the f1 in the schematics?)
maybe somebody here knows where the error in my thinking is?
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Mmmm, good thinking !
My guess is that the common is maybe connected to the ground in some way through the mains filter.....so you'd short one side of the 230Vac to ground :)
[Edit].......mmmm....Nahh....that can't be it right ?
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Did you still have anything hooked up to the secondary side of the transformer while you tried that ?
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The PSU is 100% 115VAC however and I'll have to use a step-down (inside of course).
i was trying to convert the powersupply of my qbert to 230 volts primary... however it did not work...
according to the schematics there are 2 coils 115v each connected on _each end_ in the original 115v vac version... (see pic 1)
my thinking was to connect the two coils on one end (like on atari-transformers with the power-plug) and feed on 230vac on the 2 remaining ends...
after unsoldering the connections of the two coils on the transformer (they are well marked) i checked if they are really seperated coils in the transformer... and yes---they are.
soldered the wires like in pic 2
giving 230vac blew the fuse of my room (not the f1 in the schematics?)
maybe somebody here knows where the error in my thinking is?
Swap the connection of one of the 115VAC coils.
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i checked if the coils are connected to ground and they are not...
i unplugged the secondary line on the J5/P5 and J1/P1..
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Swap the connection of one of the 115VAC coils.
ahh..yes...that what i was just thinking of.... (the prob is the documention only marks one coil)
thanks i will try that the next days....
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The PSU is 100% 115VAC however and I'll have to use a step-down (inside of course).
i was trying to convert the powersupply of my qbert to 230 volts primary... however it did not work...
according to the schematics there are 2 coils 115v each connected on _each end_ in the original 115v vac version... (see pic 1)
my thinking was to connect the two coils on one end (like on atari-transformers with the power-plug) and feed on 230vac on the 2 remaining ends...
after unsoldering the connections of the two coils on the transformer (they are well marked) i checked if they are really seperated coils in the transformer... and yes---they are.
soldered the wires like in pic 2
giving 230vac blew the fuse of my room (not the f1 in the schematics?)
maybe somebody here knows where the error in my thinking is?
Swap the connection of one of the 115VAC coils.
Ok I'm puzzled.....if you hooked it up like your second picture and you'd swap one of those connections wouldn't you put 230VAc on the 115Vac coils ?
Thankfully I have to do many other things on the PSU (check diode bridges, fuses, fuse holders, huge cap :) ) before I can try it so I am afraid I will have to await your results first ;););););););););) :D
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B.T.W, thanks For tuning in Andreas :)
While we are here with some great technicians ......some of the guys on the KLOV Forum seem to be allergic for the IDC connectors like used on the Q*bert harness. (An the one's I pictured).
Now, I can understand these things may not be the best idea in the top-box of a pinball machine that vibrates and shakes all the time but in a video game ?
Would I really need to replace them with regular crimp connectors ? I might be doing that for the connector that carries the voltages but the others ??
I remember these same connectors were in my Judge Dredd and it never showed issues because of those connectors.
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Some people bitch about everything, ofcourse there are better connectors out there, but if crimped good and they work, why replace them.
you can Always change them if they give you a hard time.
i would first just test the stuff that is there.
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Agreed !
We used those connectors when I worked with ADT (my first job) for Alarm systems. The tool I had "punched" 4 wires at once because we only used that connector AFAIR.
The only times there were trouble with these connectors when you could see people didn't make the connections properly (read, they used a fucking screwdriver to push the wires in !!!).
Also....you should NOT pull on the wires to get the connector off the pins....
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okay...i tried and it worked...
on original 115v, the line1 is connected to 115(A) and line2 is connected to common(B) - both bridged to the second coil 115(A->D) and common(B->C)
here is how to change for 230v
(see pic)
remove bridge (A)->(D)
remove bridge (B)->(C)
line1 stays on (A)
remove line2 (B)
Solder a wire from (B) to (D)
Solder line2 to (C)
:-)
my thanks going to speleo!
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EXCELLENT, and right on time, just finished disassembly/cleaning/assembly of the power brick ?
Thanks !!!!! Really like it that I don't have to use an extra transformer :)
Now don't forget to change F1 to 2A instead of 4A :)
Question: The schematics say fuse F4 is 10A, is that correct ?
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10 ampere is correct
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Thanks !!!
So here's the Power Brick right out of the cab...of course dirty and a bit corroded.
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It's complete and in original shape except for one fuse holder.
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They weren't kidding around with the filter cap at Gottlieb....compared to this giant of 50000uF it makes Atari's 27000uF "Big Blue" look like a dwarf....
The brand is Sprague, a very old and high quality capacitor brand. I believe it's now part of Vishay but I'm sure the quality isn't what it used to be.
My Seeburg jukebox is full of Sprague and Siemens caps. It's from 1971 and I've tested each and every cap in there and ALL are still in excellent condition.
So I wouldn't be surprised if this is still OK too :)
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I know that the Russian ESR tester that I've got is one of the few of this type of tester that can handle these big-ass caps but I thought this might be even too big for it....
However...this looks damn fine to me !!!
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OK let's disassemble it....
....why does the underside of those power brick always look like new......?
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Everything off.....well almost. Good enough for me. And I wanted the labels to stay on....
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I sanded the metal as good as I could. Nice and shiny, really rusty spots gone. I don't want to paint this. It does not look brand new but it looks nice.
Cleaned the rest. Checked the fuse holders and fuses. I think I'll be replacing two fuse holders but don't have them right here now.
Of course there were some wrong fuse values. Don't have all correct values on hand so I'll have to replace them later on.
-
...
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Of course, I removed the bad fuse holder that they already replaced and mounted the new one they used on the metal.
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Of course I had to do the 230VAC hack :)
Original situation:
-
New situation:
-
One more important thing to do:
-
....and while we're at it.....
Oh....forgot to put one on F1 that it's 2A now instead of 4A.....will fix that.
Anyway, it is ready now for the smoke test.....
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Nice work !
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Thanks Etienne !
Let's do the smoke test !
OK, let's make some good (final !) use of that old power cable and plug....US plug so I use one of the el-cheapo adapters I have around....
On the other side I quickly crimped some pins. Needed also a bridge for the power switch connections (the red wire)......
DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME KIDS ;) ;) ;)
Quick and dirty, just for one-time testing :)
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And happy happy me......ALL voltages check out perfectly !
Let's do the second "big blue" test, measure the AC ripple across the big cap:
0.002 Volts.....that's pretty incredible....
Yes.....this baby is just in PERFECT condition !!!
Now I have to dig up the filter and power boards !
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Nice work andré, and nice 230V hack, I can even do that later on on my Qbert power brick. BTW, working on your post count? ;) :)
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LOL....no man, the picture size limit is causing this....and I don't want to store the pics anywhere else anymore.
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Aha, you are now storing them on the DLF server?
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Yep !
Harnesses. The top one is the "inter PCB connect" one. Still missing one connector. The bottom one is the "main" harness. There is a third one still in the cab, the "power" harness I guess.
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Gottlieb neatly labeled the connectors so.....and since I have no keys (yet!) in the connectors I clearly indicated the pin numbers too....
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Gotta loveeeeeee those hack jobs sometimes........
Remember this ?
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9109;image)
.....wanted to fix that and when I removed the clumsy isolation tape I discovered that they didn't even bother to actually SOLDER the wires.....so I unwound the hacked in wires and was left with this....
Not a single strand was damaged so I decided to isolate them again with some neatly installed insulation tape. No need to cut and solder etc. LOL.
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Wow. Somebody went to a lot of effort to splice that together. That looks so much harder than cutting the wire and doing a 'T' tap
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Interesting.....I couldn't remove the "power" harness becauseI couldn't reach the connector going to the fluorescent light.
Turns out that there are two latches on the speaker panel in the top. Those latches are like the one's you see on control panels.
When you open the latches you can remove the speaker panel completely. This also made it possible to remove the power switch bracket and the vent cover.
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9090;image)
Of course it looks a bit "old". Looks like maybe some fluid has been spilt over it, in anyway there's some dirt/aluminum rust on it.
However, when I removed it, there was a little surprise.....
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The surprise was that on the INSIDE there is another one of those vent covers......and it looks like spanking new because it is installed upside down ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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OK, there's always a catch, right ?
There is. The one on the inside is of thinner aluminum than the one on the outside. This is of course because of possible abuse.
Not much chance on that anymore, so I'm definitely going to switch them !!! In fact, I might "forget" about the one on the inside just as well to improve airflow.........not sure yet.
So, here's the power switch bracket. The top of the switch is gone and there were no wires attached anymore (these are twisted together and actually covered with a neat "lasdopje"....I have no idea what the word is in English :) )
It's a switch just like used on my Ms.Pac Man....guess they're not that sturdy. However....if you look at the bracket from the side you can see that some weirdo's have been smacking it with some good force.........WHY !?!?!? I wonder....
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While we're removing stuff....here's another grill.....
No it's not the speaker grill but that of the air inlet at the lower bottom...
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So, here's the power switch bracket. The top of the switch is gone and there were no wires attached anymore (these are twisted together and actually covered with a neat "lasdopje"....I have no idea what the word is in English :) )
I Always wondered myself too, i though there must be some fancy word for it, guess not... :D
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So, here's the power switch bracket. The top of the switch is gone and there were no wires attached anymore (these are twisted together and actually covered with a neat "lasdopje"....I have no idea what the word is in English :) )
I Always wondered myself too, i though there must be some fancy word for it, guess not... :D
If you put up a photo of these 'lasdopje' I can give you the exact name if you like
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Here is one:
(http://www.krispo.nl//Uploaded_files/Zelf/Lasdoppen1340283534.jpg)
The picture name says "wire nuts".
It's the smallest on that picture. When I went to school we still got taught with those old fashioned one's for 230V mains installations......they were a PITA, had to twist the solid core wires and then cover them with one of those wire nuts.....if that is the right word :)
However, in those days there were already these: (http://www.stroomenledwinkel.nl/contents/media/t_lasdoppen.jpg)
Today there are these, which are superior for sure....
(http://www.elektronicawereld.nl/productimages/32183.jpg)
They can be dangerous though....the spring tension is so high that if you snap down one of the latches with your fingers in the wrong position you will get a nasty pinch from them......but you quickly learn not to do that this way ;)
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Yep. I'm pretty sure they're wire nuts. You're right though. They suck. I have seen those clip ones (Orange lever) but more commonly used are the 'BP Connectors' due to their cheapness. (The side bit is a screw)
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Never saw those here, then again, I'm not into mains home wiring.... :)
OK some random shots I took last evening...
This is stapled on the bottom of the cab...handy ! However F1 is now 2A because of the 230VAC conversion :)
The second pic shows the inside air vent cover and power switch bracket still in place...
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Random side-art shot....I am actually glad they are much busted on both sides....doesn't give me any doubt about replacing them :)
O pulled off a bit on the other side and was able to actually get a fair amount off without any tools or stuff. The yellow paint there is of course (more or less) the original color......I feel a trip to the DIY store "Bruno-style" coming up !!!!
Q*berts are infamous for their wood.....they often swell. However I think the back door is really pretty thick originally already...
You can see some of the typical "wear and tear"....
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So how thick is it ? pretty thick.....
Second pic, yup gotta fix those corners....
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....all corners....
I'm going to need some wood-hardener.....the stuff Ully uses looks good ! No idea what I can get here....
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BUT.......the panels themselves are actually in good condition, they're not much wider than the T-molding :)
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Here's all the shit that I cut away from the poor patient........ Oh well the swicher may still be working....it _was_ set to 230VAC so the cab obviously _has_ been running in Europe.
By the way, Dirk/Thorsten, that switcher is yours of course ;D ;D
The wires may still be handy for patch work.....or the copper basket...
Second pic shows the "power" harness. Bad part of the mains cable cut away, but I'll replace that with a European plug/cord. Don't like those weird single insulation US mains cables....not even sure they can handle 230VAC ;)
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Here's another cool part I won't be needing anymore.....I guess there was some awesome lock-bar over the coin door.....with good reason though....of course this coin door has burglar damage too.....I think I haven't seen one coin door in any of my machines without any burglar (attempt) damage....
Oh well, it's nice and heavy, into the "old metal basket" it goes...
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Now, since I was removing the last piece of harness I wondered where the "aux" panel was....I didn't see it. To my surprise however, I felt that there was still a coin-bucket inside the box !
Mmm, let's get it out, maybe it has some nice surprises....
Wahooooo, yes look what's in there :)
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The "aux" panel is there. OK someone removed the volume pot but that won't be a big problem to find a suitable one (I hope).
But there is also a knocker in there !
Now....to be totally honest.......I _know_ that I bought an original Q*bert knocker like AGES ago, with (then) the plan to add it to my MAME cab (Woehahahaha ;))
So I know I have one, but I'm not sure if that is this one. Maybe I put it in the bucket before.....I really don't remember !!!
I usually do store parts in/on the cab so "they don't get lost"....
OR......this is the original knocker which was removed when they converted the cab......I probably only will know for sure if/when I find the other knocker ;)
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OK. So we know this game was converted at some point in time.
I know....we all hate conversions right ? But then again.....those conversions saved MANY MANY original cabs that else would probably have been demolished.....
SO usually I don't feel very strong about conversions..........but then......I turned the coin-bucket around and saw.........:
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And suddenly the machine felt "dirty"......I mean......this Q*bert....this poor poor Q*bert got converted to one of the games I absolutely loathe.....
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121106155754/qbert/images/5/55/Qbert.jpg)
Yes buddy, it's sad....but don't dispair !
SO I will be cleaning this cab like nuts !!! ;)
(I swear, even if I have to spray-paint that bucket, that eye-sore _IS_ somehow going to go.....)
On the other side.....this gives me even MORE spirit and motivation to do a great and fast (well relatively) restore on this baby !!! :)
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Nice progress !
by the way..
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9208;image)
plate or sticker ? dimentions ? ;) ::)
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LOL..... I guess there are more for you ;)
Looks like a cardboard/paper. I'll measure when I measure that other stuff in a short while... :)
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Hey Andre, I just had a quick look at the stats and you have surpassed Bruno in the post counts by almost 1000 posts ;D
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LOL, not sure If i actually should Be proud of that..... ;)
Wasting my fucking life here and nobody gives a shit about Q*bert ;)
O well....I enjoy doing it so...
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Yesterday evening late/this morning early I decided to check the power section. I had picked up the PSU board from the storage before...however I couldn't find the filter board. In fact I doubted ever seeing one and after I checked my PMs on KLOV it became clear to me that I declined it. I was asked 40 dollars for a fucking board with some pins and louzy useless components and I couldn't jusity that (especially since I only had to pay 20 for the PSU board.....I still am amazed about that, same seller but I also got the PCB harness from him which was a bit heftier in price, but the combo was a good deal IMHO.
anywaaaaaaaaayyyyy, no filter board. I know why, I hate filter boards and usually remove them as soon as I see them. However you kinda NEED the filter board on Q*bert because they used female connectors on both sides 1:1. Well they are almost, but the key pin differs and following that also the pins.....
So there are two solutions:
1) buy filter board.
2) get rid of the filter boards and the plugs and wire all the shit together.
The longer I think about it, the more I lean to doing option 2). OK, it's a lot of work, may not be original and look not so neat.....but I'd remove a whole range of sources for trouble.....all the connectors on both sides and the pins on the board.....
Annnnnyyyyway.....I still wanted to test the PSU board.
I checked all the main important parts, diodes, big important resistors, of course ESR testing the caps everything was just FINE, even the scorched looking resistors.
So I hooked up the power brick, installed the power harness and hooked up the PCB Harness to the PSU board.
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Now of course I had to "bridge" the connectors somehow. I decide to use some wire pieces. Per voltage I only had to use 2 or 3 wires so that would work.
While figuring all these connectors out I noticed that one connector still had 1 small piece of wire attached....it was near where I had soldered two same colored wires together. I already found it a bit weird that both wires were coming from the same direction in the harness so, following the wires, comparing with the schematics and measuring them I found out that the definitely did not belong together. I fixed it all, one new connector needed and I had to extend the wires a bit. Glad I found that before hooking stuff up !
So...
I tested each and every voltage and low and behold....they are all just FINE !!!! :)
That doesn't mean I'm happy with the PSU board though. I noticed that I could wiggle the big caps (they are Sprague brand again) a little bit and it looked like they unsoldered themselves a little bit because of the heat around,maybe I don't know for sure. At least I reflowed these solderings and no more wiggling.
Also, this board is no different from any other Q*bert PSU board....it has bad burn marks from the over-heating and poorly designed 30V section.
I've done a bit (actually quite a bit) of investigation about this.
The thing is, that according to the schematics, what needs to be done is lower the +48VDC that is coming out of the rectifier bridge into 30VDC for the sound board and knocker. So....they are trying to "get rid of" 18 VDC. Imagine having a 18VDC power supply and "getting rid" of it's entire voltage somehow......mmmm....
They chose the laziest way, a big fat transistor and a zener diode of 30V. The results are pretty fucked up. Not only is the output higher than 30V (about 33,6V as I measured) but also ......lowering such a big amount of volts in this "dumb" way means producing a lot of heat.
Initially I though that the heat was cause by the knocker/sound board drawing a lot of amperes, but the manual says the 30VDC section is designed for just 1,5Amps....which is not that crazy (compare, a regular 7812 can pump out 1A with proper heat-sinking).
Also, EVEN when I had hooked up only the power-brick and PSU board .....and nothing else....so no load.....the resistors and zener diode get CRAZY hot.
So now I'm thinking of a mod to improve this. I hope to come up with a simple solution that at least will not produce so much heat when there is no load at all....
I know people have experimented with 27V and even 24V zener diodes but that doesn't solve the problem at all, in fact it may make it worse as the required voltage drop with those is now 21 or even 24V (half of the original voltage !!!) so the produced heat would INCREASE. The reason they tried these zener diodes is that the voltage of 33,6V is often blamed for destroying the audio amplifier (LM379) on the sound board. These amps are EXPENSIVE to get these days...
The absolute maximum power voltage for the LM379 is 35V, so this is very near it's maximum.
I'm actually not that sure that this voltage is causing the amps to die....since the knocker is also powered by the 30VDC, I wonder what "shock waves" are going on in this voltage when the knocker gets fired (and especially AFTER it gets fired).
I think my new oscilloscope is going to be handy to have a look at what's going on with this.
Especially when people have a knocker without the damping diode (or a defective one) there will be some nice peaks in this voltage I'm sure.....
Also still have to measure how much amps the sound board uses (haven't hooked it up yet)...
OK if you've read my last two posts entirely you deserve a :spaceace:
If you also understand what I'm babbling about you deserve :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Cool, i just earned 4 x :spaceace: ;D
Its a interesting read, thanks for the detailled info man !
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+1!
Love all the details and explanations, the 4x :spaceace: should go to you!
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I love detailed threads like this, it means that if I ever come across an arcade machine I know what I'm doing :)
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Great, that's one of the reasons I write this stuff.....and also for my own future reference ;)
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Been thinking about "solving" the heat issue on the power board.
So we have to "get rid" of at least 18Volts of energy.....that's a lot really !
The solution IMHO should have some important aspects:
- must work without problems
- solve the heat issue
- be cheap
- use as few (extra) components as can be
- the less mods on the board the better
The first thing I thought about was using a voltage regulator instead of the zener diode.
This would be possible, here's an example schematic:
(http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/img/lm317.gif)
HOWEVER, the problem with this is that whichever way you turn it, the whole thing _still_ needs to "get rid of" (offical word: dissipate) 18Volts....so the heat is going to exist anyway because the LM317 is a lineair voltage regulator....
The one thing I don't know is wether a set-up like this will heat up as crazy in unloaded condition...if not, this would be a good idea.
Then I googled a bit more, and found out that there are beefier versions of the LM317, like LM150 and LM350, which are basically the same but can provide currents up to 3 Amps.
The Q*bet manual claims that the 30VDC section is designed to deliver 1.5A so that would be more than sufficient.
The best thing is that the LM150/350 come in a TO-3 housing so......could I put that on the spot of the 2N3055 ??
Well yes I could, but I'd have to mod the board/connections because the pins don't match (Vout is the case on the LM, but that's the Collector on the 2N3055, essentially I'd have to swap the case connections and one pin. I already thouhg of a clever and easy way to do that but.....read on)
OK, so if would really be pretty easy to do this mod, you'd have to remove the zener and put a pot there instead and bridge the input resitor. A second resistor would have to be put in between Vout and the reference voltage pin....could be done.
However, again , these are still linear regulators, and the amount of heat produced would still be the same ! The big advantage though, is that the heat will be pumped right into the heat-sink.....
I don't know how hot the heat-sink normally becomes, but seeing that the black is totally gone on my heatsink I guess it does get pretty hot.
The next idea I played around with was finding a cheap "buck" DC-DC switching converter and "hacking that in". It wouldn't look pretty, but it would GREATLY reduce the heat because switchers of course have efficieny of up to 95%....
So I searched and searched, but there don't seem to be any of these devices that AND can handle 2 Amps, AND can handle 50V input AND put out +30V......
Then I thought....why can't we take away the SOURCE of the problem, being the rather high 48VDC "source" voltage after the rectifier ?
Of course, I cannot change anything about the 35VAC coming out of the transformer (unless I'd use an extra transformer, but that's not the way I want to go)
Since the AC-DC conversion is done by the usual (and efficient) diode-bridge set-up (=full wave rectification) couldn't I go back to something basic and use only 1 diode do we'd get a half-wave rectifier.
Usually you don't want half-wave rectifiers because they waste half the energy, but that's about what we're after here :)
The problem with this idea however is that the ripple will be much higher with half-wave rectification and usually audio amps don't like that (or you can hear it).....
In my basic idea the voltage _would_ be (about) half of the 48V, so a nice 24V. This is definitly enough for the LM379 sound amp (minimum power voltage is 10V) and the knocker might be a little bit weaker but not much....
Now I wonder if the two filter caps of 2200 (in parallel, so 4400uF) would be enough filter for half-wave rectification.
I guess there's only one way to find out.....try it and give my oscilloscope some good use ;)
In the mean time, if wiser electronic buffs then me have any opinions about this, please chime in (after you stopped lauging about my stupid ideas ;))
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Woohoo, saturday 40% off on all color mixed paints at Karwei !!!!
and I'll be taking the cab Bruno style......
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OK.
Call me puzzled.
I went the half-wave rectifier way.
I removed diodes D21 and D24 (well, soldered them loose on their cathode side, which is the same thing)
I shorted D23 with a jumper wire. This hooks the - to the return of the transformer 35VAC line.
So only D22 would still do something (very important), rectifying only half-wave...at least I thought...
I first thought I might have to remove some of the regulating stuff but though it probably wouldn't matter.....so I switched it on, and luckily no smoke and a nice +30V LED on.
I measured the output and got a neat 30VDC. However, I had anticipated the "input" DC voltage across the filter caps to be about half of the normal 48V.
However, when I measured there I got.....47V !!!
I don't get it !
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In the mean time, I decided to forget about the filter board and hook up the harness straight together.
Easy but tedious work.
This is the result:
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That's 66 points of contact less that could possibly cause trouble....
There's still one more plug to do, but that's the cable to the monitor....gotta dig up the new one....
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Well while I was having the PSU board set up anyway I figured I could just as well also hook up the soundboard. Now it was very handy that the speaker panel can easily be removed from the cab. However, as mentioned the volume pot was missing so I had to hack a small pot.
The results were as follows:
http://youtu.be/THX53AnQoXo
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the suspense in that clip is killing! :D
nice one!
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Do you have the schematic?
OK.
Call me puzzled.
I went the half-wave rectifier way.
I removed diodes D21 and D24 (well, soldered them loose on their cathode side, which is the same thing)
I shorted D23 with a jumper wire. This hooks the - to the return of the transformer 35VAC line.
So only D22 would still do something (very important), rectifying only half-wave...at least I thought...
I first thought I might have to remove some of the regulating stuff but though it probably wouldn't matter.....so I switched it on, and luckily no smoke and a nice +30V LED on.
I measured the output and got a neat 30VDC. However, I had anticipated the "input" DC voltage across the filter caps to be about half of the normal 48V.
However, when I measured there I got.....47V !!!
I don't get it !
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Well while I was having the PSU board set up anyway I figured I could just as well also hook up the soundboard. Now it was very handy that the speaker panel can easily be removed from the cab. However, as mentioned the volume pot was missing so I had to hack a small pot.
The results were as follows:
http://youtu.be/THX53AnQoXo
you sure it is working? I could only make out Yessss and ..... Sounds good.... ;D
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nice, I clearly hear @!#?@!
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nice, I clearly hear @!#?@!
Aaaahhhh is it supposed to do that :P
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Turn up your hearing-aids old men because what it says is: "Hello, I'm turned on"
;D ;D ;D
And when I press the test button you hear a tone.
This doesn't guarantee the board is 100% though, there could still be things wrong. This board is a computer on its own with a 6502 and 6532. I should be able to trigger some more sounds by shorting some inputs but I haven't found out which yet....
The good news is that it at least does the basic things and that the voice synth chip and LM379 amp work OK.
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Here's the schematic Leo.
As mentioned, I removed diodes D21 and D24 (well, soldered them loose on their cathode side, which is the same thing) and I shorted D23 with a jumper wire.
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Here's the schematic Leo.
As mentioned, I removed diodes D21 and D24 (well, soldered them loose on their cathode side, which is the same thing) and I shorted D23 with a jumper wire.
You tied 35v ac to the logic ground. Your half bridge has been combined zenerdiode at D26 which is tied to the same ground. Together they form a bridge...... i think
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Good thinking....yes I can see The zener will be conducting in the negative puls of the AC from the transformer when there is a load connected, but even when I didn't have one connected it was still 47Vdc.....
In my thinking, D22 prevents any current from flowing in the negative pulse.....as long as there is no load.
Another thing.....I did have some second thoughts about hooking up the negative side of the tranformer to the ground....but it is the only way to create the half wave rectifier. The big problem is however, if that ground is also tight to the other grounds in the system, I'm also pumping negative pulses into f.i. the 5V circuit.
Gotta check the wiring and board connections etc......REALLY don't feel like blowing anything up on this precious Q*bert hardware....
There's a good chance that on the PSU board already the grounds are tied together and that would force me to "loosen up" all negative sides of the components. ......that may start to be too complicated for a simple hack...
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Oh......OF COURSE the other voltage supplies are also connected to the same ground......what was I thinking ??
In order to have it work the negative side of the entire 30V section would have to be floating (=not connected to any ground).
However the knocker is triggered by drawing a pin to ground (the plus side is fixed to the 30Vdc) and I guess the sound amp on the sound PCB is also hooked up to a common ground.
I think this is the end of the half wave rectifier idea....would be too much hacking.
In fact.....I wonder why nothing blew up on the soundboard while I tested it this way.....yikes !
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No more hacking for you today mister :P those powersupply parts can easily be changed for new.... Your soundboard and main mpu are not easy to repair when blown....
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keep it Original, mount the diode more far from the board and install a fan there. done ;D
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Mmmmm....dont want fans in Q*bert but we'll see.
Today I had planned to take the cab to the DIY store but when I woke up there was nice layer of snow.....and I really didn't want to drag the cab through that....also I was pretty limited in time because we had to compete in the Dutch championships with the drumband....and today was the only day with 40% off for the good quality brand paint.....
Sooooooo......I had a good look on a lot of Q*bert side pics and I maybe wrong but to me it looks like the yellow of the side-art is a total match to the yellow on the cab....
So I simply brought one of the side arts and removed the pre-mask a little bit.
The DIY store had a color scanner but only for their store brand....weird. However, I've seen color scanners fail and I've seen perfect matches done by the eye (Ms.Pac Blue !!) although I must say the scanner at Bruno's DIY store seems to be absolutely spot on....
Anyway,....lets do this....guy asks if I want water or oil (terpentine) based......duhhhh.......oil of course.
Color matched and mixed.....the guy at the counter said yellow is pretty tough to get a good cover and that he could also mix a primer in the same color.......well @-40% what the hell, let's do it.
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While we're there, let's ad a Dutch touch to the cab.....can't believe these are actually still being produced in this country.....can't last long.....already heard Philips now wants to sell off their lighting division and since they already sold the TV/Audio division, chip division and a number of others too I wonder what the heck Philips will be left with......o well....can't change it.
One tip for newbies......always get cool white tubes, not warm white, I made the mistake of thinking warm white would look better but in fact, it makes the colors of the marquee look muddy...
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Oh for those who wonder....and for what it's worth, it's Flexa f8.60.80
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Strak in de lak ! ;D
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I hope so Etienne !
Did some color matching. I am very happy. Compared to the CP (original) it looks spot on. Compared to the part that was uncovered from the side art sticker it looks to be a tad lighter yellow but on the eye it was spot on.
Maybe due to flash, I really don't have good light in the gameroom to compare.....but I'm happy.
The only thing...........I don't know why but I got gloss paint....thought the sides were pretty shiny on Q*berts but now I look at it again it looks more like satin......arrgh.....O well, can't return the stuff so we'll see how it works out.
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Do you guys think Q*bert approves ? ;)
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I have also reached a verdict over the original vs. repro CPO.
The repro CPO looks AMAZING...it is SO close I'd think it could be a NOS one....I can't see a fault in the colors, nor the appearance of the black areas nor the look of the material itself. The only "flaw" would be that some of the texts on the right side are a bit thinner, but that could easily be a screening issue on the original.
And.....see the macro shots I just took.....the black areas have a lot of scuffs and scratches.
Cigarette burns on the edges. There are more lighter one's....this picture also shows the "grubby" look of the yellow. I've tried about everything I could think of to get rid of it but it just sticks somehow...
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More grubby yellow....
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The front edge has cracking all along and one really bad spot.
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.....and so, the verdict stands..........it has to go.
I mean, if there wouldn't be repro's etc. I could have well lived with it but the repro's are top-notch AND there will be spanking new repro marquee, bezel and control panel front art installed so it wouldn't make sense to keep this one....
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And if the decision has been made, it's best to get the job done....so I took the heat gun and fired at will....
This was definitely not one of the hardest to remove CPO's.....it came of relatively easily.
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First pic: this is when you overheat the CPO (bubbles start).....the paint/CPO seems to bond to the glue....not good.
Second pic....everything gone..........bye-bye !
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I noticed there was a Q*bert still intact so I cut it out and gave it to my son....even though he's almost 13 now he said" yeaaaaaahhhhh Q*bert) and put it on his Mac mini's monitor :)
Also saved curly for him ;)
Gottlieb may not have been the most successful arcade videogame company, but they did have some attention to details....this is one, there are no visible bolts around the joystick. The studs are welded to the CP and nicely evened out. I love that. No bolts that peek through the CPO and it is also nice for your hands when playing...more companies should have taken this little extra time IMHO, especially Atari with Centipede's trackball.
Friend of mine actually did the same for my Puckman CP a number of years ago....
Second pic is the under side of the CP which shows some fluid spills and rust.
So that was the easy part.....now I have to get rid of that damn glue on the top of the CP somehow......
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Still looking for a Q*bert shroud.....or anything that matches.....
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Last sunday while I had out the heat gun I figured I'd get rid of the old side art too. It came off very easily. I noticed you really need to get a feeling for applying the right amount of heat. Too little and the decal will tear, to much and it will start to get weak so you can't pull it. Job was done quite quickly though.
And I removed the back door. This is a "new" for me in this hobby, removing actual hinges :D
The more I work on the Q*bert, the more I say I must appreciate Gottlieb's approach on building these cabs.
I like the door....it's a more comfortable solution then what Atari and Midway did IMHO. However Stern's idea with Berzerk-style cabs is still no.1 in my book.
Also, Gottlieb used METRIC bolts and nuts (except for the regular hex screws that hold small stuff), I am STOKED about that, it means I can go out to the DIY store around the corner and buy a couple of minty fresh one's and forget about the old one's instead of painfully having to restore them.
Edit.....should have known better....they're not metric....but I -could- use a metric tool to remove the nuts. However I bought some metric nuts and bolts and they are different, if not so much in sizem definitly in the thread.
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T-molding removal was also one of the easiest ever. No glue, no staples, they just put in the T-molding and it held out for 32 years ;) In all honesty it was coming loose a bit in the lower bend under the CP on one side.
I checked my parts and it turns out I still need the leathered T-molding for this restore....rats.
Removed all the metal stuff too. There are bolts in place where you wonder why there are bolts but I guess they used them to support it during production in corners.
Removed the fluorescent fixture for a rework.
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Good work Andre! Follow this with great interest.
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Sweet !
Also, you have a perfect color sample behind the removed sideart ;)
Look how the rest of the cabinet changed color, or is that just dirt ?
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Well to be honest I had already pulled off a little bit of the side-art in the earlier pictures where I compared the yellow paint....so that's "fresh from under the original side-art yellow" :)
Thanks guys.....I feel I'm nicely rolling along with this one ;)
Of course there are always some bumps in the road....
I had removed all parts on the marquee lighting board and cleaned everything, yes including the wire etc.
Installed the tube and figured I'd give it a try. So I hooked it up to the PSU and harness and switched on.
This was what happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittx4owfgZE (not my video.....)
I saw the starter glowing pretty bad for a second, then one single flash in the tube and then nothing anymore.....
Tried the starter and tube in the Ms.Pac, tube dead, starter still OK.
Conclusion: shorting ballast ! I think I had a bad ballast before but then it didn't blow up the bulb.....damn...
So I went to the DIY store and picked up one of those goofy cheap fixture/tube/starter/ballast sets that sell for the price of just the tube.....sadly these sets are always the 18W version and the tubes are too large, but I figured I could use the (as I thought) magnetic ballast.....
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When I had a second look I noticed there wasn't a starter on this......sooooo....
O wow, it's an electronic ballast by the famous brand Yongyao.......it actually has CE and some Tüv approvals but it looks flimsy, just like the rest of the thing.....so I figured I'd test this thing first. Hooked it up to the 230VAC.......nothing !!! DOA !!!
I had so much trouble actually turning around the tube in the holders (piss poor quality) that I decided I actually didn't want this electronic ballast to be in my Q*bert. I'd rather spent a bit more on a good one....
I haven't made up my mind yet. I can get good Philips brand electronic ballast for around 20 euro incl. shipping or I can get some original 110VAC ballasts from TwistyWrist.....the latter option saves me from having to do extra 230VAC wiring.....and I need more stuff from Riptor anyway.....
So I returned this el-cheapo fixture combo to the store for my money back and I also returned the Philips tube......hey miss, I don't know but this thing just didn't work when I installed it ! (note....no lies there !).....Oh yeah sorry, we can't test those tubes here but you can pick up a new one and I will send this one back....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Look how the rest of the cabinet changed color, or is that just dirt ?
It's a bit dirt, but mostly discolored.
Found out today that the carriage bolts are in fact not metric, should have known. however I -could- loosen the nuts with a metric tool and they fit perfectly hence my mistake. I compared them to 5 mm. Carriage bolts (slotbouten we call them) and they are pretty close but the thread is very different. The top is a little bit bigger on the metric one, but I decided that I will buy new metric ones and use these instead The square part of the head is also a tiny bit larger but all are set in the wood (MDF) panels so when tightening them they draw in nicely. Only thing is the nuts are much smaller on metric so I'll also buy some rings.
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My tech friends......can someone explain this....
It was nice and neat from the designers at Gottlieb to include some LEDs on the power board to indicate if the various voltages are present.
However, how they positioned them in the circuits makes me wonder....
If you look at the schematics......the top section is the +5V section. The LED and its current limiting resistor are the "last" two parts before the voltage goes into the harness towards the main PCB and Sound board.
This makes sense right ? yes it does.
But when you look at the +30V section, they placed the LED and its current limiting resistor BEFORE the section that regulates the 30V. (The Zener and the 2N3055).
Had they put it on the output, like the 5V section, they would only have to use a 1.2k resistor because there is 30V there.....but now they have to bring back the current from a 48V voltage and thus need a bigger resistor which needs to dissipate 18Volts extra.......the result is clear on any Q*bert power supply board.....
ALSO, if the Zener or 2N3055 fail, the LED will still be on, falsely indicating the 30V to be present !
They repeat the same weird set-up on the + and -12V.....
Anyone have a clue why ??
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Maybe because the +5V is the most important to get the game running ?
the 30 and 12 volts are not needed to get at least image ?
The 12V and 30 are used for the knocker and sound i presume ?
It is indeed strange to place the LED in front of the circuitry.
Just thinking out loud, i have no idea ???
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???
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???
?
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I read on KLOV that it's a good idea to increase cap C25 on the main PCB from 100uF to f.i. 470uF to prevent high-score resets.
So, I dug around in my parts box and found a nice Panasonic 105degr. Low ESR cap of 470uF....
Just look at that ESR value......incredible quality !!!
So quickly replaced the 100uF with this one...
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While I'm soldering, let's get out the brand new monitor cable and "mary" that to the harness....
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I had another look at the aux-panel and I noticed that the coin counter is a 6V type. That is weird as the power output for it is 20V....
I guess they hacked in a new one when they converted it to SF....?
Anyway, here's another paper sticker Etienne ! ;)
(I'll provide the measures a bit later....)
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So, I decided to hook EVERYTHING up this time. I first undid the PSU hacks and measured all the voltages again: fine.
Then hooked up the sound-board -> "Hello, I'm turned on" and beep when pressing test button -> OK
Then power down and hooked up the main board....power up -> Nothing......no "Hello, I'm turned on"......damn !
I noticed that the +5V Led was really really dim. Switched off quickly and got out the DVM and did a short power up again, +5V is WAY too low....looks like there's either a problem on the main PCB or in the +5V PSU section.....
Well, Robin skillfully repaired this PCB and the only things I've "done" to it is replace the two caps.....weird.
I'm measuring about 370 Ohms between +5V and ground......does that sound OK ?
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Anyway, here's another paper sticker Etienne ! ;)
(I'll provide the measures a bit later....)
Picture saved, need to send you a replacement for the serial also, the one you have has a mistake i found out recentely...
Section from the post on KLOV in the alusticker thread i posted..
Got mine today, looks great!
Interesting, yours has "D. Gottlieb" above the adress, i did not see that on the example i used to repro this :rolleyes:
EDIT:
Found the source i used...
now i know why i am missing that line..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/alusticker/qbert.jpg)
Looks like i need to revisit my file and add that line.
Also i see i left in a extra telephone number by accident.
I will check who ordered these in the last run, and in the next run i will do a reprint with the correct file and send them to people involved.
File adjusted:
(http://forums.arcade-museum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209283&d=1422660982)
(http://www.easywebshop.com/shops/arcadedecals/3933583-1.jpg)
[/quote]
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AWESOME Etienne !!!!
I think I found the problem on the Power PCB, the thyristor SCR11 (a MCR68-1) seems to be bad, at least I measure almost a short both ways between the anode and gate.
Maybe I blew this up when I tried the half-wave rectification....darn...
Of course I don't have one of those thyristors....can't find them either.
I wonder if it is very critical to have exactly the same one. I can find an 8A version locally (like the MCR68) but it has a voltage rating of 600V instead of 25V....not sure if that would be a problem, I don't think so really...
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(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s193/FlyingForces/qbert.png)
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Let's work on the backdoor a bit...
thinks it needs a bit of sanding and black paint :D
The material is weird, it seems like a stack of papers pressed and glued together...is that MDF ?
Once there was a Q*bert PCB set there....before the cab went through it's "dark days" as......<horror> StreetFighter......well at least that _DID_ make the cab survive :)
Luck is with me: I won't need the 4 studs for the filterboard anymore since I eliminated that and I need a couple to replace broken/bad one's on other spots :)
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Label is still nice.....sadly when I barely touched it it broke off from the staples (ARGGHHH!)......
Etienne: 12,7 x 3,8 cm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Removed the PCB board holder board (:D)....The alufoil board is meant to shield the electronics. I've seen pics that this is only half of the board and there was a part also covering over the PCBs. (great, more heat). I can see there are still staples from that alu-foil board but as on most Q*bert it's gone. I don't mind though.
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Backside of the "PCB board-board".....luckily everything is screwed with the usual hex screws so I can move the studs where I need them.
I removed all the studs first to clean up the board a bit, but I'm not going to do any hefty stuff on it....
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Reinstalled to old glorie !
Nice to have them like this now...easier to work with too :)
It was funny that even the harness support clamps where still around the harness and in the correct spots to screw them back on :)
I think I'll add one or two supports where the filter board used to be as there is no support for the pretty thick bunch of wires there now.
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aiii, I still need to checkl the monitor frame for you ::)
It's at my buddys storage space, I'll go and check it this week
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Etienne: 12,5 x 4 cm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Noted ;)
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Etienne: 12,5 x 4 cm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Noted ;)
Small correction, meusured a bit more precise this time:
12,7 x 3,8 cm
@Anu, thanks !
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Just to be Anal, i have gained alot of experience with reproducing decals, and the correction to apply here and there, but this is photographed under a pretty nice angle.
Could you measure the distance between the left of the decal and the start of the letters ?
I assime its centered, but as you can see, when i copy the arrowed line to the other side it looks that the distance on that side is shorter.
anyway, based on the start of the decal i can figure it out, but if you can, provide me the distance please ;)
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By the way do you know Peter Koch aka Inkochnito? He is a Dutch guy who does a lot of pinball scorecards, labels (like thousands I think 😃😃 ) ect. You two should share ideas. He has a lot of Gottlieb knowledge and know a lot about the fonts. Look him up if you like!
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Just to be Anal, i have gained alot of experience with reproducing decals, and the correction to apply here and there, but this is photographed under a pretty nice angle.
Could you measure the distance between the left of the decal and the start of the letters ?
I assime its centered, but as you can see, when i copy the arrowed line to the other side it looks that the distance on that side is shorter.
anyway, based on the start of the decal i can figure it out, but if you can, provide me the distance please ;)
Will do...the picture is taken with a slight angle pointing to the right.
I'll measure it and report back.
Note that there is a comma behind LED, not a dot :D
The material is carboard and the surface a bit shiny.
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For the first i need measurements, and the second i want to verify a printed example ;)
Can you print this (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/GottliebA-22382.pdf)and check it please ?
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I want to take you back to page 6 of this thread, i looked in my shed today.. ;D
Been doing a bit of research....i didnt know how the monitor was mounted in a Q*bert and it turns out they used a vertical framed monitor. (I opened a WTB about it here https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=6067.0 )
I actually don't even recall seeing a vertical framed monitor ever so they are pretty rare.....and I have little hope to find one.
SO......plan B is needed. plan B is to get a piece of multiplex, cut in a hole for the front it the tube and hang it in there and then install that multiplex board using some supports like these:
(http://www.webwinkelicono.nl/product_images/imported_images/plankdrager_zwaar_verz(1).jpg)
Maybe I could even hang the monitor directly on these supports somehow.....anyone ever tried this ?
I have 3 variants here;
25 Cm, no diagonal stud (2 available)
40 Cm, diagonal stud present (i only have one of these)
50 Cm (2 available but only one diagonal stud present)
I also have some aluminium strips to make some studs if nessecary
Let me know what you need/want ;)
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For the first i need measurements, and the second i want to verify a printed example ;)
Just printed it and compared. First thing I noticed: the "WARNING" text is exactly right.
However the first three lines of text under that are "spaced out" across the line, so they line up at the right side too.
However, the 4th line does not (the . is under the O of the word POWER in the 3rd line.
Also: the font on the main text is too wide.
The corner markings are an exact match so you are right about the size of the card.
Something I didn't say before.....and here comes the fun, I think the entire text is slightly tilted, lower at the right side on the original.
Another thing you asked: The top left D, the very left top of that letter is 12,5 mm from the left side of the card.
The right side of the H on the right is 13,5 mm from the right card edge, indeed not exactly centered.
Also......but please don ask me to measure this and........I wouldn't "include" this, but when I look at the card the entire text seems to be just a tiny bit slanted down to the right (left higher, right lower).
I can barely measure it though and this might just be a tolerance thing on the printing process then....but it might be fun to include it as it gives "just" that extra non-perfect-originality ;)
Included find a scan I just made of the original and your print-out.
Sorry, everything looks slanted now ;)
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Thanks for looking for the supports !!!
I do think I'm going to need two with studs because of the weight of the monitor....
If someone could provide me with the dimensions of a vertical monitor frame that would be awesome....even if only where the mounting holes are etc.
The thing is....I really want the CRT to be in the original position regarding to the bezel (distance below it too)....
My friend who welded threaded studs on the Puckman CP could probably replicate those things or maybe make something compatible.
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plan B is to get a piece of multiplex, cut in a hole for the front it the tube and hang it in there
That will work great. I did it like that with my Donkey Kong scratch-build.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FpoNMI8SwJY/ShmZlEEPSjI/AAAAAAAAAXA/HJTLK7vwtHU/s1600/DSC02433.JPG)
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1. Just printed it and compared. First thing I noticed: the "WARNING" text is exactly right.
2. The corner markings are an exact match so you are right about the size of the card.
3. Something I didn't say before.....and here comes the fun, I think the entire text is slightly tilted, lower at the right side on the original.
4. Another thing you asked: The top left D, the very left top of that letter is 12,5 mm from the left side of the card.
The right side of the H on the right is 13,5 mm from the right card edge, indeed not exactly centered.
5. Included find a scan I just made of the original and your print-out.
1. Almost, i see a detail that i need to fix
2. that would be correct because you gave me these measurements 8)
3. i dont think its tilted, i think these where printed with many on a sheet and cut afterwards, so they punched it out slanted probably (i can tilt it if you want)
4. Good to know, based on the angle pic that i had, i assumed it was centered, so the repro is centered. will adjust that also.
5. this is the best part, now i have a straight source to work with !
I'll update when i can.
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Hah, no rush....there's plenty of work to do left on this baby but thanks for all your help on this, it's awesome my friend !!!
Joeks: Yeah, problem with that set-up is that I'd need to install side-supports to the sides and I'd prefer not to have to do that.
BUT......I could used supports like Etienne posted to mount a piece of multiplex in which I'd do the same set-up as you.....if there is enough room for it...Maybe I only need some small strips of multiplex on the sides as to "bridge" the sides of the frame to those supports.....I'm sure I can figure something out.
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After rotating the picture straight (well at least the best i could), cropping and placing some guidelines, you are right.
The text is rotated clockwise a bit, or the cutout was rotated a bit anti-clockwise depending on how you look at it :D
This is a much better source than a pic, so i can redo it and now correctly.
Do you want the rotation in there, or do you want a nice straightened (fixed) version ?
i would say (because of the minimum difference) to make it perfectely straight, but thats just me..
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Well maybe you'll have to reproduce more for others so whatever you think is best :)
:spaceace:
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LOL, I never knew that Q*bert could stick his tongue through his nose....have to try this when I'm alone ;D
Lots of love fot the old woody!! :spaceace:
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Have re-done the repro, used a better fitting font for the "Warning", and followed your measurements in combination with the scan.
Can you verify this (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/gottliebtest.pdf) PDF ?
This is the "corrected" non tilted version 8)
Thanks !
ps. i still need measurements for this :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9496;image)
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LOL, I never knew that Q*bert could stick his tongue through his nose....have to try this when I'm alone ;D
Well I guess it's sort of his mouth too....cause else he doesn't have one right :) .......then again he doesn't have any arms either but one can live with that.....
Yes loads of love.....pretty obsessed with it really.... :) love the cab, the game, the character, everything ;)
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It was very nice weather today so perfect to do some serious sanding !
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Man, they always say arcade games were built to only last a couple of years, but anyone who has ever removed a CPO or sanded a cab bare to the bone can tell you it sure doesn't look like it !
But....after some hard work.....I end up with a very naked Q*bert. I bought sanding discs from Action and man, I can't believe how freaking good these are....seriously the longest lasting I've used and dirt cheap too !
They come in sets with P60, P120 and P240 grid and I used all three grids for nice finish.
The sides are TIGHT.... :) I do still have to look for any dents but the quick looks I had on both sides tell me there can't be that much....of course there is the corner/edge weaknesses but there's some stuff from Germany on it's way for that....
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Also some detail work done...The smaller one's are the originals, decided to keep some of the originals as they were not rusted, just needed some sanding, primer and paint. The one's I kept are for mounting the back/PCB board, figured it would be better to keep the original sizes there.
The bigger one's are the new metric one's.
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Looks nice !
Did you have time to check the new version of the decal ?
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OH, one more thing !
Of course I figured I needed to do some measuring where the original side-art was on both sides....before sanding luckily :D
Still could easily see where the edges of the side art were :)
The side art is not "mirrored" with Q*bert so the distances vary. Also......some factory tolerance ;)
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Looks nice !
Did you have time to check the new version of the decal ?
Yup and it's absolutely spot-on !
:spaceace:
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ps. i still need measurements for this :
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9496;image)
10,3 x 5,1 cm. sir ! :D
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I also ordered some stuff from www.twistywristarcade.com (Riptor on KLOV forum), mostly for the Q*bert but also some other parts.
Among the stuff:
- connectors and trifurcon pins and polarizing keys for them
- new edge connector
- pot for the PSU board
- fuse holders for the power brick
- fuse kits for the brick and PSU board
- 27V 10W zener diode.....for some experimenting :D
Most important though: a volume pot for the aux panel and 3 used but original and cheap ballasts for the fluorescent tube. I figured at this price having 2 on stock would be nice.
Before you know it a total order like this is almost 100 bucks incl. shipping.....
Riptor is awesome....he refunded 2 bucks because the shipping was a little bit less than the site calculated....kinda nuts for 2 bucks, but it shows the kind of guy he is....like that for future business.
I did not order his rebuild kit for the PSU board. The reasons:
- all the caps on my board are still fine
- all the diodes on my board are still fine
- I think replacing the 30V zenerdiode by a 27V or even 24V one is totally the wrong thing to do. It only means more heat being generated on the PSU board.
I am still looking for a different solution though....either with the 27V 10W zener (this is a stud mounting diode which must be installed on a heatsink) or using a LM350 but more on that later)
- silicon TO-3. I stick to mica and grease as long as I can. Picked up 20 mica's at my local electronics dealer for just 10 cents a piece. It was all he had on stock and I mentioned he'd have to order new one's now....he replied he didnt't know if he would because they barely sold anymore. By the way I've been searching for votlage regulators and transistors in TO-3 format last weekend and it seems that slowly but surely, these things are starting to become extinct.
SMD is taking over I guess.....
Anyway, I'm not saying it's a bad kit and for some people it will be a great solution but not for me.
I do have some doubts about the other semi-conductors on the PSU, following the "crash" of the 5V section when I hook up the main board but I ordered these at a new address I found in The Netherlands:
https://www.distrelec.nl/elfa3~nl_nl/
The site isn't as comfortable as f.i. RS online, but this company allows you to even buy resistors per piece and shipping costs is only 5,50, free if you order above 50 euro. And you can buy as a consumer there too, no need for a chamber of commerce number.
They also have good quality (Panasonic and Rubycon) 105 degr. C caps.....
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Just came home and walked towards the gameroom and I was a little bit in shock to see this....... :o
In case you missed it, that dark spot is the normal "color" of the stones.....LOL
If you ever consider sanding a cab inside............don't ;);)
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Okay, lets see;
Serial decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
Warning decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
working on the Bottom decal and the Aux panel decal
Do you have the measurements for the aux panel decal ?
I have placed two "dots" as it looks on the example that they are there, or is that dirt ?
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"Cabs ? Where we're going we don't need cabs !"
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It's running on a switcher for the 5V now...other voltages from original power supply set-up....I am partly thinking about keeping it that way.....if the 5V section of the original board really cooks like people say I might go for keeping it like this....
Parts from Www.twistywristarcade.com will be here tomorrow.......things are on a roll !
Big thanks to Robin for his help on this....I did give him something nice in return, hope you'll get some good use from it :)
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Cant remember if this has been asked, but are you planning to throw Mike Doyles 10 in 1 in there?
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Okay, lets see;
Serial decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
Warning decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
working on the Bottom decal and the Aux panel decal
Do you have the measurements for the aux panel decal ?
I have placed two "dots" as it looks on the example that they are there, or is that dirt ?
Etienne, I hate to question your awesome vector skills, but, to me that font looks too bold
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Cant remember if this has been asked, but are you planning to throw Mike Doyles 10 in 1 in there?
Good question.
I never thought I would actually finish the Q*bert before the JROK board would become available, but now it sure looks like that will happen !!!
But I still have some doubt between spending my money on the 10in1 kit or get a JROK board.
The best thing about the JROK board is being able to play Mad Planets (for which I would definitly make a seperate CP) but now all the original hardware is here....it would be kinda waste to not run it.
I think for the time I will just enjoy the original single game. It's fun enough as it is, I actually played it yesterday (although without sounds, couldn't hook up my hacked in pot and the aux panel together and I didn't want to do more hacking as the pot (and other stuff) arrives tomorrow :)
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No problem, positive criticism is Always welcome , thats the way things can be improved ;)
You are absolutely right, but.. it was not finished yet ::)
working on the Bottom decal and the Aux panel decal
Do you have the measurements for the aux panel decal ?
I have placed two "dots" as it looks on the example that they are there, or is that dirt ?
I need to make it thinner indeed.
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Okay, lets see;
Serial decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
Warning decal (http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/check.jpg)
working on the Bottom decal and the Aux panel decal
Do you have the measurements for the aux panel decal ?
I have placed two "dots" as it looks on the example that they are there, or is that dirt ?
Etienne, I hate to question your awesome vector skills, but, to me that font looks too bold
That sticker is gone from the Aux panel....not sure if I still have it....maybe I can measure the remainders, I'll try this afternoon.
I can also compare the font to the other cards, I don't thing there's a reason for them to change font right ? From that we should be able to figure out the size of the sticker I guess :)
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they did switched some fonts, for example, the warning sticker has the "WARNING" in Motiva Sans Black, and the rest of the text is Helvetica.
Then for the Aux panel they switched over to Aharoni (and i need to check if i have the "light" variant as this is too thick).
So on two labels they used 3 fonts..
The bottom decal looks to has the same setup as the warning decal, Motiva and helvetica.
:ghost: :ghost: welcome in my world.. :ghost: :ghost: ;D ;D ;D
(p.s. i want to thank chrischris who Always has a "listening ear" when i am desparate looking for a match :D)
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Ettiene, another thing I've just see with the sticker, maybe you have too, the arrows appear to be separated on that game/test switch
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Looking at the zoomed image, i would say indeed !
i doubted, because the Original has the damage exactely in that spot.
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http://youtu.be/A-LBeeve9cM?list=UUn47kbEAlRBSmWmdae45P2w
Took more Q*bert cursing to get the knocker working....also other shit going on, like loosing sync on the monitor....luckliy I very quickly discovered that the "ready made" video cables I bought from......I think arcadeshop has some serious problems on the criming of the pins in the connector: I could pull out the wires one by one.
Since I received trifurcon pins today from TwistyWristArcade I decided to replace them all with those, nothing but the best for Q*bert !
More on the knocker problems later.....very happy now....and tired....
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Too tired to talk in the video ? ;D
Nice work man !
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Indeed !!! ;D
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Riptor's stuff arrived quickly and without problems like "import duties" and "taxes"..... ;D\
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Oh yeah....this stuff arrived last friday and I set out to use some of it (or all ;)) that evening.
First of all, I wanted to hear the sounds. So I soldered the wires I had put on the tiny temporary pot to the new definite one and hooked it up. Worked like a charm ! Finally I got to play some games with sound....a world of difference, especially so with Q*bert which, apart from the speech, has some of the best arcade sounds ever.
But....there was still something missing of course....yes the famous knocker !
Ahhhh, how hard can that be....I got a "brand new" (??) one that I bought when I was just a MAME-boy, when I dreamt of hooking it up to my MAME machine....hahahaha ;)
OK first hurtle to take is clear on the picture....the connector on the knocker seems to have been washed too hot...
Of course I had already seen that and I had ordered the correct connector for it. I am making good use of my Molex crimper these days, pins I already have :)
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Oh...I also had to add on a fuse holder and fuse in one of the wires. All done.
As a precaution I measured the coil for resistance. It was about 18 Ohms, sounded OK to me.
There is a damping diode in parallel across the coil but you can't measure that because of the low resistance of the coil which "spoils" any diode-check attempts with a DVM (you will get a short/beep in both directions). So I figured it would be OK because -ususally- diodes go short when they die, in that case I would have measured something very close to zero ohms.....
So had it hooked up and powered on: flash, that was the fuse....
Mmmmm.....OK but why ? Let's measure what comes out of the transistor on the PCB: argh....a constant 30V...that's not good, the coil would burn if there hadn't been a fuse !
SO: the transistor must be dead. Luckily there are 4 identical transistors on the board and only the knocker and coin counter are usually used. The other two are for optional coin-lock out and an extra coin counter.
So I compared them with DVM in diode check and sure enough all three others showed other values than the one that triggers the knocker.
So I removed the bad one and moved one of the others to that spot.
Let's try again.
Power up, one trigger of the knocker and FLASH there goes the 2nd fuse.... :evil: :evil: :evil:
WTF ???
How can this be....damn....
mmmm-mmmm-mmmm. OK the only thing I KNEW I hadn't tested was that damping diode because it's soldered so tightly over the coil terminals....but now I HAVE to. So I cut it loose instead of unsoldering it and measure it:
OPEN in both directions ! OK I KNOW semiconductors can fail in two ways but I've actually ALWAYS seen diodes gone bad in short !
Conclusion: the damping diode could not do it's work when the trigger was fired. What this diode does is prevent a "back current" into what steers the coil. So this is what happened and blew the fuse.
OK....replace the diode, it's a standard 1N4004 or so....and try again.
Because I only had fast 1A fuses and it actually needs to be a slow-blow I decide to go for a bit higher value this time because maybe this is also causing the fuse to blow.
Try it again.....nothing......but this time the sound dies too after a few seconds. So I look at the 30V indicator diode -> no light !
This time the 30V section fuse was blown....argggh..
OK so I check the transistor again and sure enough...the failing diode had blown the transistor (again).....so I move the last "spare" one, put in a 1A fast fuse again, replace the 30V fuse on the PSU board and try again.....
Holy crap....it works.....and it works. ......and it works.....sweet victory !!! ;D ;D ;D
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I also received some used but good ballasts from Riptor. At less than 4 bucks each I figured I'd stock 2.
Measured them and they all are about 30 ohms....the one on my Q*bert showed about 6 ohms....
Replaced and "Let there be light !".....
I still think the 60Hz 110V ballasts are not 100% happy with our 50Hz.....you can actually hear it when they're running but....oh well.....we'll see how long it lasts...
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Lots of detailled info, thanks !
(http://media.northpointministries.org/content/sunday/let-there-be-light/LetThereBeLight_580x326.jpg)
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You're welcome Etienne :)
Surprisingly, the wood sides are extremely smooth. I had applied the wood hardener and one go was enough for this wood, although I wouldn't say it makes it rock solid.
I only had to fill one corner. I'm pretty tired and sick of using "Bondo" so I say fuck the Bondo and I used some Action "fast" wood filler that my wife had bought. A bucket full costs close to nothing....I've worked with it before and it was damn fine. I love that you open the lid, use the stuff and ready after drying....no mixing too much or too little hardener etc.
I used the old T-molding as a guide...
Of course I also had to fill the two holes they made for the security bar....
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So let's do the primer. First time I have primer mixed to color.
First pic after one layer, second two layers.....the particle board really sucks this stuff up.
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And the other side.....
I will sand and do at least two more coats of primer....I still got plenty of it anyway.
I also did most of the black parts first coat but forgot to take a pic.
I will do the rest of the paint job inside....too much stuff floating in the air and landing on the paint.
Must say I am REALLY happy with the paint color....looks very promising IMHO.....
Anyone got suggestions for the best roller for the final coats ?
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Sanded the sides lightly after drying with 240 grid.
Put on another coat of primer and I still have some left for a thin last coat.
Must be crazy ......putting on 4 coats of primer, when I paint stuff in my home I do one maybe two coats ....but it doesn't hurt anything and else I'd ditch it anyway.....(I always keep some of the final paint in case there might be any future damages to fix but I see little use in keeping this color matched primer)
I had a look at the black parts and well....they suck. The paint is too shiny and for some insane reason I thought I could get away without priming the black parts, while I had sanded some bare, and other (largest) parts still have the old paint....I'll need to redo that....means sanding and primering, and using a less shiny black paint (this stuff was supposed to be satin but it's way too glossy for that.)
I watched John's video where he primered and painted the Journey. Apart from laughing again about the brown paint (the entire family here did :) ) I learned some things, the most important is the 2000 grid automotive sandpaper for the final coat...sure gonna try that. Maybe even a final treatment with a magic eraser might be a good idea....ultra-fine sanding ;)
Some things I saw John do that I would do differently:
- don't put the stirring stick on the dusty floor and then put it in the paint.....
- I always learned to "set-up" the paint across in the direction that you finish your rolling. So, when I have put up some paint on the roller, I do one or two rolls horizontal and only then start to roll out the paint in vertical movements. I also roll both in up and down directions I noticed John (tried to) roll only downwards.....any reason for that ?
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Love that profile in the window ;);)
Final (4th) coat of primer done yesterday when I returned from work. Had exacly enough....and just a 250ml. can, hope the same goes for the paint.
The real color is more like the picture through the window.....stupid Samsung telephone camera.....
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YEAAAAAAAHHHHH, first coat of paint done and......fuck guys.....I am already proud of myself.
I must say.....this is some quality paint. I _did_ also learn a bit from John's video about painting the Journey cab in that I now do the last "rolls" with very little pressure and the very last one's I start at the top and roll all the way down to the bottom.
Is there orange peel ? Yes there is orange peel, but not terrible. And with the other thing I learned (using automative very high grid sanding paper on the final coat) I am sure this is going to be one smooth Q*bert :)
The second picture shows the color best....the lighting in my gameroom is not exactly pure white ;)
Pics taken right after doing the coats so still whet....
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Geez it really looks like that color-matched primer is a HUGE help....it already looks very nice with just one coat and I used maybe 1/8th of the can !!!
I always try to put not too much paint in my rolling-tray because it's stupid to throw it away and you can always take some more if needed.
So I thought I had put in enough for one side but I could easily do both sides with this little paint. This is also good, thin layers are better :)
I think I could do like 7 coats or so with this small can.......makes me wonder what on earth John did with his GALLON of blue paint (or was it brown?) for the Journey ??
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...
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Looks great Andre, seeing this restore makes me kinda feel like this regarding the hobby..
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1b/1b31a7473fed320aab61fc0e93158176a1ef09de4156ba7e3c718e5999d700fb.jpg)
;)
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That's great to hear Pieter !!
And I understand completely....I must say I am really back "on the game" now....love working on the Q :)
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Looks good, have fun with it ;)
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OK, every day a layer so far so I applied the 3rd layer couple of hours ago. I sand in between the layers by hand and a sanding block with a grid 400.. Removes the most of the orange peel. I think I won't do it between layer 3 and 4 though....and maybe 5.....
With the door of my gameroom open I had enough daylight this afternoon to see that not everything was really well covered. Not a big problem, there's no need to cover it completely in 1 or 2 layers, in fact it's better not. However, turns out the guy at the DIY store was right that yellow was a tough color to cover.
Anyway, can't waste time so back to the control panel.....
And holy m...... f...... what a bitch it is !
I thought my Ms.Pac CP was a nightmare, but this one was worse (or my memory faded a bit).
In some sort of desperate attempt I had applied some general "sticker remover" stuff from the Gamma (DIY store). Needless to say it did little...
So what now....I decided to give it a try my trusty Black&Decker eccentric sander....this was a great gift from my dad must be one of the tools I use most for restorations....can't believe there are (were ;)) actually people living without one of these ;D
I discovered already before that when you slightly tilt the sander in an angle it "bites" a lot more into what it is "eating". Maybe that's not the royal way to do it, but WTF.
As long as that unbelievably stubborn goo gets off !!!
So I tried it a bit and yeah....not too bad....
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But it was not exactly the right place to do it on the kitchen counter so I removed the rest outside.......Mind you it was still a struggle like hell.
It took a couple of hours and a handful of 60 grid discs to get rid of every little bit. The bent-over edges are the worst parts....
On some spots I noticed it was getting tougher than before....then I rememberd those were spots I didn't touch with the sticker remover so I decided to wet those parts with the stuff and immediately sand.....aaaaahhh those smells.....I'm still tripping man !
That sure worked though ! Probably my new method for the next (argh) I'll have to do.
Still need to sand the under side, can't reach these parts with the B&D regretfully, gonna need serious hand work.....also on the inside of the bends, there's actually some rust there. I'll have to bend sanding paper over a stick or so to reach that...
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Have you ever tried varnish remover?
That's usually used to remove paint from wooden doors/stairs/furnitures.
It worked fine for me on my Centi CPO.
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That sticker is gone from the Aux panel....not sure if I still have it....maybe I can measure the remainders, I'll try this afternoon.
Picking up the remaining work on these decals, did you find out the width of the decal perhaps ? then i can scale it and print them in the next run (#SOON)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9637;image)
The other is done and placed in my file to print for you, and also added to the shop.
230V variant:
(http://www.easywebshop.com/shops/arcadedecals/4831881-1.jpg) (http://www.easywebshop.com/arcadedecals/detail/4831881-gottlieb-fuse-decal-230v)
110V variant:
(http://www.easywebshop.com/shops/arcadedecals/4831878-1.jpg) (http://www.easywebshop.com/arcadedecals/detail/4831878-gottlieb-fuse-decal-110v)
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Have you ever tried varnish remover?
That's usually used to remove paint from wooden doors/stairs/furnitures.
It worked fine for me on my Centi CPO.
Do you have a brand or picture Chris, sounds interesting !
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Awesome Etienne. I don't have that certain sticker on the Aux panel anymore...I could maybe measure the remains on the metal but it will be inaccurate.
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If you have the size of the holes and / or the nut size, i can scale to that.
in combination with the remains we will be pretty close to the size.
at least good enough for a replacement i think.
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the label is 85 x 16 mm. :)
By the way, you need a tleast 5 'serial only' decals, there is one on the power brick and four on the door-panel boards:
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/QBert/0822140846_zpsz81ek4nf.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/QBert/0822140846_zpsz81ek4nf.jpg.html)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/QBert/0822140847_zpskpnug0ju.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/QBert/0822140847_zpskpnug0ju.jpg.html)
I didn't see one on the monitor.
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Ah, ok, i guess the other person that ordered 4, only ordered them for the boards only perhaps.
will make a set ;)
Thanks for the details Erik !
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Have you ever tried varnish remover?
That's usually used to remove paint from wooden doors/stairs/furnitures.
It worked fine for me on my Centi CPO.
Do you have a brand or picture Chris, sounds interesting !
Sadly, I don't remember which one I used, it was just leftovers from what we had used on our stairs.
It was smoking and looked very dangerous. The lid of the can kept popping up by itself so I got rid of the rest :)
John('s arcade) uses something similar too on his DL control panel (check it out at 0h23min").
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQFKRxqauOE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQFKRxqauOE)
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It's funny.....the last days I've come into a certain routine:
When I get home I put on my old cloths, get out the painting stuff and roll another layer of yellow paint on the Q*bert :)
I've done layer five a couple of hours ago ( :shock: :shock: :shock:).
Today I was home pretty early and I could let the full sunlight fall on the side and I thought I could still see some "shining through" but it could also be that my mind is just tricking me.....
Anyway another layer went on and I think I'm done....at least I hope.
I called some paint shops around the European Arcade Capital and sure enough one of them had P1500 and P2000 grid waterproof sanding paper.
Picked up 3 sheets of each 1500 and 2000....those sheets are pretty small compared to regular sheets (I think half the regular size) and also pretty expensive compared to regular sheets....paid €4,80 for those 6 sheets. well OK they are 3M brand and we all know that is quality for sure...
I'll try this stuff tomorrow. If it works and is OK then that is that and I'm finished with the yellow.
What I hope is that apart from getting rid of the orange peel it will also make the paint a little less shiny....I got gloss paint but it's maybe a little bit too much, maybe I should have gotten semi-gloss but hopefully the fine sanding paper this also makes it less shiny.
If I screw up, I still have enough paint for another layer and I'll leave it like that.
Also finally ordered the black leathered T-molding and I'm going to have a look how to mount the monitor, shouldn't wait with that...
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Nice progress.
I know what you mean with routine, but dont break this routine, or there will be minor things to do, which will then never happen. ;)
Break the routine when the cab is totally finished :spaceace:
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Haha, and then I will stay in the routine with...........>DONKEY KONG in RED<
(I have the "feel" of painting now :))
Anyway, home early enough to put my Q*ty in the full sunlight....what do you guys think ?
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Now I'm in some doubt.....Yes there is orange peel but....it looks damn licking yellow good !
I have some fear of the 2000 grid sanding.....I know John had good results on his Jouney, but he used Latex paint and this is proper oil based....
Thought of painting a small "test" bit on some piece of wood and try that first but that means waiting another 24 hours for it to dry....I think I'll just give it a shot....worst case scenario: I need to add a 6th coat....
Oh for those interested here's the paint info:
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(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9900;image)
geez, bright as the sun....you need sunglasses for watching these pics 8)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://api.ning.com/files/2UQK6ReZQy5sQ52aGojq4K7b2pzkPUele554MeUq26muJLzykCL-bKY5n5CvceLhvvowNNUb7zfpCX5wEOwLeehOQqNuONfn/BANG_Logo3.jpg?width=183&height=183&crop=1:1)
It's strangely satisfying to paint with such a primary color, I mean.....you ususally use "moderate" colors inside your home .....that's so awesome about these machines, everything to get attention....smack-dag in your face ! ;D
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geez, bright as the sun....you need sunglasses for watching these pics 8)
Yeps... even with a very low contrast setting on my monitor, this yellow color brights like the sun!... GREAT! :spaceace:
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OK....so I tried the exact some method of sanding with 2000 grid sanding paper. Even had a spray bottle with water and some soap and I did an entire side. It worked, there was yellow on the paper towel, but it din't look good.
Not sure if it's the color or the paint (oil instead of latex) but I got "dark spots" instead of the slight orange peel.
I still had the cab outside, I twisted it around a few times to the same light to compare the sides and decided that I liked the unsanded side MUCH better.
Ok there's some orange peel. So what ? It will never look like spray-painted that's for sure....I don't care. It looks GREAT.
SO.....I had to put on a 6th coat and I did both sides.....even now I still have some paint left.....pretty unbelievable really.
It was just a half-liter can.
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Looks great, can't wait to see it real life 8)
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So.....there have been some new Q*bert owners and in the spirit of this fantastic forum I'd like to ask you guys for some help...
I could really use some good detailed pictures of exactly how the monitor is mounted on the inside and especially how the artwork bezel and inner black bezel are looking and how they are positioned.....
I also need to know how that inner plastic bezel looks and if it has a small or large edge etc.
Would be vey much appreceated if anyone can find some time for that :):):)
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So.....there have been some new Q*bert owners and in the spirit of this fantastic forum I'd like to ask you guys for some help...
I could really use some good detailed pictures of exactly how the monitor is mounted on the inside and especially how the artwork bezel and inner black bezel are looking and how they are positioned.....
I also need to know how that inner plastic bezel looks and if it has a small or large edge etc.
Would be vey much appreceated if anyone can find some time for that :):):)
I'd be glad to help you with that!
I'll go to the storage some time this week.
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Awesome my friend !!!
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One tip I'd like to share maybe not everyone knows:
In between painting sessions I used to intensely (try to) clean the roller. Often that failed and I simply used a new roller because there still was paint left in the roller that had dried out and would screw up your next coat.
However this is still a waste (and if you clean it's a lot of messy work and terpentine to be used) and I heard about this tip somewhere.
First time I tried it I expected nothing from it but.....it works great and have used it ever since:
When you're ready with painting wrap the roller in aluminium foil, do it carefully so it is fully closed.
The next day, simply unpack and roll away again ! The paint left in the roller is still fluent and I have done this cab 6 times with one single roller :)
I do use fresh aluminium foil each time... else too much risk of holes that will let in air.
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Aluminium foil rocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0TEJMJOhk
Sad the Americans found it too hard to pronounce it correctly ;D
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Many thanks for this tip!!! Cleaning the roller is really a pain :roll:
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When you're ready with painting wrap the roller in aluminium foil, do it carefully so it is fully closed.
Yeah, works great, we are doing this since years, easy solution.
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I love when things get into the "make better" face instead of "prep fase".....
Bought some new kind of black spray paint....
Motip Carat black matt.
Sprays very even and I realy really like the result.
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Let's do this !
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Done.
Used the wife's hair dryer to fold over the edges.... but I felt like a little more heat would have been better......but it worked....
I have some doubt if it was wise to go with black paint on the panel.....seems to shine through a bit on the yellow parts.......but there's no way back now and its not a big thing....
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I have some doubt if it was wise to go with black paint on the panel.....seems to shine through a bit on the yellow parts.......but there's no way back now and its not a big thing....
had the same problem with my crystal castles back then. at the moment i am doing my gyruss and i will leave this cp the way it is and compare the results.
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I have some doubt if it was wise to go with black paint on the panel.....seems to shine through a bit on the yellow parts.......but there's no way back now and its not a big thing....
had the same problem with my crystal castles back then. at the moment i am doing my gyruss and i will leave this cp the way it is and compare the results.
So it's now the bare metal or already some sort of paint?
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So it's now the bare metal or already some sort of paint?
after stripping the cpo it is just bare metal. i will sand an clean it and then i will apply the cpo on the metal. just like it used to be.
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Well, I guess that depends on factory because this one was painted black originally !
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9326;image)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9336;image)
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Black leathered T-molding arrived !
They tried to deliver the package yesterday, that was 4 days from the shipping date in the US !!!!! An absolute record, usually it's about 6 or 7 days...still beats what the German guys have to go through :D
Picked it up from the post office today.......the trackball is for Luigi :)
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damn...now I have to install a LED underneath the trackball assy ;)
Looks great, can't wait to see it glowing :)
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Better get a super bright big LED for it buddy, the one on my 2 1/4" is already very very bright, I mean laser/eye-burning beyond repair bright :)
Let's finish the CP !
I had some buttons that I thought were OK for Q*bert. No idea where/when I got them from anymore and if they were sold as Q*bert buttons or not....but I had some clear doubts about them.
First of all, they have 4 "spokes" in the plunger. I have been googling for Q*bert control panel pictures that were clear enough to clearly see how the start buttons look, but none of my preceding restorers managed to take a freaking decent picture.....but I'm pretty sure now.
I didn't have the correct buttons....but then I remembered that Joust US version has the same buttons, at least I'm 99% sure they are the same......AND that I got a US control panel with my 2nd Euro Joust.....
So I dug it up:
Yep, those look correct.
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By the way, I never realized that Joust's start buttons were originally back-lit:
Now....I don't have a use for this Joust CP as I only have Euro Williams machines....the only thing I really want from it are the joysticks and the blue flap button. All the rest is....useless.
So....little harm to remove the start buttons and put them in the Q*bert CP :)
I cleaned them, washed them, de-rusted the springs and e-clips and made some comparison pictures that ARE clear.....well clear enough..
Left is the original Joust/Q*bert button, right the (wrong) replacement. 3/4 spokes is clear enough :)
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However, there are more differences between them that (once installed) are actually way more visible.
The lip (edge ?) of the button that is around the hole is thicker on the original button. Also the plunger is much higher and the top is flatter (where the newer button is more concave).
It's all minor until you put them on the panel....than the difference is clear between night and day.
I still really wonder why Gottlieb didn't back-lit the buttons....would have been nice :)
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I noticed that TwistedQuarter sells both these buttons:
Newer 4 spoke version:
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_154&products_id=772
Joust button:
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_154&products_id=1510
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Put the joystick in....so now the panel is complete. It looks perfect and I don't regret removing the old overlay....it would have bugged me to have a fully restored machine with lots of repro artwork and still keeping a damaged/dirty CP.
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It's not really ready though:
I still have to either dig up or buy a set of leaf button holders, can't use those from the Joust as that has wood behind the metal.
Also: one of the micro-switches on the joystick doesn't "click" like the other 3 which gives it a weird feeling when playing, and another micro-switch got damaged probably from the unsoldering of the wires.
So I'm looking to replace all 4. Any suggestions ?
I'm not looking to get the originals, those are these:
First I was thinking....what brand is this, Freeport, Ill. ? But that sounds like a city in the state of Illinois...I did some googling and it turns out that the brand of these micro-switches was...... Micro Switch.
I never realized that that was an actual brand...the factory/brand belonged to Honeywell by the way...
Can't find anything about these specific model switches nor do I really need to have these, but I do want good quality ones (should have ordered a couple of these with the trackball and T-molding:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=92&products_id=346
These sound really what I would like for a micro-switch....
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Oh, and this "detail" on the joystick I will love forever.....
Manufactured by Suzo in the city I was born and lived at the time, went to the US to go into a Q*bert, and now more or less returns home ;D
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I have a bunch of NOS Cherry microswitches with NO-contact only. Let me know and I'll throw some (8?) into your pocket within the next 8 days!! ;)
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AWESOME THANKS !!! :)
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Alpha-Torn from the KLOV forum was kind enough to provide some pics of how to mount the monitor and also how the original bezel looks like and is fitted.
It's not that I wasn't patient ChrisChris but we were talking about the Q*bert buttons on KLOV forum and I mentioned it and he provided the pics before I knew it :)
So, hopefully it saves you some time this weekend ;)
(http://forums.arcade-museum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215122&d=1426885624)
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(http://forums.arcade-museum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215123&d=1426885643)
(http://forums.arcade-museum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215124&d=1426885683)
I'm still looking for monitor supports like that (vertical) and a black plastic bezel like that......if anyone has a spare. Else I'll have to order in the US and I'm sure shipping is not going to be funny for such a big thing...
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Pictures are missing.
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No they're not if you're a KLOV member :)
Will upload them here a bit later....
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Pics...
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didn't have the time to search them...but did you look at thearcadeboneyard.com (http://thearcadeboneyard.com/monitors,frames_and_chassis/monitor_frames.php)? I bought the monitor frames for my Journey there :)
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Yep I did, quite incidentally I e-mailed him today....he didn't have a Q*bert bezel but something that would fit.....price was .....OK.......shipping costs was not right !!!! >:( More than 40 bucks....
HATE the current euro-dollar rate !
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"Secretly" I'm hoping this would fit: http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200_203&products_id=1302
It looks just a bit too small though...However, I think it wouldn't be much of a problem to make "the edges" a bit larger here.
The alternative would be this one:http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_62&products_id=341
but why is the smaller one 6 bucks and the other 30 ? Also, all that extra plastic won't help the shipping price.
However, I need more stuff from Twistedquarter.com anyway, and it makes more sense to combine the bezel from them in that case.
Both these bezels have one big drawback though: inside the curved parts there is some extra edges that make it more "square"......I'd love to cut that out (like the original has it) but not too sure that is possible without ruining it....
I'm pretty sure a Midway Pac/Galaxian bezel would work by the way.
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Here's a better picture from that smaller bezel from twisted quarter:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqVHJB8E-8Is)EwgBPyYNQy5Uw~~/s-l1600.jpg)
See the extra most-inner edge....that shouldn't be there for my application....
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Looks "removable" to me ;) :D
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Mmm,with a knife ? looks to stiff for it....maybe with various cuts along the same edge...
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perhaps with something like this:
(http://www.sunlitemitre10.com.au/site/assets/media/power-tool-images/dremel_395.jpg)
??
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I'd use a Dremel too. And afterwards a fine sanding paper or a heater to sand or burn the remaining little edges smooth. :)
Btw: Awesome resto so far! Go go go!
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I'm not sure if my hand is steady enough for using the Dremel for this...
Some small but important work done, rebuilt the joystick :)
The rubbers replaced (about time ;))
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Aaaaaaaaannndd....thanks to Luigi a set of spanking new Cherry micro-switches installed ! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
Thanks my friend !!!
By the way, before I get questions: that blue connector is there because it needs to have 3 wires crimped to it, won't fit in the other type of connector :)
I'm a bit sad that the joystick rebuild kit doesn't include a new rubber for the end of the stick. This has gotten a bit dented where it pushes on the micro-switches (see the lower left part of the pic in the previous posting) and a new one would activate them a bit quicker I guess. Probably a part that can't be find though. I may experiment with some rubber band or something if I don't like the joystick's feel.
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Spring finally started here so I decided to paint the black parts. Inspired by John's video about the Journey I decided to give rattle can spray painting a go. I carefully protected the sides and sprayed away.
I'm not happy with the results. I'll sand it a bit again and roll it....it just doesn't really cover nicely somehow.
However, since I had the cab out anyway I decided to do some other work....I wanted to see some result to motivate myself again :)
It was a lot of repositioning and measuring. My conclusion is that this repro artwork does NOT have exactly the correct sizes as the original....at least not as the one that was on my cab....o well....
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YEAH BABY, I"M BACK !!!!
(do we agree Coily is one of the cutest bad guys in the history of video gaming ? ;D
Damn I love tearing away the masking on side-art :)
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......aaaaaaaaaannnnnndddd....
Done !
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The best moment!!! YEeeessss!!! :-* :-* :-*
:spaceace:
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Looks sweet !
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yessss :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Looks real good!!!
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Awesome!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Awesome!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
+1! :spaceace:
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GREAT!!! just amazing!
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Heheh, thanks guys :)
Is it perfect ? No.
In the sunlight, which was shining across the sides yesterday, I could see that the wood is not perfectly flat. There are some bumps, probably created by the sanding I did and I never noticed them without the paint....another lesson learned, but as long as it's in a gameroom no-one is going to see it.
Also, the side-art has been stored for quite some time and in a tube that was not long enough for the artwork. Following this some wrinkles had come on the edge on one side and it shows if you look closely.
It is as it is. So that's the second lesson learned.
I'm quite pleased though....it looks amazing, factory fresh in general :)
Getting some GOOD black paint that I can roll tonight, I really want to leave that part behind me. Next time, I will also start with the black.
It's great to be in the "build up" fase now :)
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:spaceace:
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:spaceace:
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Turned out really nice, reminds me to Ully's cabs, hahaha. ;D
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Good to hear from you my friend !
I absolutely consider that as a HUGE compliment......Ully's work is better though.....much better.
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Live from the
gameroomworkplace....
-black paint, DONE
-t-molding, DONE
-front art, DONE
Still rolling :)
Don't like the black paint......god what is it with black paint ??? I bought a can of SATIN paint and it looked really not too shiny on the cover but look at it on the machine....WTF ?
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I had the same with pins, every single type and brand of black is different :evil: every touch up I made stays visible .... >:(
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I'm actually on the point of going back to the store and showing it to them and demand my money back. Paint is crazy expensive these days.....and the product is not what the cover claims it to be.....
It's like a freaking mirror !!
I think I'm going to order some black mattt Oracal vinyl....I'm done with painting the Q*bert........
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Mmmmmm, forgot to prep something.....guess I need to get out the wire-wheel :)
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thought you had a tumbler ?
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Chris and I do, but I don't think that will be up to the task...
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Mmm, I tried removing one or two bubbles exactly the way I did like with the Ms.Pac Man side art but this time the cuts stay visible (although tiny) so I just stopped.....
Maybe I _should_ try the "wet" method next time.....maybe when I receive the Oracal 631 :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNPedla1gg
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Mmm, I tried removing one or two bubbles exactly the way I did like with the Ms.Pac Man side art but this time the cuts stay visible (although tiny) so I just stopped.....
Maybe I _should_ try the "wet" method next time.....maybe when I receive the Oracal 631 :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNPedla1gg
wet worked fine when i tried it for the first time with the gorf sidearts. it is save and you get the water dand the bubbles out with no worries. i only used water. nothing else.
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Good to know !
Ha, look what I found back.....a picture of the very first moment I ever saw what is now my Q*bert:
It was 7 januari 2006 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I vividly remember the excitement of seeing not just 1 but 2 Q*berts.....a machine I had never seen before in Europe until then....
I also vividly remember that I started asking like mad who owned the machines...... ;D ;D ;D ;D
How lucky was I that both were in the hands of some of the best friends I have found through this hobby ;D ;D
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Does anybody happen to have two spare leaf button holders for metal panels that they won't be needing ?
They may be of the newer kind, I don't really mind since they are for the P1 and P2 buttons only.
Of course some older ones are fine too.
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Do you have a picture what button holders you need? I'm sure I/we have some left :)
And I'm also sure it was later than 2006.....digging out the pics....2010 ;)
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Hah, already thought that couldn't be right LOL :)
Must have been an incorrect date on a camera ;)
Something like this (already have the leaf switches).... They may be old/dirty, I don't mind :)
http://www.arcadeshop.de/popup_image.php?pID=291
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Fuck black paint.
Oracal 631 black Matt just arrived from Germany :spaceace:
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Fuck black paint.
it is the way to go! i am deeply in love with that stuff now.
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I have a hunch I am going to be too !
It looks 100 times better already. paid a little over 20 euros incl. shipping for 5 meters at 63 cm. wide.
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Well mmmmmm....so i installed the black vinyl yesterday....and is it love ? In fact it's more a love/hate relation I guess....
The stuff is very thin and very flexible. This is both a blessing and curse IMHO.
The bad thing is that it wrinkles very quickly if you are not extremely careful. I wasted three large parts, one for the kick area and two for the top. I finally decided to pre-cut the stuff to size for the visible (forward) part of the top only and leave the back in the black paint as it was....
I did also use it for the inside of the bezel area but I got plenty of tiny bubbles there. However, since the nature of the material and the matt black it's not very visible and I just accepted it as another tiny imperfection....I am SO done with the black on this cab...
Anyway, I AM very pleased with the look of the vinyl. It's tight and matt not the ugly shiny like the paint was so that's great.
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Back side. Door re-insatlled. I didn't bother prepping the door's back side....no holes filled etc. It's the back and it has some battle scars and that's just fine, it gives it some character....
I found a "new" and quick way to de-rust the hinges and CP supports: I got out my belt sander and hit the parts with it....worked GREAT and QUICK :)
Really happy about the top side, as mentioned I reversed the inner and outer metal vents and installed brand new (metric) carriage bolts.
Found a nice switch, not 100% original but acceptable. Soldered it and I had to drill the hole in the metal mounting plate a bit larger.
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Assembling parts and harnesses....always a good feeling :)
Found out that I probably forgot some bolts/nuts when re-installing the boards section. I reinstalled the (rather useless) silvery cardboard and that weird metal strip that used to be there for closing the now missing part of that silvery cardboard. I could ditch the parts and save some weight but gotta keep it as complete as possible, right ?
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And so....step by step....it's going in the right direction :)
All black parts on the front side are covered with the Oracal, up to the lower part that holds the marquee.....
Now..........where on earth did I leave the top (and only) marquee retainer.....can't believe it, I kept ALL parts together in one crate at all time to not make this mistake again but somehow........i lost it .....I'm sure it will surface though ;)
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Its starting to come to the end !
Nice work my man :spaceace:
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Thanks Etienne !
Yes getting close....biggest problem is coming up though....the monitor.
I want it to be positioned 100% correct and that's pretty hard without the (inside) bezel/shroud. Going to be hard anyway.....I'll have to figure out how to position the supports and the monitor and the combination of both....
If anyone has a vertical monitor like used in Q*bert and could measure some sizes while the monitor is standing on a desk that would be brilliant.
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Ah, forget about the monitor and just put the cab in your living room and admire it as a piece of art - it's almost too nice to play it! :spaceace:
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Waha, Thanks Marco.....but it would be like a gorgeous woman without a brain ;D ;D ;D ;D
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hahah, I'll leave the obvious comments to the honorrouble gentlemen on this forum :)
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I meant that in the most respectful way possible my friend....I actually like women with a brain.
As you may have noticed the Power Supply PCB was not installed yet and this of course was for a reason...
I hadn't fixed it completely. (Remember I had the test set-up running with a switcher for the +5V). So I fixed the PSU and replaced the connector pins.
Here's a nice comparison of the new and the old pins, I will leave it to you guys to guess which is which ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, this proves that this is really something you should look into.
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I meant that in the most respectful way possible my friend....I actually like women with a brain.
I know! but I expected someone to still make a silly joke, guess we're indeed all gentlemen on here :)
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Oh and of course I tested the Power PCB and it works great !!!
However...the horror stories about this board are true......it's not a power supply, it's an electrical heater.
Now I know Gottlieb was located in Chicago, and I know winters can be crazy there but.....this is pretty insane....I haven't come across a PSU board that heats up so much as this one.....and I think I am not going to live with it.
I have ordered several parts to see if I can improve this situation, see the earlier posts about this on this thread...more about that later though.
Anyway, I ended up with a blind-playing Q*bert and attract sounds were happy and the knocker fired at start up.
arquee was also nicely bright....to be honest......it is very bright.....and the reason for this became apparent to me right away:
The regular Q*bert marquee has the yellow Q*bert letters......this one has the text balloon with the swearing and this is completely white inside.
I already know this is going to annoy me....I really like the low profile of the Q*bert cab, but this also means that the light is shining directly in your eyes....OK we'll worry about that later.
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Don't worry, I'm OK to trade you my regular marquee for your swearing marquee... ::)
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I already know this is going to annoy me....I really like the low profile of the Q*bert cab, but this also means that the light is shining directly in your eyes....OK we'll worry about that later.
hey, a new advantage of being short! ;D
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Now you know why slick is wearing sunglasses...
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mMmmmmmmm, I might actually like that trade..... ;D
Is it in good condition ?
Mine is of course the Phoenixarcade repro...foil still on it :)
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Really? Yes, it's in good condition but used of course.
If you're not in any hurry, I can bring it to eurocade and you decide there.
But we will probably see each other before that ;)
I'd rather avoid sending it by mail since we're not too far away.
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WHAT DA F>>>>,,,,,,,,.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Those were Arcadeshop repro's right ?
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Noooooo what happend?
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Well....it cracked !
Looks like I'm not the only one: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=222589
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That's a bummer man :(
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Argh!!! I'd be raving mad in your place.
Could that be a fabrication issue?
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Used the wife's hair dryer to fold over the edges.... but I felt like a little more heat would have been better......but it worked....
I have some doubt if it was wise to go with black paint on the panel.....seems to shine through a bit on the yellow parts.......but there's no way back now and its not a big thing....
Thats a bummer !
perhaps your feeling was right and you needed more heat ?
or maybe the heating up caused the internal structure of the material to change to more brittle ?
its a thick kind of material right ?
it sucks man, i feel your pain.. :'(
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my Crystal Castles repro also cracked. Was pretty pissed about it, too. It is not as bad as yours though. You just see and feel the crack.
I will take a closer look at Centipede, Joust and Gyruss. They all have new cpos.
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Man....the thing is I put SO much effort in that damn CP.....
Don't think the heating during bending was a problem....
But I do remember that I had the cab out in the sun for an hour or 4 last weekend.....I did remove the Marquee (bezel wasn't in there) but didn't give the CP a second of thought.....even so....just 4 hours....and it's barely spring here...
Worst thing is thinking that I might have to remove this SOB again.......grrrrrrr....
Let's focus on positive stuff:
This is my idea for setting up the monitor and supports:
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Now I _really_ would love to know how far up the CRT should be from the "floor"......if any Q*bert owner could measure that I'd be extremely thankful.....this size is extremely important as I plan on drilling holes in the supports and I only have one shot to get it right....
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Looking at the set up I fear this is not going to fit in the cab.....the metal supports and even the PCB area/plate are going to hit the PCB/backdoor I'm afraid.....
This means hacking the shit out of the monitor.....the PCB is going to have to under the CRT, not too much of a problem, can mount it on the board in the cab.
[Edit] Had a second look. I think I can remove the entire original frame and only keep the two parts that are directly mounted to the CRT. The new supports can be mounted to these, all the other metal is not necessary.
Not doing that now though....I need the distance as mentioned above first ;D
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André, I will try to take care of this today. Not sure if I will make it cause I will pick up some bw-TVs for me and Jochen ;)
If there's time left I will measure the distance of the tube from the supporting board :)
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:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Well....it cracked !
Looks like I'm not the only one: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=222589
Damm after so much work.... What material are these made of anyway plastic or paper? I never replaced a cpo so far. The only one I have is still the galaxian cpo which is at your place!!! And I will not pick it up until I can play Qbert :twisted: :twisted:
Good luck with the monitor setup, keep posting I really enjoy these resto threads.
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André, I have just been looking behind the glass on Dirk's Q*bert. The monitor sits all the way down on the wood. The tube itself is ~10mm from the wood while the mounting latches in the corners rest on the wood.....not a mm space between metal and wood.
I will upload a picture I have made so you see I wasn't drunk while looking ;)
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Love the CRT, nice and clean. Can't wait to see Q working.
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André, I have just been looking behind the glass on Dirk's Q*bert. The monitor sits all the way down on the wood. The tube itself is ~10mm from the wood while the mounting latches in the corners rest on the wood.....not a mm space between metal and wood.
I will upload a picture I have made so you see I wasn't drunk while looking ;)
Thanks !! So is that 10mm. From the lowest part of the CRT ?
I indeed already assumed the frame was flat to the wood....
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Here's the pic:
http://361610.test-my-website.de/_temp/20150423_193325.jpg
The 10mm are measured from the middle of the edge to the wood.
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Did I ever tell you I love you Thorsten ? Well I do ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks my friend :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Does this mean you'll have the Qbert up and running this weekend Andre?
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Well I have a very busy weekend up ahead so I'm really not too sure.
I also am playing with the idea of asking someone to weld the metal supports instead of drilling holes and bolting......seems that might be more stable and saves from having to drill the holes.....
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It's só bright....
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Apparently I had forgotten to post the front pic of my monitor set up idea....
Judging by your picture Thorsten, the tube's mounting corners are touching or only just not touching the wood panel...and anyway , I now know the correct distance....
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Love the CRT, nice and clean. Can't wait to see Q working.
Yep I love NIB/NOS CRT monitors too......the clean and new look is simply awesome :)
Can't be that much longer to get it running at least. Still need the shroud and leaf button holders.
Oh and of course my ever favorite (not) part of any resto: the coin door.....but this time I'm in luck.....it only needs some new paint........and......OK it would be cool to be able to add the Gottlieb logo plate but I know it's not easy (=expensive) to get and also.....not all Q*berts had them originally.
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OK let's convert that Horizontal monitor into a vertical one !
First of all I have to remove the 4 bolts to remove the metal plate that carries the PCB. I decided to keep the PCB mounted on the metal plate, it's easy to screw that down to the wood.
Next I unbolted and removed the two metal bars of the frame.
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Of course I had to cut away some ty-raps and unknot some wires to be able to move the PCB to the "vertical position".
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At first I thought the wiring for the degauss coil would not be long enough but then I had a look at the pictures of my test set-up and this showed I had the wrong CRT orientation in mind. So now it was just fine when I turned the supports around :)
I positioned the supports with "eahother" in that I used one flat side to adjust the support so that it would be exactly flush with the lowest part of the metal supports already on the monitor (the "ears" of the CRT).
I marked the hole positions on the supports with a sharpie. The one on the top (the most right one on the 2nd pic) was unusable as the diagonal support is welded on that very spot.
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Then I drilled holes, first tiny one's with the Dremel, then big one's (in two steps) with the big drill.
Mounted the supports on both sides with carriage bolts and extra rings....very tightly and presto, we have a vertical monitor ! :D
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Now I have two issues before installing it into the cab:
1) How am I going to do that on my own without breaking the neck ?
2) How much distance do I need to keep from the artwork bezel ? I guess I can only truly correctly position it once I got the monitor shroud...yugh....
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Don't do it alone then. I can give you a hand tomorrow if needed
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Would be awesome but I have a full schedule tomorrow and King's day.... :S
I just stubbornly tried to see if it would fit and it doesn't ....well it does but the short ends of the triangle supports are a bit too long....they can rest (thank god) on a horizontal lath by gravity but since they are a bit too long the CRT actually touches the artwork bezel which is not how it's supposed to be I'm sure.
If I can kindly beg my good friend Thorsten to do one final measurement for me......I really need the distance of the CRT's "top" (the center top of the "bulb" so to speak) to the artwork bezel center.
Edit: never mind that....I just realized it's physically impossible to measure that distance...need to find something else as reference....
If I position it too close to the artwork bezel I can't install the shroud later on. If it's too far away, it will look crappy. And I can't drill holes endlessly in the wood, in fact, it would probably be only small differences...
I think I'll just order the bezel I think will fit and use that, that's the only way to be 100% sure.....gonna take some time to arrive I'm afraid though...
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ah dammit....forgot the leafswitch holders :(
I wrote myself a note...I'm getting older ya know ;)
as for the distance between the tube and the bezel....I think it can be measured but it needs more than one man to do it. One has to hold something as bezel replacement and the other one measures....will talk to Dirk about that :)
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No worries my friend, I know the feeling :):)
Hold your horses with your measuring my friend, the bezel I'll be getting may well be different from the original and make the measurement unusable. I really only have one shot at this since if the holes are slightly incorrect I'm screwed.....there's a lot of weight on those four holes when the monitor is mounted and I can't "move" the holes ;)
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Yeah, found someone who can do sandblasting for me so this is now at his place.... :)
There was more rust then expected and the paint was getting loose at several spots. It also looks like they did some "re-painting" at some point....without proper sanding of course.
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WOW...this picture helped me even more than I thought:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9992;image)
The angle meter also has a cm. scale on the bottom, from this I now know the exact position where the support of the CRT needs to be, 7.7 cm.
Of course, there is still a possibility that the bezel may be a bit higher or lower, but I can't imagine it can be much difference....I'm going to take the chance.
I'm ordering the cheap bezels, I'll be ordering 3, since shipping costs are so high anyway if I buy one it makes sense to have 1 or 2 spares.
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Meanwhile, somewhere in the arcade capital of Europe....
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Instead of cutting off a little end of the metal supports I decided to make some room in the wooden support instead, this was easier.
Fixed the supports with all six holes just to be 200% sure and I can barely believe how firm it is.....I had some worries the CRT and "frame" might jiggle a bit but I can totally try to shake it with both hands and it's not moving at all....
Also to my relief the CRT and neckboard fit without touching the PCB on the backdoor.
I must say I'm pretty proud that this idea worked out so well ;D
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Nice Job !
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Thanks buddy !
Of course I wanted to play a game....turned out one direction is not working....gotta find out why.
Also....The PSU is pumping out 5.20V at the connector but when I measure on the PCB already on about the first chips I only have 4.92V.......that's a pretty big loss and since I replaced the connector on the PSU already my bet is that the edge connector is the cause.....already have a replacement connectors so gonna fix that too.
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Looks good Andre. Almost there :spaceace:
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Connector replaced....result is amazing....I now have 5.10V at the first chips on the board while I turned back the 5V pot a bit on the PSU and there's 5.18V on the outgoing connector there now.
So, I went from a 0.28V loss to 0.08V, doesn't sound like a lot, but it actually is a big difference. makes life a little bit easier for the PSU and the board is getting voltages which makes it a bit happier :)
There is also less heat being developed between the edge connector and PCB :)
I think I preached this before, but guys, replace those edge connectors !
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Found the problem that one direction wasn't working, turns out I had mixed up the P2 connector and that direction connector on the joystick, duh :)
Sooooooo, I played my first games of Q*bert on the machine !
I must say I'm not too happy with the joystick. The new rubber feels way too stiff to me.....maybe people who like to work-out while they play games. May like it but I don't....now I do hope I didn't toss the original one as that was more flexible.....
Another thing: Q*bert's voice sounds like a vinyl record on the wrong (too slow) speed....already tried adjusting pot R6 but it doesn't seem to have any effect at all.....
all other sounds are fine....
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Fixed the slow voice.....it was R6 after all.....it's a 10 turn pot and needed quite a couple of turns to get the voice sound like Q*bert :)
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Nice !
Now only a new CPO.. ;)
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Nice work André, and I'm very pleased that you share all the technical details. :) Makes life much easier for techno dumbies like me. For instance the 'trick' to convert the trafo input to 220V is very neat.
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Thanks, but all credit for the 230V solution goed to ajhippel !! :)
This night I spent about 3 hours for two things:
- get the sound just like I want it
- get the knocker sound just like I want it
There are 4 pots on the soundboard:
R6 = clock frequency of the voice. This controls the pitch (tone) of the speech
R13 = controls the input level from the DAC to the amp (game sounds only)
R15 = volume adjust of game sounds
R16 = volume adjust of voice
Now this took a bit of fiddling. Already had done the pitch (R6) but I thought the voice volume was too low compared to the game sounds. So I upped R16. That improved it. However there was some balancing needed with the input pot (R13) and R15 and of course the main volume pot on the test panel. If you don't set this correctly, the game sounds may end up sounding distorted.
Next was the knocker: I wasn't happy with the sound. It was to much a sharp, high pitched "tack" sound. Of course I remembered that the developpers had intended some foam to be installed at the knocker so that the should would be less sharp and more of a "thud" instead.
So I got out some soft (furniture) foam and some plastic kind of stuff and experimented.
One thing that annoys me is the sound that happens when the plunger is release back to it's rest position. Of course there is a small rubber "catch" there but you still hear it. Wanted to silence that as much as possible.
I settled for the plastic kind of stuff for that part.
The actual spot where the knocker hits the metal I chose for the soft furniture foam though. After all, curly and Q*bert are soft living beings that drop down in the cab, not some metal :)
Sounds WAY better and I think this is what the designers had imagined it to be.
Glued both to the knocker. It looks weird but I think it'll work great.
One of the disadvantages of using this foam is that the starting postion of the plunger is quite a bit higher than normally so the power of the hit is less but that's not a real problem IMHO.
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Installed the knocker back and I'm really happy with the result !
Also got a package from Germany today, vielen dank Thorsten !!!
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You're welcome....better than rotting in my drawer :)
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, look what daddy scored !!!!
.....and the best thing.....not from the U.S. or anywhere abroad, but right here in the Arcade Capital of Europe !!!!!
And it was generously donated to the project ! ( ok , I traded my Ms.Pac plexi in the end for it :):) )
Oh and Robin.....please read my threads a bit more, I had almost ordered these for crazy shipping money from the States ;););)
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So what are you waiting for show us the crowning of the grail ;D
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Heh....it doesn't fit....there is a raised edge that is not there on the original shroud, so I am going to have to cut some of the plastic on top and bottom....but didn't want to rush that, don't what a crack to ruin it...
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OK....well....I figured I might be able to actually trim this with a pair of scissors....and it works great !
I had to get off the top and bottom parts right under and over the raised edge. That way I could get it to be resting on the CRT AND fixed between the wood.
Popped the bezel over it and......IT"S PERFECT !!!!!!!!
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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU Robin, this saved me a LOT of money for shipping !!!!
Damn I love the people on this forum and the arcade community....helping each other where we can.....love it !!!!
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
Now all I need is the coin door back from the sandblaster...no news on that yet.
Oh, and Muddymusic on UKvac is taking care of a new CPO. Inkjet yes, I don't give a @!#?@! as long as it looks good and will NOT CRACK ! ;D
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Very nice Andre
I have a paperboy cpo from olly that looks very nice. So keep kalm and play qbert
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Great to hear !
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OK.....so my Q*bert works but there is this "super-cap" installed to replace the back-up batteries on my PCB.
However, a "super-cap" doesn't keep the power for as long as I want (without powering up the machine every day).
The most common used solution is to use some Dallas battery backed SRAM modules like this:
http://www.jrok.com/sohs/qb-upg.html
However, these modules have some disadvantages:
- They're insanely expensive at about 16 dollars....that makes 32 just for the units, without shipping...
- relatively hard to find
- when you're going to have to replace them.......your hi-scores are gone....OK it won't be until (over) 10 years....but it's the idea ;)
These modules are not much more than an SRAM (those are already on the board) and a lithium cell in one case.
My preferred method is to install a CR2032 holder and battery. Done that successfully on my Berzerk f.i.
The one thing you need to take care of is that there is no charging going on anymore.
Here's the battery circuit of Q*bert:
It works like this: When the power is off the battery supplies 3.6V through diode D3, bypassing R40.
When power is on, the +5V is parallel to the battery voltage and charges it through R40.
D2 stops the battery voltage from being fed-back towards the other +5V powered chips (about the entire board ;))
C27 is there to straighten any fluctuations I suppose.
Now...if I replace B1 with a non-chargeable battery I have to make sure it won't be charged anymore. In this cas, I can simple remove R40.
This way the +5V will be still going through D2 but will be stopped by D3 when power is on.
When power is off, the battery will still provide it's voltage through D3 and D2 stops it being fed-back to the rest of the +5V power chips.
Normally I'd have to use Schottky diodes to minimize the energy loss across the diode when the battery is supplying power. However, I checked the datasheet of the 1N4454 diode ( https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/1N/1N4454.pdf ) and it specs it as a "high conductance" diode but doesn't say "Schottky" anywhere.
I guess I'll just replace D3 with a 1N5817 anyway...that way I'm sure of things (works on Berzerk board nicely too :)). It's not like that diode will break the bank (not even mine ;))
Costs:
- CR2032 battery: €0,45
- holder: €0,56
- 1N5817 €0,061
Total: about 1 Euro ;D ;D ;D
So this solution has the following advantages:
- a LOT cheaper
- possible to replace battery without loosing hi-scores (cab must be powered on during replacement!)
Disadvantage: a little bit harder to install the socket, may require drilling a hole, haven't looked into it yet.
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Technical question, why is there a resistor on top of the big blue, connecting the two poles?
On my big blue the resistor is only connected to one pole (it probably broke off the other pole) and the game is still behaving normal.
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Try to reconnect it or install a new one. I think it's there to "carefully" get rid of the energy still in the "Big Blue" after you turn it off.
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Good....in return, can you check your coin counter for me please ?
I need to know its specced voltage and type number would be nice. Also, if possible, have a look which wire goes to the plus and which to the minus, both wires from the counter itself will probably be black, but there are two holes in the bracket so one is on top and the other on the bottom. I have no idea if polarity is important with coin counters though.
I tried to unscrew my coin counter to check the specs, unfortunately one screw is 'dol' and won't get loose. Anyway, i hope this picture will help, the red wire goes to the top hole, the black wire through the bottom hole. I measured only 0.18 VDC on the pins of the connector though, can't be right.
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/QBert/coin%20counter%20wiring_zps1sq0q6ik.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/QBert/coin%20counter%20wiring_zps1sq0q6ik.jpg.html)
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Thanks, that answers half my question ;D
Ha, I guessed right to connect the red one to the top wire. It may very well not matter though.
It's perfectly normal that there is no voltage on the wires. There will only be a (short) voltage peak on it when the counter needs to do a "tic", in other words, if you credit the machine (throw in a quarter, or manually move the micro-switch) the PCB will send a short voltage to the counter to move it one position.
So....can you answer the other half of my question ? Have a look at the counter itself....should be some yellow text and logo on it. Picture would be great :)
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Here you go:
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/QBert/Qbert%20coin%20counter_zpscieoxvsi.jpg) (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/QBert/Qbert%20coin%20counter_zpscieoxvsi.jpg.html)
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Thanks !!!!
Well that confirms that I have the wrong kind....it's 6V or so....
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Then you better get two of them, if you need 12V! :D
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In wire them in series....LOL ! :) Might even work. Or I could put a voltage regulator in front of it to lower it....
Anyway, I have my machine on free-play, it's not going to add came to the counter, but I'd still like to make it possible....
Anyway.....back on the battery mod !
Let's see what's on my PCB right now ?
1) Hah, that's not the original battery (thankfully) but a Super-cap of 1F. That's right, not 1uF (or micro F) but F....that's a lot....really a lot.
So it's a "regular" cap like any else, only with a crazy capacity. So much that it is almost like a rechargeable battery.
However, it doesn't keep energy for as long as I'd like...well .....I think it doesn't because I've had my hi-score table reset a couple of times.
2) Let's have a look at D2, D3 and R40 situation. Mmmm, D3 is gone, but R40 still there. Kinda weird cause this causes the cap to always discharge through the resistor which only wastes energy....D3 is (IMHO) meant to bypass the (charging) resistor R40 when the battery is delivering energy (cab powered off).
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1) I also notice something I really do not like: Battery-leak damage ! (Not acid....batteries have a base material inside...the effect is the same...stuff get's eaten.......)
I measured from the + connection to the left side of the resistor and amazingly the contact seems still fine....
2) General look after removing the super-cap.....meeeeehhhhh....it's funny how the PCB was really Greeen once, but now is more brownish....gonna need Retro-bright ;)
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1) So let's give it some nice acid (white vinegar) bath....I see very little (if anything) going on, previous battery-leak damgage usually generates some nice reaction in the form of bubbles but not this time...
2) So cleaned that off and soldered in the new battery holder. It's a 20 mm. holder for CR-2032 batteries. Gottlieb designers were kind enough to provide some extra holes for the battery and between two it almost fits perfectly, with a tiny but of bending the legs.
While I'm at it, I also remove R40 and install a fresh D3, namely a Schottky diode 1N5817.
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1) Yes this fits very very nice.
2) OK....so I measured everything to make there are correct contact and no weird shorts.....and insert a fresh battery.
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Before we go on: I had to make one bridging wire jumper to connect the battery to the PCB's minus, but I forgot to take a pic......
So.... let's check work....yes we have a nice battery supply on the "outer" PINs of the SRAMs at position 0 and 1 !
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Now let's apply power ! I checked the +5V, that it was not going in direction of the battery, and also the GND connection. Looked good, so let's power up.....and play some games to get some scores in the table....
And it works GREAT !!!! No Hi score loss so far at all, and I've tried powering up and down couple of times and not at the "most ideal" moments....
The result is the same hi-scores still being there.....
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Sweet ! nice job.
I don't know why, buy i like this pic :D
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=10689;image)
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Me too.....but I would have loved to see some blue bubbling stuff too :):)
It does show that this super cap mod has been done quite some time ago as the yellowing of the board has been stopped by the super cap, you see the circle clearly. It's as if the board has been laying in the sun for some years.
The super cap mod is fine for an arcade environment where games are probably only shut down for the night. It will easily survive a week or so....when I removed it it still had 3,5V or so on it. However, It can happen that I have my games powered down for weeks......sometimes months.....although this sure hasn't happened with Q*bert, man I love this game !
The SRAMs used on Q*bert need at least 2V to keep the memory so this lithium cell I used wil last for at least ten years. We have the same kind of batteries in the fire control panels at work and regretfully I didn't have any "supplies I could borrow" because although we started installing those systems about 10 years ago, none of those cells show lower voltages than 3V, at least the old one's that I've seen.
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Why did you remove r40? Is that because d3 was also gone?
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https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2937.msg93148#msg93148
;D ;D ;D
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Mmmm, maybe I didn't actually explain what R40's function is there....well my guess is that it either drops the voltage a bit when the original battery was being charged by the +5v when the cab was powered on.
That or it limited the charging current. Or both. Anyway, you don't want to have R40 when it is Discharging, not even when the original battery was there and this is why they included D3, this forms a "short cut" for the current when it's discharging (power off).
So...there's no need for it anymore since there's no charging going on anymore, in fact, if I would have left it there there would be charging going on, which is going to make the lithium cell go boom. Don't want that :)
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So.....where are we with Q*bee ?
Well....it's finished. Apart from two things really:
- the coin door, should be back from the sand blaster before the end of the month....I said there was no rush....of course I meant I wanted it yesterday, but you can't "push" a favor, right ? ;)
- the missing marquee bracket
But I did all the other little things that still needed to be done. The ground straps, some wire guiding with ty-raps etc.
Here's the results:
1) Coin door area. I installed the coin counter for now, also mounted the remote pot-board...I love these. Yes not original but they're REALLY useful.
I "fixed" the Street Fighter marking in a very smart and quick way: I turned the bucket around. Done :)
2) The backside. As neat as it gets.
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1) Lower area
2) There's a "damage" in my marquee. A thin stripe. Not sure what it is/how it got there, it looks like a production failure. This (and the cracking CPO) are the "bliss" of storing art for too long....but I'll live with it...
I am very eagerly awaiting the CPO from the UK.
Also on the way from the UK should be a little PCB to improve the sync of the Q*bert board. The issue I have now is that when the cab is cold, there are tears over the screen. I can adjust it out, but then the picture is not perfectly aligned. Q*bert's sync signals are far from standard and this little PCB should fix it.
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and then........the marquee holder.
I was especially sick of it that it was missing because my good friend Thorsten had especially repro-ed it for me !!
But I _KNEW_ it had to be in the gameroom somewhere.
And this evening I decided to play a few games. Of course first Q*bert and then I went to play some Robotron.
I still hadn't noticed anything and I was playing the game, I got pretty far for my standards and got to play a little exited and felt something mentally touching my hand while I moved the sticks pretty wild.....it was the freaking marquee retainer !!!!
I had put it on the Joust/Robotron CP, upside down and shifted all the way back. This way, it was almost invisible !!!
Yippie !!!!! :D
So THIS will be fixed soon !!!
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Oops....forgot one picture :)
The lovely reproduced retainer :)
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LOL, when I read that the marquee retainer was missing I wasn't sure if I had done one for you or if that was something I had promised but never did :oops:
Glad you found and I really hope it fits ::)
And yes, some arcade parts seem to have some serious camouflage ability and use to hide from our eyes, while still being in front of us ;)
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Haha, well to be honest that very same thought crossed my mind !!!! Following that I checked some PMs and it got clear enough that you did do it and deep in my mind I just knew it too :)
BIG thanks for that again because it's simply unavailable anywhere else :)
Oh yes it fits perfectly, I already had it on the cab before I started the restauration :)
Hah, man it looked as if it belonged there, it's almost the perfect length and it lay such that it looked like just an edge between the control panel and bezel.....not that crazy that I missed it :)
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If you are tired of working on your game, then you can lie down on the couch and read something: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/qbert/qbert.htm
Especially the links to some old magazine articles at the bottom of page 1 about Q*bert are fun/interesting to read. And there is some great artwork in those articles.
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Read up a lot about those magazine articles, awesome stuff, thanks buddy !
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Also on the way from the UK should be a little PCB to improve the sync of the Q*bert board. The issue I have now is that when the cab is cold, there are tears over the screen. I can adjust it out, but then the picture is not perfectly aligned. Q*bert's sync signals are far from standard and this little PCB should fix it.
I'm curious about this pcb, do you have some more info about it?
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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/arcade-sync-cleaner-pcb-kits-sold-out_topic342785.html?KW=sync+pcb
Original idea here:
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic340877.html
The truth is: I can either adjust my monitor to have a pefect alligned picture and have sync problems while it's still not warmed up (the monitor) OR I can have no sync problems but the screen is down too low....not acceptable either way and since I read in these articles that Q*bert produces a bad sync signal which new(er) monitors don't like I figured this thing might help.
Still need to get the parts though....
Just received a message that the coin-door is finally back from the sand-blaster, will pick it up tonight !!
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Thanks for the link, hope im not to late for a pcb!...
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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/arcade-sync-cleaner-pcb-kits-sold-out_topic342785.html?KW=sync+pcb
Original idea here:
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic340877.html
It seems that the boards are out of stock, but on the other hand it shouldn't be too difficult (and good practice) to make it myself. Could you post good pictures of your bare board, front and back, so I have an idea about difficulty rate?
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I actually thought about doing a veroboard version myself but.....knew I was too lazy (well wanted to spend the time for other stuff is a better explanation I guess ;))
Will dig it up today and make pics. The schematics should be enough to make a veroboard version though.
Note that one resistor value is printed wrong on the PCB, check the UKVac threads for then one...it was something with 68...
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I actually thought about doing a veroboard version myself but.....knew I was too lazy (well wanted to spend the time for other stuff is a better explanation I guess ;))
Will dig it up today and make pics. The schematics should be enough to make a veroboard version though.
Note that one resistor value is printed wrong on the PCB, check the UKVac threads for then one...it was something with 68...
Thanks. Yes, I read about the resistor value being wrong.
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Did you guys hear about the new James Bond movie coming up ? They changed the title:
The man with the golden gun coindoor :D
Seriously.....can't wait to paint it black.....
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Etienne question: I have a B/W and colored serial tag in the set your sent me.....do we know which one I should use ? I think I forgot ! :)
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the black only is Original. (screened in the past)
i found the logo on vectorlib which had color, so i just thought i print them both and you can choose which one is cooler ;)
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OK !! I'm pretty sure you'll know which one I'll choose ;);) :D
As always fantastic work on this man....already the way everything is carefully wrapped individually and stacked together with cello tape....that alone is a lot of time and care !
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Coindoor ready...
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Front:
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OK !! I'm pretty sure you'll know which one I'll choose ;);) :D
As always fantastic work on this man....already the way everything is carefully wrapped individually and stacked together with cello tape....that alone is a lot of time and care !
Yep, thats something i started last run, i found these "wenskaart opberghoesjes" at the local Action (which means very cheap), and thought to give it a try, as i have noticed in the past that the edges tend to stick the decals together and leave glue residue on the decals.
(http://static.voordeelmuis.nl/img/jpg/1462/1462157.jpg)
also its easier to stick the tape to it to keep them in the middle of the protecting cardboard in the enveloppe.
that is essential, as the edges of the enveloppe takes the most abuse during shipping.
before i used plain paper and sticked them to that.
this is less weight so that results in some cases in lower postal costs.
now that they are sleeved individual there is no actual contact between the tape and the cardboard.
also to remove them from the sleeves is easy, as you can simply cut the sleeve (with exacto or Stanley knive)and slide the decal out, and you don't have to peel of the tape from the back (which i did in the past to keep them in the middle of the enveloppe) and minimize the risk of damage.
Anyway, enough about the decals, coindoor looks great ! :spaceace:
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(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/6/9/6/8/9/a3184953-186-mad-man-pulling-hair-out.jpg?d=1271337978])
That feeling that you get when the very very last thing you need to do on a cab is install the coin door and you discover that 1 (one, not two) of the damn coin-reject button lamps is dead....and you don't have a spare.....
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OK well, apart from installing 1 555 lamp in the coin door and installing the little sync board I decided to call this project
FINISHED
This was the poor sad Q*bert shell as I received it as an AMAZING gift in the year 2010 during Eurocade:
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/meeting/eurocade_2011/Eurocade_123.jpg)
And after some years waiting, collecting parts and finally starting the restoration process here it is. I'm happy. I'm proud. I think this is probably one of my better restorations to date :) Love it !!
I have to thank a lot of great people on this forum who have somehow contributed to this project!
- Capt.Kirk....how can I ever thank you enough for giving me the shell !!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
- DarthNuno: for the awesome control panel deal !!! :spaceace:
- Luigi: making the marquee retainer and donating the button holders !! :spaceace:
- RobinHolland: for fixing the main PCB AND the CRT bezel !! :spaceace:
- SuperUlly: for arranging the group buy of artwork !! :spaceace:
- Riptor (KLOV form /Twistywristarcade) for parts and help !! :spaceace:
- Etienne: for the repro serial tags etc. etc !! :spaceace:
- Jochen: for the 120VAC to 230VAC mod idea ! :spaceace:
- Some guys from the KLOV forum in the U.S. for getting me some great deals on parts like the boards and original Suzo joystick !!! :spaceace:
- and everyone here for general support, help and encouragement ! :spaceace:
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Love those details...before ....and after :)
(https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2937.0;attach=9089;image)
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There was a dry spell today (WOW !) here so I quickly brought Q*bert out to take some pics:
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...
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...
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...
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Isn't it amazing how each and every board had the correct serial number while they came from all over the place ;) ;) ;) ;)
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And one last total shot.....love it, love the game, love the sounds and I loved doing the project. Learned a lot from it and did it in a pretty short time of 7 months ! :)
>>> NOW COME AND PLAY IT AT EUROCADE 2015 !!!!! <<<
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Congratulations André : it looks really nice.
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Very, very nice. :spaceace:
I do like the look of the matt black vinyl on the frontpanel, I want to try it also for some of my games, although I have formica black role in storage. The vinyl seems to do the job very well though.
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although you had a setback with the CPO, it turned out really great !
cool that all your boards have matching serials ;D
you have overcome ! :spaceace: :spaceace:
(http://img.youtube.com/vi/_DUfWnBL1nw/0.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DUfWnBL1nw)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/player.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DUfWnBL1nw)
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Fokking nice
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Extremely nice and beautiful result! Wow :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Congratulation. Now playing it will be the only matter... you deserve it :)
:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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a WORK OF LOVE AND ART!
:spaceace:
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Great work André,
can't wait to play it at EC15 (and put a descent highscore on the screen :))
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Amazing, cant wait to put on my fingers on it at EC15. ;)
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Loved following this project. Well done André
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Thanks for documenting all this, man, what a ride!
I've already seen the restored cab and all I can say is that it was totally worth it, G_R_E_A_T job !!!
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Thanks for all the nice comments guys !!
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Hi, Congratulations for such a great job and also many thanks to sharing it with us, in fact your pictures and comments will help me a lot because since some time ago I was collecting Q*bert parts, because I pretend to make me a cabinet from scratch, (I think I can't afford bring one from usa to Spain) and your pictures shows some areas that I didn't see before pictured, so thanks again.
Ricky
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Thanks Ricky, glad those pics help, I really needed pics especially for the monitor position too because I had to figure out my own way of mounting it, so it was awesome that people help in that way too, however small it may seem it really means the difference between guessing and knowing :)
Good luck on your project !!!
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A true masterpiece of arcade restoration. :)
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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/arcade-sync-cleaner-pcb-kits-sold-out_topic342785.html?KW=sync+pcb
Original idea here:
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic340877.html
It seems that the boards are out of stock, but on the other hand it shouldn't be too difficult (and good practice) to make it myself. Could you post good pictures of your bare board, front and back, so I have an idea about difficulty rate?
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thanks.
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Erik, (and everybody else) forget about this board.
This turns out to be a huge WTF moment.
So, I buy this board (guy says he sells non-profit, I believe that, price was low enough). The board was based on a design shown on this website:
http://martin-jones.com/2014/09/16/that-syncing-feeling-classic-arcade-games-that-wont-stay-still/
Am I crazy or does this show the thing to work with Q*bert or not ? It shows before and after pics and scope signals.
And now I've build it up the first problem was already that the board was designed for composite sync.
Weird because Q*bert puts out separate H- and V-Sync. OK...so I either have to cut up a track (on a brand new board) or lift out 1 pin of 1 IC. Since the board is already fully populated, I can't cut the track anymore, so I decide to lift the pin and solder the wire directly to it. This looks amateurish and I hate that in my Q*bert which looks pretty damn perfect...but OK, as long as it works...
Now I connected everything, power the machine up, and the screen is total garbage. I post scope screen dumps and NOW they are saying that the circuit "relies on negative sync while Q*bert puts out positive......" and this requires extra inverter ICs and more modding of the board....
OK.....yes.....at those moments I go: WHAT THE FUCK !?!?!?
In the end I would have been better of building something on veroboard.
I know this is all non-profit and done for the hobby but.....something went seriously wrong here. I don't mind the invested money so much, but I put quite a bit of time in it and all turns out wasted......
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic340877_post911232.html#911232
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Thanks for your findings (I already spotted something being wrong with the board on UKVAC), I will leave the board for now. Besides, I have Phoenix, Pleiads ánd Q*Bert all running with a solid screen. Guess I don't need the board that much.
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Wow! Very nice job, L42! Really looking forward to screaming @!#?@! at it at Eurocade!
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Thanks Arch !
Yeah I was pretty frustrated yesterday, put in a lot of time and installing (and having to mod) the PCB inside the cab was very tedious...wasn't too happy that it didn't work but finding out that it would not work as is was what my mind couldn't grasp....
There's a solution though but needs more hacking.....or an entirely new PCB.
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Played Q*bert with my 5 years old yesterday and of course, he made his Q*bert fall out of the grid.
When the knockers knocked, my kid naturally said: "Q*bert fell at the bottom of your cab" and he started looking down.
BUT OF COURSE!
That sound is clearly supposed to emulate the sound of the little characters falling from the grid all the way down and hitting the bottom of your cabinet.
I bet if you open the backdoor right after a game, you can see a few Coilys and Q*bert knocked down lying next to the power supply.
After all these years I finally got it :)
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Very beautiful made, a beautiful machine beautifully restored. 1A
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Played Q*bert with my 5 years old yesterday and of course, he made his Q*bert fall out of the grid.
When the knockers knocked, my kid naturally said: "Q*bert fell at the bottom of your cab" and he started looking down.
BUT OF COURSE!
That sound is clearly supposed to emulate the sound of the little characters falling from the grid all the way down and hitting the bottom of your cabinet.
I bet if you open the backdoor right after a game, you can see a few Coilys and Q*bert knocked down lying next to the power supply.
After all these years I finally got it :)
WHAAAAAAAAAT you're kidding right, you didn't know that ? ;D ;D ;D
From Wikipedia:
Following a suggestion from technician Rick Tighe, a pinball machine component was included to make a loud sound when a character falls off the pyramid.[6][8] The sound is generated by an internal coil that hits the interior of a cabinet wall. Foam padding was added to the area of contact on the cabinet; the developers felt the softer sound better matched a fall rather than a loud knocking sound. The cost of installing foam, however, was too expensive and the padding was omitted.
I tried to recreate the original intended sound a bit by putting some foam on the knocker....
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Very beautiful made, a beautiful machine beautifully restored. 1A
Thanks !!!!
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I juist went through most of this thread.....kinda weird to read it all now....
But since so many people here contributed in some or other way to this cab, I think it's only fair I bring it to Eurocade 2016 :)
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I juist went through most of this thread.....kinda weird to read it all now....
But since so many people here contributed in some or other way to this cab, I think it's only fair I bring it to Eurocade 2016 :)
Nice, it was one of my favorite games last year :)
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:spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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YES!!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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I am a really happy guy today. :)
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Let me guess that you changed title from Q*bert-wanter to Q*bert-Owner?
In that case, congratulations, I would love a Q*bert, love the cabinet, cant really say that I like the game that much though :lol:
Have never seen or played one IRL.
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Let me guess that you changed title from Q*bert-wanter to Q*bert-Owner?
Oh.. yeah.. good that you reminded me about that. I guess I have to change my profile. :D
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I am a really happy guy today. :)
Me too, good that this game stays within the community, love laying it on Eurocade ;D